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American schoolboy's diary

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Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
You point your finger to all that is wrong with America's gun laws (which you obviously are unfamiliar with) and at the same time Australia's recent crime statistics prove gun control doesn't deter crime. It would appear you just love to beat the drum in a parade, any parade will do.
Clark, Australia's crime rate is pretty static actually and gun crime has dropped, deaths from guns has dropped and what has risen is petty crime. This discussion is about guns, if you want to expand it to crime in general than give us the stats for the US and let us pick them apart.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pin Boy
yes jill, but you may be more comfortable speaking with someone of the same race and/or ethnicity about these problems, whereas people of different race/ethnicities may never discuss such problems and then they just fester and get worse. you can't discount what i said as not being a significant issue in america today. it's the spike lee film like "do the right thing" occurring in small town america.
OMG PB, there is one race on this planet and its called the HUMAN RACE, its talk like yours that justifies genocide and other equally insidious crimes.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pin Boy
debating gun control as it relates to the US is useless. there are sooooo many weapons, both legal and illegal, in people's hands it would take multiple generations to reverse the ownership of firearms. they are here to stay, fortunately or unfortunately. educating young people about the dangers, consequences, and (in some situations) the safe handling of guns is what needs to be done in the present time.

pb
How about educating them to show respect and caring for others, instead of the crap I am reading here from good American citizens. The children will be a product of their education teach them crap and they'll give it back.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkMike
LMFAO,

I just got this PM at another site in refrence to this thread .. (The view expressed is not necessairly mine)
"oi ,hear tell your being harassed by a couple of self opinated morons elsewhere lol

feed them to a bear mate
& people wondered why all the decent aussies bailed."
You mean the decent aussie who thought threatening bodily harm was an acceptable form of discussion and another who was somewhat loose with a thing called the truth. Let them stay at the other forum. It goes to show alot about people who tattle tale about others and then cut and run, I believe Mike you had had enough of this thread. Mike if you cant discuss your own problems without resorting to bringing in unverified comments supposedly from "decent aussies" who run away then you have a problem. Hmmmm Maybe thats why you lot need us to be your deputies in the South Pacific to keep all your enemies at bay.

Edit: The Richard Cranium that "wrote" the PM mustn't have much respect for Jill either as she seems to be agreeing with me and Deccie in this discussion from what I have been reading.

As for wondering why they bailed out iirc they left when they were sacked as Mods cause they were causing trouble weren't they.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
I love it when someone who does not live here, but lives in the middle east, defends people who kill others in the name of Religion. Just because you live with them deccie, does that mean you agree with what they are doing? I posted these pics to show what is going on in England, a place where there have not been as many attacks against them as Americans. There are more Muslims coming into this country than any other country in the world and you dont' think we need to be concerned? Remember 911, the marine barracks bombing, the USS Cole bombing, the first bombing of the twin towers. And we should not be concerned? Wake up will you, maybe your next door neighbor muslim friend can educate you on how Alla is better than anything, just don't disagree with him, you might get blown up for it.
Are you English? DO you live there? If not by your own writings to me you have NO RIGHT TO JUDGE what happens in England. Is that emphatic enough for you, now please stop your double standards and get back to a real discussion.


Posted by: AkMike

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
Actually, I do recall a few rampant tanks over the years. As well as a few APC's stolen by a few people. While an AT rifle would never penetrate something like an M60 let alone an Abrams it would do quite a good job on an M113.



Actually there haven't been any stray tanks or APC running loose within range.. But it's fun blasting junk cars and the engine blocks don't slow it down any.
There are actually quite a few elephant rifles here too and the only elephant in 2000 miles had placed her self in protective custody and then was extradited to the southland..
I guess we'll have to wait til the next ice age..


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
There are more Muslims coming into this country than any other country in the world and you dont' think we need to be concerned? Remember 911, the marine barracks bombing, the USS Cole bombing, the first bombing of the twin towers. And we should not be concerned? Wake up will you, maybe your next door neighbor muslim friend can educate you on how Alla is better than anything, just don't disagree with him, you might get blown up for it.
Questions, how many Americans are currently in Muslim countries? what are they there for? how many of these attacks happened in America? how many in Muslim countries? by far the majority of attacks on Americans are not in America yet the majority of American killings of Muslims are in Muslim countries.

If your in their country for a reason to do with the military expect to cop some crap. if your in their country "helping" set up a system like yours expect some crap. Your way is not the be all and end all, it does not work in your country very well cause you are arguing with each other about it, so don't expect others to welcome your ideas and methods with open arms cause it most certainly wont work in theirs.


Posted by: AkMike

even more off topic than this thread has twisted to....


Posted by: AkMike

And heres a 'mug shot' of a local homeboy gangbanger.






`Fo Schizzle!!!


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Mike, your the one twisting this thread, no one else, the rest of us are trying to have an adult discussion with a few slight diversions but you are just off this last few months.


Posted by: Pin Boy

boy we missed you guys so much around here...do you really think we don't educate kids to show respect and the consequences of their actions? OZ and Deccie have a bug up their behinds about the US that have bugs up their behinds, so it's useless debating with either one as they'll parse every post to death and never agree to disagree. so i'm going to, for the first time ever in almost five years on this forum, put both on my ignore list and ignore the nattering nabobs of negativity.

as for my post about hispanics, jill asked for a specific example and i gave one, and then you parse it to death with your attempted and constant air of superiority. who need people like you in their lives???

pb


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pin Boy
boy we missed you guys so much around here...do you really think we don't educate kids to show respect and the consequences of their actions? OZ and Deccie have a bug up their behinds about the US that have bugs up their behinds so it's useless debating wither one as they'll parse every post to death and never agree to disagree. so i'm going to, for the first time ever in almost five years on this forum, put both on my ignore list and ignore the nattering nabobs of negativiity.

as for my pots about hispanics, jill asked for a specific example and i gave one, and then you parse it to death with your attemped and constant air of superiority. who need people like you in their lives???

pb
yeah a specific example that you couldn't give. you say me and deccie have an air of superiority well me and deccie aren't the ones saying only White Christian Caucasions are any good.

How are your attempts at getting a meaningful relationship with an RW? has anyone said they want you in their life. You throw insult after insult at groups you dont like yet when someone pick at your groups you cry poor. PB your full of crap.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pin Boy
boy we missed you guys so much around here...do you really think we don't educate kids to show respect and the consequences of their actions? OZ and Deccie have a bug up their behinds about the US that have bugs up their behinds, so it's useless debating with either one as they'll parse every post to death and never agree to disagree. so i'm going to, for the first time ever in almost five years on this forum, put both on my ignore list and ignore the nattering nabobs of negativity.

as for my post about hispanics, jill asked for a specific example and i gave one, and then you parse it to death with your attempted and constant air of superiority. who need people like you in their lives???

pb


It seems the only ones who have a "bug up their ass" about this particular issue are those who advocate relatively unrestricted gun access and those who have a particular issue about certain segments of their own community be they muslim, black or otherwise.

Many who posted here posted comments like "how dare you judge us without knowing anything about America!" Yet at the same time doing exactly the same to a community they themselves villified. Pot - Kettle - Black.

I don't know how many comments about "the coming Muslim hordes" there has been on this thread - all without you knowing a single thing about that community - with the exception of the images you see on your TV or the attacks we all know so much about. How would you like to be judged according to the actions of a very select and minority group of Americans who abuse power? I submit to you that you would all be squealing like a stuck pig if and when that happened.

