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mail-order marriage turns into horror story for man
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Posted by: ham

AS POSTED ELSEWHERE

The Russian bride scam

As Gary Oldenkamp tells the story of being caught in a scam to bring a Russian woman to this country, he reveals strong feelings of betrayal.“Not only was I taken advantage of by the woman I hoped to spend the rest of my life with, but local officials decided to take her side, even after I gave them proof of what was happening.”

Oldenkamp’s story of exploitation began innocently in 2002, when he decided to enroll in an online dating service.The Hull resident was 38 years-of-age at the time, divorced for one year and interested in dating again.He was contacted by a woman named Elana, who lived in Russia, was a year older than him, also divorced and she had a daughter.Elana worked as an English translator so language was not a barrier.

The two corresponded for six months by email and phone before Oldenkamp flew to Moscow to meet her.

“Initially, I wasn’t interested in meeting women from other counties,” said Oldenkamp.“But as the relationship progressed I began to think of all the advantages.There wouldn’t be an ex-husband around to deal with and no in-law problems.I thought it was a situation I could control.Plus, I believed that Russian women were soft, docile and calm.Boy was I wrong.”

According to the American University Trade and Environment database website, the majority of men who participate in services for Russian brides are white, educated, around 37 years old, and are ideologically conservative.These men are tired of ‘career-obsessed women’ and see Russian women as less materialistic and more appreciative of men.Russian women are seen as more feminine and more traditional.

Oldenkamp spent a week in Moscow in January 2003, and before he left, asked Elana to marry him.

“She told me everything I wanted to hear.She was very charming, soft and pretty,” he said.“Spending time with her was fun, much better than the usual dating.She was everything I was looking for.And her daughter was very quiet and respectful.Looking back, she told me everything I wanted to hear.”

Oldenkamp returned to Hull and began working on the paperwork to bring Elana and her 13 year-old daughter, Sasha, to the United States.She finally arrived in Hull in March of 2004 with a six month visa.

They were married on March 20, 2004 in Oldenkamp’s home.Afterwards they traveled to Omaha so Elana and Sasha could begin the two-year process of getting a Green Card, or permanent residence in the United States.According to the U.S. Immigration Service, the process of completing and submitting a request for a Green Card through marriage to a U.S. citizen can be both costly and confusing.

But Elana had a back-up plan.

“The first six months of the marriage went pretty well,” said Oldenkamp.“We agreed that she should take a year to settle in before she found a job.We disagreed when I wouldn’t hire a maid for her.”

But then the relationship started to fray a little.Elana had a car and a driver’s license but demanded that Oldenkamp come home from work each morning to drive Sasha to school, which was only a few blocks away.“Elana just didn’t want to get out of bed to do it,” he explained.

“She also wanted to take big trips and a huge allowance for clothes.”

The following March, when Elana had been in the country for one year, Oldenkamp reminded her of their agreement that she should find a job.While she refused to look for a job, instead she forgot Gary’s birthday and their first anniversary.“That hurt,” he recalled.

In June Elana got a job at the Marshall Field’s store in Sioux Falls, but soon was tired of the long drive and asked Oldenkamp to pay for an apartment in Sioux Falls so she could live there during the week.

“I overlooked a lot during the first year,” he recalled.“But by then she had dropped the act of being the loving wife and I realized she had told me a lot of lies.She only wanted someone who could give her unlimited amounts of money.”

“I realized I’d made a big mistake and was already thinking about ending the marriage.”

The couple’s arguments about money continued throughout the summer.

On September 14, she again demanded an apartment in Sioux Falls and Oldenkamp told her to move, but he wasn’t going to help her.She claimed that he had promised her more money, and in a rage jumped on him and tried choking him.“She wasn’t really hurting me,” he said.But she was out of control, and my son from my first marriage was staying with me that evening and I was concerned for him.I tried to call 911, but she started hitting the phone out of my hands, kicking and scratching me.”

Oldenkamp and his son finally got outside to the car, locked the doors and called for help.

“Then Elana came running outside screaming, help me,” he recalled.“I thought it was some kind of a joke, so I rolled down the window and told her she’d get more attention if she ran over to the Casey’s Store.And that’s what she did.”

A Sioux County deputy first responded to Oldenkamp’s home and as he was talking to Gary, the deputy got a call about a woman calling for help from Casey’s.

And then Oldenkamp’s nightmare began.Elana claimed that he had abused her.She had scratches on her neck, which he found out later Sasha had inflicted, so her mother would be ‘more believable’.

