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Making the RMP a better place
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Posted by: waiting123

Here recently there has been a few changes to the dynamics, and I have taken a lot of heat from some members, and some former members...and former..former members, if that gives you any idea the responses I have recently received. So anyways, past that, there has been a lot of discussions in different threads abou making things better, and trying to move forward and stop taking these big steps backwards. So Lets here from you... the members on how or what you would like. Please keep this a civil thread, and make reccomendations and contructive comments. What I think I will try to do, is address most points in this single post. You see, the thing here is, me, the other mods, and admin, can only do so much... We need to have the help of the members as well. Please leave the GTR, BOB, and Markgm situation out of this thread. That issue has been discussed and dealt with at length.

So lets start discussing.

One recco was that mods should have 2 different sign ons, myself and K both strongly disagreed with this, just on the pure basis of that really does not solve a problem, if anything it creates a worse one. I log onto my non admin name, call you an ass, and then propmtly log into my admin name and warn myself :-). No but seriously, this would allow a mod not to be held to the standard we ask of them. I am able now to pull up a mod edit screen, if a mod is posting under multiple names, there is a severe lack of control and accountability.
Another was the mods and admin should dedicate more time, well I think all of you who know me, wish I could. And I know that the other mods and admin wished the same, but we do this as a service and to hopefully provide a little help along the way. We all have full time jobs (except Khashyar, he seems to have more than that) and sometimes we do not have the time, or desire to log on to the internet and forum. We also all have familes and between family and work, and traveling... you can only imagine it can be time consuming.
Also I made a decision long ago and asked that all the mods abide by it, I asked that all mods bite there tongue and watch the wording of some of there posts..especially in debates. I wished there could be a time when the mods could be in a debate with members and when the member gets made, call foul that the mod over stepped his boundry, or vice versa.

Posted by: goforit

Simple. Provide a foolproof formula for meeting a FSU woman, marrying her, and living happily ever after.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

I would think the membership knows exactly what I feel needs to happen on the RMP as I have said it often. I will keep out of this know unless I am brought back into it.

Posted by: Jerico

Okay this is just my opinion but the number one problem here for me is all the political correctness issues here these days.
Dont offend him ,dont say that crap.
This is why this place has grown somewhat stagnant IMO.
Now I will be the first to say that i dont always agree with other members here or mods.

However i respect their opinions as each person has his own opinion about whatever.
Actually as most here probably know i am already married to A Russian woman. I dont need to be here , heh.
I try to give advice the best i can although nobody probably listens, lol.
Thats OK

I admit in the begining i was one of those guys praising how great they are over AM.
Being married for over 3 years now i can say they are all women!!!
Remember that. Sure they come from Russia or wherever but the point is dont expect to find a peasant girl in Russia ,hehe.

They are all familiar with Western ways.
Would i do it again? You bet. Its an adventure worth taking for the few who will take it.

Basically i hang around here a little bit just because people here to me are adventurers.
I mean how many people you know go to another country to meet another woman for possible marriage? Not many i suspect. We are a minority IMO.
This is why i still come here to here of the storys of others. Its interesting what others opinions on topics other than RM are too!!!
Yet these topics seem to get shut down quickly. To bad imo.

Anyway more chat and less modding would be great IMO.
I have seen topics in the past shut down for just plain stupid reasons IMO.
Less modding would be good ,were all adults here ,i think

Just an opinion from someone whos been here for 5 years although i dont know why ,heh.
Jerry

Posted by: deccie

While Jerry has posted that the place is a little stagnant I would counter that is actually not unlike the whole FSU wife business. It is stagnating also.

I talk to guys who live in Russia and are involved in this even if it is on the periphery. (doing deliveries and other stuff) Universally they say that the number guys coming and the number of women willing to leave is decreasing. Perhaps that is because some of the myths of FSU women are being busted over time and the women are getting more choice at home. (And if you don't beleive there are myths associated with this enterprise read Jerry's post again!)

Note that I wrote "willing to leave" as a description for the women. Signing up for a marriage agency or even just wanting a husband/partner is not the same thing at all as being prepared to living in another country/culture.

Why do I post what I do here? I do tend to take the opposite point of view in any argument. What can I say, it is just a habit of mine. I also find that a lot of people do not question their own beleif systems about the world they live in. That really annoys the crap outta me because one thing I try to do is question my own beleifs relentlessly. Monothistic, simplistic views of the world SCARE ME. The older I get the more I find that i didn't know.. and the bedrock of my foundations was more like sand.. But I actually like that sand and in some ways it is more real than the imaginary bedrock i thought was there.

I have a problem with absolutes. I have a problem with Western women being bagged and I have a problem with FSU women being overtly praised without credence. People are people and there are good and bad people everywhere.

What has suprised me about RMP is a lack of recognition amongst it's members and the ridiculing by some every time it is raised when the someone attempts to seriously discuss the problems Russia and the FSU have. And they have MANY.

The rate of mental illness being just one. Phyisical violence in the home, alcoholism, drugs, HIV rates, pollution. The corruption. Even the long winter takes it's toll on people.. For example, many of those Babushka's you see on the streets were once smoking-hot-kova's. But life has taken it's toll on them.

What most saddened me about Russia in particular was coming to understand just how great they could be if only they could solve some of these issues.
However one can also celebrate just how much they HAVE acheived depsite the hurdles placed against them largely by their own governments!

These people are great people. Very intelligent and generally warm once you get to know them but anyone who doesn't think Russian's don't have a legacy to deal with is not acknowledging the history and TRAGEDY these people have had to endure. Like i wrote once before, to realy understand what is going on over there just look how one Russian reacts to another Russian.. With suspicion!

For my part I think RMP is far better off if we can dispel as many of the myths surrounding Russia and the FSU as possible.

Jerry's post stirred in me two reactions. People either generally shie away from debate and difference or they embrace it. Given that I embrace debate here It may suprise those here a lot but generally in relationships I avoid confrontation like the plague. I just don't like the feeling of fighting with someone I love. However, I also recognise sometimes there are verbal stouches you just have to have.

What I would like to see in RMP is that we actually focus more on Russia and Russians and FSU'ians (yes i know that is not a word!) and the relationships between us and them and less about the divisions between "us". It's not like there is a shortage of material with a change in President, the tensions between Russia and Georgia, Russia and the US.. etc etc etc..

I suggest that topics like the age difference thread be consigned to history and doubt any more can be written about them to change ANYONE's mind.

Posted by: I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

I do tend to take the opposite point of view in any argument.

What's wrong with that?

Counterpoint is one of the very cornerstones of getting to the facts.

I/O

Posted by: Chillidog

I am new to RMP and all forums (RMP was the first I joined) so I do not know much about the history or past situations, and really do not know much about the dynamics of authority that Mod's are given.

I had suggested that Mod's be able to post as "just member's" but with this I did not mean that they should have 2 different sign-in ablilities, and I know this would pose logisitical nightmares.
I think discussion and debate are good, difference of opinions can in many cases open a person's eyes and possibly view these same issues from a different perspective. What I find though is a tendency when a debate runs to long someone eventualy starts 'name calling' or 'slinging mud' for me this is when a Mod or Admin must step in and 'reprimand' the guilty parties, because no matter how much we state we are all adults on these forums, there are times when not everyone acts this way. What I think is difficult is if the Mod is participating in this debate for this person then to step in and use his authority to do any reprimanding. The guilty parties usually (and this could also be the Mod itself) are too upset and begin to use this authority against Mod. For me personally I have no problem with a person disagreeing with my POV and will always try to respect there opinions and them as a person.

solutions? I do not know, but would first say it is truly up to the membership to behave properly. maybe having Mod's act as police and members is asking too much from them, it is not a task I envy, I do not want to take away the opinions, experience that any of the Mod's bring to RMP but at times they are but in difficult situations when acting as officals and asking membership to watch their words and to respect members.
We all have lives Admins, Mods, members and we should all understand that none of us needs RMP, but we enjoy the atmosphere, the friends (real or internet), the stories and that we are all here for one reason to learn and help whenever possible.
I wish people like Jericho did have more time in their lives to spend with RMP because their experiences and knowledge are what we 'still searching' need to hear and sometimes be told we have it completely wrong!

