Where is the truth? (Russian women and smoking cigarettes) - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

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Where is the truth? (Russian women and smoking cigarettes)
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Posted by: campanula

Hello, everybody.

I have a question to you all.

This is not a secret, that in Eastern Europe many people are still smoking. Both men and women. And my country is not exception. Most part of our young people (about 70%) is smokers and more than a half of women too.

But, as I see, NO ONE WOMAN from Eastern Europe says in her questionnaire that she is a smoker. I think that proportionally it should be in a half of questionnaires, but it is not. (If you can find even one, post a link, please, I would love to see that miracle.

)

But on the other hand, every second woman says in her profile that she hates cheaters and liars and that is why she is absolutely sincere.

So, I’m thinking, or only nonsmoking women are looking for husbands, or part of those women is liars. There is one another possibility that I’m wrong with my thoughts, or I should not believe in what my own eyes see.

So, the question is: How do you think, where is the truth?

Posted by: Bordric

Maybe omission is better word than liar.

Posted by: mila

How about you campanula ?
Do you speak only the truth always ? Especially when you want to impress a man?
Nobody wants to speak about his/her own lacks.

Posted by: Bordric

I think they also worry about the idea that the West is going more and more against smoking and think a man will just over look them for this.

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by campanula
But, as I see, NO ONE WOMAN from Eastern Europe says in her questionnaire that she is a smoker. I think that proportionally it should be in a half of questionnaires, but it is not. (If you can find even one, post a link, please, I would love to see that miracle. )

Here are almost 130 miracles: Kherson Women Who Smoke

Posted by: searcher

Hi everyone i'm back and a bit tired...

You bring up a good point.

I heard the same thing from someone else so I expect that might smoke....

On her all of her profiles she answered no to smoking but guess what........

SHE SMOKES.

Its an occasional thing and she doesn't do it at home but quite often when she was with me she smoked.

So..... what can I say.... I was warned by others about this and her good qualities more than make up for it.

I *really* wish she didn't but what can I do

Posted by: Keystone

Quote:

Originally posted by searcher
[B]Hi everyone i'm back and a bit tired...

You bring up a good point.

I heard the same thing from someone else so I expect that might smoke....

On her all of her profiles she answered no to smoking but guess what........

SHE SMOKES.

Yes my nonsmoker Elena smokes. Also I posted as a nonsmoker on my profile. when I posted my profile I had not smoked for a year and a half. I restarted smoking a couple of months before I went to meet her in Kiev for the first time. It was my choice to pick up this bad habit again. but I try to blame this on other events in my life. i.e. first trip to Ukraine, meeting beautiful FSU woman, will she be there to meet me, son with luekimia, stress from work. I am trying to quit again and trying to learn Russian. I have more success with the Russian.

Anyway back to the point. I do not think it is really comparable to lie about something like smoking with cheating. Cheating would be a really serious lie to tell. Granted lying is wrong, but I find it almost impossible to go though a day without saying some form of a lie. Mostly to salesman or telemarketers. Just saying something to get rid of them.

mila quote
Nobody wants to speak about his/her own lacks.

So I do not think Elena misrepresented herself to me by smoking. I also wonder that when she comes to America and finds out how expensive smoking is $5.00 a pack she might quit also. For $5.00 in Ukraine one can buy many packs of cigs. or probably food for the family for the day.

Keystone

Posted by: myshka

So I like the way everyone now has "degrees" for lying.. Lying is lying, whether it is omission or made up or whatever.

I am not saying you can't excuse whatever you personally want to excuse. However, a lie remains a lie. If a woman was tailoring her profile to make it more attractive to potential suitors by lying about smoking, what else was similarly tailored? Maybe it just semantics, (lies or omissions) or mabye its ethics? Just a thought.

Posted by: Keystone

Quote:

Originally posted by myshka
So I like the way everyone now has "degrees" for lying.. Lying is lying, whether it is omission or made up or whatever.

Yes a lie is a lie.

But, I feel that there are degrees of responses or reactions for finding out lie. Like finding out your man/woman is cheating and lying about it usually would be a relationship stoper or ender. While something much lesser as lying about a bad habit would reselt hurt feelings and maybe some mistrust but this usually should not end a serious relationship. My Elena posted her origainal profile in 2001 and she posted non smoker maybe she didn't even smoke then. Also her profile says she is divorced but she is a widow. I have a copy of her husbands death certificate for appling for her visa. She says she posted as a widow but agency made mistake. I beleive Elena is truthful about this.

Also it could be possibility that Agencies lie for there clients to make them more attractive. Or are lazy in their translation.

