How many trips did you make to the FSU before you found "THE ONE" & married her? - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

	The Russian Meeting Place: A place to meet people and talk about all things Russian... International Discussions about Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Travel, Music, Russian News, Ukrainian culture, Belarusian Dating, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, Kiev and other intelligent topics about life in the former Soviet Union.

Pages: 1

How many trips did you make to the FSU before you found "THE ONE" & married her?
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: royalpalace774

Hi guys,
How many trips have you made to the fsu before you found "THE ONE" and married her or you are about to marry her?

Just curious. I have made 5 trips so far. Had a k1 with the 2nd women that I went to see 2 times and that ended after 1 year when she sent me an email and ended it.

My last 2 trips to Odessa to see the same women who also was not "THE ONE"

I am going in the summer on trip number 6.

I don't know how many more I have I me. I hope this next one is good. But it sure is hard to be optimistic when 5 trips have not ended in success. They were all good times even when I knew I was going no where with whatever women I was with.

I learned alot and I also had great experiences going there.

I guess it's like throwing darts. You got to keep throwing them to see if you can eventually hit the bullseye. But I really don't know how many more of these trips I have in me?

Posted by: I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalpalace774

You got to keep throwing them to see if you can eventually hit the bullseye.

Hitting the target is not a "Given", no matter how many times you try if your "Aim" is off. A "Sniper's" patience is needed in this game. If the quarry isn't squarely in the "Cross Hairs", don't pull the trigger.

I don't know how many more trips up there I have in me either, but my wife seems to think it is a goodly number.

I/O

Posted by: GoingToRussia

I only took 1 trip. We decided to marry between the 1st and 2nd trip. We were married 9 months after 1st corresponding and 5 months after meeting the 1st time. Of course that marriage ended so maybe it shouldn't be counted.

The 2nd time also took 1 trip but we aren't married yet but it should happen in June. I 1st corresponded with her in February 07 and met for the first time in April 07. I have been speaking and seeing her everyday on Skype since May 07, missed a few days but then spoke by phone. The last time we were together was August 31st 2008 in Bulgaria. We spent 2 GREAT weeks together and saw each other at our worst and best. We were both sick and took care of each other.

If you want to increase your odds of finding a FSU bride, this is my theroy which seems to work for me, forget Russian women and women from the big cities or resort cities of the Ukraine. I have found the women from Moldova, Belarus, and Uzbekistan are much more honest and open toward me and to a foreign life. Also don't meet women more then 10 years younger.

Now I'm not saying there aren't great women in Moscow or Kiev because I'm sure there are ... but increasing your odds and making it easier to find a "serious" women is the meaning behind my theory. It seems we have had many failed attempts in the last year or so and they all fall into categories I just mentioned. I wish everyone the best of luck in finding their special someone.

I think you can find "success" in Sumy Ukraine RP. It has a population of less then 300,000, not big by FSU standards.

Okay guys, I opened myself up on this one ... start throwing stones!

Posted by: Seaview

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

If you want to increase your odds of finding a FSU bride, this is my theroy which seems to work for me, forget Russian women and women from the big cities or resort cities of the Ukraine. I have found the women from Moldova, Belarus, and Uzbekistan are much more honest and open toward me and to a foreign life. Also don't meet women more then 10 years younger.

Very nice of you, GTR! What a piece of advice!

Posted by: GoingToRussia

You are an exception Seaview, I did say there were some good ones left in Russia!

Another exception is Ms Smarty Pants from Samara. She was a guiding influence in my quest to meet FSU women. She no longer posts and I do
miss her.

I also met a wonderful woman from Kharkov! We became friends and I helped her find an American husband. She has a K-1 pending.

Next "stone" please!

Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

If you want to increase your odds of finding a FSU bride, this is my theroy which seems to work for me, forget Russian women and women from the big cities or resort cities of the Ukraine. I have found the women from Moldova, Belarus, and Uzbekistan are much more honest and open toward me and to a foreign life. Also don't meet women more then 10 years younger.

Okay guys, I opened myself up on this one ... start throwing stones!

Maybe I should not post here because I am like RP here, I have not yet found my "one" my next trip will be my 3rd. Like RP (I think, my first trip in 2006) I fell in love and started a K1 Visa, but it did not get to the to the filing process (this is where I think RP and I are different).
What I want to say is I do not agree with GTR on "forget Russian Women" I think Russia is and will continue to be a very good place to search, I do agree with GTR on "avoiding the BIG CITIES" like Moscow, St Peterburg, Kiev and even Odessa (my 2 kopecks for you RP

), and look to smaller more rural areas, and also agree with GTR in "age" this is very much an endeavor that is very 'hit or miss' because of the individual personalities of both involved, so I beleive it is best to always try to stack the odds in your favour, hence looking into smaller towns and also the odds in any relationship are best when the age between a man and a woman are 10 years or less.
Because of my past trip failures, before I again started writing/searching I did a lot of soul searching, trying to understand what I was truly looking for (before there was a certain part of the anatomy that acted like a gieger counter and would point to where ever the wind was blowing

and it is now my hope (I feel those who have succeeded knew best what they were looking for) that my next trip I will be to meet the 'one' because I have given myself my best odds and chance at success.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

I'm glad you understood my post about increasing your odds Chillidog. That is the meaning behind my post. Yes you can find serious and good women in the big cities of Ukraine and in Russia ... it just seems to be more difficult. I know a wonderful girl from St. Petersburg but she has been in the USA for 1.5 years.

Posted by: dagpop

I only had one trip too. I knew she was the "one".

Posted by: dagpop

Chilli, you need to post on the "GLOW" web site. There are some hot mamas for your choosing. You won't regret it.

Posted by: Raspberry

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

I'm glad you understood my post about increasing your odds Chillidog. That is the meaning behind my post. Yes you can find serious and good women in the big cities of Ukraine and in Russia ... it just seems to be more difficult. I know a wonderful girl from St. Petersburg but she has been in the USA for 1.5 years.

St. Petersburg is a particularly tough place to find a good Russian woman. This is, in part, due to a better percentage of decent men than most FSU cities. Yes, there are cheaters, drunks, etc. in St. Petersburg, but far less,
percentage-wise, than in Moscow, Kiev, Donetsk, etc.....

If you haven't noticed yet, there are a lot of St. Petersburg girls on marriage sites--after all, the city is big. But, if you take the number of girls on sites vs. the population of the city, the percentage is less than most.

Posted by: Raspberry

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

For the most part, I would have to agree with you, GTR. The secondary cities--though they are still big, are the best places. I haven't had much luck corresponding with Moscow or Kiev women.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

I think you can find "success" in Sumy Ukraine RP. It has a population of less then 300,000, not big by FSU standards.

Funny that you mentioned it. This will be my first stop on the upcoming trip.
And I've been correspoding with a girl there that's over 10 years younger than me.

Posted by: I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

forget Russian women and women from the big cities or resort cities of the Ukraine.

Quote:

I have found the women from Moldova, Belarus, and Uzbekistan are much more honest and open toward me and to a foreign life.

And..........those areas are a lot poorer too. Figure it out for yourself. If the man is up to the mark, the big cities are not out of his league. Personally, I wouldn't be real keen to try to discern the genuine for the non in the economic backwaters.

As for openness and honesty, I've had a few associations over the years from Kishinev to Vladivostok and there isn't 3 cents of difference between the peoples when compared on the same economic plain. The biggest difference in attitude I have seen is the difference between the haves and the have nots.

I/O

Posted by: GoingToRussia

I know you haven't been around the RMP board for a while I/O but ALL the failed Spousal and Fiancee visa have been from Russia and the big/resort cities of the Ukraine ... YES ALL!!! There have been many success stories from small cities in the Ukraine, Moldova, and Uzbekistan. Just basing a theory on past observations and experiences. Yes more then a year ago things were different and all FSU women from FSU cities were a good bet.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

This is exactly the sort of advice I rail against, because almost invariably I see it comming from guys who have had a bad experience in one of the areas. Sometimes the man made a foolish decision and to come out and condemn given areas on that basis is pretty low IMO.