Oldenkamp and Elana both made statements to Deputy Oostra, but Elana didn’t mention any choking incident in her statement.Later Oldenkamp was charged with choking Elana and Oldenkamp was sure the deputy prompted her to make that accusation.

“I thought it was so obvious that she was making the whole thing up,” stated Oldenkamp.“Why would I call for help if I was abusing her?But the deputy said someone had to be arrested, so I spent the night in jail.”

“To understand this incident you have to know about the Violence Against Women Act of 1996,” said Oldenkamp.“There is a little piece in it that states if an immigrant is abused by her husband or other family member, and can prove the abuse, then they become admitted for permanent residence.Elana was going to get her green card with or without me.”

Elana was taken to the Family Crisis Center and two days later she was taken to Des Moines to stay with a cousin, Alex, also a Russian immigrant.

Two months later, Oldenkamp received a surprise call from Alex, who wanted to help him.

“Soon after arriving in Des Moines, Elana proudly confessed how easily she had convinced everyone of the abuse,” said Oldenkamp.“By this time she’d contacted the Iowa Coalition against sexual assault and abuse and claimed that he’d sexually abused her and verbally sexually abused Sasha.Her plan was to sue me for a large monetary settlement.Plus if she could get me on the assault charges, her green card was guaranteed.”

The cousin also explained that Elana was looking for a rich, lavish lifestyle in the United States, but living in Hull with Gary wasn’t what she hoped for.

Fortunately for Oldenkamp, Alex was having the same problems with Elana and Sasha.They wanted to be pampered but didn’t want to contribute anything to the household.

According to Oldenkamp, Alex obtained a court order to kick Elana out of her home.Now she wanted to tell the truth about Elana.

Back in Sioux County, Oldenkamp had been charged with serious sexual assault, which is a felony.

But he and his lawyer began building the case of Elana’s deception.

Alex also told Oldenkamp that Elana had left her diary in Hull and he needed to find it.The diary was written in Russian, which Oldenkamp had translated and described her plans to deceive him by any means possible to find the wealthy lifestyle she was looking for.

His trial was set for May 9, 2006.“County Attorney Melissa O’Rourke told my lawyer that she set the date so far into the future because she hoped by then Elana would be on a plane back to Russia,” said Oldenkamp.“We showed her the evidence and I think she knew this charge had no merit but she didn’t want to back down.”

Last January, Oldenkamp’s lawyer was offered a plea bargain from Sioux County.“They would drop the charge of abuse to a simple misdemeanor,” he said.“But I would still be saying I was guilty of abusing her, which was a lie.Plus, Elana would still get her green card and I’d have to spend six months in anger management classes.That really made me angry.”

“I think O’Rourke just wanted to look good to the voters in an election year,” he added.“My lawyer and I were certain we had enough evidence to win the case, so I turned down the plea bargain.I started thinking maybe the state should prosecute O’Rourke.”

Coincidentally, Fox News was doing stories on immigrant bride scams near the time of Oldenkamp’s trial.He discovered a support group of men who’d gone through the same problems with their Russian brides.Someone from that network gave his name to Fox News and they contacted him about covering his abuse trial.

Oldenkamp advised Fox News to contact the county about coverage.“The very next day my lawyer got a call from the attorney’s office saying they’d reduced the charge to interruption of a 911 call,” said Oldenkamp.“They just wanted to get rid of this case.”

His lawyer explained that the charge was similar to a speeding ticket; Oldenkamp wouldn’t have to take anger management classes and Elana would not receive her green card.He advised Oldenkamp to plead guilty to the charge.

So, two weeks ago he walked into the Sioux County courtroom and plead guilty.

“It was a lie,” he stated.“I didn’t interrupt any 911 call, but this whole incident has been about lies.“It started with a lie, was perpetuated by lies and ended with me telling a lie to make it go away.”

“I don’t feel like this county is my friend anymore.The sheriff’s department didn’t believe me.The Family Crisis Center wouldn’t even look at evidence of the scam and the county attorney’s office just played politics,” said Oldenkamp.“I’ve lived here my whole life, I go to work at a legitimate business, pay taxes and contribute to local causes.I keep wondering why they would treat me this way.”

He said Elana is still in Des Moines trying to get her green card.“As far as Elana is concerned, I feel like a gullible, stupid sap.But I’d never hurt anyone.I do plan to submit evidence to the authorities to keep Elana from staying in the U.S. though.”

The couple was divorced earlier this year.

