Definition of "Drinking" - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

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Definition of "Drinking"
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Posted by: matt235

Can anyone define the levels of drinking in the FSU?

My reason for this question is that I have heard and just saw in a picture on one of the sites that confuses me regarding when a lady says that she doesn't drink. I have heard that when someone in the FSU says that they do not drink, that it means that the do not drink regularly and there is no such thing as Never in reference to drinking within the FSU.

Confusing at best. When I tell someone that I am a social drinker that means that if I am out with friends, I might have a beer or a glass of wine. This happens maybe 2 or 3 times a month. I have friends that say they never drink and they mean NEVER. In fact, they may have never even tasted alcohol.

If what I am asking seems to be true about FSU, then I'm not sure I want to meet somone that considers themself a "Heavy Drinker"!

As always, thanks!

Posted by: Stirlitz

It’s a difficult question. I consider myself ‘never drink’. Yet I basically mean vodka or other strong drinks like that, and I don’t drink beer. But once or twice a year I can drink some good wine (and, it has to be really good!!), some liqueur. Mainly socially.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt235

Can anyone define the levels of drinking in the FSU?

My reason for this question is that I have heard and just saw in a picture on one of the sites that confuses me regarding when a lady says that she doesn't drink. I have heard that when someone in the FSU says that they do not drink, that it means that the do not drink regularly and there is no such thing as Never in reference to drinking within the FSU.

Confusing at best. When I tell someone that I am a social drinker that means that if I am out with friends, I might have a beer or a glass of wine. This happens maybe 2 or 3 times a month. I have friends that say they never drink and they mean NEVER. In fact, they may have never even tasted alcohol.

If what I am asking seems to be true about FSU, then I'm not sure I want to meet somone that considers themself a "Heavy Drinker"!

As always, thanks!

The big thing - contained in Stirlitz'a own response is the "social drinker" that you yourself write about. Most of the women who write "I don't drink" will drink toasts - especially of vodka - in a social setting or for a celebration - or for medical reasons. However, drinking alone has a big social stigma attached to it and is viewed as an indicator of alcoholism. Of course there will be some who don't drink at all but they will be very rare.

Posted by: Justjohn

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

i was also surprised when i first met people in Odessa, Mama says she does not drink, however she will have a glass of conyac if we take a bottle with us to her meal or when we toast our meeting or family, i laugh because she always tells me tchoot tchoot, when i pour, meaning only very very small, but she has many toasts and this does not count as drinking.
from Sveta's piont of view if when in the evening i ask her if she will have a drink of something, meaining alcohol, she will only drink if i drink, she will never drink alone, even if she would like a drink and i don't want one.

it is a very hard thing to understand and get your head around
John

Posted by: deccie

Think of drinking in this context as really being a social lubricant.

Drinking alone is viewed as being about the alcohol itself.

Posted by: matt235

OK, from an American perspective this is what I am gathering from the input. I split this up between countries (US and FSU only, sorry having enough trouble figuring out these two differences, don't need to throw in any other countries just yet!).

The US version of "Drink" is a verb (meaning the act of putting alcohol in your body)

No/Never--Alcohol does not ever enter the body.
Rarely--Alcohol only on special occasions like celebrations/toasts (1 or 2 per year)
Socially--Alcohol might be semi-regular at a happy hour with co-workers or while out dancing (weekends or just a few times a month), but probably not to the falling down drunk stage.
Often--Drinks anywhere/everywhere, with or without friends for the sake of the alcohol.

FSU version of "Drink" is more of an adjective (meaning "drinker")

No/Never--A person that does not rely on alcohol for physical/emotional reasons, but drinks for celebrations
Rarely--I'm not sure how to define this one.
Socially--Drink regularly (possibly daily) in a social environment, but never alone.
Often--Drinks anywhere/everywhere, with or without friends for the sake of the alcohol.

Now here is a problem. Due to the differences in the definitions between the two countries (regions), do the ladies understand this difference or are they appyling FSU logic to what a man might say in his "profile"? For instance, I say that I am a social drinker (someone that has a drink or two at a happy hour with friends maybe once or twice a month). Does a FSU lady see that as I am a person that drinks regularly (nightly) in a social environment (the FSU version of Social) or just on occasion (the US version of Social)?

I guess I am beginning to really see some cultural differences as my search continues...

Thanks again for all of you help and input,

Posted by: Stirlitz

I think you are basically right in your definitions. Let me explain more. For centuries, Russian people did not drink strong drinks. It was only under Peter the ‘Great’ when vodka was widely introduced. In a way, it reminds me Red Indians and the fire-water as they referred to whiskey. Russians became addicted to vodka. There are also many social historic reasons. As a result (not to lecture on the Russian history for many pages), drinking can be very bad. What is referred to by the term ‘drinking’ here is better described as hard drinking if not dipsomania for Western people. So, if someone states they do not drink at all (me, for example), it means that they do drink occasionally but never get drunk.

As for your concerns, I think you do not have to worry. Many people are aware of the cultural differences and know that a social drinker in the West is quite different from that back here

At least, you can always elaborate.