You just rail against things that you disagree with. Maybe if you looked at something from other peoples POV then you would understand it better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

Wow, what a value judgement. What you would personally do may be very different to what others would personally do. I am very curious as to what mark a man should be up to? Should it be a mark where he respects others?or maybe your talking about how much money he has? I think you need to clarify some of your statements because right now, to me at least, it looks like your saying that only people like you fit what RWs want and only the pnes in cities are worth anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

As for openness and honesty, I've had a few associations over the years from Kishinev to Vladivostok and there isn't 3 cents of difference between the peoples when compared on the same economic plain. The biggest difference in attitude I have seen is the difference between the haves and the have nots.

I/O

Here again you are talking about economics. What value is someone with money compared to someone without? I don't care about 3 cents difference, I care about the person and what TYPE of person they are, how much money they have is neither here nor there, and that would be the same for the majority of guys here.

Posted by: clark

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

You like being rude to others don't you? For some people the big cities are not go, for others they are. What is "whacked out" is arrogant people who think they know it all and are rude to others when they disagree with them.

You just rail against things that you disagree with. Maybe if you looked at something from other peoples POV then you would understand it better.

Wow, what a value judgement. What you would personally do may be very different to what others would personally do. I am very curious as to what mark a man should be up to? Should it be a mark where he respects others?or maybe your talking about how much money he has? I think you need to clarify some of your statements because right now, to me at least, it looks like your saying that only people like you fit what RWs want and only the pnes in cities are worth anything.

Here again you are talking about economics. What value is someone with money compared to someone without? I don't care about 3 cents difference, I care about the person and what TYPE of person they are, how much money they have is neither here nor there, and that would be the same for the majority of guys here.

I don't see what got your panties in a wad from I/O's post. It appears to me to be excellent advice and nothing "rude" about it. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of honest and sincere women in the metro cites and Russia if one is "up to the mark". I took this as meaning a man functionally able to woo a woman, any woman whether she be from FSU or not. The idea that one cannot find a good woman in these places is without a doubt whacked out. Excellent choice of words.

GTR's advice of increasing chances or odds in the other places may have some merit but I wouldn't concede that point just yet. It would appear that ones chances of attracting a GCG or a GTG in these areas would be increased as well.

The point that women are women regardless of their culture continues to be overlooked and that is the jest I got from I/O's point. Stereo typing by city or region is very whacked out IMHO

Posted by: Raspberry

Quote:

Originally Posted by clark

The point that women are women regardless of their culture continues to be overlooked and that is the jest I got from I/O's point. Stereo typing by city or region is very whacked out IMHO

Speaking of regional stereotypes, anyone ever find any good girls in Lugansk?

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by clark

The point that women are women regardless of their culture continues to be overlooked and that is the jest I got from I/O's point. Stereo typing by city or region is very whacked out IMHO

But according to the members of this forum ... this isn't true. So nothing I said is "whacked out".

http://russianmeetingplace.com/foru...ead.php?t=18593

So let's get back to the question .... how many trips did you take to the FSU before you knew she was "the one"? Sorry for the off topic comments RP.

Posted by: clark

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

Because someone starts a thread and it turns into a circle jerk on the ills of some AW does not in anyway form any kind or basis of fact. To infer that it does is whacked. I suppose for the socially inept, the idea that one could go to the places you mention and pick women like fruit from a tree is somehow stimulating but does not make it true. I/O was correct and called you out on it but, as usual, you get defensive and offer zero as proof. A thread on the forum based solely on opinion does not back up your statement GTR. Do you have anything else?

Yes, I do personally have a special attraction to honest sincere Russian women. But I have also have had an attraction to honest sincere AW, come to think of it, some other honest and sincere other nationalities of women as well. So far the RW in my life I met on the first trip and at this point she is the "one". I have no crystal ball so I won't attempt to predict the future. I did all my "qualifying" before making the first trip and that has served me well. But maybe I just got lucky, I dunno. As it happens she is from a bigger city inside Russia.

Posted by: JohnnyLaRue

I would add that it has little to do where the person lives but where they grew up.

Posted by: clark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raspberry

Speaking of regional stereotypes, anyone ever find any good girls in Lugansk?

Actually yes. Also, in Yoshkar Ola. There are as many successes as failures and scams. I have communicated with some but they were not for me. All the more reason why stereo-typing from a city, region or country is a bad idea and very misleading.

Posted by: I/O

OZGuy: GTR has his opinon based on what he knows and sees, I have another based on what I know and see. The difference in those opinons is the value of places like this. Let the reader decide what suits him, but let them see there is more than one view.

Up to the mark FWIW is being a good enough person to attract the best. Why go all that way and seek less than the best. (Nothing whatsoever to do with money) In some cases the best can be found in the provinces and in some cases they will be found in the major cities.

OZ, like it or not, economics played a big part in this whole process getting started years back. Whether you or I like to admit it, the number one issue for the guy seeking a partner in the East is to figure if she is leaving for him or if she is leaving for lifestyle upgrade. Higher chance of it being upgrade if the home situation is a poor one.

GTR, I could point you to 5 women from Moscow, St P and Kiev who have arrived to their Fiancee's in the USA within the last 2 weeks, so all that says is that it is far from cut and dried.

Below is a list of some of the bigger cites in Russia and Ukrainian cities. I fail to see the sense in walking past half the population of these few (50 million or more women) as a mandatory proceedure because they are not all spoiled brats.

Back to the question at the start: I was 7 times in the FSU before I first met my now wife. I am tired of counting the trips since, 5 IIRC. She had 3 here in that time also. The worst is yet to come.