I would suggest to you that your position on this issue comes not because of a rational judgement of it but that you have an emotional attachment to your weapons!


Posted by: Jill

Quote:
yes jill, but you may be more comfortable speaking with someone of the same race and/or ethnicity about these problems


Actually, no. A person's race/ethnicity does not make me any more or less comfortable in such situations. To be honest, I really find this comment puzzling given that we are on a forum which promotes multi-cultural relationships. If someone is more comfortable and relates better to his "own kind", it seems odd that he/she would specifically seek out a relationship with a person from another culture. Or does it all come down to skin color?

Quote:
people wondered why all the decent aussies bailed


I would like to think that decent people are those who can listen to and discuss differing opinions without getting upset that not everyone thinks the same way as they do.

Quote:
I posted these pics to show what is going on in England,


There are nut jobs in every group. I however do not believe that such people represent the views of the majority. And for every Moslem extremist, you can also find a unabomber, a Timothy McVeigh, a school shooter (hmmm..seems all of those have been commited by white Americans so far, with the exception of Virginia Tech which was committed by an Asian American). The term "go postal" is uniquely American.


Posted by: Spakoyna

America Needs A Leader Like This!

Prime Minister John Howard - Australia (Pic Below)

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.



Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.



Quote:



'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians, as we have never seen before.'



'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.'



'We speak mainly ENGLISH … not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, then you have no choice but to learn "our" language!'



'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'



'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'



'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are finished complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom ….



'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.'



'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'



Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, American citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths.


Posted by: nocomfortzone

omg, can't believe how many pages I see of this thread. If you people put half as much passion into loving as you do arguing imagine where you might be....lol

You created a monster Yulia....lol

Thank God I'm not religious or obsessed with guns or other people having guns

I think you all need a good root...lol


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
America Needs A Leader Like This!

Prime Minister John Howard - Australia (Pic Below)

.


Just shows you how much you (DON'T) know about my country Spakonya.
As John Howard is no longer Prime Minister and even lost his own seat at the last election. Something that has rarely happened before in Australian Parliamentary history.

Perhaps before you go vaunting this man's qualities, perhaps you should do a little research into some of his less glamorous moments.

Try Googling "Children Overboard Affair" and "Peter Reith"


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill
To be honest, I really find this comment puzzling given that we are on a forum which promotes multi-cultural relationships. If someone is more comfortable and relates better to his "own kind", it seems odd that he/she would specifically seek out a relationship with a person from another culture.



Jill, as always you have managed to reach the heart of the matter very quickly.


Posted by: Spakoyna

That might be true Deccie....but that is one H of a speech! It's onna the roots of the differences You and Oz have between several of us US folks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
Just shows you how much you (DON'T) know about my country Spakonya.
As John Howard is no longer Prime Minister and even lost his own seat at the last election. Something that has rarely happened before in Australian Parliamentary history.

Perhaps before you go vaunting this man's qualities, perhaps you should do a little research into some of his less glamorous moments.

Try Googling "Children Overboard Affair" and "Peter Reith"



Posted by: deccie

Perhaps I'm wrong Spanky. Perhaps America does deserve John Howard.

It would be an interesting fit since HE is the person responsible for implementing the tough gun control measures so detested from the other American members here.

Please take him!


Posted by: nocomfortzone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
That might be true Deccie....but that is one H of a speech!


I have to admit that really does not sound like John Howard.
He is a bit too conservative for some of the lines you were quoting above.

and yes, he is no longer prime minister, got voted out last year and lost his own election seat aswell. Never seen that happen before where pm not only has his party lose but he loses his own seat aswell in federal parliament

He was pretty chummy with George Bush...sickingly so..

that is politics for you.... blah...


Posted by: sidney

Quote:
I don't know how many comments about "the coming Muslim hordes" there has been on this thread - all without you knowing a single thing about that community - with the exception of the images you see on your TV or the attacks we all know so much about. How would you like to be judged according to the actions of a very select and minority group of Americans who abuse power? I submit to you that you would all be squealing like a stuck pig if and when that happened.


You're doing exactly that with your debate about guns in america. You've exampled only things that you've seen on TV. I live in the gun community and this doesn't happen in my life. Yea watch any rambo show and you'd thnk there were machineguns on every street. This is not the case. The vast majority of gun ownership in america is by upstanding lawabiding individuals not the crap that is portraid on TV.
Sid


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking
Are you English? DO you live there? If not by your own writings to me you have NO RIGHT TO JUDGE what happens in England. Is that emphatic enough for you, now please stop your double standards and get back to a real discussion.

Who was judging? There was not even the slightest hint of any judgement in my post. If you would have bothered to read the post about the pictures I posted you would realize that I know it was in England and not the US, you would also realize that I was making a point about the Muslim people's violence against anyone who is against Islam. Of course as you always do, you read too much into the posts here, maybe you should take the posts you read at face value and quit trying to read into them some other motive to fit your own argument. I don't judge England, I don't judge Australia, because I dont' live there and don't have a clue as to what you have to deal with. But you seem to like to pick apart anything and everything that has to do with the US. Are you jealous of us or something, are you mad because your being taxed to death and don't have the freedoms we do? Is that why you constantly criticize anything that has to do with us over here? I just wonder when you will start calling us "Infidels"


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking
Questions, how many Americans are currently in Muslim countries? what are they there for? how many of these attacks happened in America? how many in Muslim countries? by far the majority of attacks on Americans are not in America yet the majority of American killings of Muslims are in Muslim countries.

If your in their country for a reason to do with the military expect to cop some crap. if your in their country "helping" set up a system like yours expect some crap. Your way is not the be all and end all, it does not work in your country very well cause you are arguing with each other about it, so don't expect others to welcome your ideas and methods with open arms cause it most certainly wont work in theirs.

Other than the 2 wars in Iraq, when did Americans kill muslims? Of course most of the attacks against americans happened in other countries, its easier to do than to attack us here on our own soil, DUH! And can you tell me how many Americans are in Muslim countries (other than the millitary)? You seem to know so much about us. I believe its a fraction of the number here in the US. In fact, I doubt the numbers are even remotely close.


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkMike
And heres a 'mug shot' of a local homeboy gangbanger.






`Fo Schizzle!!!

Tupak reincarnated...LOL


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pin Boy
who need people like you in their lives???

pb

Maybe thats why he's still single with no firm prospects on the horizon...LOL


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking
yeah a specific example that you couldn't give. you say me and deccie have an air of superiority well me and deccie aren't the ones saying only White Christian Caucasions are any good.


HUH! Where did you get that idea, I seen no mention of anyone saying anything about White Christian Caucasions. Oh, I forgot, its that read between the lines again that you seem to like to do instead of taking the posts people write at face value in which they were written. Are you not a White Caucasion? Are you not any good?