Posted by: waiting123

The political correctness issue comes up quit a bit, I do not think we are over board on this. Can people give me examples of what they mean by this. We have guidlines about slander, harassement, and fighting. I sometimes think that when a member is corrected for saying something that comes accross as truly negative or degrading about a person or race, they instantly claim to PC.

This is a family forum and a somewhat educational forum. I in my opinion have to somewhat monitor how things are said. I review the mod edit log almost everyday and have not seen what I consider a PC correction.

If you are discussing the single issue of me removing the photo, I stand by that. There was a very strong and very negative conatation towards a religion. People debate religion and politics all the time on hear, and I nor the mods have jumped in and claimed not PC, a picture based on religion like this is different, especially when there is a derogatory message attached.

The mods are not here to be babysitters, we are just here to help enforce the guidlines. I am not saying the mods know everything, and we make mistakes just like you do.

So lets discuss how to make it better... lets discuss issues.... and please show me where we have come down on someone because of political correctness, I apparently am not understanding what you mean.

Posted by: sidney

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

Quote:

I do tend to take the opposite point of view in any argument.

I don't feel argument for the sake of argument is in anyway constructive.
As far as relationships with RW this also could be a deal breaker of always taking devils advocate to a discussion.
I'm not pushing the why can't we all just get along card. There are enough differences of opinion that there most always will be another way of looking at a subject. What I have a problem with is continuing to push a view when a it was made apparent a dozen post before.
I feel the mod's job is a thankless difficult one. I support their choice 99% of the time. There are times I feel they could have ended a problem faster but again it's only my view.
Sid

Posted by: AkMike

I realize that the admin and mods have varing amounts of time available to spend here but I've seem several absenses of a couple of weeks. I can't believe that Khashyar has abandonded this forum that he's spent so much time and effort to build and nurture so I suspect that he's watching in the "not logged in" state. I wish he would return and give some of his gentle direction.

These brush fires can be put out before the big flare up if they're attended to.

Posted by: waiting123

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkMike

I realize that the admin and mods have varing amounts of time available to spend here but I've seem several absenses of a couple of weeks. I can't believe that Khashyar has abandonded this forum that he's spent so much time and effort to build and nurture so I suspect that he's watching in the "not logged in" state. I wish he would return and give some of his gentle direction.

These brush fires can be put out before the big flare up if they're attended to.

Just as a side note, Khashyar has not abandoned this forum, it is still one of his great projects. K has been traveling the world. He is practically somewhere else (other than his house) every wekkend. His film has become a very quick success and he is needed at the openings and premiers.

Secondly, there has never been a time where there was no mod/admin on or available for weeks.

This thread is to give your thoughts on how to make things better, offer suggestions, not just critics.

Thanks!

Posted by: AkMike

Sorry I meant that I've seen some absenses of some of the powers that be for some time w/o them logging in.
My suggestion is that it needs more input and direction by mods and admin. So the brush fires (ie;continual arguements) can be put out in a timely manner. I know that the ignore button will quell it but that isn't the best option all the time.

Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidney

What I have a problem with is continuing to push a view when a it was made apparent a dozen post before.
I feel the mod's job is a thankless difficult one. I support their choice 99% of the time. There are times I feel they could have ended a problem faster but again it's only my view.
Sid

I agree with Sid, I have seen threads were a particular point of view was harped on and harped on (I do not mean the gun control thread) and a Mod did step in and state that this point was beaten to death and it should be backed off from, in some theads members backed off other threads they did not and things esculated.
I know that no-one wants to censor anyone's thoughts or opinions but I think at times there is a place for the "Time-out chair"
Maybe Admins and Mods need to sit down together and AGAIN come up with a "what will not be tolerated" "what will be the penalties for doing this actions" and make this a sticky post that is easy to see and find for all to refer to, but I am sure then some will abuse this and start using it as a sheild or a sword to whatever serves there purpose best.
Censorship is a tough decision and at times I think Mods do not want to act hastily (rightfully so)
I do not know what RMP was like back in the beginning when K was more active, I was not around then.
There will always be aruguments and disagreements that will not change, when these arguements begin to turn ugly is when a more active role by a Admin or Mod needs to come in to quell the uprising

Posted by: I/O

The Mods and Political Correctness seem to have been the two subjects most raised thus far in this thread.

The Mods: The team (Membership) isn't winning so critique the coach (Mods). How many times does this thought appear in many areas of sport and or life? I submit, too many. I suspect RMP is no different. Different moderation on RMP certainly may tidy up some threads, but IMO it won't fix the underlying issues. One of the issues, IMO is lack of population. With regard to partner seekers, it seems most potential members are looking for hard information on the site title which does include the word Russian and perhaps RMP is more of or has become more of a chat type forum and as such is perhaps, at the moment, not as attractive to new members as it might be.

One remedy might be a concerted effort to start new and relevant threads. A variety of discussion subjects can and often does take the focus off personalities. I also think that long threads tend to wander too far away from the subject, often resulting in side issues being brought in leading to personal conflicts. This is one area where perhaps Mods could adjust their approach and steer threads back to the subject at hand.

Political Correctness is often confused with personal sensitivities. I can see there is often a fine line, if any line between the two, however IMO one needs to put quite a number of their personal sensitivities aside if one is to participate long term in any forum.

Stagnation: I agree this is an issue with these forums and perhaps to an extent with the persuit of foreign partners as a whole. I suspect the numbers involved will reduce even further as some Western Economies soften even further, however on the ground evidence suggests to me there is still large numbers of people involved. Much larger numbers than ever make it near any forum. Numbers large enough to make most any forum a lively place. Maintaining subjects and posts which are relevant will creep them further up the various search engine ladders and as such should attract more membership..............fresh blood....now wouldn't that help?

I/O

Posted by: Jerico

Quote:

I review the mod edit log almost everyday and have not seen what I consider a PC correction.

Well i am not saying you did this Waiting but i remember things starting to go stagnant here when Two Tall told about his adventures in Russia.
It was a good read IMO and the fuss started when he talked about woman he met and posted INNOCENT photos of them with him in resturants and such.
I believe the mods took them all down so as not to " offend any of the woman pictured"
Let me say this, a picture is worth a lot more than just a story.
You really get into it more when somebody talks about a woman ( possible future wife) and you can put a picture to who he talks about.

IMO this site is mainly for guys looking for woman in the FSU, maybe i am wrong on this. pictures of the women people meet in other countries is part of the story IMO.

I think more stories of people that have gone to Russia, met a woman, married her.
More of those topics are good to give people confidence in this journey that we take.
They make good reads IMO.

Who knows, maybe I will start a topic of how i pursued a russian girl and married her. A lot of people have in the past and those were the hottest threads to read.

more success stories would be nice.
anyway not picking on you Waiting ,just so you know.
I think your one of the best here, you are like me in already marrying a Russian girl.
Jerry

Posted by: Texas Proud

Waiting....

I left back when because of the political correctness BS that was going on....

there was a JOKE section and some of the jokes were 'offensive' to some muslims.... I thought they were funny.... and would have also thought so if they were Christian or Jewish or any other religion.... but PC said.... NO to that one and yes to so many others that were worse...

As for the mods.... Yes... I saw that some were 'modding' on a thread they were writing.. (at least it appeared this way).... in another forum I am on this is a no no..... if you want to comment... go right ahead... but that means you are not a mod anymore for that thread.... unless of course all are involved....

This place has become pretty stagnant.... it looks like there are more threads from our Norway (or whatever language that is) group than our English group... and I have not idea if their threads are better ,,,,

Posted by: AkMike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

it looks like there are more threads from our Norway (or whatever language that is) group than our English group... and I have not idea if their threads are better ,,,,

I posted there once and was invited to leave.. I haven't bothered going back in as long as they are like that...

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

This place has become pretty stagnant.... it looks like there are more threads from our Norway (or whatever language that is) group than our English group...

It wasn't exactly difficult to work out it was the Danish forum. The big letters sorta gave it away.

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by waiting123

The political correctness issue comes up quit a bit, I do not think we are over board on this.

If you are discussing the single issue of me removing the photo, I stand by that. There was a very strong and very negative conatation towards a religion. People debate religion and politics all the time on hear, and I nor the mods have jumped in and claimed not PC, a picture based on religion like this is different, especially when there is a derogatory message attached.

So lets discuss how to make it better... lets discuss issues.... and please show me where we have come down on someone because of political correctness, I apparently am not understanding what you mean.

Waiting123, thanks for starting the thread, I think its a good idea.

There have not been as many closed threads in recent months, perhaps the perception of too much "PC" correctness is just that, a perception.

A couple of my thoughts...

1.) Waiting123, is it possible to have a "restricted area" of the forum, accessible only for members who choose to enter? What I was thinking of would be certain dedicated threads for jokes, politics, religion, sex or whatever, in which you would first be taken to a disclaimer page. for example "Warning, this is a jokes/humour page, some readers may find this offensive" and "if you may be offended do not enter"

I don't mean that it should be a place for racist or extremely offensive jokes etc., but for example I post a joke "The Pope was visiting the local brothel...."

And then a Catholic may be offended and the PM's to admin start flying.

In a similar fashion there have been threads that discuss religion, or politics, or being gay that might upset some people.

P.S. There were a fair number of members that did not like your decision to remove the photo. I understand why you did and why you had to do that. I would probably have done the same myself, as it is, as you say, a public forum. The problem I think is when the members get overly offended by your action. When you posted the comment, "sorry I think the photo was inappropriate, and has been removed" people should understand that is your decision and just move on, don't make too big an issue out of it. Again, that's why I think a dedicated "restricted" thread might be appropriate

2.) About akMike's comment about some Mods being away for a few weeks or months etc, we certainly understand that you all have real lives outside of the internet and is not in any way intended as a critisism.

My thought was this: What about having 3 or 4 of the senior members as "Monitors", if they are on the site more frequently they should be able to see whats going on daily, and intercede to prevent a small tiff from getting out of hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkMike

These brush fires can be put out before the big flare up if they're attended to.

If someone who is skilled in dealing with people and neutral steps in and "throws water on the fire" so to speak right away, perhaps a big blow-up can be prevented.

Also they might help to keep threads moving, and to provide advice to newcomers who are unfamiliar with the Forum.

Posted by: GoeastLJ

People like to hear what they want to hear and I think most RMPians avoid getting into deep debates. Just look at the threads that have proved popular. Threads on topics that try to initiate debates to try to get people to think are quickly shot down.

The other typics that prove popular are those that are contentious where people slug each other.

I think RMP would be a better place if we all believed that a debate does not have to have a winner and each of the members have something to contribute. We are not fighting for a finite size pie.

Posted by: GoeastLJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebird

A couple of my thoughts...

1.) Waiting123, is it possible to have a "restricted area" of the forum, accessible only for members who choose to enter? What I was thinking of would be certain dedicated threads for jokes, politics, religion, sex or whatever, in which you would first be taken to a disclaimer page. for example "Warning, this is a jokes/humour page, some readers may find this offensive" and "if you may be offended do not enter"

I don't mean that it should be a place for racist or extremely offensive jokes etc., but for example I post a joke "The Pope was visiting the local brothel...."

And then a Catholic may be offended and the PM's to admin start flying.

In a similar fashion there have been threads that discuss religion, or politics, or being gay that might upset some people.

What is incorrect is incorrect, regardless of where you put it. IMHO, you need another forum outside of RMP to air that sort of stuff. The days when people enjoyed themselves at the expense of another group are well and truly done. This would be a total misuse of 'disclaimer' if the intent was to offend.

Posted by: waiting123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerico

I believe the mods took them all down so as not to " offend any of the woman pictured"
...anyway not picking on you Waiting ,just so you know.
I think your one of the best here, you are like me in already marrying a Russian girl.
Jerry

If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, too_tall was just asked to blur the faces.. which he did. There are some legal reasons why posting pics like that on a forum type platform. We do have to be careful. The girl in the picture was not aware, nor did she give permission.

Thanks for your input Jerry.. yes you and I are in the same boat.. already hitched to our Beautiful Russian girls.

BTW, it is good to see you posting again.

Posted by: waiting123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

Waiting....

I left back when because of the political correctness BS that was going on....

there was a JOKE section and some of the jokes were 'offensive' to some muslims.... I thought they were funny.... and would have also thought so if they were Christian or Jewish or any other religion.... but PC said.... NO to that one and yes to so many others that were worse...

As for the mods.... Yes... I saw that some were 'modding' on a thread they were writing.. (at least it appeared this way).... in another forum I am on this is a no no..... if you want to comment... go right ahead... but that means you are not a mod anymore for that thread.... unless of course all are involved....

This place has become pretty stagnant.... it looks like there are more threads from our Norway (or whatever language that is) group than our English group... and I have not idea if their threads are better ,,,,

Yes I agree there has been some stagnantation... but that is the fault of all members to include mods. It is up to us to create new threads, it is up to us to share the process if we are currently going through it, it is up to us to share our experiences on travel, relationship, and so on.

It is not strictly a mod job to create new topics. If you want this forum to survive then we all have to participate in it's success.

The cartoon you are referencing was removed yes, and I stand by that decision. It was later reposted with a different context, and it was not edited.

You have to remember there are a lot of things said in the joke section, but we still have to be somewhat carfeul. I have always said a picture is worth a thousand words, and then to put text under it.... this is a deliberate attack on that religion... funny or not.

Like I said it my post, show me examples of polictical correctness. I already referred to that one, so you left because of one decision.... this forum, is not all about you or me, or any other individual. It is about all of us and about promoting our knowledge.

Posted by: waiting123

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebird

Some good ideas,but I am not sure the restricted area idea is good, this is still a family forum, and we need to allow full access without disclaimers to anyone. This could drive members away, or prevent new members from joinging.

Yes, I also agree, that some decisons I make are difficult and very unpopular, but when you have members start a thread about it, to critisize the decision, I think this is just trying to stir up trouble. I understand you disagree, say so and move on. There is really no reason to beat a dead horse.

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoeastLJ

Who draws the line at what is incorrect? Yes most of the humor pokes fun at someone. There are jokes here about Democrats, Republicans, Hillbillys, Priests etc. I would think that if the "jokes forum" were prefaced by a warning then someone performing a random search could not complain about being offended.

Posted by: waiting123

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebird

The issue is not telling the joke... to an extent, the issue is telling the joke, then placing an image to portray it. That is the issue

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by waiting123

Some good ideas, let me look into the "restricted area" upon my return from Russia.

Thanks. Also I would be interested to hear what the members think about us taking on a greater role to keep things moving & amicable.

If I see some ire rising in a thread I usually try to tell them "come on guys - keep the discussion civil or you will end up with the thread locked".

Sometimes someone will come back with "who made you a Mod?" but usually if you keep a neutral perspective they will take it without offence. it also helps if you can see booth poins of view in an argument.

What ideas do people have about this?

Another point that Waiting made about the members taking a greater role in promoting the site & preventing "Stagnation".

I also thought about some on-going threads, perhaps something like a weekly "review thread", where each week a member posts a description/review of a FSU museum/restaurant/location with some pictures.
For example post pics & discription of "Red square", next week it might be the waterfront at Yalta or the central Prospekt in Minsk etc. All members could take turns to contribute, and it would be changed every week. Perhaps a sticky thread? Then if people have questions for the poster etc.

Perhaps have a separate thread for "Restaurant of the week". Over time it would build up an interesting catalog of places.

Any thoughts?

Posted by: clark

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoeastLJ

People like to hear what they want to hear and I think most RMPians avoid getting into deep debates. Just look at the threads that have proved popular. Threads on topics that try to initiate debates to try to get people to think are quickly shot down.

The other typics that prove popular are those that are contentious where people slug each other.

I think RMP would be a better place if we all believed that a debate does not have to have a winner and each of the members have something to contribute. We are not fighting for a finite size pie.

Excellent point to which I agree. Debate is not the enemy but a tool to help an individual (any individual) decide the best course of action for this endeavor. Of which there are many facets from the beginning to end. It is information usually with very valid points.

At times the written word in the forum might appear to the inexperienced as an argument when it is only a disagreement. I realize everyone doesn't know or respect the fair rules of debate but therein lies a separate problem.
Debate is healthy and full of information and should be encouraged at the risk of offending.

The Rah Rah cheerleading approach is fraught with misinformation.

IMO

Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:

Originally Posted by waiting123

waiting123, I have a question about posting pictures did a search for rules regarding posting pictures here on RMP. For my information now (regarding past trips) and for future reference on hopefully future trips.
my questions would be just for clarification

1) if I have a picture of myself with a women I met on previous trips but our relationship is now over-would this be considered something that should not be posted
2) if a picture is taken let us say in Red Square and an unknown person is in the picture is this OK to post
3) or should we wait until we are married/engaged with a woman before posting her pictures.

I'm just not sure what would be considered the woman's consent or knowledege? for example we posed together to take a picture, she knows this picture will be shown to family/friends when I return home, she is also showing this picture to her family and friends, is this considered consent and knowledge?

I personally like when pictures accompany trip reports, could be scenery, sites, or the people they are meeting, like when they are standing in front of a point of interest like monument or church-whatever

again I am just trying to get a feel of what is acceptable and what is not, and certainly not trying to make any waves (not my style)

Posted by: EasyTarget

With regards to the stagnation issue, I think a big barrier to participation is having to post 3 times before you can search through the rest of the forums. I totally understand the rationale behind, to minimize the spam.
Maybe it could be reduced to one posting?
or can not post for the 1st 24 hours after signing up?

I don't think the user interface for vBulletin is that user friendly and it can be difficult to navigate through. I only use the "new posts" and "today's posts" buttons on the top. But if you are a new member all you will see is the messages in the new members section, not the whole forum.

Posted by: Jerico

This is a quote form OZGUY on another topic :

Quote:

Some people are sick and tired of topics being rehashed, I see a small problem with this in that alot of times these topics are rehashed by newbies. What do we do, tell them to search through the archives. Most newbies don't do that,they are her because something has pricked their interest in Russia, instead they start a thread and then it becomes a hot topic, arguments start and then without anyone knowing the newbie leaves without fanfare cause all they have seen is a fractured forum.

I think OZ hit it right on the money with this.
If you have been here for a few years pretty much everything has been answered already.
There is not much else to talk after a while.
Besides personal stories and such, jokes, etc.
I will be the first to admit that i am not the most computer savy guy.
If I was a newbie instead of looking through archives i would just ask because its easier to do is all.
So you cant blame them.

This is most likely why there is not many new threads.
This is no ones fault I believe.
Unfortunately i dont have an answer.
Jerry

Posted by: Texas Proud

There was more than one thing that made me leave... and it seems by your posts of what is 'offensive' and what is not IS the issue... I just don't see them as being offensive and you do... hence PC...

As for another reason that I left (and this is not having a double standard)... but at the time there were a lot of Aussie and NZers who were not being that nice to America.... yet... they were not stopped even though it was 'offensive' to others... a double standard...

As for stagnant.... it does appear to be that way.... 'back when'... there seemed to be many more.. who told their story and kept others up to date on their experiences...

Newbies would ask 'what do you think of this lady' etc... and most of the time the forum was fair in their evaluation.... I see very few doing this now...

Who knows... I still enjoy coming every once in awhile to see if there is something interesting.... if I got some time I will continue...

Posted by: GoeastLJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebird

No one draws the line, but as humans, we know what is likely to cause offense to someone. There are unwritten codes of conduct in certain cases and balanced individuals respect these.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebird

So what happens when one particular individual or group becomes the focus of those "jokes" far more than another? At some point there is a line that is crossed from being just a joke to being harrasment or being offensive. That line is different for different groups of people.

For example if RMP only published anti Republican or anti Bush jokes is that fair?
Is the reverse fair? Sometimes context is important. If you publish 99 anti jewish jokes and then publish one making fun of catholics who has the right to be upset? The Jew? or the Catholic for not getting equal "air time"?

Posted by: sidney

Quote:

For example if RMP only published anti Republican or anti Bush jokes is that fair?

Yes. What is wrong is to require the same amount for each candidate. Just not doable with free speech. We all have our favorites just because they aren't the same as your's shouldn't make a difference.
If you have a problem with too many Clinton jokes then just ignore them but don't try to legislate this.
Sid

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

OK, my name was mentioned so I am now going to say a few things.

1. This entire PC thing is absolute bollocks. I was reading the Gay Child thread today and I read some comments that basically said, "they can live their life how they want as long as they don't ram it down my throat". Well lets consider this for a tick what happens here when guys are saying "Western women are (insert appropriate insult here), RWs are (insert appropriate glorification comment here)" in quite few threads. All we get from some people is "this is the best thing since sliced bread" discussion, there is nothing new to it. There is no reason why to anything and the biases that come through are amazing. Seriously don't you guys realise the majority of you are the product of a western woman.

Quite a few of you get upset at discussions about your country yet you are so willing to bag others and claim any action against that is PC. I remember having a debate with a member who point blank come out and said Muslims are backward and in another thread said they are feudal. He didn't get chipped for it, why hmmmm is it because there were no Muslims here to say anything. In another thread discussing Russia (the primary reason of this forum btw) someone totally bags everything about Russia to which I replied "hmmmm, I wonder what your wife thinks about this" The problem isn't PC its a clear lack of respect for people who are considered different.

2. Chilli, just something to think about concerning the pic question. Most pics would be ok if there isn't anything in there that could cause offence. With regards to posting pics of people who you have met it is probably a good idea to ask them first as there may be some obscure reason they don't want their face on the net. Another thing is a safety concern. In Australia at least it is illegal to publish a pic of a minor (someone under 18) so if inadvertently there is a kid in a pic and the lady says yes I don't mind you may need to do some editing anyway.

3. The age debate, wow this gets me everytime. I have seen so many guys on this forum argue with women who are Russian and others who have lived in Russia/Ukraine for a lengthy period of time telling people that large age differences are not normal in the FSU. All of a sudden we get the he said she said thing happening. I'm not saying large age differences don't happen and neither do our female members. Even though we now have a few guys who are married to much younger RWs I would still trust an RW who is telling us it isn't the norm with experience of meeting thousands if not more other RWs in their lifetime than I would a bunch of guys who have talked to and met maybe a couple of hundred at the most.

4. I read the Danish forum also the other day. How many times does someone, a mod who clearly has the majorities respect, have to ask for outside interference to stop before people outside the Danish forum actually stop interfering? What an interesting situation that was.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

In Australia at least it is illegal to publish a pic of a minor (someone under 18) so if inadvertently there is a kid in a pic and the lady says yes I don't mind you may need to do some editing anyway.

.

When did that law come in Oz? While I am old and decrepit now when I was a minor my photo and lots of other kids photos used to appear in the local paper on a regular basis for various things and neither myself or my parents were ever asked permission.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidney

Interesting for you to quote "free speech" since we have established even "free speech" on RMP has "reasonable limits". It seems some targets are fair game and others are not.

It seems Americans are quite happy for politicians they don't personally like to be bagged in cartoons but criticise America (by non Americans) and they storm off in a howl of protest... seems to be something stinky about self interest there.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

In NSW about 8 years ago, federally about 5 years ago. It was brought in because there were a couple of cases of parents not being allowed to have contact with their kids and not even being allowed to know where they were. One day a kid in this situation was put in a Sydney paper, he was in the back of the shot, and his dad then traced where he was.

There was one other case I heard about where a kid and her mother moved to Qld I think it was from NSW and the girls pic was published and her father found out where she was.

I know slightly of track but it is pertinent.

Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

deccie,
debate is good, everyone does have different opinions and yes they should be expressed and debated, and to me, you are good at expressing other points of view, regardless of if you actually feel this way or not, doesn't matter, (sometimes I am smiling when I read your words and sometimes I am frowning) and yes there should be "free speech". I would say the "reasonable limits" should be at a person's discretion, but if someone does take offence with a statement and states their feelings, this person should be respected and whether we feel we did anything wrong, the polite and correct thing to do is just say "I'm sorry". I do not think you or anyone at RMP is trying to make enemies, just trying to have enjoyable discussions or arguments and that they be handled in an adult fashion.
I think it is natural for anyone to critize their own country when they feel things are wrong, but in the same nature to defend it, when a foriegner also attacks their country regardless if they agree with the foriegner or not. I do not think this is strickly an American trait.

Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidney

I believe Sid is a Republican and I am a Democrate. If Sid was to publish joke upon joke about Democrates should I take offence with this ---to me NO, I take it in the spirit it is given, he is not assulting me in particular and in a way he is also making fun at the whole Political arena.

I am Polish and as a child growing up, Polish jokes were very very popular, so with my last name I was made the brunt of a lot of these jokes, did it cause me some sort of minority/inferiority complex---again NO, in fact I found even as a child many quite funny, and enjoyed telling them myself. We are all in some way minorities, you can find some statistic or demographic that will put each and every one of us in a minority.

I think everyone needs to have thick skin and to poke fun at our own selves. enjoy life.
Also by the way I am a son of a WW, but my mother, and grandmothers views on life, attitudes towards family are very different from those of young American women now a days. Therefore if a man is not happy with the attitudes of today's western woman, this is not also a statement against his own mother or past generations. Many statements are because of the physical condition of women (many over weight) and though many find over weight woman attractive I will not fault a man who wants to find a slim attractive woman.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chillidog

(sometimes I am smiling when I read your words and sometimes I am frowning)

If that is your reaction - good for you.

The purpose of my writing is for people to be able to express and critically think about their own opinions. Question everything - take nothing for granted!

I'm not looking for people to agree with me or disagree. Just because someone thinks the same way I do (or disagrees) has nothing to do with the particular merits of an argument.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chillidog

I would say the "reasonable limits" should be at a person's discretion, but if someone does take offence with a statement and states their feelings, this person should be respected and whether we feel we did anything wrong, the polite and correct thing to do is just say "I'm sorry".

Why? You are assuming for one thing that by attacking an opinion I am attacking the person. Some people do feel that way but that is because they are reacting defensively.

Should not what is being argued come into play here?
An argument and opinion should be able to survive a rigorous debate.

An argument that is clearly a generalization as far as I am concerned SHOULD be challenged and shot down wherever possible. The poster may be entitled to personal respect but the opinion may not be worthy of it.

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

So what happens when one particular individual or group becomes the focus of those "jokes" far more than another? At some point there is a line that is crossed from being just a joke to being harrasment or being offensive. That line is different for different groups of people.

For example if RMP only published anti Republican or anti Bush jokes is that fair?
Is the reverse fair? Sometimes context is important. If you publish 99 anti jewish jokes and then publish one making fun of catholics who has the right to be upset? The Jew? or the Catholic for not getting equal "air time"?

Yes you are correct Deccie, but that's why I think it might be better for there to be a disclaimer on the jokes section, otherwise I fear that almost every joke could be considered offensive by someone. Do we have to slose down th e joke thread? if I have read the disclaimer on a "joke" thread and still choose to view it, then I can't complain that there are 99 "Bill & Monica" joke and only 1 "Bush" joke.

suppose I post a joke: "The Pope, a Rabbi & a Muslim Imam are eating at Burger King..." Then could a Jewish person complain that he is offended that the Rabbi is eating at a non-kosher place? Could a Muslim complain that he is offended that a holy Imam is eating with "infidels"? Almost any joke could offend someone.

Of course I am not suggesting that the "joke" thread allow racist posts, but I think some filter might be helpful. If you have a thin skin don't go in.

As an aside I don't much post on the Joke thread, but am trying to offer suggestions for those that feel things are becoming too "PC"

Posted by: JohnnyLaRue

Speaking as a noob here:

- Not searching for certain past topics is because the topic titles are not the same! In other words the title of the post does not match the topic. That and those that do end up getting hijacked with flame wars. (NOT all the time but there has been a few threads like that).

- Don't care about the jokes since I never go to the joke section.

- Most people here are nice and granted there are a few posters I don't care much for but thats common place for most forums I think.

- I have got my questioned answered to my satisfaction so no complaints there.

- I think someone mentioned stories. I'd like to share my experiences so far but unsure if A.) Anyone cares B.) If I'll get bashed on for posting it.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyLaRue

- I think someone mentioned stories. I'd like to share my experiences so far but unsure if A.) Anyone cares B.) If I'll get bashed on for posting it.

This is something to think about,

The RMP used to be a place where anyone and everyone could tell their stories, people would invite others to do so, now we have an atmosphere where some people are unsure if they even want to.

Now in wider scale. everyone has the right to make comment, its the comment that is often made that is the problem. If you feel you are willing to make a negative comment about a certain group in public you should be willing to have similar comment made about any group you are a part of. This is where PC is the problem, the people who are so willing to make comment are often the first to claim PC.

Posted by: EasyTarget

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoeastLJ

No one draws the line, but as humans, we know what is likely to cause offense to someone. There are unwritten codes of conduct in certain cases and balanced individuals respect these.

Not really. What is perfectly acceptable behavior to some, is really offensive to others. For example some people think it is ok to belch at the dinner table, others find it offensive.

To take the statement to the extreme...
You could post a statement like "The sun is hot."
Then you will get some people who will argue that the sun is cold, sun worshipers stating your making fun of their god, and the lunatics (moon worshipers) crying favoritism.

You can't please everyone.

Posted by: EasyTarget

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Quite a few of you get upset at discussions about your country yet you are so willing to bag others and claim any action against that is PC.

I would say it is a context issue, not a political correctness issue.

IF (hypothetical world now) you made a negative comment about USA's government or politics and a fellow American made the same comment; I would react differently. And I think a majority of people feel this way. One is the outsider commenting and one is the native commenting.

Not saying it is right or wrong. Just observing that xenophobic comments tend to be counter-productive.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

What's your definition of Xenophobia? Mine would be a condition of unwarranted fear or contempt for something that is different or foreign. So my discussion will revolve around that.

Ok discussing a context issue. Regardless of the fact it is a joke to some people other people will find things offensive. Knowingly making comment about, or placing a picture of, certain groups that is clearly going to be seen as a problem is not good form. Is the RMP an inclusive community? or is it exclusive? Are we going to bag people just because they are different? are we going to use things that are clearly linked to others just to look like were being funny? That's the context issue. I still see a problem with basic respect for others.

Everytime a discussion comes up about America it turns into a mud slinging event, everytime. Everytime I have been in a discussion about America there are Americans who state that they agree with what I am saying, yet everytime an American will just start complaining that they are being unfairly targeted or come out with a comment like, "your country has problems to" which no-one ever denies or they will bring up "facts" that are easily refuted. I'm not xenophic about American's I have family who live there, if you have a problem with people making comment about certain aspects of America and feel that is xenophobia then I would think that your definition of xenophobia is very different to mine.

Keeping with Xenophobia. Do you think placing a picture, even as a joke, that is clearly linked to a certain group twisting their way of life into something else is not contemptuous? What about comments that make them appear backward compared to the majorities group? Regardless of context if we go by the definition of xenophobia at the beginning of this post then the xenophobia that is most often shown in the RMP is towards groups that don't fit into mainstream American, Australian, or British society.

I have a couple more things I believe should be included in the discussion.
1. People shouldn't bring negativity from outside the RMP into the RMP. All that does is causes crap.
2. If you don't like a debate stay out of it, its really simple.
3. I know this will be unpopular with some but it needs to be said. If we have mods then they should be moderating discussions. Yeah I know everyone's human but lets be frank here, why have a position of mod if your not going to do it.

That's all I can think of atm.

Posted by: waiting123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chillidog

as long as there is knowledge to the girl that you are showing the pics, all is fine. As far as people in the background... no problem. The issue with the thread mentioned earlier is that there was 20 different girls and things... just do not want to cause any trouble.

But posting in general, pics is no problem

Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

I have a couple more things I believe should be included in the discussion.
1. People shouldn't bring negativity from outside the RMP into the RMP. All that does is causes crap.
2. If you don't like a debate stay out of it, its really simple.
3. I know this will be unpopular with some but it needs to be said. If we have mods then they should be moderating discussions. Yeah I know everyone's human but lets be frank here, why have a position of mod if your not going to do it.

I agree with discussions that should be allowed, where I see problems arise in discussions is when people go off tangents from the orgin of the thread or read more into a persons written words then what is actually stated. If a person does not start slinging mud and is respectful then there should be no problems, what also happens many times is the twisting of words to use that as fuel for arguments sake.
You are correct also regarding America, I think most people will get defensive about thier countries for good or bad (I would not consider this as being xenophobic). The way I look at it is like when I talk or have traveled to Russia, I do not tell the Russian this is what is wrong with your country, they will immedaitly take offence and get defensive, what I do is point out what I like about Russia or put a good spin on a bad subject. for example I was asked on my last trip what I thought about all the drunks in Russia and if we had drunks in the USA (she also stated she felt the whole world viewed Russia as nothing but drunks because of Yeltsin) my repley was not to point out that Russia has a problem with drunks but my exact words were "if someone wants to be a drunk they can be a drunk in any country they want not just Russia, and yes we do have drunks in the USA also"
Like you said if we repect each other as a person and respect their point of view no discussion or topic should be off limits. for me I know that not everyone will agree with my point of view, so I will state what I feel, discuss it with those the agree or disagree, but when I feel the discussion has run it's course I will exit and just let the others do what they please.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Good to see your awake Chilli ;-))) How's the knee? I know off topic but I thought I'd ask.

Now on topic. I do not see any country as being off limits when it comes to discussion on a forum. I think the key is to discuss it like adults and not to get into tit for tat my country is better than yours crap.I also think that generalisations are just another way to show how little people really know about the country they are discussing.

Your comment about discussing Russia with Russians in Russia doesn't fit this scenario very well simply because when in Rome do as Romans do. This is an internet forum, things get discussed on internet forums. If your trying to see about having a possible relationship with an RW and your in her country of course your not going to bag her country, you would be on your absolute best behaviour and would be trying to make a really big and lasting good impression on her. In other words your gonna be trying not to put your foot in it and kill the relationship aren't you.

This place is different in that there is the opportunity to discuss things with people from all over the world and from many different cultural backgrounds. I know it isn't like that but it has the opportunity to be like that.

Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Good to see your awake Chilli ;-))) How's the knee? I know off topic but I thought I'd ask.

Now on topic. I do not see any country as being off limits when it comes to discussion on a forum. I think the key is to discuss it like adults and not to get into tit for tat my country is better than yours crap.I also think that generalisations are just another way to show how little people really know about the country they are discussing.

Your comment about discussing Russia with Russians in Russia doesn't fit this scenario very well simply because when in Rome do as Romans do. This is an internet forum, things get discussed on internet forums. If your trying to see about having a possible relationship with an RW and your in her country of course your not going to bag her country, you would be on your absolute best behaviour and would be trying to make a really big and lasting good impression on her. In other words your gonna be trying not to put your foot in it and kill the relationship aren't you.

This place is different in that there is the opportunity to discuss things with people from all over the world and from many different cultural backgrounds. I know it isn't like that but it has the opportunity to be like that.

Knee is absolutely killing me right now, thanks for reminding me

as far as when in Rome do as the Romans do, or how I was with the lady in Russia, I guess this is just my nature and by this I mean that even if I live with a Russian woman 100 years I will still try to put a good spin on things, yes I will as I get to know her feel more comfortable in pointing out differences but I will always tread lightly on stateing something is wrong with her mother country. I guess I look at it as I know no country or person is perfect we/they all have flaws/faults, and as the saying goes "those who live in glass houses should be careful about throwing stones" I guess this is where I see the mud slinging, I may not agree with someone but I am not going to state their opinion is wrong, for good or bad not much of what I write will change how another feels, and this is where I feel points of view get beaten like a dead horse, sometimes people cannot agree to disagree.
there are others who can and will discuss diference of opinions for long times and handle it in an adult fashion, but I think this is rare, and the longer a discussion last the more chance tempers get heated, and I am not here to get pissed off or to piss anyone off. I think you and I (between us) have been able to do this very well, to discuss our diferences, view the others opinion with respect and then move on when necessary.
I do see your point about discussion, viewing everything from different view points. maybe even playing devil's advocate at times. Me I'm just a lover not a fighter (at least in words

)

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chillidog

I guess I look at it as I know no country or person is perfect we/they all have flaws/faults, and as the saying goes "those who live in glass houses should be careful about throwing stones" I guess this is where I see the mud slinging,

I agree totally, the thing with me is I will talk about my country and freely admit it has its faults.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chillidog

I think you and I (between us) have been able to do this very well, to discuss our diferences, view the others opinion with respect and then move on when necessary.
I do see your point about discussion, viewing everything from different view points. maybe even playing devil's advocate at times.

You and I get on well, and that's because we discuss things like adults.

Posted by: EasyTarget

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

Not saying it is right or wrong. Just observing that xenophobic comments tend to be counter-productive.

OGL: This comment wasn't directed at you, really it wasn't. There were a few comments about posts were members make disparaging remarks about American Women, Russia, Muslims, etc...

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Everytime a discussion comes up about America it turns into a mud slinging event, everytime. Everytime I have been in a discussion about America there are Americans who state that they agree with what I am saying, yet everytime an American will just start complaining that they are being unfairly targeted or come out with a comment like, "your country has problems to" which no-one ever denies or they will bring up "facts" that are easily refuted.

So, maybe it is time to give up on discussing USA with Americans?

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

I know your comment wasn't directed at me, I am just making it obvious what my thoughts on the matter are.

If it is time to give up discussing America with Americans then so be it, but if that's the case then some people need to understand its time to give up making comments about others to.

Posted by: AkMike

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

So, maybe it is time to give up on discussing USA with Americans?

And get the forum back on track discussing Russian, Ukrainian and other FSU women and relationships with them.
There would be less arguements about other topics that do not pertain to this forum.

edit; As a suggestion how about locking up threads that have nothing to do with the goal of this forum? IE: the "What if a child is gay" thread? WTF does that have to do with anything gay or lesbian Russian-Western Relationship?

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkMike

And get the forum back on track discussing Russian, Ukrainian and other FSU women and relationships with them.
There would be less arguements about other topics that do not pertain to this forum.

If that was to happen then many of the discussion section would need to be removed. As Khashyar himself set this forum up to discuss Russia/FSU states and not just RWs then I think it should be left as it was originally intended. The sheer number of different topics that we're able to be discussed here is one of the things that made it a great site. If you only want to discuss RWs then we will have to delete threads such as BBQ Oinks!!! and The PIT 2, and stifle all discussion to the topics of finding, dating, and marrying an FSUW.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkMike

And get the forum back on track discussing Russian, Ukrainian and other FSU women and relationships with them.

So we are going to exclude Western Women like Jill talking about her relationship with a man from the FSU?

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

It seems as though we have people who want a boys only club

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkMike

edit; As a suggestion how about locking up threads that have nothing to do with the goal of this forum? IE: the "What if a child is gay" thread? WTF does that have to do with anything gay or lesbian Russian-Western Relationship?

i guess Hillary or Obama jokes have EVERYTHING to do with the FSU..

Posted by: I/O

Quote:

The Russian Meeting Place: A place to meet people and talk about all things Russian... International Discussion Forum about Russia, Ukraine, Travel to Russia, Russian Culture, Russian Women, Brides and Marriage, History, Politics, Learn Russian Language, Music, Sports & Arts.

I/O

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Well now we have started to quote RMP things here's a few things to think about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khashyar

Hi Everyone,

I feel that our Moderators do a very good job at being as fair as humanly possible in Moderating threads.

I value their dedication in wanting the RMP to be a resource that benefits others.

Just so forum members know what we Moderators expect from ourselves, here are some guidelines for moderators:

1) They of course will lead by example, and will follow the forum guidelines about posting and etiquette.

2) Moderators will only edit posts that A) have SPAM or unauthorized advertising, or B) express a personal attack.

3) A Moderator can close a thread that is CLEARLY moving in an unproductive direction, where there are personal attacks, flames, or discussions that are WAY off topic (for example, where there is consistent arguing where the topic is not being discussed).

4) To help give everyone confidence in Moderators' objectivity, Moderators will NOT edit or close a thread in which they have posted. This means that only a Moderator who has NOT posted in a thread can edit or close that thread.

Khashyar

I think that spells out the obvious

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Here's another.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khashyar

Welcome everyone to the Russian Meeting Place discussion forum.

Our forums highlight a variety of topics, from Russian culture to Russian marriage and relationships to fiance issues and other subjects.

Message Board Guidelines and Rules (if you have any questions about these guidelines, please feel free to ask):

1) We strive for, in our forums, to have the freedom to fully and completely express our views, while at the same time treating others with respect. Through this kind of respect for others in our forum, we hope that we can all share different views and create a rich and stimulating environment for everyone.

2) The administrators of the forum respectfully ask forum users not to "flame" or be disrespectful to others. (This forum is a flame-free zone. ) No personal attacks are allowed in this forum, because it creates an unpleasant atmosphere here, and is counterproductive to an open and comfortable forum environment. Please also read our guidelines for "forum etiquette" here.

3) If you have a personal disagreement with someone in the forum, please discuss your personal disagreements and resolution of your conflicts in private messages ("PM"s) rather than expressing your personal conflict on the public forum.

4) Please do not curse in the forum...

5) I think that it is obvious, but... please do not post nude photos, or anything that would not be appropriate for this forum. If you have questions regarding this, please ask...

6) Please do not advertise any services or other websites on this forum without the permission of the administrator.

7) We have a special request regarding writing messages about other forums. So as to respect Lena's and my work and efforts in developing these particular areas of the website, we respectfully and kindly ask that you do not post links about other forums in this forum.

8) Users who post messages in the discussion forum do so with the understanding and acceptance that the forum administrators have the right to edit or delete the post at their discretion.

9) Please follow and respect the leadership of the forum moderators. Lena and I have personally selected each one of them, and we trust their judgement in making sure that threads follow the forum guidelines. Please contact Lena or me if you have a disagreement with any of the moderators about their leadership.

Thank you very much, and please contact us if you have any questions or comments.

I hope you enjoy being a part in our conversations and discussions...

Khashyar
forum etiquette

Bold emphasis added by me to highlight particular ideas. Some parts of the non highlighted points were deleted to save space and bandwidth.

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkMike

Actually RMP is about a lot more than FSU women and personal relaitonships with them. The forum's goal and mission are much broader than that and include discussions of all things Russian and FSU-related, including history, politics, the arts, language, and social issues. So the thread you reference is well within the range of RMP's focus. That's one of the things that makes RMP different from many of the other sites and forums out there, and Khashyar has been specific in his desire to create an inclusive atmosphere where everyone feels welcome to discuss topics of interest to them

As for the "PC" issue--I think the issue is that racist, xenophonic, etc jokes are inherently exclusive, and therefore conflict with Khashyar's vision for what this forum was meant to be. Just my 2 kopecks.

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

Actually RMP is about a lot more than FSU women and personal relaitonships with them.

As for the "PC" issue--I think the issue is that racist, xenophonic, etc jokes are inherently exclusive, and therefore conflict with Khashyar's vision for what this forum was meant to be. Just my 2 kopecks.

I would think that the RMP mostly involves people who are in a Western/FSU relationship or else are thinking about doing so. The RMP is like a "coffee house" where we all meet, sometimes the discussions are lighthearted and have nothing to do with relationships, sometimes the discussions are about politics, religion or whatever. I don't think there is anything wrong with this.

To be honest I don't think that the idea of threads/posts deleted for "PC" reasons has been a problem in the last few months. I think that there are more important ideas to discuss.

First let me post this to put things in perspective. I signed on the other morning, there were 75 people viewing - Me & 74 guests! I think we should remember that the vast majority of viewers are guests, and we should be thinking of ways to make the site more interesting, and to encourage people to come back & perhaps join up

I would be interested to hear from Jill, Inlove, Pinboy, and the other Mods as well as the other members about how all of the membership can participate to improve the site, and if anyone has any thoughts about my ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebird

Waiting123, thanks for starting the thread

1.) Waiting123, is it possible to have a "restricted area" of the forum, accessible only for members who choose to enter? What I was thinking of would be certain dedicated threads for jokes, politics, religion, sex or whatever, in which you would first be taken to a disclaimer page. for example "Warning, this is a jokes/humour page, some readers may find this offensive" and "if you may be offended do not enter"

I don't mean that it should be a place for racist or extremely offensive jokes etc.

In a similar fashion there have been threads that discuss religion, or politics, or being gay that might upset some people.

At a very minimum I would think that if there is a thread that is discussing a problem between members/moderators should be restricted to members only. {if this kind of thing cannot be dealt with in PM's} I don't think it's a good idea to have a first time visitor read a thread like that and think that's what the RMP is like. If I stumbled on your site as a first time viewer and I was reading about gripes, flaming, people quitting in protest etc. then I probably wouldn't come back. This is not a criticism of anyone that was involved in the recent events, there are times when problems need to be discussed, I just don't think that that should be the face we show to the public.

2.) About akMike's comment about some Mods being away for a few weeks or months etc, we certainly understand that you all have real lives outside of the internet and is not in any way intended as a critisism.

My thought was this: What about having 3 or 4 of the senior members as "Monitors", if they are on the site more frequently they should be able to see whats going on daily, and intercede to prevent a small tiff from getting out of hand.

If someone who is skilled in dealing with people and neutral steps in and "throws water on the fire" so to speak right away, perhaps a big blow-up can be prevented.

Also they might help to keep threads moving, and to provide advice to newcomers who are unfamiliar with the Forum. This does not have to be a big deal, just some of the vetran members taking a more active role in helping out and keeping things running smoothly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebird

Another point that Waiting made about the members taking a greater role in promoting the site & preventing "Stagnation".

3. I also thought about some on-going threads, perhaps something like a weekly "review thread", where each week a member posts a description/review of a FSU museum/restaurant/location with some pictures.
For example post pics & discription of "Red square", next week it might be the waterfront at Yalta or the central Prospekt in Minsk etc. All members could take turns to contribute, and it would be changed every week. Perhaps a sticky thread? Then if people have questions for the poster etc.

Perhaps have a separate thread for "Restaurant of the week". Over time it would build up an interesting catalog of places.

Any thoughts?

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Freebird its good that people are coming up with ideas about how to make the RMP a better place and I think you have some good ideas. I know you want the mods to answer but I would like to say a couple of things also. I agree with Waiting123s feelings about the restricted area, especially more so now that we have had comment by one of the primary joke section posters about limiting the RMP to relationship with FSUWs.

I like your idea about the review threads, but we already have reviews and also a product review section. Maybe the answer would be to place these in a place that is more noticeable, I don't know.

There will be no way everyone will be happy, my major concern was/is the major lack of respect for Khashyar's guidelines, that is why I quoted them in my previous posts. We join the RMP knowing what it is here for and what is expected of people who take part in the discussions contained in the RMP.

I was thinking last night about the continuous asking of the same questions and how to try to make things neater and maybe easier. A couple of forums I am on (Automotive, Computer etc) have threads that are called "The one stop (insert appropriate question here) thread" and lock questions that are similar from being asked again in a different thread and automatically put similar questions into that "One stop" thread. So say for example a newbie comes along and asks a question like "what's the best singles site to use to find an FSUW?" that question would automatically lead the newbie to the appropriate "One stop" thread and hopefully the person will read the thread before they post the exact same question as countless others have done already.

Another thing thing I was thinking of is the member status. 4x4 rejoined and I don't know how many off you have noticed it but he has apparently been banned again, I don't know why and I don't really care either as it is a judgement call by admin and all in all they are trying their best. Anyway I think it may be a good idea to maybe hide the member status so that the RMP isn't dragged into crap outside the RMP because of it, and yes it is happening. Furthermore in the thread he started two members replied, one with good wishes and the other with agro, if he is indeed a troll why feed it? if he isn't why do the agro thing?

Posted by: Texas Proud

Funny to hear that 4X4 was banned..... he was the reason I left.... how everybody (ok, not EVERYBODY).. was cowtowing to him and all the 'cr##' he was spewing and the mods seemed to take his side on almost everything... got my panties in a knot and I said 'pi$$' on this... I can live my life without this... I have found my gal... and I was doing what I needed to get her here...

To tell the truth... I don't think this is going to 'get better'... it will continue to be about the same or start to decline some more... once you get hitched and such, most seem to go... there are exceptions like AKMike... and I have seen a number of posts from Legal's wife.... but I think you will have to accept that unless there is a spike in new members that will breath life into the site... this is it...

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

Funny to hear that 4X4 was banned..... he was the reason I left.... how everybody (ok, not EVERYBODY).. was cowtowing to him and all the 'cr##' he was spewing and the mods seemed to take his side on almost everything... got my panties in a knot and I said 'pi$$' on this... I can live my life without this... I have found my gal... and I was doing what I needed to get her here...

Not being picky but I just want to get you to clarify something for me. Do you think that the people who were throwing crap back at 4x4 were doing the right thing? Its a simple yes or no answer.

There is way to much crap here and to start firing off agro so quickly, and if you read the Danish forum you might understand a bit better what I mean, when it has nothing at all to do with you isn't good. What are the mods supposed to do when "fine upstanding citizens" are also taking pot shots? As soon as they take a stand someone is going to be annoyed and call foul, then it continues and goes around in circles till admin are called in and then they are seen as "cowtowing" to someone. Would people have gotten so upset if Khashyar had done the exact same thing? I really doubt it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

To tell the truth... I don't think this is going to 'get better'... it will continue to be about the same or start to decline some more... once you get hitched and such, most seem to go... there are exceptions like AKMike... and I have seen a number of posts from Legal's wife.... but I think you will have to accept that unless there is a spike in new members that will breath life into the site... this is it...

Your right it wont get better but its not because membership has slowed down, that is probably a side effect of the crap that has been happening. Why would a newbie join this site if all they see is people going against the whole idea of the place? We need more women here but if I was a woman I wouldn't join cause the place is so sexist it isn't funny. This whole thing about "western women are crap so go and marry an RW so she can do everything for you" is demeaning to both groups.

Posted by: Pin Boy

if you choose to leave again, happy trails texas proud and good luck to you.

pb

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Freebird its good that people are coming up with ideas about how to make the RMP a better place and I think you have some good ideas. I know you want the mods to answer but I would like to say a couple of things also. I agree with Waiting123s feelings about the restricted area, especially more so now that we have had comment by one of the primary joke section posters about limiting the RMP to relationship with FSUWs.

Thanks for the input OzGuy. Agreed, perhaps "restricted" will not work with "joke" threads or whatever, it was just a thought expressed by quite a few that things were getting too "PC"

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

I like your idea about the review threads, but we already have reviews and also a product review section. Maybe the answer would be to place these in a place that is more noticeable, I don't know.

That was my feeling too, I feel that the review section is under-utilized, and the "weekly review" was just an idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

There will be no way everyone will be happy, my major concern was/is the major lack of respect for Khashyar's guidelines, that is why I quoted them in my previous posts. We join the RMP knowing what it is here for and what is expected of people who take part in the discussions contained in the RMP.

I agree with this

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

I was thinking last night about the continuous asking of the same questions and how to try to make things neater and maybe easier. A couple of forums I am on (Automotive, Computer etc) have threads that are called "The one stop (insert appropriate question here) thread" and lock questions that are similar from being asked again in a different thread and automatically put similar questions into that "One stop" thread. So say for example a newbie comes along and asks a question like "what's the best singles site to use to find an FSUW?" that question would automatically lead the newbie to the appropriate "One stop" thread and hopefully the person will read the thread before they post the exact same question as countless others have done already.

That's a very good idea too. However instead of locking the thread which might leave the new member hesitant to post for fear of posting in the wrong place, a moderator should attach the question to the appropriate thread and PM the new member - "Hi, welcome, I've attached your question to the "What is the best..." thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Another thing thing I was thinking of is the member status. 4x4 rejoined and I don't know how many off you have noticed it but he has apparently been banned again, I don't know why and I don't really care either as it is a judgement call by admin and all in all they are trying their best. Anyway I think it may be a good idea to maybe hide the member status so that the RMP isn't dragged into crap outside the RMP because of it, and yes it is happening. Furthermore in the thread he started two members replied, one with good wishes and the other with agro, if he is indeed a troll why feed it? if he isn't why do the agro thing?

Yes I did notice. Was he originally banned or did he quit? I also think that if someone is banned the Mods should put a short notice before locking the thread explaining "member XXX has been banned for violating the flaming policy" or whatever. It helps to show new members what is allowed and what will not be tolerated.

Posted by: EasyTarget

I feel this topic is very important and it got a little side tracked. I went through and tried to grab all the suggestions and all the critics, in an effort to try and re-focus our efforts on coming up with a good plan for improving RMP.

You might wonder why I am re-listing the critics, but when you read through them it seems like there are several common aspects that might help people come up with suggestions.

If I missed a suggestion -- It wasn't intentional. I did skip some of the critics since they may have been stated before. Also if you feel like I misquoted you (not the intention) because I only grabbed a snippet of what you said -- Just reply and rephrase it. Hoping this helps.

Critics:
5. number one problem here for me is all the political correctness issues here these days.
6. the place is a little stagnant
7. lack of recognition amongst it's members and the ridiculing by some every time it is raised when the someone attempts to seriously discuss the problems Russia and the FSU have.
8. RMP is far better off if we can dispel as many of the myths surrounding Russia and the FSU as possible.
12. up to the membership to behave properly.
13. I don't feel argument for the sake of