I/O

TOTAL POPULATION OF LISTED CITIES (2006) 108,944,402

UKRAINE CITIES 47,574,586

RUSSIAN CITIES 61,369,816

Moskva [Moscow] 10,382,754
Sankt-Peterburg (Leningrad) [St. Petersburg] 4,661,219
Novosibirsk 1,425,508
Ni�nij Novgorod (Gor'kij) [Nizhniy Novgorod] {Niznij Novgorod} 1,311,252
Jekaterinburg (Sverdlovsk) [Yekaterinburg] 1,293,537
Samara (Kujby�ev) 1,157,880
Omsk 1,156,849
Kazan' [Kazan] {Kazan} 1,105,289
Čel'abinsk [Chelyabinsk] {Celabinsk} 1,104,648
Rostov-na-Donu 1,068,267
Ufa 1,042,437
Volgograd 1,011,417
Perm' [Perm] {Perm} 1,001,653
Krasnojarsk [Krasnoyarsk] 909,341
Saratov 873,055
Vorone� [Voronezh] {Voronez} 848,752
Toljatti [Tolyatti] 702,879
Krasnodar 646,175
Uljanovsk (Simbirsk) [Ulyanovsk] 635,947
I�evsk (Ustinov) [Izhevsk] {Izevsk} 632,140
Jaroslavl' [Yaroslavl] {Jaroslavl} 613,088
Barnaul 600,749
Vladivostok 594,701
Irkutsk 593,604
Chabarovsk [Khabarovsk] 583,072
Novokuzneck [Novokuznetsk] 565,680
Orenburg 549,361
Kemerovo 529,934
R'azan' [Ryazan] {Razan} 524,104
Penza 518,025
T'umen' [Tyumen] {Tumen} 510,719
Nabere�nyje Čelny (Bre�nev) [Naberezhnye Chelny] {Nabereznyje Celny} 509,870
Lipeck [Lipetsk] 506,114
Astrachan' [Astrakhan] {Astrachan} 504,501
Tomsk 487,838
Tula 481,216
Machačkala [Makhachkala] {Machackala} 462,412
Kirov (Vi'atka) 457,578
Čeboksary [Cheboksary] {Ceboksary} 440,621
Ivanovo 431,721
Br'ansk [Bryansk] {Bransk} 431,526
Kaliningrad (K�nigsberg) 430,003
Magnitogorsk 418,545
Kursk 412,442
Tver' (Kalinin) {Tver} 408,903
Ni�nij Tagil [Nizhny Tagil] {Niznij Tagil} 390,498
Ulan-Ude 359,391
Archangel'sk [Arkhangelsk] {Archangelsk} 356,051
Stavropol' {Stavropol} 354,867
Kurgan 345,515
Belgorod 337,030
Murmansk 336,137
Kaluga 334,751
Or�l [Oryol] {Orel} 333,310
Soči [Sochi] {Soci} 328,809
Smolensk 325,137
Čita [Chita] {Cita} 316,643
Vladimir 315,954
Vladikavkaz (Ordzonikidse) 315,608
Vol�skij [Volzhsky] {Volzskij} 313,169
Čerepovec [Cherepovets] {Cerepovec} 311,869
Saransk 304,866
Tambov 293,658
Vologda 293,046
Surgut 285,027
Taganrog 281,947
Komsomol'sk-na-Amure {Komsomolsk-na-Amure} 281,035
Kostroma 278,750
Nal'čik [Nalchik] {Nalcik} 274,974
Petrozavodsk 266,160
Sterlitamak 264,362
Dzer�insk [Dzerzhinsk] {Dzerzinsk} 261,334
Bratsk 259,335
Jo�kar-Ola [Yoshkar-Ola] {Joskar-Ola} 256,719
�achty [Shakhty] {Sachty} 254,721
Orsk 250,963
Ангарск 245,699
Ni�nevartovsk [Nizhnevartovsk] {Niznevartovsk} 239,044
Bijsk [Biysk] 232,932
Novorossijsk [Novorossiysk] 232,079
Syktyvkar 230,011
Ni�nekamsk [Nizhnekamsk] {Niznekamsk} 225,399
Prokopjevsk [Prokopyevsk] 224,597
Velikij Novgorod [Velikiy Novgorod] 223,263
Rybinsk (Andropov) 222,653
Blagove�čensk [Blagoveshchensk] {Blagovescensk} 219,221
Staryj Oskol [Stary Oskol] 215,898
Groznyj [Grozny] 210,720
Jakutsk [Yakutsk] 210,642
Pskov 202,780
Severodvinsk 201,551
Balakovo 200,470
Petropavlovsk-Kamčatskij [Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky] {Petropavlovsk-Kamcatskij} 198,028
Zlatoust 194,551
Ėngel's {Engels} 193,984
Armavir 193,964
Syzran' {Syzran} 188,107
Kamensk-Ural'skij [Kamensk-Uralsky] {Kamensk-Uralskij} 186,153
Novočerkassk [Novocherkassk] {Novocerkassk} 184,470
Podol'sk {Podolsk} 180,963
Nachodka [Nakhodka] 178,813
Ju�no-Sachalinsk [Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk] {Juzno-Sachalinsk} 175,085
Ber�zniki {Berezniki} 173,077
Volgodonsk 172,401
Korol�v (Kaliningrad) [Korolyov] {Korolev} 170,558
Bala�icha [Balashikha] {Balasicha} 147,909
Chimki [Khimki] 141,000
Noril'sk {Norilsk} 134,832

CKS 1,324,602
Čėrnihiv {Cernihiv} 1,206,817
Čėrnivcy {Cernivcy} 914,588
Charkiv 2,866,695
Chėrson {Cherson} 1,149,811
Chmel'nyckyj {Chmelnyckyj} 1,401,140
Dnipropėtrovsk {Dnipropetrovsk} 3,502,851
Donėc'k {Doneck} 4,720,914
Ivano-Frankivs'k {Ivano-Frankivsk} 1,397,822
Kirovohrad 1,100,024
Krym [Crimea] 2,005,127
Ky�v {Kyiv} 1,793,878
Ky�v [Kiev] {Kyiv} 2,639,030
Luhans'k {Luhansk} 2,472,617
L'viv {Lviv} 2,598,311
Mykola�v {Mykolaiv} 1,240,406
Odėsa {Odesa} 2,430,033
Poltava 1,590,517
Rivnė {Rivne} 1,164,148
Sėvastopol' {Sevastopol} 378,353
Sumy 1,261,717
Tėrnopil' {Ternopil} 1,126,602
Vinnycja 1,736,236
Volyn' {Volyn} 1,048,788
Zakarpattja [Transcarpathia] 1,251,117
Zapori��ija {Zaporizzija} 1,892,598
�ytomyr {Zytomyr} 1,359,844

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

I think you nailed it with this comment I/O.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTR

It is what works for GTR and he, like I/O, is giving advice for people to take as they see fit. Take it or leave it, its up to individuals to decide, but does someone have to "rail" and denegrate someone's POV because he personally doesn't agree with it? You think I/Os advice is good, that's great I am happy for you, I don't think GTRs advicein this case is bad. I take what I see and use it to my advantage, I don't discount anything and use it all as a learning experience.

Now I'll get you to define "functionally able"!

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

OZGuy: GTR has his opinon based on what he knows and sees, I have another based on what I know and see. The difference in those opinons is the value of places like this. Let the reader decide what suits him, but let them see there is more than one view.

I/O I form my opinion on what I know and see and what I see is you being rude and arrogant when someone states something you disagree with, I just chipped you on it, take it or leave it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

Up to the mark FWIW is being a good enough person to attract the best. Why go all that way and seek less than the best. (Nothing whatsoever to do with money) In some cases the best can be found in the provinces and in some cases they will be found in the major cities.

Your "mark" comment was in a paragraph discussing economics, sorry if I took it wrong and thought money but hey what does economics concern, oh thats right money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

OZ, like it or not, economics played a big part in this whole process getting started years back. Whether you or I like to admit it, the number one issue for the guy seeking a partner in the East is to figure if she is leaving for him or if she is leaving for lifestyle upgrade. Higher chance of it being upgrade if the home situation is a poor one.

I agree that this was the case in the past and possibly still is today, but I also think your stereotyping a group of people cause their living standards my not be as high as they would be if they were born in the western world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

Below is a list of some of the bigger cites in Russia and Ukrainian cities. I fail to see the sense in walking past half the population of these few (50 million or more women) as a mandatory proceedure because they are not all spoiled brats.

I for one haven't said you should "walk past" them, I did however say that your way isn't everyones way. I don't see problem with that and I don't see why you need to call someones POV "whacked out". My issue with your post is not about your pov of peoples chances in certain places compared to others, my issue is with how you put others down when making it known. We are talking POVs here not cold hard facts, I think before you by inference call someone "whacked" you should consider that.

Posted by: I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

I for one haven't said you should "walk past" them,

Agreed, nevertheless, another poster DID suggest walking past that group and it was that notion I challenged. Point is, guys should aim for the very best wherever that may be found.

I/O

Posted by: alfie

I will be going to Ukraine soon for my first trip. I live in a smaller town & decided to look in a smaller town in Ukraine simply because if i find someone they might find easier to settle. I don't want to live in a big city like London which is only about 25 minutes away, so why would a women from Kiev want to live in a small town like mine ? & not everyone likes big cities.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

Thank you I/O, this is meaning of my "THEORY" which was based on observation and experience. Is it right or wrong ... not sure ... it is a theroy but something I used and it worked for me. Everyone has a theory .... or a list of dos and don'ts ... or at least they should.

Yes I agree 100%, let the reader decide after listening to everyone's opinion and any research gathered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark

Because someone starts a thread and it turns into a circle jerk on the ills of some AW does not in anyway form any kind or basis of fact. To infer that it does is whacked. A thread on the forum based solely on opinion does not back up your statement GTR. Do you have anything else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark

Yes, I do personally have a special attraction to honest sincere Russian women. But I have also have had an attraction to honest sincere AW, come to think of it, some other honest and sincere other nationalities of women as well. So far the RW in my life I met on the first trip and at this point she is the "one". I have no crystal ball so I won't attempt to predict the future. I did all my "qualifying" before making the first trip and that has served me well. But maybe I just got lucky, I dunno. As it happens she is from a bigger city inside Russia.

It is obvious you don't know what a theory is Clark so I will define it for you, let's just call it an unproven working idea. The object to my "THEORY" is increasing your odds of finding a woman from the FSU. I am not saying to avoid all women from Russia and big cities that are no more then 10 years your junior. I am saying your odds will increase (according to my theory) if you choose someone from a smaller city but not from Russia and is no more then 10 years your junior.