To add a detail to Russian drinking habits, there is something I abhor. When there is a party or feast (by the way, here a party mainly means eating and drinking a lot), many people have the disgusting habit of urging each other to drink more. Sometimes you have to be very adamant and even rude to refuse to drink. For some idiotic reason many people think it impolite if you refuse to drink together with them and do their best to make you drink whatever you say. It does not take once to say you do not drink. Some people succumb to it. Various sayings can be heard ranging from ‘DA MAN MUST DRINK’ to ‘if someone does not drink he is either sick or real scumbag’. Well, to sum up, Russian people define drinking as getting drunk and that’s it.

Posted by: matt235

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stirlitz

Well, to sum up, Russian people define drinking as getting drunk and that’s it.

This explains it a lot more and makes sense. I'm glad to know the ladies understand/accept the differences in definitions between the two areas.

Thanks again.

Posted by: Stirlitz

This I cannot guarantee though

Posted by: Raspberry

Some of the women say in their profiles that they drink "on holidays only".

And some agencies only give the ladies the choice of saying "yes" or "never".

Posted by: matt235

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raspberry

And some agencies only give the ladies the choice of saying "yes" or "never".

For some reason I grow more and more leary of agencies every day.

Thanks,

Posted by: Stirlitz

And you have only touched the tip of the iceberg at that.

There are things about agencies that even I try to conceal from my customers (unless they are directly affected) because they are too bad. I just don’t want them to lose faith in humans.

Posted by: matt235

This does seem to be a huge icerberg that not a ship one would want to take on. I am learning that I will have to use them to get some contact info, but beyond that I don't see a whole lot of use for them.

Do you know if anyone has ever tried to make the agencies compete with one another for their business? This may seem odd, but I tried it. I have yet to have any luck with it and considering my thoughts lately about agencies, I am not too upset. I realize that they are in business to make money, but they are not approaching it in the same manner that most businesses would.

-----------------------------------------------------------

OK, I have been wanting to write down my thoughts on this subject for a while so I guess I'll do this here. The rest of this post is my view and analysis of agencies. You may or may not agree with me on this (and you don't have to read it--it get's a little long), but I have had this boiling inside me for a couple of days now and figured it was time. Sorry, maybe it should be in the Agencies category, I don't know. Either way, here it comes!

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I would say that the US over the past 100 years has developed a certain business model that others try to copy with little success. The agencies could be classified as one with little success. Unfortunately, captialism is something that is engrained in Americans from birth and thus we come to expect a certain level or method of business interaction (i.e. customer service).

Agencies fall into 2 distinct categories--local agencies and big box agencies. The local agencies are the small offices that the ladies actually "sign up" with. The big box agencies are the ones that get the profiles from the local agencies and combine them into a huge database. Both types then try to sell the ladies information in order to make a profit. This is business and we all understand this. The problem is this.

The big box agencies are for the most part a bunch of con artists, or at best shrewd businessmen, that will milk money from a man as long as possible with no intention of ever allowing the man and woman to ever meet. They are providing a service (communications with another person) and receiving payment for this service. However, they mislead the consumer along the way. The consumer (the man) see the service as a means to an end--meeting and possible marriage. This service is legal per their terms and conditions, however, it is not expressed to the consumer upon use of the service. What ends up happening is that the men "talk to ladies" spending huge fortunes for translations, mail forwarding services, etc, by using the services of the agency. The direct contact information to the lady is never divulged because it would then remove the agency (middle man) from the equation and they (the agency) would no longer be able to make money from the "relationship".

The smaller local agencies I feel are somewhat better, however, they too are in business to make money. Their monies come from the sale of contact information directly to men, as well as, to the big box agencies. Additionally, they make monies from providing services while one is traveling to meet the ladies. This makes complete sense as, afterall they are there to make money. The problem with local agencies other than some inflated rates, is their lack of understanding their customer. This I feel is due to some significant cultural differences. As I mentioned earlier, captilism is part of the American DNA, even if the guys on this board have a little less than the average American (we are afterall a global brode for Pete's sake!). We have come to expect certain relationships with businesses that we deal with, but the local agencies do not know how to develop those relationships. I personally believe that this is where the agencies fall short. The first agency that ever figures out what this is supposed to be and how to handle it, will have the other agencies closing shop in short order.

One of the local agencies in Kiev tout that the owner is an American living in Kiev (I think we all know who I am talking about). His agency is in my opinion one of the better ones (personal belief and per Jim's List), however, I am beginning to think he has been removed from the American business scene for a bit too long now (recent correspondence). Still I would put his agency easily in the top 5 in Ukraine (and possibly all of the FSU).

I would say that the American men that use the various services of these agencies (big box and local) evolve over time if they are truly serious about their search for a wife from the FSU. Those men that are just "playing around" will probably never venture away from the big box agencies, thus feeding the agency's bottom line and keeping them in business. From that grouping of men, some serious one's start looking beyond the big box (they can see through the pretty facade or start asking serious questions) and find a few of the local agencies. Finally when a man becomes truly focused on the end result, he starts to ask real questions and expect real answers. It is this point where neither the big box nor local agencies can give the answers because it would expose them for what they are truly there for--to make money.

If a man is on this board and to the point of reading what I have just written, then he is more than likely on his way to discovering what agencies are all about and how to utilize them for what they are worth in his pursuit. The agencies must be there for this system to work, fore without them there is no system. And without a system, we would all be stuck with the girl nextdoor, but sadly, the girl nextdoor has become a self centered shell of what she was.