Oldenkamp shakes his head in disbelief when telling his account.“You couldn’t write a soap opera this good.”
By Jeanne Visser
for Sioux County Index

© 2006 Sioux County Index Hull, Iowa. All Rights Reserved.

Posted by: GentleGiant

Ham, what are your motives in re-posting an ancient (in web terms), article??

Posted by: GoingToRussia

I don't see the big deal. There are many "messy" divorces every year in every country not just with foreign brides.

My American cousin married an American woman. He gave her everything, a child, all his money/investments, and his retirement money to start a business. When his money was gone ... so was she.

It doesn't matter where or who you marry, marriage is something that works or doesn't work and some people just use the other and then leave. It happens every day in every country. Nothing earth shattering about this news.

Posted by: I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham

Oldenkamp spent a week in Moscow in January 2003, and before he left, asked Elana to marry him.

When ya play by schit's rules, schit happens. Poor beggar was sucked in by the agency hype. Plenty of others have been and plenty of others will be.

I/O

Posted by: Texas Proud

I still don't know what happened to Ham....

He either got scammed and is bitter... OR he has been unable to get a Russian lady because of his attitude and so he thinks all are scammers... and is bitter... he does not have anything good to say about the process, contributes nothing positive... yet people want his 'wisdom'.... beats me why....

I knew one guy who kept quitting jobs and moved back home even though he had three kids and an ex.... he blamed everybody else for all his problems... once I said the only common thing among all his problems was HIM... his attitude... we have not spoken for many many years and I am happy that I don't have to deal with him any more....

Posted by: GoingToRussia

As I recall, Ham got scammed one time for a $100, maybe 2 or 3 I really don't remember but it wasn't much. He has disliked the idea of a foreign marriage ever since.

Posted by: ham

hey! This is supposed to be a nice place where people discuss facts or things, not innuendo about personalities of anonymous internet posters, remember?
This is the 'nice' reply trying to offer a fig leaf or whatever peace tree it is.
You can comment on the news article or fact, but cast aside popcorn explanations about personality flaws...remember to mind the plank in your own eye instead of the splinter in your brother's.

Posted by: GentleGiant

Not answered my question tho.

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

When ya play by schit's rules, schit happens. Poor beggar was sucked in by the agency hype. Plenty of others have been and plenty of others will be.

I/O

I'm not even sure I would blame this one on the hype some agencies sell. At some point we all have to take responsibility for our own behavior. If you ask a women to marry you after only one week of knowing her from a culture you don't know anything about, then you are asking for an a*** kicking.

Posted by: I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by goforit

Yep.............When ya play by schit's rules, schit happens.

I/O

Posted by: goforit

The story does raise some excellent points.

1. Assuming he used an agency (we don't really know) then it points out the danger of buying "to good to be true" hype, if in fact that is where he got his ideas of Russian women.

2. It points out the stupidity of men who really don't have a clue about women as a gender. Docile compliant women really aren't to be found anymore in most of the world. That doesn't mean she is an angry feminist but it also doesn't mean she is a doormat.

If my online experience has taught me anything, is that many of the problems men have is that they simply don't know how to date, and don't know how to distingush between behaviour that is common to all women, and behaviour that is cultural in nature. Agency hype only works when there is fertile soil for it to take root in.

I also think they tend to underestimate the incredible transformation that is happening in places like Russia and China, and the enormous pressure freedom, economic in particular, will place on the basic structure of your gals' worldview once she arrives in your home country.

3. It points out the basic gullibility of many men when it comes to marriage and dating on foreign soil. Asking to marry after a week, unless you are a very astute judge of character or marrying within a tight ideological framework that both you and her are very self-conscious about, is an absolute recipe for disaster, although I'm sure there are exceptions.

4. It shows the sad state of the politicization of the gender wars in America. The police showed up so somebody has to go to jail. It certainly is true in my state and can wind up with a man spending 30 days in jail even before the allegation is shown to be true or false. Domestic Violence laws in the US are totally out of control.

5. It demonstrates the guilty upfront mentality that so many of these women's agencies have. The IMBRA act would lead one to think this kind of thing never happens, since all US men are pathetic louts in disguise and need to undress themselves before even making contact with a foreign woman. Gag me.

6. It illustrates the prosecutorial misconduct that has become part and parcel of the American justice system. They should have just let it go but to save face and justify budgets they needed some kind of confession, even if it was a false one.

The value of the story, IMO, is not that a man can be taken for a ride (or a woman for that matter), that type of thing happens all the time all over the world, and the only way to avoid such a risk is not to marry at all.