Show me where I said there are not not good, eligable, and serious women from Russia or big cities ... I never said this but in your mind, (for some whacked reason) this is what you thought.

I think this forum would take you more seriously if you were not so negative and argumentative all the time. And for your own good, so you will grow as a person, listen to other people's ideas and learn to value their opinions.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by clark

It is obvious you did not find "the one" in these cities? Have you found "the one" yet Clark? Where have you been looking and what is the age difference. How long and where have you been looking? How many times have you been to the FSU?

Let's get this thread back on course. If you or anyone else thinks my Theroy needs futher discussion, I will start a new thread.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

Agreed, nevertheless, another poster DID suggest walking past that group and it was that notion I challenged. Point is, guys should aim for the very best wherever that may be found.

I/O

Another poster offered some advice which he thought was helpful. You then decided to show us all you feel you know better than everyone and felt you were above the other poster.

I now see more people have gotten onto calling people "whacked". I give up, this site has some serious issues concerning respect.

Posted by: Spakoyna

Wow! To jump in or not!

I have to agrre with IO on his point about ruling out the larger cities. I believe a good woman is a good woman no matter where she lives. Now a woman who is more easily persuaded to leave her country for marriage probably does live in the smaller,less economically developed cities.

Now to the topic of the thread. I guess I am sortta a 1 trip wonder. I was a W2V1 and filed the K1 after I returned from my 1st trip! I visited her 3 more times. My wife is from a large Russian city!(Novosibirsk) As to our experience...we have seen more failures with the Ukrainian Ladies.

I have said it before and will say it again. I believe the whole key to increasing your odds of success do lie in the letter writing stage. This is the time to explore each others wants,desires,expectations,and needs. The letter writing should progress to the point where if both are honest and open all that is needed is the physical spark when you meet. Everything else will already be known(Except for quirks and habits LOL!). You will know very quickly if you ask serious questions whether a lady is worth persuing. If your questions are ignored,sidestepped,or vaguely answered vrs. direct and serious answers to your questions you will know. If she never asks questions about you,your life,where you live,your customs,etc. you will know!

Posted by: I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

If you or anyone else thinks my Theroy needs futher discussion, I will start a new thread.

LOL. GTR, glad to see you never lost your sense of humour. Three subjects which invariably drag the Mods into action are "Big city vs Small city", "Age Gap" and "Does she have English".

I/O

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

LOL. GTR, glad to see you never lost your sense of humour. Three subjects which invariably drag the Mods into action are "Big city vs Small city", "Age Gap" and "Does she have English".

I/O

HE HE HE - You can't lose your sense of humor when going through this process!

Glad to have you back I/O! I hope you can help out the Australians here with visa questions.

Posted by: clark

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Clark read what I say below and you will see, if you actually care to read it, what I am saying.

I never said you couldn't find a good woman in those places and neither did GTR. What he did say, and I/O deliberately left alot of it ou,t was,
It is what works for GTR and he, like I/O, is giving advice for people to take as they see fit. Take it or leave it, its up to individuals to decide, but does someone have to "rail" and denegrate someone's POV because he personally doesn't agree with it? You think I/Os advice is good, that's great I am happy for you, I don't think GTRs advicein this case is bad. I take what I see and use it to my advantage, I don't discount anything and use it all as a learning experience.

Now I'll get you to define "functionally able"!

OzGuy I actually agree with everything you stated there with the exception that I/O didn't "rail" or denigrate GTR's POV. Instead I/O offered an opposing POV that I happen to agree with. GTR's line of thought and logic is flawed. Of course GTR gets defensive as he always does when called on his narrow-mindedness. If one wishes to increase their chances of finding an FSU woman, they should logically go where there is more women, not less. Yet, he advocates this is a bad idea.

Functionally able would be one that could woo and court a good woman in any social setting, without having to rely on the "saviour" mentality offering only visa's, green cards and escape from a hard scrabble lifestyle. Finding the smallest barrel from which to shoot fish in shows ones own ineptness, I realize the question of where to search for FSU ladies is a constant one, from especially newbies. The question is a non-sequitur and immaterial. To increase one's chances of finding a good FSU woman, he should be a good man and go to where the women are. It is really that simple. Oz you know as well as I that many who entertain the idea of a FSU woman are social leppers in their own circles and functionally unable.

Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

This is near to the most whacked out piece of advice I have seen so far. The sheer numbers make it so. If one takes the areas metioned, they would contain more than 50% of the women in the entire FSU and this is saying men should avoid them. Just on a numbers basis without looking at language ability and a few other key factors, the suggestion is odd at best.

This is exactly the sort of advice I rail against, because almost invariably I see it comming from guys who have had a bad experience in one of the areas. Sometimes the man made a foolish decision and to come out and condemn given areas on that basis is pretty low IMO.

And..........those areas are a lot poorer too. Figure it out for yourself. If the man is up to the mark, the big cities are not out of his league. Personally, I wouldn't be real keen to try to discern the genuine for the non in the economic backwaters.

As for openness and honesty, I've had a few associations over the years from Kishinev to Vladivostok and there isn't 3 cents of difference between the peoples when compared on the same economic plain. The biggest difference in attitude I have seen is the difference between the haves and the have nots.

I/O

I/O
I will clarify my statement for you and have no problem with your advice or input.
For me, my personal reasoning for avoiding cities like Moscow, St Peterburg, Kiev is due to "1" and only "1" factor, the town I currently live in.
My town has a population of 1000 (that is not a miss type) people, the neighboring town is 4000 people, I live 2+ hours outside of Chicago, there is of course absolutely no public transportation in my town , heck my town does not even have a stop light! Even when dating people in my own country I avoid New York, Chicago, LA. I have never met anyone in those cities who was eager to move to my town, they all wanted me to move into the "Big City". I do not feel these odds will increase when searching in the mega cities like Moscow.
There will be enough dificulties in a woman's adjustment to leaving her home and culture then to add the Big City to small town adjustment, this would possibly be too much for her???
As for me being 'up to the mark' I do not need to YELL OUT my qualities and prowless with women, so I will just leave that subject alone.
Also to suggest that a women who lives in a Rural city is less 'quality' then a woman who lives in a big city is sheer 'Bullocks'. So your statement of 'go for the best' implying that only the 'best' live in big cities is also sheer 'Bullocks'

as far as numbers or odds go, yes there is a bigger choice (numbers) in cities like Moscow but for arguments sake lets say there are 100 woman I would be interested in meeting in Moscow maybe 5-10 of these would be willing to live in a town of 1000 people so I have a 5-10% of meeting a life partner there. Now if I go to a small town let us say there are 15 woman I am interested in meeting, out of these women there are 5-8 women who are willing to live in a town of 1000 people, that would give me a 33-50%+ chance of meeting a life partner there.
Now of course it is impossible to meet every woman in a big or small town so for me and my chances of meeting my future mate the odds are 'stacked' in my favour in visting smaller towns.
This is also not how I first approached this process, and feel that my initial approach has contributed to my still looking. I have had 2 fantastic trips to Russia, would not trade either one for the world, and I have met two wonderful ladies on these trips and I am grateful for whatever time they have been in my life. I also am divorced and do not view this marriage with any bitterness, I do not hold any hard or bad feelings for my ex-wife and to this day we are still good friends. So my approach also does not have anything to do with 'bad experiences' just a lot of looking into the mirror and trying to determine what approach will give me my best opportunities at success.
I do not preach this as a formula for success for everyone, just what I feel is my personal best chance at meeting the correct woman for me and my life. I of course would love to hear your opinion on my approach, no matter if you agree with me or not

Posted by: clark

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

So you are saying the advice and opinions of members mean nothing? I don't know about you but I value the opinions of others and have learned a lot from the members of this forum. You are the whacked one Clark because you are closed minded and think you are always correct. So lets see, what's your proof to bust my theory. I am willing to listen and change my opinion.