Posted by: AkMike

`nuff said


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkMike
`nuff said

Bravo Mike, good pic. But you may need to translate for the Aussie's, it is kinda blurry....LOL


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
Other than the 2 wars in Iraq, when did Americans kill muslims? Of course most of the attacks against americans happened in other countries, its easier to do than to attack us here on our own soil, DUH! And can you tell me how many Americans are in Muslim countries (other than the millitary)? You seem to know so much about us. I believe its a fraction of the number here in the US. In fact, I doubt the numbers are even remotely close.
I asked you a question cause I think it needs answering not because I know the answer. You know you lot seem to forget that me and deccie are not the only ones here making a damm good counter argument against you, Jill and Chilli have put forth very lucid points yet all most of you lot can and will do is attack people who are different to you or attack me and deccie cause we aren't American. Go figure huh.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
Maybe thats why he's still single with no firm prospects on the horizon...LOL
Hahahahaha, I believe your in the same boat or are you on the RMP to share your immense wisdom of RWs cause I haven't seen much wisdom from you.


Posted by: Spakoyna

Damn OZ! That was the hypocritcal post I believe I have ever read here! That is you to a tee!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking
yet all most of you lot can and will do is attack people who are different to you or attack me and deccie cause we aren't American. Go figure huh.



Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
HUH! Where did you get that idea, I seen no mention of anyone saying anything about White Christian Caucasions. Oh, I forgot, its that read between the lines again that you seem to like to do instead of taking the posts people write at face value in which they were written. Are you not a White Caucasion? Are you not any good?

Well when you are bashing muslims and blacks and non caucasions who is left? figure it out blue or is that to hard for you?


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking
Hahahahaha, I believe your in the same boat or are you on the RMP to share your immense wisdom of RWs cause I haven't seen much wisdom from you.

I am in the same boat per se as being single like yourself, but unlike you, I have a strong prospect for the future with my lady. I never claimed any wisdom in this area, even if I did, you would just knock it down and insert your own ideas as being superior anyway, so why bother.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkMike
`nuff said

Oh Mike thank you for giving us so much amunition against you. Look at how many of those dates are not on American soil. What ARE you doing in foriegn countries when it is SO obvious you are not wanted there? You keep getting told leave our lands and when the attacks start happening you all of a sudden take it as though you weren't warned. Leave others alone and I would bet you would be left alone to, you are making a rid for your own backs and you are the ones whinging about it.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
Bravo Mike, good pic. But you may need to translate for the Aussie's, it is kinda blurry....LOL
Pathetic blue pathetic.


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
Damn OZ! That was the hypocritcal post I believe I have ever read here! That is you to a tee!

I think we all need to bow down in the presence of greatness. Here's to you Oz


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
Damn OZ! That was the hypocritcal post I believe I have ever read here! That is you to a tee!
Show me one post where I have attacked an entire group of people based on the actions of a minority!!!!! You all know there are some Americans I have alot of respect for, Kash and Jill are but 2 of them, so you tell me wheer I am a hypocrit and give real examples in this regard.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
I am in the same boat per se as being single like yourself, but unlike you, I have a strong prospect for the future with my lady. I never claimed any wisdom in this area, even if I did, you would just knock it down and insert your own ideas as being superior anyway, so why bother.
You dont know my prospects for the future you are summising something you have no idea about, but thats what you do isn't it. Why is it that people like you and pb and mike and spak get personal when you are loosing an argument. Also why aren't you throwing the same insults at your american compatriats who are agreeing with me and deccie? sorry guys your a low bunch now.


Posted by: AkMike

Thanks BC
I recon that if the Ozzies were in a similar situation thatthey'd have a different perspective than at presant.. But maybe not. Maybe it's better to lay garlands of flowers down on the ground for them to step on as they bomb and kill everyone.


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking
Well when you are bashing muslims and blacks and non caucasions who is left? figure it out blue or is that to hard for you?

Who's bashing? Was it not Muslims who did the terrorist attacks? Was it not blacks that did the LA riots? Was it not the Mexicans who did a massive protest last year over Bush's resolution on illegal aliens? Im not bashing Oz, just stating fact. Or is that too hard for you to figure out, oh thats right, you read between the lines again and didn't get the real meaning of my posts. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


Posted by: AkMike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pin Boy
. so i'm going to, for the first time ever in almost five years on this forum, put both on my ignore list and ignore the nattering nabobs of negativity.pb



It's only been about 4 1/2 for me but this just earned my second one ever anywhere.

Kind of sad that it degraded to this especially since this is so far off topic from anything resembleing the FSU or the ladies there.


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking
You dont know my prospects for the future you are summising something you have no idea about, but thats what you do isn't it. Why is it that people like you and pb and mike and spak get personal when you are loosing an argument. Also why aren't you throwing the same insults at your american compatriats who are agreeing with me and deccie? sorry guys your a low bunch now.

I and the rest here on RMP know your prospects, you posted them. Just going by what you posted, or should I read between them lines also?


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkMike
Thanks BC
I recon that if the Ozzies were in a similar situation thatthey'd have a different perspective than at presant.. But maybe not. Maybe it's better to lay garlands of flowers down on the ground for them to step on as they bomb and kill everyone.
You are so paranoid. Stop with the "everyones out to get us" crap, move out of their countries and move on with life in your own.


Posted by: blucatz

I wonder if Oz would be running his mouth this way if he were face to face with a bunch of Americans, or is he just another "Forum Rambo" saying whatever knowing he would never have to back up his statements in person. Just a thought.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
I and the rest here on RMP know your prospects, you posted them. Just going by what you posted, or should I read between them lines also?
I also said there is ONE lady I have not said anything about or did you forget to read that in your hurry to get deep into my personal life. I dont tell you lot 5% of what happens in my life or search and I dont do it cause it has nothing to do with you. So again Blu you are making summations based on your feelings of what you think you know in amongst what is actually reality. Your getting pretty slimy now blu, how much further can you sink into the depths of slackness?


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
I wonder if Oz would be running his mouth this way if he were face to face with a bunch of Americans, or is he just another "Forum Rambo" saying whatever knowing he would never have to back up his statements in person. Just a thought.

hahahaha that is so funny, ok lets see you in amongst a bunch of muslims and see if you would behave the same way you are now. It seems as though you are behaving this way now cause your safe on an American based forum with a majority member base of Americans.

Read my posts again blu, I have American relatives and friends. I tell them what I think like I do here. Lets see you do what you want me to do, and I have already done thank you very much cause I dont need to go to America to do it.


Posted by: Spakoyna

(Scratches Head) Arguement? What arguement? This here's a puter war! Christians defending the right to own guns against atheists defending Muslims,lazy people who will not work,immigrants who refuse to accept the culture of the country they move to,...this list coiuld go on and on! DUCK! Fire on the screen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking
You dont know my prospects for the future you are summising something you have no idea about, but thats what you do isn't it. Why is it that people like you and pb and mike and spak get personal when you are loosing an argument. Also why aren't you throwing the same insults at your american compatriats who are agreeing with me and deccie? sorry guys your a low bunch now.



Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking
hahahaha that is so funny, ok lets see you in amongst a bunch of muslims and see if you would behave the same way you are now. It seems as though you are behaving this way now cause your safe on an American based forum with a majority member base of Americans.

Read my posts again blu, I have American relatives and friends. I tell them what I think like I do here. Lets see you do what you want me to do, and I have already done thank you very much cause I dont need to go to America to do it.

I do talk this way in front of muslims, you know what, I dont' give a crap what they do. I deal with them everyday in my job. It doesn't matter that this is an American forum or not, would not curb my thoughts whatsoever. I don't back down at all. By the way, what part of Australia do you live? I am planning on coming to Perth next spring, maybe we should meet up and you can explain your theories on the US to me at that time, on your own soil.