No, IMO, the value of the story lies in detailing a particular way a man can be taken for a ride when dealing with a woman from another country, and thus help him to minimize the relational risks that are peculiar to international relationships.

Posted by: goforit

Oh and one other thing the story inadvertantly demonstrates but I personally think is very important. Get to know the family of the woman you might marry. They may not have your best interest at heart. They may think she is making a mistake. They may even be in on the scam if she is not on the up and up. But if you watch and listen carefully you will learn many things that will help you in the decision making process, and sometimes, like in the case of the above story, you will get help from honest family members if she is a scammer.

Imagine if he had met Alex before marrying Elana. It may have saved him a heap of trouble. I always ask a woman if she has family members in this country because I want to meet them and spend time with them if she does before I ask her to marry me.

Another thing I have done stateside is that I allow the women in my family to evaluate any potential mate. I don't announce it upfront I just bring her around and my mom and sisters will undoubtedly over time point out things I may have missed or overlooked. Just like I think a man is much better able able to judge the motives of another man, so I think a woman can more easily judge the motives of another woman.

In my case, I have a Russian community I am part of, and you better believe any potential spouse is going to spend a lot of time with my Russian women friends before I make any long term decision.

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

Yep.............When ya play by schit's rules, schit happens.

I/O

Yep, you got that right.

Posted by: JohnnyLaRue

Hmm, this guys story seems tame compared to my divorce.

Posted by: Spakoyna

You guys should pay attention to this! Russian women do expect the moon.

My wife is living 10 fold better than when she was in Russia. But she always wants more. Her explanation is I didn't have the opportunity before and you no have problem to spend this money. I must say I never expected to fight about money. I suggest you guys only let your lady know what needs to be known about assets. The majority of Russian women don't see the long haul retirement picture.

Now for the icing on the cake. Remember the advice about keeping your ladies away from the Russian ladies already here? I really only have a problem when she spends a bit of time with a few of the younger than their husband ladies(10-25 years) that have big bucks and obviously no passion! But dem ole farts buy em what they want.

Posted by: I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spakoyna

You guys should pay attention to this! Russian women do expect the moon.

Uh ha, bitten off a little more than we thought we might need to chew? Yep, there is a certain "entitlement" mentality among RW, but it is up to you to be man enough to quietly set solid boundaries from the outset AND continue to manage the situation. She only needs to know what she needs to know? What happens if you slip off your perch tomorrow? She is on her own, high and dry? Sounds like a relationship rooted in love and trust……NOT. I agree, RW often don’t understand 401K’s or as we call it superannuation. Funny how they will once you explain it properly AND openly.

Suggesting that her mixing with other RW, older or younger is going to take her off course may have some truth, but if the relationship is solid, surely there is some talking about the ideas she is being pumped with? I have to say that I am more than happy for my Mrs to meet other Russians. If she comes home with some BS, I call it and explain why I consider it BS. If she is sucker to the "Crabs in a bucket" thing (Each trying to out do the other), and BTW, I suspect RW are the originators of this one, then cut it off and pull her into line. Point out to her that it serves no purpose other than to place your joint financial security at risk. Ask her the question, does she want the high life now or the good life for the rest of her life?

Now for the real icing on the cake……………..if the lady is under such restrictive pressure that she is looking for other ideas or even accepts other ideas which are not in the interest of the marriage, I suggest the marriage needs some serious attention. If it is simply a case of a few women having a little beotch session about their husbands because he barked at them for whatever reason, get used to it, women do that.

Having said that, the article is a good wake up to those in the search phase, particularly silly guys who marry women they have only spent 5 minutes with.

I/O

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spakoyna

You guys should pay attention to this! Russian women do expect the moon.

Spak, that is probably good advice for any man who is contemplating marriage.

Quote:

Now for the icing on the cake. Remember the advice about keeping your ladies away from the Russian ladies already here? I really only have a problem when she spends a bit of time with a few of the younger than their husband ladies(10-25 years) that have big bucks and obviously no passion! But dem ole farts buy em what they want.

Fortunately all the russian women I know are married to russian men, or are widowed or divorced, and don't have a big sugar daddy giving them anything they want.

Posted by: goforit

I should add that it is very important however that your estate be set up properly so that if something should happen to you she is taken care of. I spent too many years in the financial planning business knowing about the terrible tragedy of men who keep their wives unprepared and in the dark, and then pass away, and she has no clue.

Get with a good lawyer, set it all up, and then prepare a video that explains in exquisite detail everything she needs to know and do. Instruct your lawyer to give it to her if you should have an untimely end.

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

Having said that, the article is a good wake up to those in the search phase, particularly silly guys who marry women they have only spent 5 minutes with.

I/O

But here is what is perplexing. Do any journalists ask the tough questions anymore? If I am writing an article about how a guy got scammed, and during the interview he mentions he was only with the lady for a week before asking her to marry him, then at the very least I am going to suggest in my article that the guy appears to be incredibly foolish, at the very least.

Posted by: I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by goforit

TSK TSK, that wouldn't fit the "Evil empire perpetrating terrible deeds on our boys" type of sales pitch would it.

Imagine the headlines............"Silly boy gets his tit caught in a wringer"........compared to "The New Russian Terrorism". Which will sell up the ratings?

I/O

Posted by: swindoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spakoyna

You guys should pay attention to this! Russian women do expect the moon.

Can people please not use massive generalisations like this, my better half and other FSU women I know are not at all like this. Of course there are a minority of women from all countries like this, that's why it is best to have a relationship with someone to weed the bad ones out, hopefully.

Posted by: Spakoyna

LOL! Guess I better make some clarifications!

I/O I have been completely open with my wife about my finances! My suggestion was perhaps those that don't need to show certain assets might be better revealed later. If a person goes south that is what a will is for!

Now about the other women. Swindoon, I do apologize as it was a sweeping generalization that isn't true. I would say at least more than 1/2 are like my wife!

My wife will not admit it but when it comes down to keeping up with the Jones' she is going to stay 1 step ahead! I am completely the opposite and could care less what Tom,Dick,or Harry Jones has! Thank goodness we only see these few women 2 or 3 times a year. I can honestly say in our 4 years of marrige my wife has spent more on clothes than my ex-wife of almost 25 years did during our entire marriage! She also has 5 times the amount of jewelry($1000's not $100's).

I hope everyone is not getting the wrong impression. I love my wife and would not trade her for anyone else in the world. I just posted this as a wakeup call for people to be aware of. I was completely open from day 1 about finances and we had many detailed discussions about what she should expect. LOL! and if your wife helps you in your business she is worth what 10 employees would cost!

Posted by: swindoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spakoyna

I would say at least more than 1/2 are like my wife!

My experience of local,

, FSU women is that maybe at most 1 in 10 are similar to your wife, maybe it is more common in FSU women who go to the US.

I personally would find this "keeping up with the Jones'" behaviour worrying as it is quite a negative and sometimes ultimately destructive trait. Doing it for yourself or your partner is one thing but trying to impress friends you do not see very often sounds strange, in my opinion.

Posted by: Stirlitz

This case once again manifests the importance of getting to know your would-be life time partner as well as possible. She was a translator but when the woman does not speak English well it is only worse.

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by GentleGiant

Ham, what are your motives in re-posting an ancient (in web terms), article??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham

hey! This is supposed to be a nice place where people discuss facts or things, not innuendo about personalities of anonymous internet posters, remember?

TP & GG, it should come as no big surprise that Ham keeps us informed of the latest MOB horror story, he will never be accused of being a international relationship "Rah-Rah" booster.

Nothing unexpected & nothing wrong with that.

When we get a guy

who's first post is "I met this girl online last week, I sent her $2,000 by Western Union for the visa & plane tickets, is this for real?" Ham will be the one to throw cold water all over him....

It certainly doesn't hurt to have someone post the warnings about the whole process, and that's what Ham does.

Guys, I don't think we should be slamming his motives, he usually posts unhappy stories - that's just his style. just my 2 pence

Ham some people here don't like your so-called "negative attitude", I wouldn't let it bother you.

I've been over to the FSU 6 times, & I speak Russian too, but I still have to be careful to avoid scams. I don't think it hurts new travellers to hear all kinds of stories, both good & bad.

Anyways, enough of this negative pessamistic stuff, I just won the UK lottery! All I have to do is send them $5000 to pay for the taxes and the money is mine! WooHoo!

Quote:

From: uknationboard20@yahoo.co.uk
> Subject: We are pleased to inform you that you have won UK lottery.
> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:13:42 +0100
> To:
>
> UK LOTTERY BOARD
>
> We are pleased to inform you that you have won 900,000 GBP in the British Online Sweepstake Promo head on 9th of June 2008. Your Ticket Number is 05-08-10-18-20-46-{43}. To further the claims of your prize, you are advice to contact your claims department.

Learn to use proper grammar in your phishing e-mails you idiots!
>
> Contact Person: Mr. Kenneth Adams
> E-mail: kenthadams@live.com
>
> Congratulations once again.
> Yours faithfully,
> Mr. Key Jefferson
> Online Coordinator
> Ticket Number 05-08-10-18-20-46-{43}.