It is obvious you don't know what a theory is Clark so I will define it for you, let's just call it an unproven working idea. The object to my "THEORY" is increasing your odds of finding a woman from the FSU. I am not saying to avoid all women from Russia and big cities that are no more then 10 years your junior. I am saying your odds will increase (according to my theory) if you choose someone from a smaller city but not from Russia and is no more then 10 years your junior.

Show me where I said there are not not good, eligable, and serious women from Russia or big cities ... I never said this but in your mind, (for some whacked reason) this is what you thought.

I think this forum would take you more seriously if you were not so negative and argumentative all the time. And for your own good, so you will grow as a person, listen to other people's ideas and learn to value their opinions.

GTR probably the first thing you should do is learn how to spell theory. If and when you do I'll be more than happy to debate the finer points of theory with you. In the meantime I won't get in a debate or pissing contest with you because you are obviously ill-equipped.

No GTR I am not always correct nor am I always negative. You on the other hand take personal offense anytime someone disagrees with you. When I make a statement that is wrong call me on it, please do. This is a forum for sharing of ideas, helping people and receiving help in return on the subject of FSU women.

When I see someone such as yourself offer flawed advice according to my evidence I am compelled state what I know. That is just the way I am and I do not apologize for it. I call it like I see it. You or anyone else can take it or leave it, I really could care less but there it is. You are the one that made the statement to avoid Russia and the bigger cities and resort cities. This is wrong and the logic is flawed. There is nothing empirical about your theory. Yes I have been to Russia, Yes, I have found the "one" and no she did not drop a doo doo bomb on me like yours did. For the sake of this thread that is all I'll share of it with you.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by clark

Yes I am so embarased thot I did not spall theory corectly, OH SHAME!!! I bow to your excellence of spelling and of the English language.

You don't want a pissing match because you know you would lose like as you always do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clark

When I see someone such as yourself offer flawed advice according to my evidence I am compelled state what I know. That is just the way I am and I do not apologize for it. I call it like I see it. You or anyone else can take it or leave it, I really could care less but there it is. You are the one that made the statement to avoid Russia and the bigger cities and resort cities. This is wrong and the logic is flawed. There is nothing empirical about your theory. Yes I have been to Russia, Yes, I have found the "one" and no she did not drop a doo doo bomb on me like yours did. For the sake of this thread that is all I'll share of it with you.

Okay Clark one more time ... are you listening??? It is a theory, theories have flaws ... it is an idea not fact! Do you understand? I'm not giving flawed advice ... it is for people to read and comment on and fine tune the theory.

I also see you think you are always right based on this ("according to my evidence I am compelled state what I know"). This is your opinion not fact and I think I will "leave it".

Posted by: Jill

This is very interesting. It seems that Moscow and St. Pete women are the new American women of this site

I agree that looking in smaller towns may increase your odds, but do you really believe that it is because women in large cities are less honest and sincere? Or that there are fewer "good women" in these cities? Again, sounds like the "evil, spoiled, cheating AW" argument to me--an argument that I personally reject. Let's not be naive, for MANY Russian women part of the reason for looking for a man abroad IS economic. They want a better life than what they can currently find where they live. They want more opportunities, a higher standard of living, stability. And there's nothing wrong with that. But what we are seeing now is that women in places like Moscow, St. Pete, and Kiev actually HAVE (or are starting to gain) opportunities comparable to those in the West. In other words, one of the motivations for looking for a husband abroad is quickly disappearing for those women. And so fewer are looking.

Quote:

Also economic, imo. More opportunities for work, education, and financial stability means less desperation and hence decreased desire to drown own's sorrows in a bottle. If you truly have something to live for and look forward to, if you truly believe in tomorrow, you are less likely to casually throw it all away in exchange for a life of drunken debauchery. In many cases, anyway.

Just my opinion, of course, but I do believe the answer to much of this is economics, not the quality of women in those places. And I do find it rather ironic how much the description of "big city women" is starting to sound like the description of AW so often posted here.

Posted by: deccie

Aw gawd, just loving this. (-:

Nice post Jill. i for one am certainly glad I did NOT bypass big cities like St Petersburg.

and it certainly does appear Big City RW are the new AW...

Looks like GTR met his "two" rather than his "one" by my count.

Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

This is very interesting. It seems that Moscow and St. Pete women are the new American women of this site

Just my opinion, of course, but I do believe the answer to much of this is economics, not the quality of women in those places. And I do find it rather ironic how much the description of "big city women" is starting to sound like the description of AW so often posted here.

Jill,
for me the reason that I put "Moscow" or cities like this on the 'back burner' is not for reasons that I feel they are more like AW, in fact I do not disregard AW as future partners either. All things being equal if I do not find what I am looking for in a woman, I would rather live the rest of my life single.
The reason I search first for woman in small towns has to do with the location and size of my town. If you read my earlier post I think I spell it out clearly (somewhat I hope).
Yes, the smaller more rural towns quality of life maybe be less, but for me economics does not play a part either, if the woman came from Moscow or St Peterburg unless she was looking for a 'Millionare' she would not live a life sqaulor with me, but it is a factor (economics) that must always be considered on whether she is looking to just 'get out' or is actually looking for 'a good man' to marry. with Oil prices Russia's economy is better, much still is centralized in cities like Moscow, St Peterburg, but the trickle down affect will help all areas.

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

The reason I search first for woman in small towns has to do with the location and size of my town. If you read my earlier post I think I spell it out clearly (somewhat I hope).

Yes, it is clear, and I think you are correct. A women from a large city might have major problems adjusting to the slower pace of a smaller town (and vice versa). So it makes good sense to me.

Quote:

but it is a factor (economics) that must always be considered on whether she is looking to just 'get out' or is actually looking for 'a good man' to marry.

You know, there are all kinds of women. Some are looking just to get out (there are a lot of green card marriages around--that is no secret). But I think that there is nothing wrong with seeing immigration as part of the package--a nice guy AND a more stable place to live. And if women are looking for a package deal, I don't think that necessarily makes them any less honest or sincere (in fact, many are quite open about this).

So for SOME women, the motivation is ONLY a green card, for some it is ONLY the man, but for many it is BOTH the green card AND the man. The first category is to be avoided, but I see nothing wrong with either of the other two categories. This issue, however, is that the demographics are changing and economic development is not evenly distributed throughout the former USSR. And I do believe that this will somewhat change the "playing field" in the search for a partner abroad.

Posted by: sidney

For me it was Moscow, St Pete one year and Kiev. Moscow the next. Went back later that year to Moscow to spend more quality time with one that I met in Kiev. The next year she came to america and we married. For me my qualifications changed. I was looking for a 10 year age gap max but connected better with younger ones. Also always had a thing for red heads with green eyes something that must run in my family. My wife is blond/blue eyed but when her temper surfaces she is a true red head. I live rural and that was one of my first questions about life where I live. I always tried to project the positive but if they were looking for a city boy I'd cut my loss and move on. No use wasting both our time. My wife was from Nikolaev which is a smaller city in ukraine. She was open minded enough to come see and has adjusted well. My closest neighbor is 1/4 mile or more distance but we're close to the capital of our state (less then 1 hour by car). My best advise would be to not limit yourself to certain qualities or qualifications. You never know.
disclaimer: the views are mine and mine only and quarantees no degree of success to those who follow my advice so don't sue me.
Sid

Posted by: royalpalace774

WOW! my little question has has turned into something here.

I asked this question because when I first started this quest I thought to myself that I knew that I wanted to go to the FSU and try & find a women who I felt would have a deep emotional connection to me & we would grow together & build a life together & have some kids. My grandparents were Russian & I thought it could be a good thing.

To tell you the truth I thought it was going to be a little easier than what has been happening with me. I actually thought in the beginning of this that all I have to do is meet a good girl who will see that I am a genuine nice guy with a great personality and I am in tip top shape and also women in the U.S. think I look like Bruce Willis in the states, so maybe I have a shot here.

I have a great job, home, no money problems, kind, sincere, loving, funny, physically fit, nice clothes, good listener, easy to talk to, willing to work out differences, confident, want commitment & devoted, etc, etc.