My profile at my agency now says

"I have meet a kind, caring and family orintated woman that I want to be my wife. I love her very much. I am supportive of my Elena"

but does it , I still recieve many letters from FSU woman

not trying to bash agencies just have experience with a few.

Keystone

Posted by: Jutman

Hi

maybe becus its so normal, that she don't think its important !!

Like that many men don't think its important to tell that they want to se 8-10-20 hors sport a week.

Posted by: mila

Quote:

Originally posted by Jutman
Hi

maybe becus its so normal, that she don't think its important !!

Like that many men don't think its important to tell that they want to se 8-10-20 hors sport a week.

I do not think that it is unimportantly. Simply they hide it, since it is a bad habit. And they are afraid to push away men by it.

Posted by: campanula

Thank you all for replays.

Now I’ve made some conclusions:

1. A small lie is not a lie, but just an omission.

(At other forum one girl told that she has “just missed” to tell to her pen-pal that she is an invalid.)

2. “Omission” works!!!
So, you could be not that much sincere, because it doesn’t really matter what you say. All other answers could be also missed. All these “I’m nice, caring, loving, easy going… etc.”

3. I suggest you guys to look for a good wife among smoking girls; because they really CAN NOT lie even they want “to impress the men”.

Myshka , certainly its ethics, not just semantics.
You can’t be “partly honest” the same as you can’t be “partly pregnant”.

Mila:
No, I do not speak the truth only, but I also do not need “to impress a man” by hook or by crook.
“In the war as in the war - all methods are ok”. Da?
(Have you ever thought about words “make up”? They have several meanings: to make up smb's. face, to make up to smb., to make up a story… Funny English…)
As I use make up some times, I can’t tell that I’m always honest.

ConnerVT
Thank you for the link. 130 women! Such a huge amount!
But anyway, I really admire honesty and bravery of these girls.

Posted by: Bordric

I do not think you understand omission compared to lies.

If the person is perfectly honest would they say their toes are not straight or that they have dry elbows? I mean come on there is difference between saying I can not walk and no I do not smoke!

Most everyone says they are social drinkers I wonder how many are actually drinkers! That is both east and west. How many on this thread said they are social drinkers but drink more than 2 times a month? Is that omission ignorance or a lie?

I drink wine every other day. Do I lie when I say social?

Do people always advertise their weakness when they are trying to meet a complete stranger? No I do not think they do.

Posted by: Charles

I think most women with the courage to put smoking in their profiles are looking for men who also smoke.

Smoking is a pretty social activity.
Campanula, you sure are making us all think about this one.

I have been very careful not to lie or omit about anything in my communication with my girlfriend. I do not want to fly halfway around the world just to admit to a lie.

Posted by: SteveLA

After a whole lot of reading, I've just got to put in my two cents.

Yes, I have done some browsing of profiles on different sites...and as a "die hard" smoker (pun intended)

, frankly, I am more likely to pass up someone who listed "No" in their profile.

So, those who may be trying to live up to the expectations of Western society (or perhaps, more accurately, Western men) are actually missing out on a spectcular, loving, caring, financially self-sufficent, really humble (can't you tell?) guy!

Would I be up-front about being a smoker? Absolutely. But, wait, what about a physical handicap? Isn't it supposed to be about who the person is rather than some physical defect? Certainly, this should be brought up pretty quickly, but should the first letter contain, "Oh, by the way, I have cerebal palsey, not really bad...."? Maybe not, but it should certainly be mentioned before things get serious, right? So, maybe I wouldn't mention my smoking right away...

I really don't think I'd be able to hide it; let's face it, I'm a walking ashtray!(or so I've been told).

So, do we get all bent out of shape about that "lack of honesty" in a profile? What about us guys who get our clothes pressed, our hair cut, and our cars washed because we want to make a good impression when the fact of the matter is we think an iron is something for making buildings and the car's anti-lock brakes actually seize at the sight of soap and water?

If it's that important that the person that you are interested in is a non-smoker, ask. If an untruthful response is made well, then I think that might be cause for concern. Otherwise, perhaps "get over it?" might be the call? (Ooops, got a little smart-alecky there).

Thanks for listening and

Have a Nice Day!

(Gee, I'll have to tone down the smiley use...)

Posted by: Jutman

Hi

have you heard about social drinking - yes you have. In my country and I believe in Russia to, there is the same phrase: social smoker.
Does this mean she has to tic the YES smoker at the questionaire. No, a yes here means that she go and buy a package every day or so and smoke from 3-50 cigarets a day. But if you are at a party and do it to be social, its a NO smoker.