Posted by: GentleGiant

I think this one from "The Register" is far funnier.

Quote:

Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 21:13:57 +0200
From: peterwong2@tiscali.cz
Subject: Att
To: undisclosed-recipients

I am peter-wong from Bank hang seng hong kong, I have a late client funds of $8 USD in my bank and i need you to front as beneficiary,if interested contact me for more details on Email

wong47@yahoo.com.hk

Sincerely, Mr.p-wong.

I cant wait for my cut!!

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by GentleGiant

I think this one from "The Register" is far funnier.

I cant wait for my cut!!

$8 - What is that about 3 pounds?

{or 2 liters of petrol.....}

Posted by: GentleGiant

More like £4.50, about 3/4 of a gallon !! (UK not those weedy US ones).

Posted by: ham

Frankly I have no obligation to answer loaded questions, especially from (removed by a moderator)

Most people scream for information, but aren't happy when information is provided.
Of course, who knows...his side, her side, the truth, whatever...you will never know no matter what you might be reading, so why bother asking for information? Every source may be rigged or have a vested interest, including positive ones

.
Another one is that girls fall in & out of love all the time and that's natural.
Sure...girl falls out of love & leaves. Taking poor Barney to the cleaners with fake charges is always a bit suspicious

.
Nothing is guaranteed in matters of feelings, but dating dealers do claim to be able to control an otherwise rowdy game, at least to a telling extent.
If I (had) thought in the beginning the FSU was just like the next pub scene here, I wouldn't have bothered...I was told something and had to learn to part wheat from chaff

.

Information (coming from me, anyways ) is to the benefit of unsuspecting lurkers and undecided people, not hardcore partisans of a choice

.
Ever argued with a smoker/drinker over smoke or alcohol?
I never do; whatever makes them happy.
How many times do people complain 'I wish I had known this'...?

There are few people who love to love to delve into popcorn hypotheses about my personality -with honchos turning blind eyes to their systematic criticism of one individual- basically because I disagreed with them one, two or three years ago, and do so to 'make me pay' or something.

Look, here is a news article; if you don't like it, complain to the the publisher.
I suggest keeping your energies and stamina for when you will need them most...because you will...and I'm afraid it won't be so easy as blasting an anonymous poster called Ham online.

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham

Frankly I have no obligation to answer loaded questions, especially from people who ought to buy a mirror some day.

REFRAIN from personal attacks!

You have this posted in TWO threads!

Posted by: ham

Quote:

Originally Posted by searcher

REFRAIN from personal attacks!

You have this posted in TWO threads!

hey did you happen to miss these

Quote:

I still don't know what happened to Ham....

He either got scammed and is bitter... OR he has been unable to get a Russian lady because of his attitude and so he thinks all are scammers... and is bitter... he does not have anything good to say about the process, contributes nothing positive... yet people want his 'wisdom'.... beats me why....

I knew one guy who kept quitting jobs and moved back home even though he had three kids and an ex.... he blamed everybody else for all his problems... once I said the only common thing among all his problems was HIM... his attitude... we have not spoken for many many years and I am happy that I don't have to deal with him any more....

As I recall, Ham got scammed one time for a $100, maybe 2 or 3 I really don't remember but it wasn't much. He has disliked the idea of a foreign marriage ever since.

if you want to play sheriff, do it both ways.

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

LOL!

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spakoyna

LOL! Guess I better make some clarifications!

I/O I have been completely open with my wife about my finances! My suggestion was perhaps those that don't need to show certain assets might be better revealed later.

Thanks for that clarification. I have been wondering about it since you brought it up in another thread awhile back (which I never finished but I will be returning to shortly).

Personally I think there is wisdom is slowly revealing yourself in this approach, but I'm sure others will disagree.

Quote:

If a person goes south that is what a will is for!

Alas, if only it was so simple.

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham

Frankly I have no obligation to answer loaded questions, especially from (removed by a moderator)

Tis true, but it might appear to some that the question isn't loaded, but rather incapable of being answered by you.

Quote:

Most people scream for information, but aren't happy when information is provided.

Seems like a rather overly generalized statement, eh?

Quote:

Of course, who knows...his side, her side, the truth, whatever...you will never know no matter what you might be reading, so why bother asking for information? Every source may be rigged or have a vested interest, including positive ones

I fail to see your point. Tis true what you say, but why should that stop anyone from seeking out the truth of a matter? Ultimately, truth is where the power lies, whether it is a positive or negative story. Otherwise people could just make up stories either way (as you constantly tell us about the positive stories) and they would have no bearing on reality.

Quote:

If I (had) thought in the beginning the FSU was just like the next pub scene here, I wouldn't have bothered...I was told something and had to learn to part wheat from chaff

Well now you know, so I guess you need not bother.

Quote:

Information (coming from me, anyways ) is to the benefit of unsuspecting lurkers and undecided people, not hardcore partisans of a choice

And to that extent, I'm sure it is appreciated by many, even "hardcore partisans of choice" who might take in what you say, give it due consideration, but nonethless choose a different course of action than you, fully aware of the consequences of not following the gospel according to Ham. I mean really, some of your biggest fans here after all, are married, to FSU women at that

Quote:

Ever argued with a smoker/drinker over smoke or alcohol?
I never do; whatever makes them happy.

Presumably you are making this statement because hard core partisians of choice are engaged in what you consider to be an addictive bad habit that can't be shaken.

Hmmmm....the underlying assumptions you bring to these posts make it hard to take you seriously when you say you are only providing warnings for those that might not have been warned or are not fully aware. Right.

Quote:

I suggest keeping your energies and stamina for when you will need them most...because you will...

And there you have it again...the underlying assumption of everything you post....things WILL go bad. Prophet Ham has spoken.

Posted by: GentleGiant

I am sure that one day Ham will be cured.

(Pun intended).

Posted by: GreenBarb

But what ever way you like to look at it Ham will always be negative in his opinion. Somethings just have to be accepted the way they are. Ham is ham...

Posted by: freebird

GreenBarb, nice to see you again!

Yes Ham likes to give the "worst case scenario"

IMO it doesn't hurt for everyone to be more aware, especially Newby travellers.

Posted by: matt235

Actually, I think that the stories that ham brings to our attention is good to have here. We all need a reference point on things. Sometimes those reference points are positive ones and other times they are negative ones. I'm not sure why some folks get upset about his posts, if they don't like them, they really don't have to read them. They can say to themselves "well, that is just ham putting out another of his stories", and continue on to the next thread. The information actually contained in them, like a lot of news stories need to be taken with a grain of salt (or 2), but knowing that this long distance relationship thing that we are all involve in at some level or another is not all perfect is needed, and sometimes the proof that goes along with it.

Some say that ham is bitter or mad at somebody or something. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. But it is his right. I got mad and posted something yesterday on another forum that dealt with bicycling. I got blasted by virtually everyone on there, but in the end, it was still my opinion and everyone knew it. Eventually, we all got over the initial outcry and have moved on. We should consider this approach for some of the things that we see here on RMP.

OK, that is truly just my opinion, so blast away.

later,

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt235

Some say that ham is bitter or mad at somebody or something. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. But it is his right. I got mad and posted something yesterday on another forum that dealt with bicycling. I got blasted by virtually everyone on there, but in the end, it was still my opinion and everyone knew it. Eventually, we all got over the initial outcry and have moved on. We should consider this approach for some of the things that we see here on RMP.

OK, that is truly just my opinion, so blast away.

Yeah as I said some people just need to chill out.

You might not have seen the old threads, but there are a couple of members here who have had a bad experience with a woman coming over and then totally taking him for a ride.

Ham presents these "worst case scenario" examples, so that the guy might think twice. If a guy meets a girl and brings her over a couple of months later, it might not be a good idea to immediately put her name on the house deed, get only joint bank accounts etc.

Too many guys go over there all starry-eyed

Posted by: blucatz

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt235

OK, that is truly just my opinion, so blast away.

later,

Do ya feel blasted yet?

Posted by: Texas Proud

Matt,

The problem is that a certain member is 100% negative... always... with nothing good to say... I even asked if that member could provide a certain number of examples where they WERE positive... heck, I might have missed them...

But, nope..... ignored the question completely... so I put the member in the TROLL category....

We all have different opinions... we all have different ways to pursue how we go about meeting and hopefully marrying someone from the FSU... that is normal.... but except for one.... we all are also SUPPORTIVE of that search for the other members...

Heck, read through a number of the threads.... you will see a lot of opinions of 'red flags' and other warnings from members to others... so it is not like there are not stories of the failings of this pursuit.... there are many... but still... except for one we are all moving toward our goal and wish others the best...

And even some who had gone through the process and 'failed'.... got married and divorced... got a K-1 and she did not show up... thought they had a good relationship and found she was a GTG.... yes, many have failed... but they seem to 'shake it off' and either say they are done with it and will look locally or throw their line back in the FSU pool....

And the member USED to be very very RUDE.... and truth be told, still is more then they need to be....

SOOO, a rude member who has NO positive posts... other members who give enough warnings to people who need them (which seems to be his only talent).... seems to me we can lose the one and the board would be better...

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

Matt,

The problem is that a certain member is 100% negative... always... with nothing good to say... I even asked if that member could provide a certain number of examples where they WERE positive... heck, I might have missed them...

But, nope..... ignored the question completely... so I put the member in the TROLL category....

We all have different opinions... we all have different ways to pursue how we go about meeting and hopefully marrying someone from the FSU... that is normal.... but except for one.... we all are also SUPPORTIVE of that search for the other members...

Heck, read through a number of the threads.... you will see a lot of opinions of 'red flags' and other warnings from members to others... so it is not like there are not stories of the failings of this pursuit.... there are many... but still... except for one we are all moving toward our goal and wish others the best...

And even some who had gone through the process and 'failed'.... got married and divorced... got a K-1 and she did not show up... thought they had a good relationship and found she was a GTG.... yes, many have failed... but they seem to 'shake it off' and either say they are done with it and will look locally or throw their line back in the FSU pool....

And the member USED to be very very RUDE.... and truth be told, still is more then they need to be....

SOOO, a rude member who has NO positive posts... other members who give enough warnings to people who need them (which seems to be his only talent).... seems to me we can lose the one and the board would be better...

Pretty accurate TP, although I never has a problem with someone who "stirs the pot", so to speak, it keeps things here from getting too stagnant.

Most members do not post the "horror stories" like he does, and I don't think it hurts a newby to understand that there are a very few REALLY BAD people in this game, and to know some of the signs to look for.

Posted by: matt235

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

And the member USED to be very very RUDE.... and truth be told, still is more then they need to be....

SOOO, a rude member who has NO positive posts... other members who give enough warnings to people who need them (which seems to be his only talent).... seems to me we can lose the one and the board would be better...

I guess maybe I did not see the rude portions, then again, I haven't read everything yet either. Opinions are good to have, but being rude is not. Please allow me to re read some of this stuff and maybe reevaluate the rudeness.

I agree I don't like rude people either. As I am ususally a rather optimistic person, I sometimes do not see how one person is affecting others. And it sounds like there might be more here than I know of or see right now.

Thanks for pointing this out.

later,

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt235

Your going to have to go back a few years.... there were names like Wong and Pedro and others thrown around like candy... I still see some rudeness now with some of the emoticoms.... but not nearly as bad as it was.... I guess that is something to celebrate...

Posted by: EasyTarget

Ham: if you read this I for one am curious to know what has been your experiences with international dating? Did you have an engagement go sour? Did you have scammers contact you? Or are you happily married?

Just curious...if you would like to share.

Posted by: sidney

If I remember correctly he gave a run down. Maybe I can find this thru a search.
Sid

Posted by: ham

Quote:

this person sees 'rudeness' with emoticons and no 'rudeness' in the systematic campaign against me making unfounded assumptions over my personality or life.
Well, if Ramon Antonio Gerard Estevez sucks, Martin Sheen is much trendier.

Quote:

But, nope..... ignored the question completely... so I put the member in the TROLL category....

oooh!

He called me a TRO-OOL! Nice peeople doon't dooo thaat!

Posted by: ham

Quote:

Originally Posted by GentleGiant

I am sure that one day Ham will be cured.

(Pun intended).

but it's nice how people discuss arguments and facts, not personalities...

Quote:

but nonethless choose a different course of action than you, fully aware of the consequences of not following the gospel according to Ham.

and...?
I couldn't care less what others do...they can enter a casino and go home wearing diamonds or a barrel... it is not going to make any difference in my life.

Quote:

The problem is that a certain member is 100% negative... always... with nothing good to say... I even asked if that member could provide a certain number of examples where they WERE positive... heck, I might have missed them...

herbal tea, Bach flowers, color therapy...
Positive what?
It's a newspaper article not my own concoction.

Quote:

Tis true, but it might appear to some that the question isn't loaded, but rather incapable of being answered by you.

and it might appear to some others that a few desperate people attack an individual online because a news article he posted miffs them.

Posted by: CDarwin

Interesting article. Media to the rescue! Yeah!!!

It provides a different perspective of a possible "worst case scenario". Obviously not all marriages with foreign brides are picture perfect. It's good to be aware of what COULD happen.