I remember my very 1st time out to meet women number 1. After 7 months of talking on Skype & everything seemed perfect I arrive on day one and on day number 2 she says let's go into mall & look around. When I did not buy her a $150.00 bag she freaked out on me and looked me in the eyes & said : I DON'T NEED TO BE WITH A PENNY PINCHER". She was from Kherson, Ukraine & we met in Odessa.

Being it was my 1st trip I was in SHOCK from what just happened. I had all ready given her gifts I brought from home and so far the only time I spent with her was after I got off the plane we went to our apt , put things away and went to eat and then went to the apt & watched tv and then each went to our own room and went to sleep.

Day 2 we went to eat lunch and then the mall incident. I have no problem getting something for a women when I think the time is right , but this was just out of control. I had barely said hello to her and here we are on day 2 and I am amazed at what had just happened. OBVIOUS GTG!

Next trip to another women 6 months later. This women I had a k1 with. She never once asked me for anything and she would even open up her purse to pay for things. I would tell her to put it away. She bought me a beautiful clock as a gift for my home. We had great talks, made great love, everything was in place & she was approved with the K1. Her parents liked me. All she needed to do was go to the interview & then come to my town and we were on our way. I go to see her on trip number 2 last summer for 3 weeks and something was not right and I just could not figure out what it was. She never said we were done , but she did not act anything like when I met her the 1st time I went to see her. I go back home to the states, we keep talking everyday, 2 months later I get an email from her telling me we are over.

Why? I really don't know what happened. Did she find a guy where she lives? Did her parents tell her to not do it? It could be a million things. I don't know. I am confident that it had nothing to do with anything I said or did. But maybe I said or did something and she just did not let me know what it was.

Whatever happened, happened & it was over after 1 year.

Next trip to another women in Odessa. Seems like it could go somewhere. Great times together, no intimate (kissing) moments at all. But after 1 week together asks me to come back again. I come back 3 months later & find out she won't kiss me because she says we are great friends and I should have known that because it was obvious to me. Again I am amazed at hearing this girl tell me that she let me come 8000 miles to see her a 2nd time & we are just great friends & she doesn't have an attraction to me like a wife does for a husband.

I tell her to go home 2 days after I arrive because of what I have just found out. She tells me she still wants to be with me for the day. One day later she tells me maybe she made a mistake by saying this to me and she says she needs more time. She still is not letting me kiss her. Tells me that she wants me to come back again in the summer to see if more can develop between us. I ask her if you have no attraction to me now, why will you have it 3 months from now.

Her answer is I don't know, maybe I will maybe I won't. But then says she is absolutely sure that if we were naked together I would feel very very uncomfortable because of how young & beautiful she is. Then says she could never live in my city in the U.S. and says she could never picture us being naked together. Then tops it off with saying " I NEVER INVITED YOU A 2ND TIME, YOU CAME BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO AND YOU KNEW WE WERE JUST FRIENDS".

That was all I needed to know. I needed to get away from her as fast as I could. And I did. I told her to go home and I don't ever want to see her face o hear her voice ever again as long as I live. She knew on my 1st trip to see her how she felt and still had me come back again.

I guess I have been having some bad luck. I have another trip this summer and I have good feelings about it.

I don't know if this means anything, but this next women is the only women out of all that I have been to see that sends me text messages every few days to wish me a nice day and say hello & send me kisses.

She is the only one that does this. Not even from the women I had a K1 with did I get little things like this.

All the others never made any effort at all to send me any messages to tell me nice things when I did not expect it. Ms. Sumy sends me nice words to wish me a beautiful day & surprises me when I least expect it.

This is why I have good feelings about my next meeting with Ms Sumy. We have been talking for 1 year now.

Have I been picking the wrong women to meet? Maybe I have. Have I contributed to the failure of any of my meetings with all of the women I have met? I have made 5 trips & seen 3 women. I don't think I did anything wrong. But I do know that everything that happened was supposed to happen.

I hope this next trip is " THE ONE"

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

I agree that looking in smaller towns may increase your odds, but do you really believe that it is because women in large cities are less honest and sincere? Let's not be naive, for MANY Russian women part of the reason for looking for a man abroad IS economic. They want a better life than what they can currently find where they live. They want more opportunities, a higher standard of living, stability. And there's nothing wrong with that. But what we are seeing now is that women in places like Moscow, St. Pete, and Kiev actually HAVE (or are starting to gain) opportunities comparable to those in the West. In other words, one of the motivations for looking for a husband abroad is quickly disappearing for those women. And so fewer are looking.

Thanks for the post Jill. Based on you reply and I'O's reply, it seems economics is a reason FSU women look for foreign husbands. I admit that the words sincere and honest were not correct words to use.

It is good to hear that you agree about increasing your odds if you avoid the big cities which is the main topic of my theory.

So if 1 reason is economics, is another that the "good" FSU man to "good" FSU woman ratio true (not enough good guys)? Is this another reason FSU women search for foreign men ... or is this ratio a fantasy? Has the "having a good/happy family" been "bred out" of FSU women and they only go where the money is? I suppose there are many reasons why FSU search foreign husbands and each one has their reason.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

Looks like GTR met his "two" rather than his "one" by my count.

I have no idea what this means Andy.

I'm glad you have found "the one" Andy. Too bad she won't marry you and left you at the alter. Wise up, she's only after your money and having a good time.

Posted by: alfie

Royalpalace

I'm sorry about what happened to you. I guess you have just had rotten bad luck. I can't understand why men travel to the FSU just o see 1 women. What do you do if things don't work out ? Go home early ?

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Has the "having a good/happy family" been "bred out" of FSU women and they only go where the money is?

I don't think that these desires are mutually exclusive. I think you can sincerely want both a good/happy family AND to live somewhere where there is more stability and opportunity for self-realization. In fact, I'm sure there are those who believe that you can only have a good/happy family in a place where there is some stability or, better yet, prosperity. I don't think that that makes someone insincere or materialistic. It is a natural human desire to want a decent life and a better future for your children.

Posted by: JohnnyLaRue

I can't speak for FSU areas/cities but I've dated numerous big city girls (Tokyo, LA, Berlin, ...etc) and a large percentage don't seem to share the same values I do.

I'm not a big city guy but would be miserable if I lived in a rural place like Chilldog (sorry!). I like to live and mostly have lived in medium sized towns. I think (I hope!) a small town woman would be ok with living in a town with pop of 100,000 - 200,000.

Royal: I think only seeing one at a time could be an issue. Especially if they know you are only seeing them on your trip. Just since the types of women you are seeing perhaps figure you are at the mercy of them.

I had the same problem when I lived in Japan and then after heading back home (work visa expired) I returned to spend time with a women I had met/was involved with. Things went poorly so I called up another friend/woman I had dated and hung out with her the rest of the trip. Granted I had lived there and had connections but my point is my trip was not dependent on one woman.

Or as they say in Russia.. Не клади́ все я́йца в одну́ корзи́ну

I also think you are missing signals or red flags. I don't know how old you are but I'm under 30 and am fairly good at seeing the red flags. In your descriptions of the failed trips I have seen red flags in each one of them.
(i.e: I would have known the one woman just wanted to be friends based on the no kissing thing and would not have returned to see her).

I do feel ya IF the one womans parents were against you seeing their daughter. I had the same experience in Japan where I met an amazing women and we ended up getting engaged (well I asked her to)

But her parents/grandparents (lived in Hiroshima) were 100% against her continuing our relationship based on that I was white, lived in North America and was indirectly responsible for dropping the bomb on their country (they had the nerve to tell me this to my face!). They told her it was me or her family and if she chose me it would bring great shame upon the family. So she broke it off with me. Yea it sucked but if she chose me and her family was against it odds are it would have became worse.

Hopefully your current woman you are talking to works out great. I wish you the best!

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

So if 1 reason is economics, is another that the "good" FSU man to "good" FSU woman ratio true (not enough good guys)? Is this another reason FSU women search for foreign men ... or is this ratio a fantasy? Has the "having a good/happy family" been "bred out" of FSU women and they only go where the money is? I suppose there are many reasons why FSU search foreign husbands and each one has their reason.