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking
Your getting pretty slimy now blu, how much further can you sink into the depths of slackness?

Slimy? You attack my country's way of life and you call me slimy? I have not said one negative remark about your country. As far as your personal life, who cares? I just go by what you post, if its only 5%, then it sounds like your using your brain to capacity then.


Posted by: blucatz

I want to apoligize to everyone on this thread, its gotten way out of hand. I normally don't leave posts like the ones I have left here. I kinda get fired up when someone attacks my country and way of life without ever even lived here. Again, I extend my apoligies to everyone here.


Posted by: Testman

I remember posting about how a number of foreign women will like to marry an American man, based only on the mystique of marrying one. (I have a friend who has traveled all over the world, who can vouch for this fact) But when I made that statement about women and American men, this Aussie comes in and starts attacking me, accusing me of saying America was better than everyone, which I never said! In fact, I am generally displeased with Americans, as I know they used to be better than what they are now. However, its that exact same type if mis-perception that I was referring to when I said a growing number of other countries are becoming like Americans.


Posted by: Jill

Allright, guys, I've got to put on my moderator hat for a minute here....

There are a lot of interesting perspectives being expressed on this thread, but y'all are going to have to behave yourselves in a proper manner for this thread to continue.

Disagreeing is fine. Disagreeing is great. Debate is a vital part of this forum and of our society as a whole.

But name calling and personal insults are not permitted. Any more of it, and warnings are going out, posts will be deleted, and the thread closed.

So think before you post.

I'll stop short of calling for a group hug


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill
I'll stop short of calling for a group hug



Group Hug, Group Hug, can you feel the love here?


Posted by: Chillidog

I am glad I backed out of this thread on post 105, as I said in my post #100 I was afraid the mug slinging would begin, and to me that is never good, and we all lose no matter what side we take. It does not matter anymore in this thread what each person's views are, it has become 'trying to force your views on others', this is no longer a civilized discussion. I stated my views and thoughts, they were mostly different then the majority of my country mates, but that is OK with me and I hope with those I was responding to, just sorry I played a part in taking this thread down this road.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
I kinda get fired up when someone attacks my country and way of life without ever even lived here.


Again, I'll ask, want to move here and see this place with your own eyes?


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkMike
`nuff said


oh come on Mike. You can do better than that.

Perhaps you have heard of the two Bali Bombings at which a large number of Australians were killed?

No one here has said to my knowledge that acts of violence are not to be abhorred and that countries and people do have a right to self defence. But as is typical in these debates a "scorched earth" policy is applied and it becomes all or nothing.

Just taking one item on your list - the Bombing of the US Embassy in Lebanon.

Do you not think the Lebanese themselves are crying over what has happened to their country? Their country has become a playground for others and it is their own people who suffer on a daily basis. Including invasion. There are Christian factions and there are Muslim factions and they are equally to blame for the quagmire that country finds itself in. I know and work with several Lebanese guys here and they are in tears just about any time they start talking about their country.

Right now they can't even elect a new president because of the various factions!


Posted by: Spakoyna

LOL! Oz asked why we weren't chastizing the 2 who took his view! We were just saving you from the Democrat-Republican arguements! I can't say there has been that much name calling. Just a hint! Sure isn't like some of the threads which use to boil!

So Youlik! What do you think of this thread now? I must say it has been quite entertaining for me and does make me see how far apart people's views can be from one another.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
Bravo Mike, good pic. But you may need to translate for the Aussie's, it is kinda blurry....LOL


And perhaps like Most Americans you never knew Australia fought with the US in Korea. We fought with you in Vietnam (including my father). We fight with you in Iraq (but are now pulling out) and we continue to fight with you in Afghanistan (and our effort will be expanded).

However, such support does not mean any of these issues should escape debate because at the very least we need to make sure we get the right people!


Posted by: nocomfortzone

Quote:
I was afraid the mug slinging would begin, and to me that is never good, and we all lose no matter what side we take. It does not matter anymore in this thread what each person's views are, it has become 'trying to force your views on others', this is no longer a civilized discussion.


most rational and sensible comment for some time on this thread.

I honestly cannot believe how big this thread has become in such a short time.
I barely read much of the differing views but I read enough to know some of the major contributors to it's length got some serious issues getting along with people from differing cultures and how they identify themselves.

I guess in this big global village going to have an abundance of views but some just cannot agree to disagree and move on.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
Was it not Muslims who did the terrorist attacks?


Muslim is a description but it doesn't exactly tell you much.
I would suggest the country of origin tells you a great deal more.


Posted by: Pin Boy

but jill your experience is not everyone else's; you're the exception not the norm. i can never envision my parents confronting or engaging a hispanic neighbor regarding an issue and they are not racists. it's just foreign (no pun intended) to them. i grew up in and have lived the majority of my life, but not all, in small town america. i deal with this everyday as an ESL teacher. you asked for a specific example and i gave you one that is happening daily. i wish you would acknowledge it as such. california is not america joking!

pb


Posted by: Jerico

Quote:
What ARE you doing in foriegn countries when it is SO obvious you are not wanted there? You keep getting told leave our lands and when the attacks start happening you all of a sudden take it as though you weren't warned. Leave others alone and I would bet you would be left alone to


First statement I agree with OZ. No argument here.
If they dont want us there, no problem .
We should pull out of all these countrys and let them fend for themselves and they can get back to killing each other without us to blame for it.

Of course pulling out would also mean no foreign aid such as money for Aids in Africa, no weapons, no food. period.
Because as you stated OZ , " They dont want us there"
Unless of course they pay for them like everybody else.

People would probably starve in some of these countrys but hey they hate us right? but they probably still want the free food and weapons ,medicine or whatever.
those things I imagine they like of the USA.
Give us your things but just dont deliver them yourselves because we hate you Americans !!!!.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerico
First statement I agree with OZ. No argument here.
If they dont want us there, no problem .
We should pull out of all these countrys and let them fend for themselves and they can get back to killing each other without us to blame for it.



This is where I disagree with Oz. I think the isolationist policy is also the wrong way to go and it already was tried and to a certain extent led to problems in World War One and World War Two.

Personally I think there is a happy medium between isolationism and intervention. The problem of the US is that sometimes the US intervenes not because of matters of national security or other really serious issues but because a government in another country does not fit the objectives or ideology of the US government. e.g. Chile e.g. Grenada. e.g. Nicaragua. I'm never going to say ALL US intervention is bad but it always needs to have very clearly defined objectives and once those objectives are met - GET OUT!

Of the Grenada Invasion, Margaret Thatcher wrote "This action will be seen as intervention by a Western country in the internal affairs of a small independent nation, however unattractive its regime. I ask you to consider this in the context of our wider East-West relations and of the fact that we will be having in the next few days to present to our Parliament and people the siting of Cruise missiles in this country...I cannot conceal that I am deeply disturbed by your latest communication."

And this from a hard line US supporter!


Posted by: Jerico

Well Deccie i agree with you to a point.
I`ll be the first one to say that I dont always agree with what my country does or where it decides to go.

I am not privee to the backdoor talk that the Government does.
So i cant justify where we go but being that my country is generally civil I assume we have good reasons for going to these places.

As far as Iraq? I do think its time to either step up the pace or get out.
Again i am not privee to inside info on this topic but from what many soldiers say ,the people appreciate us over there. i just wish it was faster is all.

I will tell you that i am also not a big fan of Bush.
Hes far to Liberal for my taste and he is Republican but not a conservative at all!!! JMO


Posted by: Spakoyna

I myself wish the US would close the doors to all our tax money going to all those that don't appreciate our help. All the people in the US would be on easy street if we had closed our borders after WW2. Think about it! We are one of the few countries that could've been totally self sufficient!

Yes, the US does stick it's nose in.....but usually because a government is threatening allies or the US. There is also the humanitarian aspect we seem to become envolved in. This all happens because of our melting pot. Our immigrants who are concerned about people from their homeland.

The whole anti-American veiw from the Muslems evolved from the US's help and support for the formation of Isreal. That my friends is because there are many Jewish immigrants here.

I just hope the world doesn't go boom before we all figure out yes! There is a way we can all live together before we commit suicide.

OK Oz! Get out your butcher knife!


Posted by: AkMike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
I myself wish the US would close the doors to all our tax money going to all those that don't appreciate our help. All the people in the US would be on easy street if we had closed our borders after WW2.



Question.....


" When you apply for Welfare in Mexico what does that Government give you?"











Answer: A map of the United States


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
I myself wish the US would close the doors to all our tax money going to all those that don't appreciate our help. All the people in the US would be on easy street if we had closed our borders after WW2. Think about it! We are one of the few countries that could've been totally self sufficient!

I find this view quite bizare to say the least. Especially since the USA is itself a nation descended from immigrants. It is from the labours of those immigrants that the USA rose. It just seems quite bizare to me that suddenly now immigration is the root of evil in the US. I really don't understand it at all.

A lot the work that the illegals in the USA do is work that most Americans would not touch. Construction work, fruit picking or other farm labour work, hosiptality work. Much of it low paid and without benefits because they are illegal.

The US economy benefits quite a lot from the work these people do whether they are illegal or not. That's exactly why the political parties are reluctant to do much about it. They know the impact on food prices if farmers were suddenly unable to pick their crops, the impact on house prices if there was no one to do unpleasant labouring jobs. And so on and so on.

Spakonya, you wrote above that you would like the US to close it's borders. Just how would you have got your wife to the US if that had been the case?

No doubt you would want an exemption for your partner's immigration.


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
I find this view quite bizare to say the least. Especially since the USA is itself a nation descended from immigrants. It is from the labours of those immigrants that the USA rose. It just seems quite bizare to me that suddenly now immigration is the root of evil in the US. I really don't understand it at all.

A lot the work that the illegals in the USA do is work that most Americans would not touch. Construction work, fruit picking or other farm labour work, hosiptality work. Much of it low paid and without benefits because they are illegal.

The US economy benefits quite a lot from the work these people do whether they are illegal or not. That's exactly why the political parties are reluctant to do much about it. They know the impact on food prices if farmers were suddenly unable to pick their crops, the impact on house prices if there was no one to do unpleasant labouring jobs. And so on and so on.

Spakonya, you wrote above that you would like the US to close it's borders. Just how would you have got your wife to the US if that had been the case?

No doubt you would want an exemption for your partner's immigration.

Its not the fact of all the immigrants coming here is the problem, its the way they are coming here. I myself is a product of immigration (great Grandfather and Grandmother came from Italy thru Ellis Island). The only true natural Americans here are the American Indians, if you can find one anymore. I have a problem with them sneaking under the fence to get here, and the way the government gives out welfare benefits to them (even though the government is against illegal immigrants). I hear talk on the radio all the time "hey greaser, go back to Mexico" or "Towel head, speak english". I usually tell the person making these comments that he doesn't sound like an Native American Indian to me and what if people treated his ancestors that way, maybe he wouldn't be born.

You know how hard it is to become a legal citizen here, thats why there are so many illegals. If you want to come here, great, welcome, but do it legally like my Grandfather did and like I will do someday with my FSU wife (hopefully).


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerico
First statement I agree with OZ. No argument here.
If they dont want us there, no problem .
We should pull out of all these countrys and let them fend for themselves and they can get back to killing each other without us to blame for it.

Of course pulling out would also mean no foreign aid such as money for Aids in Africa, no weapons, no food. period.
Because as you stated OZ , " They dont want us there"
Unless of course they pay for them like everybody else.

People would probably starve in some of these countrys but hey they hate us right? but they probably still want the free food and weapons ,medicine or whatever.
those things I imagine they like of the USA.
Give us your things but just dont deliver them yourselves because we hate you Americans !!!!.
Jerry with all due resepct we have been here before and you still aren't listening. There is a concept called ghost acres and it refers to the amount of land taken by one country out of another to feed their people and give them the luxuries they want in life. In a previous thread I stated America uses more ghost acres than anyone else and mentioned the Malthusian dilema, I was not being smart and still am not being smart. People around the world are starving and dying because the west uses more than their fair share. I am sorry if this hurts your sensibilities but if we take we damm well should give back something and if that is medical assistance then I am all for it. You may have difficulty thinking your own countrymen and women deserve medical help, i dont as my country does it already, i understand why you think the rest of the planet should just die but it isn't because i agree with you, infact i am disgusted with your pov, it is because i see that you dont understand what it is like to see people you love starving in front of you.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
OK Oz! Get out your butcher knife!
I have made my last point in this thread, i think when a debate gets reduced to personal insults then the people involved should just call it quits.

I apologise formally to everyone.


Posted by: sidney

Yes Oz it does get too personal at times.
I wasn't gonna go beyond trying to explain to other americans but I seemed to have gotten drawn in somehow. I find it easier to explain my views with someone living here, especially events in my life. I feel the rest of the world judges too much from american TV movies especially when I see posts about machine guns and anti-tank guns and their involvement in crime. Just doesn't happen for obvious reasons.
Sid


Posted by: Jill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pin Boy
but jill your experience is not everyone else's; you're the exception not the norm. i can never envision my parents confronting or engaging a hispanic neighbor regarding an issue and they are not racists. it's just foreign (no pun intended) to them. i grew up in and have lived the majority of my life, but not all, in small town america. i deal with this everyday as an ESL teacher. you asked for a specific example and i gave you one that is happening daily. i wish you would acknowledge it as such. california is not america joking!

pb



OK, fair enough. My point is that not ALL Americans hold the same views on these issues, which is what seems to have been implied in some posts.


Posted by: clark

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking
Jerry with all due resepct we have been here before and you still aren't listening. There is a concept called ghost acres and it refers to the amount of land taken by one country out of another to feed their people and give them the luxuries they want in life. In a previous thread I stated America uses more ghost acres than anyone else and mentioned the Malthusian dilema, I was not being smart and still am not being smart. People around the world are starving and dying because the west uses more than their fair share. I am sorry if this hurts your sensibilities but if we take we damm well should give back something and if that is medical assistance then I am all for it. You may have difficulty thinking your own countrymen and women deserve medical help, i dont as my country does it already, i understand why you think the rest of the planet should just die but it isn't because i agree with you, infact i am disgusted with your pov, it is because i see that you dont understand what it is like to see people you love starving in front of you.


Ozguy,

Man you are really "out there". No country has given so much, to so many as has the US in humanitarian aid. In technology, militarily, financial aid as well as food subsidies. Your Malthusian dilemma theory is completely irrelevent and does not apply to, nor support your POV. Aside from a worthless beach in Cuba, the US has not taken one single acre from any country at anytime except to bury our dead when fighting for anothers country. The US is self supporting and does feed itself as well. It is one of the many things that make this country great. Wherever there is US interest on a foreign land it is normally a capitalistic adventure and invited by the host country for economic reasons. Where it is a military venture (Iraq being the current exception) it is usually the result of the same type invitation. Malthusian dilemma is completely irrelevent when referring to USA.

Ozguy, our reputation worldwide is in the gutter and has been for quite sometime. Even prior to the Iraqi invasion. The world's outlook and opinion of the US is based on several factors but for the last 30 years or so, mainly our Middle East policies and our support of Israel. We've had some bad policies and some knucklehead leaders, the current one is no exception. Yes the US has forced it's will against other nations, both strong-armed and economical. Whether it was right or wrong, we'll have to let history be the judge of that.


Posted by: BluesTraveler

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
Aside from a worthless beach in Cuba, the US has not taken one single acre from any country at anytime except to bury our dead when fighting for anothers country.

Marshall Islands, Solomon Islands, Hawaii, US Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, Northern Marianas, Baker Island, Howland Island, Jarvis Island, Kingman Reef, Midway Islands, Navassa Island, Palau, Palmyra Atoll,
U.S. Virgin Islands, Wake Island, Micronesia.....

Yup, You are right. The good ole USA never has taken one single acre, we have taken thousands of acres.


Posted by: BluesTraveler

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
I find this view quite bizare to say the least. Especially since the USA is itself a nation descended from immigrants. It is from the labours of those immigrants that the USA rose. It just seems quite bizare to me that suddenly now immigration is the root of evil in the US. I really don't understand it at all.

I don't immigration is the issue - it is the illegal immigration that is the issue. IF the USA opened its borders and allowed everyone in, like they did in the past. The USA would be flooded with new immigrants. The problem would be that with a flood of new immigrants the necessary social services would not be able to keep up. We wouldn't have enough schools, police, fireman, etc. We would get into a very chaotic situation very quickly.

USA wants new immigrants (I know could have fooled me too), USA wants new immigrants to come in legally, and at a controllable and sustainable growth rate.


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesTraveler
Marshall Islands, Solomon Islands, Hawaii, US Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, Northern Marianas, Baker Island, Howland Island, Jarvis Island, Kingman Reef, Midway Islands, Navassa Island, Palau, Palmyra Atoll,
U.S. Virgin Islands, Wake Island, Micronesia.....

Yup, You are right. The good ole USA never has taken one single acre, we have taken thousands of acres.

Lets see, Marshall Islands, we are not there, I know because I was there in the Navy, we have no base or anything there. Hawaii asked to be part of the US, same with US Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico. Guam, we only have a millitary base there, not sure if it is still open. Midway Islands, have not been there since WW2. Don't know about the others cause I never heard of them. Maybe we are or were there because we were asked to be, or as a result of a millitary conflict, I don't know. Next maybe you will say we took Alaska from the Eskimos.


Posted by: BluesTraveler

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
Lets see, Marshall Islands, we are not there,

Kwajalein atoll, Marshall Islands -- Home to the Ronald Regan US Missile defense system. Yup, the US has civilians and limited military presence there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
Hawaii asked to be part of the US

Thousands of Native Hawaiians would disagree with you. Especially the Hawaiian Royal Family. The islands were taken by force by local business men with the support of the US government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
US Virgin Islands

Purchased from Denmark -- although Denmark shouldn't have "owned" them in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
Guam, we only have a millitary base there, not sure if it is still open.

Anderson AFB is alive and well, and expanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
Alaska from the Eskimos.

Russians did -- and then the US took it.


Posted by: clark

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesTraveler
Kwajalein atoll, Marshall Islands -- Home to the Ronald Regan US Missile defense system. Yup, the US has civilians and limited military presence there.
Eleven of the 97 islands are leased by the United States and are part of the Ronald Reagan Ballistic Missile Defense Test Site (RTS), formerly known as Kwajalein Missile Range. RTS includes radar installations, optics, telemetry, and communications equipment which are used for ballistic missile and missile interceptor testing and space operations support. Kwajalein hosts one of three ground antennas (others are on Diego Garcia and Ascension Island) that assist in the operation of the Global Positioning System (GPS) navigational system.


Thousands of Native Hawaiians would disagree with you. Especially the Hawaiian Royal Family. The islands were taken by force by local business men with the support of the US government.

Clearly a mistruth. US Marines landed to enfore neutrality between the Queen and the Provisional Government (American and Europeon businessmen). The Provisional Government was not the USA.

Purchased from Denmark -- although Denmark shouldn't have "owned" them in the first place.

During the submarine warfare phases of the First World War, the United States, fearing that the islands might be seized by Germany as a submarine base, again approached Denmark with a view to buying them. After a few months of negotiations, a selling price of $25 million was agreed.

Anderson AFB is alive and well, and expanding.

The United States took control of the island in the 1898 Spanish-American War. Guam came to serve as a station for American ships traveling to and from the Philippines, while the northern Mariana islands passed to Germany then Japan.[2] During World War II, Guam was attacked, and invaded, by the armed forces of Japan on December 8, 1941. The United States returned and fought the Battle of Guam on July 21, 1944, to recapture the island from Japanese military occupation.

Russians did -- and then the US took it.


The area that became Alaska was purchased from the Russian Empire on March 30, 1867, for 7.2 million dollars. The land went through several administrative changes before becoming an organized territory on May 11, 1912 and the 49th state of the U.S. on January 3, 1959.


Posted by: blucatz

Sounds like we purchased or leased this land you say we took from other nations. And you only proved that we have small millitary presence on the little islands (for which they were compensated for). So where did we supposedly TAKE thousands of acres from other nations? Sounds no different from other nations purchasing land for their own benefit. Surely we did not take it and force these people to live under our rule. US Virging Islands, Puerto Rico still do things their way. Guam is only a millitary base, the Guamanian government still runs the show and Guam was compensated for the use of the land for the base. Oh and ask the Hawaiin Royal family if they would have liked us there when the Japanese attacked? Yes they attacked our naval base, but considering their stradegy for taking islands accross the pacific on their way to the US, I think they would have appreciated our presence their. Besides I was stationed at Pearl for 2 years, lived amongst the locals and sensed no ill will toward the US being there whatsoever.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesTraveler
Kwajalein atoll, Marshall Islands -- Home to the Ronald Regan US Missile defense system. Yup, the US has civilians and limited military presence there.


Don't forget that other long lasting "gift" to the Marshall Islanders. The Ätomic Fleet". As The Marshall Islands is where most of the Naval Atom Blasts were set off post war.

A pity the gift cost the islanders the ability to live on and eat the food of some their islands.

Kwajelein also has some radioactive ships on it's shores and in it's waters. One being the Prinz Eugen and another being the USS Pennsylvania.


Posted by: clark

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
Don't forget that other long lasting "gift" to the Marshall Islanders. The Ätomic Fleet". As The Marshall Islands is where most of the Naval Atom Blasts were set off post war.

A pity the gift cost the islanders the ability to live on and eat the food of some their islands.

Kwajelein also has some radioactive ships on it's shores and in it's waters. One being the Prinz Eugen and another being the USS Pennsylvania.


Although the Marshall Islands was officially granted independence from the United States, and became an independent republic in 1986, Kwajalein atoll is still used by the United States for missile testing and various other operations. While this military history has deeply influenced the lives of the Marshall Islanders who have lived in the atoll through the war to the present, the military history of Kwajalein has made tourism almost non-existent and has kept the environment in relatively pristine condition. American civilians and their families who reside at the military installations in Kwajalein are able to enjoy this environment with few restrictions. Kwajalein lagoon offers excellent wreck diving of mostly Japanese ships, a few planes and the German heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen. Spear fishing and deep sea fishing are also exceptional. 80 degree water temperature and 100 foot visibility are common when scuba diving on the ocean side of the atoll


Posted by: deccie

I'm not sure what the purpose of your post is Clark.

Perhaps you would know more about the Atomic fleet if you read "Ghost Fleet" by James P Delgado. I can highly recommend it. It's one of the books I read most frequently in my library and one I brought with me to Oman.

Most of the Atomic tests themselves were conducted on and around Bikini Atoll. Prinz Eugen was towed to Kwajelein after the tests and sank there as did other ships.


Posted by: BluesTraveler

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
Oh and ask the Hawaiin Royal family if they would have liked us there when the Japanese attacked?

WW2 occurred 45-50 years after the trade merchants with the support of the US Government, illegally took over a sovereign nation. And there are plenty of Hawaiians who want their lands back. The Office of Hawaiian Affairs and the Kau Inoa bill submitted in the US Congress, testify to this feeling.

I am so glad that in the last few years the US hasn't invade any sovereign nations, and disposed of the ruling government. It is really good we don't do that any more.

Anyways...this thread is so way off topic..... What started from the posting of a xenophobic joke, to criticism of the average intelligence of an American, to gun rights, to discussions of US territories and possessions. Amazing how the threads went.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesTraveler
Marshall Islands, Solomon Islands, Hawaii, US Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, Northern Marianas, Baker Island, Howland Island, Jarvis Island, Kingman Reef, Midway Islands, Navassa Island, Palau, Palmyra Atoll,
U.S. Virgin Islands, Wake Island, Micronesia.....

Yup, You are right. The good ole USA never has taken one single acre, we have taken thousands of acres.



Some of those should not be on the list.

The Solomon Islands being one. The Solomon Islands was seized by the US from the Japanese in the second world war. Before then it was a British Colony.

It is now an independant nation although one that is very troubled. And one of the most beautiful places in the world.

HMAS Canberra is one of the many ships that lie in her waters.
I've been there. It's a special place.


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesTraveler
WW2 occurred 45-50 years after the trade merchants with the support of the US Government, illegally took over a sovereign nation. And there are plenty of Hawaiians who want their lands back. The Office of Hawaiian Affairs and the Kau Inoa bill submitted in the US Congress, testify to this feeling.

I am so glad that in the last few years the US hasn't invade any sovereign nations, and disposed of the ruling government. It is really good we don't do that any more.

Anyways...this thread is so way off topic..... What started from the posting of a xenophobic joke, to criticism of the average intelligence of an American, to gun rights, to discussions of US territories and possessions. Amazing how the threads went.

WW2 may have occured after the possesion, but look at the route the Japanese were taking to get to the US shores, that was their ultimate goal (thus the reason why they invaded the Aluetian Islands by Alaska). If we did not have a millitary presence there at the time, then the Hawaiian people would be speaking Japanese right now. I lived there for 2 years (had an apartment on the North Shore by the pipeline), had many local friends, I seen no annamosity towards the US by the locals.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
WW2 may have occured after the possesion, but look at the route the Japanese were taking to get to the US shores, that was their ultimate goal (thus the reason why they invaded the Aluetian Islands by Alaska).
I know I said I had finished here but this is just plain wrong. The US was NOT Japan's ultimate goal that was Asia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
If we did not have a millitary presence there at the time, then the Hawaiian people would be speaking Japanese right now.
In all its colonial actions one thing Japan never forced on other peoples was its language, Europeans on the other hand did and that is why English, French, German, Spanish, Portugese, Italian, Greek are still the major languages used. Even with over 1 billion people speaking one of the 2 forms of Chinese natively European languages are still used for the bulk of things on this planet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
I lived there for 2 years (had an apartment on the North Shore by the pipeline), had many local friends, I seen no annamosity towards the US by the locals.
All this shows is the kind nature of the native north Pacific Islanders. Bill Clinton himself apologised to the Hawiian peoples for America's military takeover of the Islands on behalf of the American people while he was president. This discussion has been had before on this forum and the only people who still argue against it are the same people who argue that the US does not have a problem with guns.


Posted by: blucatz

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking
I know I said I had finished here but this is just plain wrong. The US was NOT Japan's ultimate goal that was Asia..

you should have kept quite Oz, if Japan's ultimate goal was Asia, then why did they keep moving east towards the US, why the Aluetian Islands? Why Hawaii, last time I looked, Hawaii was nowhere near Asia. If there main goal was Asia, why didn't they concentrate 100% of their forces on China?
Quote:
In all its colonial actions one thing Japan never forced on other peoples was its language, Europeans on the other hand did and that is why English, French, German, Spanish, Portugese, Italian, Greek are still the major languages used. Even with over 1 billion people speaking one of the 2 forms of Chinese natively European languages are still used for the bulk of things on this planet..

It was just a figure of speech, maybe I should have kept it simple for you Oz, I should have said that the Hawaiian people would be under Japanese rule.

Quote:
All this shows is the kind nature of the native north Pacific Islanders. Bill Clinton himself apologised to the Hawiian peoples for America's military takeover of the Islands on behalf of the American people while he was president. This discussion has been had before on this forum and the only people who still argue against it are the same people who argue that the US does not have a problem with guns.

But you forget to mention that during the discussion about us being there, when asked the Hawaiians if they wanted us to leave, they said no, because their economy will go to crap.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
you should have kept quite Oz, if Japan's ultimate goal was Asia, then why did they keep moving east towards the US, why the Aluetian Islands? Why Hawaii, last time I looked, Hawaii was nowhere near Asia. If there main goal was Asia, why didn't they concentrate 100% of their forces on China?

It was just a figure of speech, maybe I should have kept it simple for you Oz, I should have said that the Hawaiian people would be under Japanese rule.


But you forget to mention that during the discussion about us being there, when asked the Hawaiians if they wanted us to leave, they said no, because their economy will go to crap.
Maybe instead of being an insulting smart ass you should think about what you are saying to people. All I ever hear from many Americans is whining about others. For some unknown reason you seem to be incapable of being part of a meaningful adult discussion without resorting to childish insults. Take what people are saying on board and instead of taking everything as an insult and then throwing back other insults you could think about it for a little while and think yeah maybe we could make our great country a better and NICER place.

So much of the rhetoric from so many Americans, not all mind you, is of a racial nature that demeans other societies and makes them out to be lower down the evolutionary scale to you.

I didn't forget to mention anything about the discussion between one group of Americans and another group of Americans about you lot being in Hawaii. I never mentioned that discussion at all actually, what I did say is your former president apologised to the Hawaiin peoples.

Maybe you should take a leaf out of the Hawaiin's book and stop showing animosity towards everyone else. Its behaviour like that that gets you in trouble.

BTW if you want to meet me in Australia you had better catch another plane or train and travel to NSW or, maybe depending on when you actually get here, Queensland where I will be on holidays.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
Ozguy,

Man you are really "out there". No country has given so much, to so many as has the US in humanitarian aid. In technology, militarily, financial aid as well as food subsidies.
You really believe this do you? If so why is your

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
reputation worldwide is in the gutter and has been for quite sometime.


Maybe its because
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
the US has forced it's will against other nations, both strong-armed and economical.
and not that you are indeed the good global citizen you made your country out to be in your opening statements of your post.

I'm out there hey, I'm not the one who just contradicted myself bigtime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
The US is self supporting and does feed itself as well. It is one of the many things that make this country great.
Then you shouldn't need to buy oil of other countries if you are self sufficient then should you? Petrochemicals are part of the malthusian dilema clark, you need petrochemicals, unless you are Amish, to increase your food production beyond what the land is able to supply naturally. You need petrochemicals to run your tractors, your cars, to spray on your food crops to stop the various diseases that occur on them.

You also purchase meat from other countries, and when you realise your own people are buying it instead of the produce from your own country you slap a HUGE levy on it. Self sufficient hey? I really doubt it.

Questions for you.
Who is the biggest seller of family cars in the US?
Is it an American company?
If you are so self sufficient why place levies on a product that by your reasoning shouldn't even be competitive cause you have the self sufficiency thing all wrapped up?
Are your white goods made in America from American materials?
Are your electrical goods made in America from American materials?
Where does the majority of the clothing bought in America get made?

I would posit the idea that America isn't so self sufficient as you would like to think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
Your Malthusian dilemma theory is completely irrelevent and does not apply to, nor support your POV.
Um no it isn't and yes it does. You just dont understand its relevance and that is something I am trying to rectify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
Aside from a worthless beach in Cuba, the US has not taken one single acre from any country at anytime except to bury our dead when fighting for anothers country.
I believe someone else has already shot this down in flames.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
Wherever there is US interest on a foreign land it is normally a capitalistic adventure and invited by the host country for economic reasons.

What countries invited you in for an economic reason?
What did your country get out of it? Bet you didn't do it out of the goodness of your American heart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
Where it is a military venture (Iraq being the current exception) it is usually the result of the same type invitation.
Hmmmmm so your incursions into Central and South American countries were by invitation were they?
The Vietnamese invited you in to drop defoliants and to make their country a war zone in did they?
What about the Koreans?
What about your incursions into Indo-China when all you were at war with was the Vm and VC? I am pretty sure Laos and Cambodia didn't ask you to enter their lands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
Malthusian dilemma is completely irrelevent when referring to USA.
Sorry but it's not. You have less than 10% of the worlds population yet you consume alot more than 10% of its resources and the majority of what you consume does not come from your own lands. You are incapable of supporting yourself in this current global economic climate and have been incapable of it for many years.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Read this and tell me how many of these military actions were conducted because you were asked to help. There aren't many of them and by far the majority are US forces going in to protect US interests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._history_events


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
Ozguy,

Man you are really "out there". No country has given so much, to so many as has the US in humanitarian aid. In technology, militarily, financial aid as well as food subsidies.
From: http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

USA’s aid, in terms of percentage of their GNP has almost always been lower than any other industrialized nation in the world, though paradoxically since 2000, their dollar amount has been the highest. (Only since 2004 have they move up from last place, by just one or two places.)

“Most of the United States’ increase in 2001 was due to a $600 million disbursement to Pakistan for economic support in the September 11 aftermath.”

The United States increased its ODA by 11.6% in real terms in 2002 … mainly due to additional and emergency funds in response to the 11 September 2001 terrorist attacks as well as new aid initiatives, especially in relation to health and humanitarian aid.”

When the large amounts of aid given to Afghanistan and Iraq is taken into account, “ODA in 2003 barely increased in real terms, suggesting that the increase in resources available to meet the MDGs has been quite modest.”

In 2006 the highest givers in order of Grose National Index in terms of % are:
Sweden 1.03
Luxembourg 0.89
Norway 0.89
Netherlands 0.8
Denmark 0.8
Ireland 0.53
UK 0.52
Belgium 0.5
Austria 0.48
France 0.47
Finland 0.39
Switzerland 0.39
Germany 0.36
Spain 0.32
Australia 0.3
Canada 0.3
New Zealand 0.27
Japan 0.25
Portugal 0.21
Italy 0.2
USA 0.17
Greece 0.16

So please dont tell me you give more than any other country cause real world figures based on population and domestic product indicate you are actually very poor givers.


Posted by: clark

Ozguy,

It's obvious you hate all things American, spewing the anti-american venom like you do. Why do you hate us so much? I won't address your responses to anything I've already stated. Everything I've stated was true. I'll just leave you with one question Oz concerning your statement on percentages and GDP. Would you rather have 10% of 1000 or 50% of 100? I ask that because comparing US aid with GDP and the countries listed is pretty much the same thing. I stated nobody or country gives as much as the USA. I didn't say according to percentages of GDP. You are Mr. Straw-man extraordinaire aren't you?


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
Ozguy,

I stated nobody or country gives as much as the USA. I didn't say according to percentages of GDP. You are Mr. Straw-man extraordinaire aren't you?


Since "nobody" is a singular and "country" is a great deal more than that I would suggest a measure of GDP could be relative to the "nobody".

If a man gives 100% of his income for example, no matter what it's size, what more can he give?


I don't think Ozguy hates the US at all but rather hates the hypocracy of the US.

I suspect if the US were more forthright about doing things for it's own self interest instead of cloaking some of it's self interest in more altruistic terms it would have more support.

RAH once wrote "Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil."

If the US were more forthright about it's worldly actions and what it does for it's own self interest (which is after all the purpose that a government is elected by it's citizens) I suspect it would actually gain more support than it has right now.

What people loathe about the US is things like saying "We don't beleive in torture" while all the time never talking about what they actually talk about what THEY define as the term "torture" to mean to neatly side step the issue. It then becomes a semantical debate rather than an ethical one.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
Ozguy,

It's obvious you hate all things American, spewing the anti-american venom like you do. Why do you hate us so much? I won't address your responses to anything I've already stated. Everything I've stated was true. I'll just leave you with one question Oz concerning your statement on percentages and GDP. Would you rather have 10% of 1000 or 50% of 100? I ask that because comparing US aid with GDP and the countries listed is pretty much the same thing. I stated nobody or country gives as much as the USA. I didn't say according to percentages of GDP. You are Mr. Straw-man extraordinaire aren't you?


Clark,
I would get you to notice that world criticism is not confined to the US. China is copping quite a bit lately over Tibet (and rightly so IMHO).

I hope the olympics are an utter PR disaster for them.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

In all its colonial actions one thing Japan never forced on other peoples was its language, Europeans on the other hand did and that is why English, French, German, Spanish, Portugese, Italian, Greek are still the major languages used. Even with over 1 billion people speaking one of the 2 forms of Chinese natively European languages are still used for the bulk of things on this planet.


ooohhhhhhhhh Oz, I really wish you hadn't gone there... They way you have written the above comes across like comparing the Japanese massacre of Nanking is not as bad as being forced to learn a foreign language? ?

Perhaps you meant to write it differently?


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucatz
Sounds like we purchased or leased this land you say we took from other nations.



The past and Present are two different things but the past should not be forgotten. I'm suprised the Phillipines had not come up in all