WAKE UP - the world is'nt black or white, Good - bad and so on.

Posted by: Yozhik

Hi everyone,

A similar situation to me, my ex-girlfriend from Lugansk smokes, yet stated "non-smoker" on her profile. I too am a smoker (more of a social smoker while out with friends drinking beer) and thoroughly intended on quitting before my first trip out to Lugansk. Needless to say, I did not quit, and during my first evening in a Lugansk nightclub, the cigarettes were offered around. Anna refused, I took a good few seconds to refuse, before mumbling something like "I'd kill for a drag!" when it was suggested I had a cigarette. When I then said "Anna doesn't smoke, neither do I" or something along those lines. . . .as soon as I was told it would be perfectly acceptable for me to smoke, and Anna might just do the same . . . I sparked up, and Anna smiled, doing just the same, saying "he's perfect" about me!!!

Sumashedshy!!!!

Si

Posted by: ulughbek

I'll be the American zealot on this issue. I am an ex-smoker myself. I think smoking is closer to the "I cannot walk" example than the social drinker example. Sure most people have tried smoking a little. But a "social smoker" who is firing up once a week is someone with a high probability of becoming an addict in the future. If your partner is an addict, they are going to die early, poison your children, etc. So it can be a deal breaker.

The world is not completely black and white, but smoking is about as close to something 100% bad as it gets. It is only a historical accident that it became more socially acceptable than say, heroin. How would you feel if your GF said she shot up last week?

Posted by: Yozhik

I think trying to surmise that smoking cigarettes is as bad as taking heroin is completely over the top. In England, smoking is not QUITE as socially unacceptable as in many parts of the US, and when I say that I am a social smoker, I do not mean that I am smoking because of social acceptance, I smoke with beer because I choose to do so. I smoke infrequently, sometimes I may go a day without a smoke, perhaps no more than 10 per day at other times, yet when I have a beer, I choose to have a cigarette, with no impotus on social acceptance or non-acceptance. There are vast differences, disrgarding social perceptions, between me going outside and sparking up a Marly Light, than my ex-girlfriend injecting heroin at the dinner table!

Posted by: ConnerVT

One of the dangers in Western-Russian relationships is to measure standards and culture using the USA as a baseline. Unfortunately, this is very commonly done by Americans, for our protectionist history combined with our quickly changing culture make us more isolated than we realize.

With regards to smoking, the attitude in the FSU is in many ways the one we had in the 60's and 70's. Many cigarette companies now target foreign countries (like Russia and many in the Far East) as good markets for their products. There is less government controls, and less media supplied information of the health risks.

Also, the live for today, for you don't know what tomorrow may bring mentality is very prevalent in the FSU. In contrast, the US has given us a strong sense of security and stability since the early 1980's and double digit inflation. Combine that with the baby boomers beginning to realize their mortality (a large group of affluent people, who 20 years ago were the same people doing many things that weren't very healthy!) and you can begin to see how the US has recently begun to place the negative stigma on cigarette smoking.

Posted by: Khashyar

You make some good points, Fred....

My wife Lena, in general, feels that a person has to enjoy life, and thus should be able to eat sugar, coffee and other things that I personally try to avoid

Lena (and many of her friends in Belarus) do NOT smoke.... Lena just told me that some of her friends DO smoke, but she says that she doesn't because it is a bad habit...

I do think that smoking is a more acceptable habit in Europe than in the U.S., and I don't know if the negative smoking campaigns have hit Europe and Russia yet.

But, Lena's closest friends do NOT snoke, and I did not personally see any of her friends smoke while I spent my 1 1/2 months in Mogilev.

Of course, smoking is not good for a person's health (see below )

Posted by: Yozhik

Hi everyone,

The anti-smoking campaign has been in Britain for some time, but it's only just getting to the stage where some towns and cities are attempting to ban smoking in bars, restaurants, and so forth. I know that Coventry (of Lady Godiva fame) just recently applied for just this, and I am sure if this application is approved by the government, then certainly the war against smoking will have taken a huge leap forward.

On a personal level, I know many friends, family members, work colleagues, and so forth, who have quit, sometimes with the aid of, say, nicorette patches, and I shall certainly be following suit very soon. I certainly agree with Khashyar's point that the real dangers of smoking are certainly not highlighted in Russia/FSU, and with the cost of 20 Marlboro Lights setting me back only 4 hryvnia, with some brands lower than 2 hryvnia, it is certainly affordable to young adults who the advertising companies invariably target.

There has been some debate as to whether the British Government could actually afford for all smokers in this country to quit. The cost to the National Health Service for smoking related diseases and so forth, is obviously high, but considering the equivalent of $8 for a packet of cigarettes, the government earn literally billions from taxation on cigarettes and tobacco - even the amazingly high financial cost of smoking, still many are undeterred.

Si

PS - nice smiley's Khashyar

Posted by: Khashyar

Another thought....

Yes, smoking has been proven to cause heart attacks and other illness, so we know that it has negative hearlth consequences...

And also, it is also true that Europeans have a different view about smoking than Americans do (although anti-smoking laws are also being considered in Europe, if I understand this correctly)...

At the same time, I personally respect a person's right to smoke or not smoke, and to choose the lifestyle that they would like...

But, if Lena decided to smoke, because it would affect me and our family if she either smokes around us or becomes ill as a result of her smoking, I would respectfully resist her decision to smoke...

Posted by: Anonymous

I feel that Europe varies greatly with attitudes and perceptions of smoking. I have travelled Spain and her islands a number of times and found the percentage of smokers significantly higher than in Great Britain. I do feel that the UK will start to follow the the way that our American cousins feel about smokers, and smoking in public places. I remember in Miami, albeit back in '98 and noticed a significant difference in acceptance to smokers, and I feel that should cities be successful in banning smoking in public establishments, like I believe Los Angeles is one??? then certainly the British public will likely be right there. I am not sure personally of what the situation is like in France, Spain, Italy, and so forth, but I would certainly say that Spain is not far from Ukraine in terms of number of smokers and attitudes to smoking.

Emoticon heaven More

Posted by: ConnerVT

Once again, it comes down to cultural differences.

Although Miami is in the US, you will find a disproportionately large number of people with Hispanic origins compared to the entire US demographic, where smoking is more predominant (tobacco is a local crop to the warmer climates). Although LA is also in the US (with also a large ethnic population), it is also the unofficial "health consciousness" capital of the world.

Trends in most of Western Europe and European Russia/FSU seem to follow one another more closely. Great Britain does seem to march to a different drummer, if you will. Perhaps it's due to it's closer alliance to the US, but another factor may be it also shares a bit of isolation geographically from it's European neighbors.

Posted by: Charles

Of course British and American culture are going to be closely tied. We are not far removed from our British cultural heritage here in the states. The apple does not fall far from the tree. Our common language and free flow of pop culture back and forth tie us together more strongly than modern trading zones tie our British cousins to their cross-channel neighbors.

I want to get back to the topic of truth. Smoking was just the prime example of a larger concern about truth.
How much untruth are we willing to accept in each other? How much untruth is too much?

Is one lie too much? That would not be reasonable, I think, if there was no harmful intent. If someone smokes a pack of cigarettes every 2 or 3 months, are they a smoker? I am not sure. When someone says they are a smoker, I imagine a pack a day habit.
Are some lies more forgiveable than others? Sure.
Smoking may be a deal breaker for some people and not for others, of course.

Example: I think Americans are highly likely to lie about their weight. Understating our weight is a real artform. I am sure many Western men lie about their weight to their Russian ladyfriends.
Will that be a dealbreaker for Russian women? Many Russian women write in their profile they want a man that is aveage weight or athletic. Do men fudge this info? I would bet money on it.
Do Russian women lose interest in a man who stated weight is 15 kg below reality? I would guess not if they have established a relationship with some emotional bonds.
I think that is some of the risk taken in a totally photograph, language, and thought-based relationship, like we have before we meet our women of the FSU.

Posted by: ConnerVT

Truth is based on perception. Unless it is something that can be accurately measured with an agreed on standard, most things are subject to interpretation and perception.

Ask the five people who witness an accident from the same vantage point, and you'll get five differing answers.

Many men will say they look younger than their age and, are in better physical shape for their age group. Some may admit they might lose a few pounds (when that number is more like 10-15% their current weight!). If they tell this to their prospective bride, which they have yet to meet, are they telling a lie? Even though it may not accurately portray the actual data, they may honestly believe this, or are trying to at least polish up their presentation of themselves.

Now, if a RW takes a break every hour or so from work and heads outside (or to a convenient stairwell) for a cigarette, is she a smoker? Certainly, no question. If she posts in her profile she doesn't smoke, it does not reflect the actions, and it would be agreed by most people as a lie (even by her own self, if put in the situation to do so).

What if she has an occasion cigarette with a co-worker after lunch? Or a couple when out with friends on the rare occasion she goes to a café? Whether she's developed a smoking habit or not, she is probably convinced she can stop anytime she wants, for she probably has had to make the decision in the past between eating or smoking. She knows that Americans are generally negative against smoking. So she lists that she doesn't smoke in her profile. Is this a lie? More importantly, is it any different than the American man in the example above?

The difference between truthfulness and deceit is not a solid black line. It's more like many fine gray ones...

(I have heard when the agency calls and says there is an man who wants to meet with her, the first question she will usually ask is "Is he fat?")

Posted by: Charles

I have read the quote from Russian women about whether an interested man is fat also. There is usually a history behind a quote like that. Some men send 10 year old pictures of themselves to Russian women.
On the fluid scale of truth and lies, that would qualify as a big lie to me.
A young man who worked with me about 7 years ago married a woman who said she was 26 years old. When he received their marriage license, he could see she was really 35.

She had deceived him for almost one year before they were married.
but does a lie have to be that hurtful to be a reason to break off a relationship?
I feel that was hurtful (bordering on malicious to let it go to the point of marriage and still not telling the truth) and deliberate misleading about info my friend was entitled to know. I could not accept that situation.

I know each person in this forum has their own standards and feelings about acceptable truth stretching and lying. I am just curious to know what others feel. How much truth stretching is acceptable to each of us. I want to hear from people to know their personal feelings, so I can compare them to my own. I think this really a very deep and pertinent personal subject for the women and men on this forum.

Posted by: campanula

Thank you, Charles, for turning this thread back to the topic.

I really was going to talk not about how bad or good smoking is. Even in Eastern Europe every child knows the right answer.
I was going to talk about the truth and lie, about where the end of a small lie and the beginning of a big lie is.
Smoking FSU girls (or drinking WM) is just an example, a “litmus paper” of frankness of the Internet advertisements.
From my own experience I can tell you that no one man told me the truth about his real age.
Here is my “love story” or “triumphal report from the battlefield”.

I’ve had two meetings within 4 years.
And both men were 10 yeas older then in their advertisements. And both didn’t even mentioned that before our meeting. Only after I sow their documents I’ve realized the real age of them.

For the first time after I was cheated by my loved one, I felt really ill about two years.

Then after I recovered, I decided to do not give up and start all over again. But I fell into the same trap!

This time I was on the look-out and it cost me only 6 months of depression.
Surely, it was not because of the lie about the age, it was because of sum of “small” intentional and unintentional lies.

And what I have now as a result: I’m still a subject for gossips in my town; I’m fully disoriented with my job and with my life at all. But I have a full package of fiancée documents…ho hum…

And I’m sure I’m not the only one victim of this “game” or of this war. There are many “killed in action” who just can’t tell you the same stories.

Posted by: Bordric

Campanula,

Thanks for sharing that information. I think once you put it into that context it is much different. Age is a major importance in my opinion much more then smoking. But I understand what you are saying completely.

I think if you are truthful from the start then you do not have all of these issues. I use normal everyday photos no professional photos and I also tell everything. I do not want to feel strain from having kept something hidden. I am a poor at lying anyway people know when I lie I am one of those that dart their eyes look at their shoes stutter their words.

I suppose smoking would also be very important to some people. Age though should be kept strictly truthful! You can not hide it for long. What are people thinking!

Sorry to hear you had so many issues with this process is really bad because it makes the whole thing seem a bad idea.

Scott

Posted by: SteveLA

Campanula -

I am really sorry to hear of your experiences. Not once, but twice...

I think I understand a little bit more about what started the thread.

Wish I had some sort of answer or some especially poignant words of encouragement, but I will remember your feelings about what happened to you when I am tempted to "gild the lilly" about who or what I am.

Steve

Posted by: Charles

Campanula,
I am also very sad to hear about your experiences. I sincerely hope you find someone you can be happy with.

I try very hard to be honest with my girlfriend. I mentioned weight in an earlier post because I recently had to tell my girlfriend I have gained five kg since my last photos were made. I want to be honest, even if it is not flattering to me. If there are any problems I want them to be understood before I get to Russia. My girlfriend tells me she has a bad temper sometimes. It will not seem so bad if I know that before I see her angry.

Lying is especially hard to endure from someone you give so much trust. I mean we are all talking about matters that can lead to marriages, and children, and possibly divorces later. It hurts me that so many people do not understand their lying hurts other people besides themselves. Some people understand and do not care. There are too many people with selfish motives in the world. Some people never learn that the important things in life are best when they are shared with as many people as possible, who love you.

Posted by: MisterKnightly

"I suppose smoking would also be very important to some people. Age though should be kept strictly truthful! You can not hide it for long. What are people thinking!"

For me, the opposite seems obvious. I can pass for younger than I am, but a smoker can't pass as a non-smoker very long. Even if she doesn't smoke around me, I'll smell it on her or be aware of it on her breath when we kiss. Fortunately, age doesn't smell (although, arguably, getting older DOES stink). But, let's say, for example, that I have told the woman that I am 32 when I am actually 39. When she meets me, she thinks I look 32. I am healthy and stay in shape, so I am as fit as a 32 year old man. Is her life affected negatively by the fact that the earth has revolved around the sun 7 more times than I have admitted to? Not that I can tell? Perhaps I may have fewer years left in me...and perhaps not. Who can tell THAT? Age, to me, seems an entirely psychological hangup.

The same is not true of smoking. MY life is affected negatively both immediately (smell, taste, expense, restaurant seating, etc) AND over the long term (her life expectancy, exposure to me and my children affecting OUR life expectancy, etc). Smoking IS a big deal.

And, the question of complete honesty should not be as easily dismissed as it seems to be either. We are in a situation where ALL we have to go on in the beginning is the truthfulness of what we tell one another, the accuracy of our pictures, etc. If we are saying it's okay to fudge on these, we take an already semi-blind situation and make it a COMPLETE shot in the dark. I tell the truth about myself when I communicate to these women. Believe me, I would LOVE to be able to say I am 30 and have 5% bodyfat. But, I won't do that. And, if I were to go meet a woman I have been corresponding with, that I have placed my trust in, that I have invested emotionally and financially to be in a relationship with, and I immediately discovered that she had lied to me about smoking, my trust in her would be severely undermined. Once a person has lied, it's difficult to consider them trustworthy. Have I ever lied. Over a lifetime, too many times to count. But, that doesn't change what I just said. If I lie to someone, they will have in the back of their minds that my words are open to suspicion. If a FSU woman lies to me, the same is true. The difference is, pursuing a relationship with a FSU woman requires SO much trust, patience, money, etc, that a lie from the beginning could ruin everything.
I would rather the woman say "I am trying to quit" (if that is what she's doing).

Posted by: Bordric

99% of the services do not have a option for "trying to quit". Also smoking is blown way out of proportion in both health risk and most especially second hand smoke which is all propaganda for the sheep to listen too.

Smoking can be quit you can not quit your age period. Even if you look younger you are still what ever age you are. You can quit smoking.

Age is not nearly as much as a hang up as smoking. Age is strictly important because no matter what you look like you will get old. If you are 40 and say you are 30 then you are a complete liar. If you say I am a non-smoker and trying to quit then you are at least trying.

Someone who has never smoked has no idea what smoking is like and should not be so quick to judge because of the tax feeding frenzy in the US. No one cares about smoking they care about taxing it, hence your constant crap on TV and Radio about second hand smoke. However when you are 60 you are 60. There is no room for lying because you have to lie directly. I can understand someone trying to quit smoking saying I do not if they have a goal to quit in 2 months.

Quote:

But, let's say, for example, that I have told the woman that I am 32 when I am actually 39. When she meets me, she thinks I look 32. I am healthy and stay in shape, so I am as fit as a 32 year old man. Is her life affected negatively by the fact that the earth has revolved around the sun 7 more times than I have admitted to?

Damn right it does. Retirement, good age for having children and many other reasons including how she feels about it. As I said smoking can be chaged but being 57 when she is still 33 can not. You may look young now but it will most likely catch up.

Quote:

I would rather the woman say "I am trying to quit" (if that is what she's doing).

Most services do not allow a trying to quit option. It is either yes or no.

Posted by: campanula

SteveLA
Thank you Steve, I really do not need other words than you said.

Charles:
Thank you for your wish, Charles, but I’m not sure that I’m ready to put my heart at that risk again. And I doubt if I could trust anybody.

Posted by: campanula

Quote:

Originally posted by MisterKnightly

I can pass for younger than I am… I am healthy and stay in shape, so I am as fit as a 32 year old man.

Are you sure? Who told you that? Do you trust that person or that source of information? Or you just think so, or hope so?

Quote:

Originally posted by MisterKnightly

Perhaps I may have fewer years left in me...and perhaps not. Who can tell THAT?

So, if no one can tell, if you can hide your lie thoroughly, it is not a lie? Are you a child to think so?
I really wish you to meet a girl with the same ideas and be happy together….

Posted by: MisterKnightly

Campanula, we seem to have a language problem here. I am not saying I SHOULD lie about my age. I am saying I SHOULD NOT. I am also saying a person SHOULD NOT lie about smoking, weight, drugs, habits, abilities, children, OR ANYTHING ELSE. So, yes, I desperately hope that I DO “meet a girl with the same ideas and be happy together.”

As for who told me I look younger than my age, everyone that comments on the subject, and every woman that guesses my age. *I* don’t think I look younger than 39. I just know that everyone else seems to think so. But, let’s remove me from the question. There is NO DOUBT that some people look younger than their age. THEY can pass for younger, THEY are in as good or better shape than the people who are the age that the person in question is mistaken for. Use THEM as the example. My point still stands. Age, under that scenario, is relatively unimportant. Smoking is not.

Posted by: RomanticTX

Well,
A Lie is a Lie! I have a three lies threshold in any relationship after which I just don't trust that person!
However, in some cultures lies are more of a norm, which makes my threshold almost impossible to keep!

IMHO (in my humble opinion) here in the US we are more honest than in many other countries (Before I get pounded, YES, I have lived in and traveled to many countries).

Peace!!

Posted by: Charles

I think age is a totally legitimate concern for people. When you look at profiles, you are asked to set the range of ages you are interested to see. Smoking and age are both legitimate and real concerns to people. If it is important to you that your girlfriend ( or boyfriend ) be no older than 35 and no younger than 25, and a woman who is 45 and looks good tells you she is 35 ( or an 18 year old tells you she is 25 ), if you have made an emotional commitment, you are going to be hurt by the lie.

I do not see how this is any different than lying about smoking. In the scenario about lying about a person's age, I think the person who was lied to is negatively affected because their trust has been abused. If a man or woman wants a partner who is in an age range, weight range, attractiveness range, or smoker/nonsmoker, they have that right.

Posted by: Pin Boy

99% of the services do not have a option for "trying to quit". Also smoking is blown way out of proportion in both health risk and most especially second hand smoke which is all propaganda for the sheep to listen too.

Not sure if I'm using the quotation thing correctly, but....the first paragraph was posted by Bordric.

Don't have any scientific data to quote, but a pretty compelling anecdote about the effects of second hand smoke....

My sister in law smoked in the house in front of my nephew for the first 7-8 years of his life and during that time, he developed asthma and had a few attacks that were very unpleasant. She has quit smoking and the boy has not had an attack since or reported any difficulties breathing. He is now 12.

You GOTTA be kiddin' to think that breathing second hand smoke is not harmful! With all of the poisons that are contained in a cigarette??? C'mon man.

Posted by: Bordric

Quote:

Originally posted by Pin Boy
99% of the services do not have a option for "trying to quit". Also smoking is blown way out of proportion in both health risk and most especially second hand smoke which is all propaganda for the sheep to listen too.

Not sure if I'm using the quotation thing correctly, but....the first paragraph was posted by Bordric.

Don't have any scientific data to quote, but a pretty compelling anecdote about the effects of second hand smoke....

My sister in law smoked in the house in front of my nephew for the first 7-8 years of his life and during that time, he developed asthma and had a few attacks that were very unpleasant. She has quit smoking and the boy has not had an attack since or reported any difficulties breathing. He is now 12.

You GOTTA be kiddin' to think that breathing second hand smoke is not harmful! With all of the poisons that are contained in a cigarette??? C'mon man.

I did not say it was not harmful I said it was blown out of proportion.

Posted by: Arnold_2

Hello Campanula!

This is a terrible story, I feel very bad for you. I don't like lies, or omission, yet, when you look at my profile at RMP, you will find many omissions, and the "facts" I provided, could also just be lies as well.

I think, that in the scenario of this forum, it is all right for me to lie about who I am, or even omit certain information. Most people do it like that.

Does this mean, most of us are bad people? No! We do this, to protect our identities.

When you are trying to establish a genuine relationship with someone, there should be initial trust present, that each person involved tells the truth about themselves. This means, from my point of view, if you lied in the profile, you should address this matter in your first letter, because, if you don't, you are just a liar.

I find your story very interesting, because it shows that women are being scammed as well. You should post this story in the scam section of this site.

I think, there must be more such stories of Russian Women being scammed for example, what about guys, who make promises that they don't keep, or misrepresentation of the circumstances in the foreign husband's native country?

In any case, I am very sorry to hear that your trust was betrayed in this manner!

--Arnold

Posted by: alchymie

Hah, there isn't a woman on the planet who won't deceive a man if it suits her purpose.

Posted by: Peter Burns

Hello Campanula !

I told my pen pal freind I was 40 when I was writing to her ( I am now 41 )-this was absoloutely truthful - why lie ? Ill get found out eventually . But she told me in one letter that she was 28 ... When we met 2 months ago she showed me her familly photographs and there was one thought in my mind ... the woman in the photograph album looked alot younger . As soon as I thought this - Id make a bad poker player - it must have shown on my face

- because her immediate reaction was to tell me she was 30. Now , the worry was this - why lie over 2 years ? Unless , there is another reason to lie . Was her real age closer to mine ? This would not have made a big issue but it was the willingness to lie that worried me because I had not lied to her and she had told me that for her honesty was all important in a relationship ( this is what attracted me to her ).
It left a lingering and knawing doubt and I have still not written to her to ask why she " lied " - maybe age is not important . But
for me it was something I was concerned about because if she was willing to lie about onething it would be easy to lie about other things and eventually the whole house would collapse .

Posted by: campanula

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Burns
Hello Campanula !

Now , the worry was this - why lie over 2 years ? Unless , there is another reason to lie .
It left a lingering and knawing doubt and I have still not written to her to ask why she " lied " - maybe age is not important . But
for me it was something I was concerned about because if she was willing to lie about onething it would be easy to lie about other things and eventually the whole house would collapse .

Hello, Peter.

That is what I’ve been thinking about. Why lie over 2 years? I do not see any reasons to lie, because the truth will be discovered sooner or later.
And if you are absolutely truthful then even a “small” lie could make a big crack in your relationships. And as for me if your partner has the willingness to lie then you’ll become suspicious and mistrustful very soon. Even if she’d tell you she spent the whole day shopping you’d think that it could be not truth. Would be this a real family? Even more than that, this could ruin your next relationships with another, more honest person.

But as I can see from this thread that “small” liars are feeling not bad in our world. (Actually I’m not surprised about this).

Anyway, thank you all for sharing your thoughts with me.

Posted by: Arnold_2

I am sorry, but I think there is some misunderstanding here.
I think that it lies in the definition. Most people admit openly to having been guilty of telling small lies, or in other words inconsequential lies. Lies that infact don't harm anyone, even when it is uncovered that the person who told this type of lie was not truthful. An example would be, you are late for work, because you overslept due to having partied all night long. Your boss asks you, why you are late, and you answer, that the bus got stuck in traffic, to safe face. This is the kind of lie everyone was referring to, when they talked about small lies.

Now, Campanula, what you are talking about should be defined as a "dumb" lie, because this type of a lie can always be verified. People who lie about age, height, weight, their looks, income, level of education, and so on are dumb persons, because they don't seem to realize that it is impossible to conceal the truth about these matters.

I am sure that pretty much everybody on this site will agree with me, that these type of lies (dumb lies that is) are not acceptable, and in fact constitute a relationship deal-breaker.

Posted by: wchever

"That is what I’ve been thinking about. Why lie over 2 years?"

Just last December I posted my first internet profile on Yahoo. Two weeks later a woman and I went on a date and she informed me that she had lied about her age because most mens' searches eliminated women that were over 55, so she put that she was 53.

When I joined here yesterday, I looked through a few photo personals to figure out where I was, and also noticed quite a few of the ladies, even ones too young for me, had put 50 as their cutoff point. I'm 52 (and one half.)

Nevertheless, I would never consider lying to a woman after putting down my intentions as "serious relationship or marriage." It just doesn't seem like a sensible way to start.

But hey, I can see someone else doing it, particularly some overweight ex-jock who thinks he can still fit his college jeans.

And yet, I'm not so sure I would take a lie all that seriously from a woman if it didn't really matter. I can still recall walking into the bathroom when I was dating one girl to find her with the peroxide. Her exclamation? "You caught me!"

I didn't really care she had light streaks in her hair...

Cheers!

Posted by: lechef

Quote:

Originally posted by Keystone
Anyway back to the point. I do not think it is really comparable to lie about something like smoking with cheating.

I strongly disagree with you there. What she is doing is lying to you regarding her health and welfare for the future. Cigarettes kill and cause cancer among other diseases. So this is the reason I say lying is lying no matter way you slice it. lying about cheating is a trust issue and lying about smoking is a health issue for her and you.

Posted by: Pawel_PL.USA

Yup, Eastern Europeans smoke a lot more than Americans. It's true, what else can I say ?

Posted by: smoker

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THIS WILL BE YOUR ONLY WARNING. ANOTHER VIOLATION SUCH AS THIS AND YOU WILL BE BANNED!

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Posted by: JamesB

Ahh yes another good point,Liuda told me she never smoked but when out she has just one so i guess i can forgive her as i don,t smoke.