BTW, I always thought that this was a rather insightful article. It was written by one of our former members, a RW married to and AM.

False and unrealistic expectations as a road to a failed Russian-Western marriage: a married Russian woman's thoughts about international marriage

Written by Tasha, Los Angeles, CA

http://www.russianmeetingplace.com/...ns_marriage.htm

Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfie

Royalpalace

I'm sorry about what happened to you. I guess you have just had rotten bad luck. I can't understand why men travel to the FSU just o see 1 women. What do you do if things don't work out ? Go home early ?

You have a Plan B organised before you go just in case

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

I have no idea what this means Andy.

I'm glad you have found "the one" Andy. Too bad she won't marry you and left you at the alter. Wise up, she's only after your money and having a good time.

That was below the belt GTR, btw I also think Deccies comment could have been left for a PM.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Yes both our comments were below the belt but if you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

I've explained this to Andy many times but he just doesn't get it.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by clark

OzGuy I actually agree with everything you stated there with the exception that I/O didn't "rail" or denigrate GTR's POV.

I/O hmself used the phrase "rail against" and when you say something is "whacked" you are denegrating it. We obvioulsy have a difference of opionion about railing and denegrating but when the guy we are talking about used at least one of the phrases then maybe you should consider the fact you ar wrong in this case.

I/O does offer good advice and on the odd occasion so does GTR but there is no need to turn it into a who know best thing when all we are discussing is POVs and not FACTS.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

Yes both our comments were below the belt but if you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

I've explained this to Andy many times but he just doesn't get it.

Your a MOD GTR don't you think leading by example is the way to go instead of verbally flagellating members.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Your a MOD GTR don't you think leading by example is the way to go instead of verbally flagellating members.

And what am I to do ... turn the other cheek and let members attack me? I don't think so. I have said this many times in the past. I will express my opinions as I see fit, if someone doesn't like it then report me. I will gladly give up being a moderator if this is what members, administrators and other moderators agree on.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

Take it to PMs. Simple really, isn't it. Deal with each other out of public view and then let someone like Khashyar (or Searcher, yes he still drops in sometimes) who can be seen as impartial moderate the outcome.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

I would be happy to take it to PMs but he continues to attack me on the forum and I will attack back. As I said, I told him to "lay off" before but he doesn't get it for some reason.

Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyLaRue

I'm not a big city guy but would be miserable if I lived in a rural place like Chilldog (sorry!). I like to live and mostly have lived in medium sized towns. I think (I hope!) a small town woman would be ok with living in a town with pop of 100,000 - 200,000.

No offense taken

actually I was born and lived my first 8 years in Chicago then we moved to a suburb of Chicago called Arlington Heights and that is where I lived (metropolitan Chicago area) until I was 33 years old, (not counting time spent away at college). Was not until my twin daughters were 6 years old and me and my ex-wife and our girls had out grown my first home (2 bedroom one bath 1000 sq ft slab ranch) did I first start looking into Rural areas, did not want to spend even then (14 years ago) what I felt were over priced homes. Bought a home (my kids and ex-wife still live there) that was 3 times the size of the home we just left, for a close to the same price I sold the home in Arlington Heights. When I divorced (5 years go) I gave the ex the home we bought together and moved even further Rural again not going to pay what I feel was outrages prices for a home when I could find something just as big for 1/2 to 1/3 less, plus it is now just me and the dog, until hopefully I find someone to share my life with.
I truly am not a country hick, heck I do not even know which end of the bull to milk

Posted by: I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chillidog

I/O
Also to suggest that a women who lives in a Rural city is less 'quality' then a woman who lives in a big city is sheer 'Bullocks'. So your statement of 'go for the best' implying that only the 'best' live in big cities is also sheer 'Bullocks'

I of course would love to hear your opinion on my approach, no matter if you agree with me or not

Chilli: LOL, please? Where did I say the provincial women were of lower quality? If I bend my brain enough, I can kinda see how you drew that conclusion, but I can assure you it is way wide of my thinking.

First to Jill's comments. IMO, some very accurate and mature observations there.

Chilli, regarding your theory (Seems to be the popular word right now), without boring you with history, early on, when I first considered this idea, somewhere around my second or third time in Russia (I was there first for other reasons), I felt much the same way. I have a rural background and now live in a small city (100 000 Pop), thus it seemed logical to me that it would be a difficult/impossible adjustment for a "metro" lady.

As time has gone along I have found this to be flawed logic, particularly when it comes to RW. Someone remarked upthread that I was suggesting "Women are Women". This is not quite what I was driving at, because I don't altogether think that to be the case. There is some very fundamental differences between WW and RW. Some of those differences are desirable and some are a PITA.

When considering RW, one is wise to consider history to an extent and that history must include the "Decemberists" being exiled to Irkutsk. What did their wives do? Packed sled and dog and tracked several thousand miles accross the brutality of Russia's winter to be near their husbands. As the dogs died off during the trip they dragged the sleds by hand. Upon arrival, some were prevented from seeing their husbands for 5 years, much less touching them. These women were not rural toughies. They had been married into and lived a very privilidged lifestyle in the major metros.

Things have changed and I am not suggesting the modern RW would be prepared to do as the "Decemberist" women did, but to an extent the heritage of that sacrificial heart is part of Slavic women. IMO, until one has spent considerable time with a RW, it is impossible to get a grip on this aspect. The result is that a real and decent RW may be prepared to make far more sacrifices than some guys are giving them credit for.

In my personal situation, my wife has moved from 1.3 million people with a better than mid class lifestyle and a wide social circle to a city of 100 000 and a miserble old bastard like me. Thus far she is coping very well and is making her own space here. I am not suggesting it is easy for her, it is not. I know she struggled with the decision. I surely did also. Neither of us were busting ourselves to get married and although we both understood that real love was there, we were both focused on the practicalities of whether or not we could really make this ridiculous thing work. Whether or not we ultimately succeed, only time will tell.

BTW, don't think for a moment I am suggesting a RW will follow you everywhere and everyway without argument. LOL. If you want a peaceful lifestyle, DON'T marry a RW. LOL.

Continuing prolixity and getting way off the original topic, technology is one of the keys to helping a RW settle in a new area. Skype, webcams and such DO make a huge difference. Home is suddenly not quite so far removed.

Chilli, I guess the point I would like to make is that IMO it is more important to search where YOU are comfortable searching than it is to make theoretical judgements on what type of women exist where. If you are more comfortable moving in provincial locations, do just that, if you are comfortable moving in metro locations, do just that, BUT, look at the quality of the quarry, not the geography.

I/O

Posted by: GoingToRussia

GREAT Post I/O! I totally agree and couldn't have said it better. FSU women are different than western women. They are more willing to make sacrifices and know how to make the best of any good or bad situation.

Loved the part about a "peaceful life style" ... so true! I think this was the hardest part for me to get use to!

I guess we have both changed over the last year. I remember when we were at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

Again, welcome back and I hope you keep posting.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

Seriously sometimes what you are saying looks like this, you have advocated based on economics and sheer numbers that a guy SHOULD look in the cities cause they will have the best available purely because of economics and numbers. What are we supposed to think?

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

FSU women are different than western women. They are more willing to make sacrifices and know how to make the best of any good or bad situation.

I know you are talking about personal opinion but I wonder how true this is. I am not sure that the old Eastern Bloc is the land of matrimonial milk and honey that many claim it is. I think there is a fundamental flaw in reasoning to suggest that a woman from the FSU is going to be a better partner than someone from a western country.To me this immediately lays blame for marriage difficulties in the western world on western women and lets western men off the hook for much of the divorce rate. It is always the way that when discussing foreign romances the opposite gender in ones own country is always the worst in the world and the grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side.Taking a look at personal sites for Russian romances an awful lot of these women are divorcees themselves and this, to me at least, shows they are NOT willing to to make sacrifices in order to have a family life, indeed many would prefer to be alone than to make sacrifices (before I get the abusive relationship thing thrown at me, not all have come from such relationships).

Posted by: I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

I remember when we were at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

GTR, it's still the same, you being nice to people and me being a miserable schit, telling people things they don't want to know.

I/O

Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

Chilli: LOL, please? Where did I say the provincial women were of lower quality? If I bend my brain enough, I can kinda see how you drew that conclusion, but I can assure you it is way wide of my thinking.

Chilli, regarding your theory (Seems to be the popular word right now), without boring you with history, early on, when I first considered this idea, somewhere around my second or third time in Russia (I was there first for other reasons), I felt much the same way. I have a rural background and now live in a small city (100 000 Pop), thus it seemed logical to me that it would be a difficult/impossible adjustment for a "metro" lady.

When considering RW, one is wise to consider history to an extent and that history must include the "Decemberists" being exiled to Irkutsk.
The result is that a real and decent RW may be prepared to make far more sacrifices than some guys are giving them credit for.

In my personal situation, my wife has moved from 1.3 million people with a better than mid class lifestyle and a wide social circle to a city of 100 000 and a miserble old bastard like me. Whether or not we ultimately succeed, only time will tell.

Continuing prolixity and getting way off the original topic, technology is one of the keys to helping a RW settle in a new area. Skype, webcams and such DO make a huge difference. Home is suddenly not quite so far removed.

Chilli, I guess the point I would like to make is that IMO it is more important to search where YOU are comfortable searching than it is to make theoretical judgements on what type of women exist where. If you are more comfortable moving in provincial locations, do just that, if you are comfortable moving in metro locations, do just that, BUT, look at the quality of the quarry, not the geography.

I/O

I/O
regarding provincial women, was looking for a qoute by you along these similar lines, can not find it at this time, maybe it was by another and I attribute it to you, seems my error, sorry
I do look at posts like yours with a little more weight, those who have actually succeeded in finding their mate (put still need to fit them into my personality and character) and appreciate your views, I know that there is no one way to success. I will say I am a little leary of the woman who lives in Moscow, 9 million plus people and then has to move to a town of 1000 if it is too big of an adjustment, because of this adjustment and not because perceived differences in attitude. One of my biggest concerns is without the RW having a reference point (no actual living experience in the west) of trying to describing acurately life in the west and more importantly small town life,I how do you explain that yes the town is only 1000 people and you live out in th middle of nowhere but everything you need, supermarkets, beauty salons, schools, resturants, cinemas theaterall can be found within 20-30 minutes of home? A genuine sincere woman from a small town has some form of life experience (small town life experience that is) where someone from Moscow my just feel it is just one too many issues to deal with. You point out a possible different attitude in RW using their history/culture but with this type of 'dating' of course the personal time spent together is limited in these relationships, can two people form that strong loving, devotional bond, to allow the 'decemberists' attitude to be strong enough?
Technology has made all of this possible, and helps to create this smaller world, you give me good food for thought and appreciate your help and insight.
I always look for quality of the person over quantity of availablity (may have a vital flaw in that the looks do need to match the intelligence), I do not need many just one, but it is how to position yourself best to find the one that is the trick.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Of course opinions are based on personal experiences, that is why everyone has their own opinion. I will say that my fiancee stayed with her cheating and drunken husband until he vanished about 17 years ago and she never heard from him again, then she filed for a divorce. If that isn't making a sacrifice to try to keep a family together, I don't know what is.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

GTR, it's still the same, you being nice to people and me being a miserable schit, telling people things they don't want to know.

I/O

HA HA HA HO HO HO HO HE HE HE

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

I knew you would throw that in, thats why I said NOT ALL had this type of relationship.

Posted by: I/O

Chilli: FWIW, I quote Mrs I/O when driving past some rural property a few days ago and my admiring it. "I/O if I lived here I would cry every day." Interestingly enough, weighty though her remarks were, she did NOT say she wouldn't or couldn't live there.

Oz: RW are NOT Goddesses. Guys who think they can cover their social ineptness, marital failures or dating cluelessness by going to Russia or nearby benefit only the airline companies. Divorce rate in Russia of near 70% suggests RW are quite capable of hitting the auto eject button if they so choose. A fool would think otherwise.

I/O

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

Oz: RW are NOT Goddesses. Guys who think they can cover their social ineptness, marital failures or dating cluelessness by going to Russia or nearby benefit only the airline companies. Divorce rate in Russia of near 70% suggests RW are quite capable of hitting the auto eject button if they so choose. A fool would think otherwise.

I/O

In a way I agree much of the problem here is social ineptitude, marital failures and dating cluelessness, but on the other side of the coin I would lay at least part of the blame for this type of thinking on people who are very forthright, articulate and convincing in discussion but who wear rose coloured glasses stating their ideas as facts. It leads people such as the socially inept etc. to form ideas based on nothing but someone else's possibly flawed personal opinion.

Now having said that, I think the only way to combat this is to show these are only opinions showing positive proof and not to engage in needless banter and popularity contests.

Posted by: I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

people such as the socially inept etc. to form ideas based on nothing but someone else's possibly flawed personal opinion.

I suggest, take an opinion, examine the logic AND the writer's record of achievement (Pertaining to that opinion), then decide if it is of any value. Problem is, the majority of the skirt chasers come to information boards after they have been suckered by the agency hype and run into problems.

I/O

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

I have no idea what this means Andy.

I'm glad you have found "the one" Andy. Too bad she won't marry you and left you at the alter. Wise up, she's only after your money and having a good time.

Just shows how much you don't know GTR.

Lets see... since her accident my lady has not worked a single day. Who is supplying her food and expenses? Not me. Seems like an opportunity to milk me for all it's worth if she wanted.

I'm about to fly out and see her tomorrow for the first time since the accident and am staying for two days in Zurich on the way back. I invited her to come with me. I have bought her ticket and booked the hotel already (refundable ticket). She declined saying it was too expensive.

About the only thing we have discussed paying for her on this trip is some new underwear given her changed body shape since the accident. Her mother could do this for her but she says it is more fun when it is with me.. I'm perfectly happy to oblige. (-:

We will generally eat at home and travel by bus and Metro.

For her birthday I offerred to take her and her mother out to a restaraunt for dinner. She declined saying we had all been invited to a friend's place for a BBQ and the only "cost" to me was could I bring some loose change from Oman and Dubai as a gift to the host as she collect coins?

This is a woman who's mother already owns multiple businesses and is in the process of building another. Her mother earns more money than I do.

Yep, I really think your on the money there GTR.. She's a good time girl all right.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

Yes both our comments were below the belt but if you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

I've explained this to Andy many times but he just doesn't get it.

GTR, your "sword" is so blunt it could barely cut water.

Posted by: deccie

Oh, and friends get to call me by my name GTR and your not and never will be one of them.

Kindly respect my privacy and address me by my username.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

people such as the socially inept etc. to form ideas based on nothing but someone else's possibly flawed personal opinion.

I suggest you don't partially quote things. I also suggest if you want people to look at your record then maybe you should cut the hype and stop "railing" against opinions that are perfectly logical when looked at in context (yes the partial quoting thing stuffed you up good and proper here).

I had a heap more typed up but in the interest of keeping this thread on track I have deleted it.

Posted by: I/O

Oz: When did you find "the one" and marry her? (Sorry if I missed it somewhere)

I/O

Posted by: Jill

Hark, the peace dove emoticon is swooping down on this thread.......

Let's all take it down a notch, OK?

Dear Abby once wrote a lovely column on "fighting fair" which I think we can all learn from:

Quote:

Learning to "fight fair" is an acquired skill, and like any other skill it takes self-control and practice. When people disagree, it is helpful to stay on the subject when talking it out. That means refraining from dragging in baggage from previous arguments.

.....

Another helpful technique is to ask yourself, before venting, "Is it true? Is it kind? It is hurtful? Is it helpful?" A trial lawyer once told me, "You can't unring the bell." This holds true in relationships as well as courtrooms.

Note in particular the bolded quote. It works well in forums, too

Posted by: clark

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

I stand corrected as he did use that verbatim. Although he did state that is the sort of advice he rails against. I didn't perceive it as being rude but offering an opposing view hence my objection. Perhaps my skin is a bit thicker than others.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking