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British women seeking foreign husbands?
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Posted by: jessicazigzag

Hello,

My name is Jessica Honeyball and I work for Zigzag Productions, an independent television production company in London, UK which has both a well respected reputation and considerable experience in making documentary films. At the moment I am working on the development of a series for UK broadcaster Channel 4 which looks at women increasingly assuming roles more traditionally associated with men, and in this specific case looking at British women seeking foreign men for marriage.

We are hoping to produce a documentary that looks at British women turning the traditional roles of seeking foreign partners on their heads, and getting online or otherwise to find their future husbands outside of the UK. On the internet Russia and the Ukraine have almost become synonymous with marital introduction agency websites and it seems that brides from every corner of the globe are seeking western men on the internet. But what we have been interested in finding are western women seeking foreign husbands. According to various blogs and international dating sites there seem to be a growing number of UK marriage-hungry women becoming disillusioned with the western dating game and looking for happiness further away from home, however there don’t seem to be any specific sites offering western women the chance to search for and meet a foreign husband.

We are extremely keen to discover whether any existing couples are living in the UK, where British women have actively sought a foreign (Russian/Ukrainian) husband and asked him to relocate to their home in the UK or Ireland.

I wondered whether anyone was aware of any such couples who are co-habiting/married/divorced where the British woman has gone out of her way to meet him outside of the Britain? Or any independent British women and foreign men who are seeking to marry the other? I would love to talk to anyone who is able to shed any light on this.

My email address is jessica@zigzag.uk.com and contact number 0207 017 8755 and I very much look forward to hearing from anyone who is willing to help us with our research (confidentially, with of course no commitment to filming at this stage).

Thank you so much for your time!

Jess

Jessica Honeyball
Assistant Producer

Zig Zag Productions
13–14 Gt. Sutton St
Clerkenwell
London – EC1V 0BX
Tel: (0)207 017 8755
Fax: (0)207 017 8770
www.zigzagproductions.tv

Posted by: Testman

The problem UK women, and for absolute certain, American women, will run into is foreign men don't want westernized women. They are seen as too manly and not respectful of men.

Posted by: goforit

Some of the profiles I see from American women on foreign dating sites are unbelievable. Do they really think if American men aren't attracted to such stuff that a foreigner will close his eyes and say "take me?"

Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread.

Posted by: jessicazigzag

Gosh, really? I would be so keen to speak to any women, both UK and American to get their point of view on this...

Posted by: sidney

I seem to remember a few american women on RMP that were looking for russian men. I think Jill is married to a RM. She is/was a moderator and like many of us doesn't have much time to spend other then with family but you could PM her.
Sid

Posted by: jessicazigzag

Thanks Sid, I will do. I have PMed her already but guessing that she is busy at the moment... Thanks so much for your help. If you come across anyone else who might be willing to help/talk to us do let me know!

Thank you x

Posted by: sidney

We had a friend that was married to a canadian man. The local paper does a featured quarterly and wanted to do one on this foreirn marriage but it ended in divorce so it wasn't used. When they spoke to our friend she suggested they do one on my wife and they did. Hre is a link.
http://russianmeetingplace.com/foru...highlight=katya

I do wish you luck in finding someone for your article. It isn't gonna be easy.
Sid

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessicazigzag

Gosh, really? I would be so keen to speak to any women, both UK and American to get their point of view on this...

An American girl looking for a Russian man emailed me recently. I will see if she will allow me to pass her info on to you.

Posted by: Testman

I know a girl from Ukraine who gave her comment when someone said American women were trying to do the same thing as American men, by marrying a foreigner. There was someone trying to start an agency for American women, just for this purpose, and they advertised it as "Are you tired of your boring American men? Get yourself an exciting Russian man." The Ukrainian girl said, "Yeah, it will be very exciting to her when he knocks her teeth out. An American woman and a Russian man, this should be interesting. . ."

I got back from Ukraine just last month. The men there were VERY short tempered with women. So not only do I think such a relationship wouldn't work, but I would be surprised if a westernized woman could even make it out of the relationship alive!

Posted by: Manchester

Arent most of the English women seeking foreign husbands somewhat large and over 40 marrying some Turkish waiter guy they met on holiday?

On RUA we have an American woman who has married a guy from Belarus, she has just gone to live there.

If 'Ste' sees this topic, he frequents an immigration forum where all such English women are howling that they cant get Mustapha a visa to the UK. He linked me a while ago.

And on a totally different note...........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessicazigzag

Gosh, really?

Dontcha just love women who say "Gosh?"

Posted by: jessicazigzag

Hang on a minute! Am I being ribbed for saying gosh?! Actually that's fair enough... who does say that?? ha ha

Would you mind passing on this immigration forum address? I would be very interested in seeing whether anyone is willing to talk to me...

Thank you so much for all your help everyone! SO very much appreciated x

Posted by: jessicazigzag

who last posted on RMP around 2004? She was a Muslim lady looking for a Russian man but her email address isn't current, or isn't working at the moment. Can anyone suggest a way of getting in touch with her please?

(Probably a long shot but thought it worth a go!)

x

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Testman

The problem UK women, and for absolute certain, American women, will run into is foreign men don't want westernized women. They are seen as too manly and not respectful of men.

Huh?

Who told you that? Is that just YOUR opinion, or have you been designated the official spokesman for the international community of men? Really stange, though, given the large number of Americam women in happy marriages with foreign men. Keep in mind that just because you don't know about them, doesn't mean that they don't exist

Quote:

I got back from Ukraine just last month. The men there were VERY short tempered with women. So not only do I think such a relationship wouldn't work, but I would be surprised if a westernized woman could even make it out of the relationship alive!

Happily married to a Ukrainian man

We've been together five years, three countries of residence, and one child....And I am still quite alive.

Quote:

The Ukrainian girl said, "Yeah, it will be very exciting to her when he knocks her teeth out.

Sounds as if spoken by someone blissfully ignorant of the DV statistics in the US.....Given the rates of DV in the US, we are about the last people who should pull a "holier than thou" attitude about this. If anything, we should be the first to acknoweldge the importance of the individual rather than the prevailing culture.

And let's be honest-- the prevailing culture in the US right now is to some degree one of violence. School shootings? University shootings? Bus stop shootings? Work place shootings? "Going postal" is a uniquely American expression. Such things simply do NOT happen in the Ukraine and most other civilized countries. So if you want to talk about a culture of violence, we don't have to go far....

Posted by: AkMike

Interesting viewpoint Testman. Totally different than what I've seen over there, but interesting. I think you'd better start hanging out with a different crowd during your travels.

Posted by: Testman

Hello. I know men who grew up in Ukraine and they can tell you the same thing. And the domestic violence that happens in the USA is far exaggerate by the feminists. American men are actually some of the most respectful men in the world of women. Are you trying to tell me that foreign men are just the same? And there are not many happy marriages between American women and foreign men.

Did you know that American women are so looked down upon by foreign men that when American women go to China, a country with a big woman shortage, they are complaining that they cannot get dates? I know of an American woman who got a job in Moscow and stayed two years before she got fed up enough that she left. Her biggest complaint was that none of the men wanted her. Yet, in the USA, the men were nice to women and they were also willing to date her.

This is why when you see female American exchange students in Ukraine,, they always looked like they crapped their pants. They are soooo outclassed by those Ukrainian girls over there.

Foreign men simply don't want American women, in general. Yes, there may be exceptions, but they are not common.

I can't believe you posted domestic violence of women in the USA. I thought everyone here was already hip to the fact that those stats are bogus. And BTW, when I was in Ukraine, I had the great displeasure of not being able to sleep one night because the guy upstairs from me was beating the **** out of his wife. I waited for the police. They never came. . . Do you REALLY think relationships with Ukrainian men and American women will fly? American women, the way they act. . . Compared to how nice Ukrainian girls are and yet the men act this way. On the street, I saw men yelling at women over Taxi fairs even though the women were so nice.

Don't be too offended that I told the truth or that I know Ukrainians who have lived all over the world. But your arguments, JIll, won't change the fact that American women, generally hate men. And it also won't change the fact that when such women start dating men who are used to very nice women who are VERY submissive, that there will be problems like nothing they have ever experienced.

Posted by: Testman

Quote:

Originally Posted by goforit

Some of the profiles I see from American women on foreign dating sites are unbelievable. Do they really think if American men aren't attracted to such stuff that a foreigner will close his eyes and say "take me?"

It's nice to hear reason from someone else besides just me. Thank you.

I know several men who married Ukrainian women and have lived in Ukraine. And what Jill is claiming is an absolute joke! Domestic violence is FAR more common in Ukraine than the states. And as my friend from Ukraine said once, sometimes the woman's family will actually blame the woman for getting a black eye by her husband! And police don't care much either and will, send her home back to her husband. Unless these men are willing to give all that up just for a green card, thats the only time I can see where the relationship will work. Because I couldn't imagine, as a man, leaving such nice women, only so I can date the likes of American women. And just westernized women in general, are the same. Thats why 100,000 Aussia men married foreign women, creating a shortage of men in Australia that has NEVER existed in all of its history. If westernized women are so great, why bother with the plain ticket and the expense. . . Run a search of any such dating agencies that offer foreign husbands to American women. You will likely find none. Yet so many agencies that have no trouble finding foreign women for Western men. I have seen this questioned asked on forums and the American women who posted said that the foreign men they met were not nice enough to women for them to ever consider having one. But we know that women will follow any trend, so if you can ever get some agencies going and tell women they will be getting one over on their men by going foreign, then you will start seeing women sign up for it. What you won't start seeing is foreign men signing up for a better wife, maybe a better LIFE and green card is the ONLY reason any sane man would have for it. Western women are the worst on Earth and this is well known.

Posted by: blucatz

I agree 1000% on the stats about domestic violence here in the US. The laws in this country make it way too easy for a woman to make a bogus claim against the man just because she is mad at him, does not even have to show proof, just make the phone call and the man will be arrested. I cannot even imagine a what in general would make foreign men want to even sign up on a website looking for a westernized women. Unless they totally believe the American movies and think all the women over here are like the ones in the movies and on TV.

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

And the domestic violence that happens in the USA is far exaggerate by the feminists.

Wow...As someone who has known women whose lives were destroyed by abusive relationships which they felt to powerless to leave until they almost lost their lives, this is incredibly insulting. It is the same attitude of those who claim that rape victims were "really asking for it." Wow. Just wow.

Quote:

This is why when you see female American exchange students in Ukraine,, they always looked like they crapped their pants. They are soooo outclassed by those Ukrainian girls over there.

Well, I myself lived in Ukraine for several years and never had a problem getting dates

And actually the other American women I knew there were also all either dating Ukrainian men or were already married to one

Quote:

maybe a better LIFE and green card is the ONLY reason any sane man would have for it.

Ah, okay, that must explain it then

Quote:

Western women are the worst on Earth and this is well known.

Again, that is YOUR opinion and you are entitled to it. Fortunately, however, most men (at least most men that I know) would disagree with it. But, hey, you clearly have an agenda to promote here, so good luck with that

Quote:

won't change the fact that American women, generally hate men.

A number of my friends are American women and, strangely, not a single one of them "hates men." Although, they probably wouldn't be too fond of a man who considers DV to be nothing more than some vast feminist consipracy.

Quote:

Do you REALLY think relationships with Ukrainian men and American women will fly?

I have a very happy marriage to a Ukrainian man and several of my friends (also American women married to Russian/Ukrainian men) do as well. So, uh, yeah, I do think so

Posted by: AkMike

O/T

Welcome Back Jill!
Your insight has been missed!

Really!!

Posted by: Jill

How about this

Posted by: AkMike

Does it also say Ladies??

Posted by: Jill

How about this:

Posted by: AkMike

You're a sweetheart! :

Does it come in other colors? Where can I get 2-3 dozen????

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkMike

You're a sweetheart! :

Does it come in other colors? Where can I get 2-3 dozen????

http://www.flagpridet-shirts.com/in...dex&cPath=7_149

Posted by: Jill

There are some fun ones here as well:

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/ukraine

Posted by: AkMike

I need tio get at least 1 by March 8!

I know someone who'd be happy!

Posted by: AkMike

I know someone that's going to be surprised!

Thanks!

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

The domestic violence statistics in the US are a crock of baloney. So are the rape statistics. They in no way reflect reality and are one of the absolute lies of modern feminism. These stats have been debunked again and again and yet are continually brought out because they serve a political purpose.

Even some corners of feminism are embarrased by such blatantly poor scholarship and agenda driven numbers.

See Hoff-Sommers, Who Stole Feminism: How Woman have betrayed Women as one example or Wendy McElroy's, LIBERTY FOR WOMEN: Freedom and Feminism in the Twenty-First Century

Quote:

And let's be honest-- the prevailing culture in the US right now is to some degree one of violence. School shootings? University shootings? Bus stop shootings? Work place shootings? "Going postal" is a uniquely American expression. Such things simply do NOT happen in the Ukraine and most other civilized countries. So if you want to talk about a culture of violence, we don't have to go far....

In the year 2000, the homicide rate in Russia was 20 per 100,000 people. In the US it was 5.5 per 100,000 people and has changed little since then.

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

Really stange, though, given the large number of Americam women in happy marriages with foreign men.

Jill,

I'm curious. Do you have any hard numbers on American women married to foreign men? I have seen stats for men but never for women.

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Testman

Did you know that American women are so looked down upon by foreign men that when American women go to China, a country with a big woman shortage, they are complaining that they cannot get dates? I know of an American woman who got a job in Moscow and stayed two years before she got fed up enough that she left. Her biggest complaint was that none of the men wanted her. Yet, in the USA, the men were nice to women and they were also willing to date her.

It is a theme that has been finding some play in the media as of late, the difficulties of successful American woman abroad finding dates and long term mates. I don't remember the paper (maybe the Wall Street Journal) that recently carried a front page article about this very problem.

Of course this doesn't apply to all women and I have no idea how the numbers play out, but it appears to be a notable trend that the press has picked up on.

Quote:

Foreign men simply don't want American women, in general. Yes, there may be exceptions, but they are not common.

As a general rule it is probably safe to say that many foreign men certainly aren't all that interested in feminist ideology, and don't want women who have drunk deeply from that well.

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by blucatz

I agree 1000% on the stats about domestic violence here in the US. The laws in this country make it way too easy for a woman to make a bogus claim against the man just because she is mad at him, does not even have to show proof, just make the phone call and the man will be arrested.

Yes that is very unfortunate but it happens all the time. The DV issue in the US is way out of control. In my state if a police officer comes out someone HAS to go jail, even if the matter is resolved before they get there or it was just an argument.

I know of one case where a woman hit the man, the man did not retaliate, a neighbor called the police, and since someone had to go the man went because no way was he going to allow his wife to sit in a jail cell.

An attorney friend of mine once told me about all the sad and bogus domestic violence cases they see because of the way the laws are currently set up.

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

No, its not the same attitude. My mom was a rape counselor and I used to make the rounds with her on occasion. I also personally know of women who have been raped and victims of abuse at the hands of men. But just because there are real victims out there doesn't give one carte blanche to jack up or hype the actual numbers. To do so only cheapens the real victims of DV and rape and casts a pall over men in general making our society seem much more aggressive and violent than reality dictates.

And if the REAL numbers of rape victims are taken into account, men as rape victims out number women by a very large percentage because of all the rape that occurs in our stupidly bloated prison system where now 1 out of every 100 adults is behind bars, the majority because of non-violent crimes.

Quote:

Well, I myself lived in Ukraine for several years and never had a problem getting dates

And actually the other American women I knew there were also all either dating Ukrainian men or were already married to one

Yes and I'm sure that is true of a number of women, including my sister who is happily married to a foreign man. IMO, I think this discussion is best carried forward in terms of trends and general attitudes, not in terms of any particular individual or individuals. We will always be able to find people who don't fit the trend.

Quote:

A number of my friends are American women and, strangely, not a single one of them "hates men."

I have met a few, usually in academia, but they are around. And it certainly doesn't take much perusing among the influential feminist writers of our day to discover such attitudes.

Of course the levels of expression will vary, and often until a particular attitude or behaviour is pointed out, its not obvious that it represents a "hate men" attitude. My ex-fiancee fit into that category when I first met her. Sometimes I used to say to myself, "if that is how you really feel, why do you even bother to date?" Many months later she admitted that was a problem for her, and outside of her Ivory League education she really didn't know why she had developed such an attitude.

Quote:

Although, they probably wouldn't be too fond of a man who considers DV to be nothing more than some vast feminist consipracy.

Domestic violence is not a feminist conspiracy, but the numbers often bandied about are dishonest and false, and promulgation of those numbers can be attributed directly to modern feminism.

Quote:

I have a very happy marriage to a Ukrainian man and several of my friends (also American women married to Russian/Ukrainian men) do as well. So, uh, yeah, I do think so

Your personal situation, while a good thing, doesn't really address the issue. While I don't think it is accurate to say ALL foreign men, I think it is equally inaccurate to point to your personal situation and then conclude there must not be a problem.

Posted by: Pin Boy

testman seems to believe all these ukrainian women are such "nice girls" and that they are just victims of these horrible men. i have known three ukrainian women fairly well and two of them were absolute hell on wheels - manipulative, deceitful, conniving, and any other adjective reflecting poor character that you can think of. and the third one was just plain dishonest. they are not just damsels in distress waiting to be rescued.

your other feelings on statistics and attitudes of men hating western women aside, i hope you're not buying into that cinderella myth, or you can be taken for a painful ride by some of these "nice girls."

pin boy

Posted by: blucatz

There are exceptions to every rule and statistic, Jill, you and your relationship with your foreign man is the exception. But, overall, foreign men will not want anything to do with westernized women and thier feminist ways. Thats just the fact of life, just the way the western men on this site don't want anything to do with them, including me. I was also a victim of a bogus DV charge trumped up by an ex wife because she was mad, the charge was made 3 days after I supposedly made the threat, I was out of town at the time, had not talked to her in 2 weeks, but, did not matter, all she had to do was file a police report, a warrant was put out for me and I spent 2 days in jail. Charges were dropped because it was a false charge. I tried to charge her for false prosecution, couldn't do it, lawyer said nothing would be done to her because of the laws we have in place in this country.

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pin Boy

testman seems to believe all these ukrainian women are such "nice girls" and that they are just victims of these horrible men. i have known three ukrainian women fairly well and two of them were absolute hell on wheels - manipulative, deceitful, conniving, and any other adjective reflecting poor character that you can think of. and the third one was just plain dishonest. they are not just damsels in distress waiting to be rescued.

your other feelings on statistics and attitudes of men hating western women aside, i hope you're not buying into that cinderella myth, or you can be taken for a painful ride by some of these "nice girls."

pin boy

If you are addressing that post to me, I haven't made any comment about Testman's beliefs about Ukranian men or women. I have specifically avoided doing so because I don't know about the dark side of Ukranian men he is presenting, and I'm certainly aware that bad women exist in any country, although we can point out general diffferences in culture.

Nor am I buying into any myths about women of any sort, FSU or otherwise. I have been pretty clear and made some very precise distinctions in my post. Nor am I setting forth my "feelings" about statistics and attitudes of men "hating western women." Feelings don't cut it. In the debate about gender and cultural differences, especially as it regards DV and rape, we need facts not feelings or hype.

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by blucatz

There are exceptions to every rule and statistic, Jill, you and your relationship with your foreign man is the exception. But, overall, foreign men will not want anything to do with westernized women and thier feminist ways. Thats just the fact of life, just the way the western men on this site don't want anything to do with them, including me. I was also a victim of a bogus DV charge trumped up by an ex wife because she was mad, the charge was made 3 days after I supposedly made the threat, I was out of town at the time, had not talked to her in 2 weeks, but, did not matter, all she had to do was file a police report, a warrant was put out for me and I spent 2 days in jail. Charges were dropped because it was a false charge. I tried to charge her for false prosecution, couldn't do it, lawyer said nothing would be done to her because of the laws we have in place in this country.

Consider yourself lucky. It often takes up to 30 days before a man can get before a judge on a DV charge in the state of Washington.

Posted by: blucatz

Quote:

Originally Posted by goforit

Consider yourself lucky. It often takes up to 30 days before a man can get before a judge on a DV charge in the state of Washington.

30 Days? OMG! I went crazy in 2 days....

Posted by: Pin Boy

go for it, it says "TESTMAN believes". i can't understand how you think i was referring to you??

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pin Boy

go for it, it says "TESTMAN believes". i can't understand how you think i was referring to you??

Pin Boy it reads to me like you are summarizing what Testman believes and warning me not to fall into the myth of all Ukranian women being wonderful, since I don't recall Testman mentioning anything about statistics, and it comes right after my post mentioning statistics and hating men.

Sorry about that for getting it wrong. At any rate I didn't take it as a negative, but only as a chance to clarify what I was saying.

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by blucatz

30 Days? OMG! I went crazy in 2 days....

Yup this stuff is flat out of control.

Posted by: Pin Boy

no problem go for it.

pb

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessicazigzag

According to various blogs and international dating sites there seem to be a growing number of UK marriage-hungry women becoming disillusioned with the western dating game and looking for happiness further away from home,

Jessica--- this must be the strangest, most bizarre circumstance I've seen the in the last 3 years. But its not much of a surprise. Cast this into the 'if the guys can do it, the girls can do it' category.

But the russian men many western women will meet will NOT comport to the prevailing standards most western women will expect (including the UK).

Good luck! The results from such an examination should be surprising at the least, perhaps * astonishing * !

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

Wow...As someone who has known women whose lives were destroyed by abusive relationships which they felt to powerless to leave until they almost lost their lives, this is incredibly insulting.

Hi Jill!

Personal anecdotes are fine, but some of the stereotypes surrounding domestic violence and marriage are shattering.

There is a study floating around from 2003 that examines domestic violence by gender since the adoption of "no-fault" divorce statutes by many states in the 1970's (Illinois codified its version in 1976, or in 1981- I believe).

One study determined since no-fault adoption, domestic violence by men either stayed steady, or declined slightly. Domestic violence by women INCREASED by 20 percent in some states, perhaps even more. This disputes the common media generated perceptions of DV.

You might find some clues to locating the research by visiting the St. Louis Federal Reserve bank website and reviewing articles in the REGIONAL ECONOMIST in the winter/spring 2008.

Posted by: AkMike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

How about this:

O/T

Jill the T shirt came in just in time for Womens day! Now I get to 'crash' a party that Tanya has set up with some of her girlfriends wearing it and I'm going to give them some roses!

This is going to go over great!

Thanks once again!

Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Testman

What you won't start seeing is foreign men signing up for a better wife, maybe a better LIFE and green card is the ONLY reason any sane man would have for it.

That means I am really insane - because I am engaged to a wonderful American lady!

Posted by: blucatz

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincetonLion

That means I am really insane - because I am engaged to a wonderful American lady!

Yeah, you really look insane with your glass of wine there in your picture, plus, you live in New Jersey so how sane can you be...LOL I'm just messing with you, congrats on the engagement, when's the wedding?

Posted by: sidney

I'm happy for you Princeton. I know you've been looking for some time like many of us have/had.
We wish you the best.
Sid

Posted by: myshka

Congratulations Lev! When will the wedding happen?

Posted by: AkMike

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincetonLion

That means I am really insane - because I am engaged to a wonderful American lady!

I was wondering where you've been hiding and what you've been up to!
Now we know you went to the dark side...

Seriously.. Congratulations on your engagement!

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincetonLion

That means I am really insane - because I am engaged to a wonderful American lady!

Woo hoo! Congratulations!!!!!

Posted by: lindochka

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincetonLion

That means I am really insane - because I am engaged to a wonderful American lady!

<--- Waving to Jill and Myshka

PrincetonLion, are you sure you aren't marrying her just to get a green card?

(j/k -- congrats and best wishes for the future to both of you!)

Oh, and Testman? I'm a thoroughly modern AW -- born, raised, and educated in the USA. I currently live in a small country town in Belarus, about a half hour's drive from the village where my maternal grandfather was born. It's a huge change from the big city where I spent my whole life.

I'm getting married in four weeks to the Belarusian man I've been seeing for nearly four years. He's no saint, but he's hardly the wife-beating drunken Neanderthal that AM such as yourself like to think all guys from the FSU are.

(Did it never occur to any of you guys that FSUW who badmouth all FSUM have their own agenda, much as WM who badmouth all WW do? Don't you ever stop to think that most of your mothers are WW? You're lumping your own mothers in with the rest of us shrews and harridans -- sheesh, is nothing sacred?)

Nope, my DM's just a nice, decent, working guy with a fair number of very fine qualities. Oh, and he's not looking for a green card. We have no plans to live in the US. Matter of fact, once we've registered our marriage, he will be sponsoring me for permanent residency in Belarus.

Women like Jill, Myshka, and I are not as unusual as WM would like to think. Just because you don't know about us doesn't mean we don't exist. A few of us post on boards such as these but most of us are kind of busy with Real Life.

There is no FSU Husband Industry that I'm aware of. I certainly didn't find my DM on a romance tour or through an agency, and I know that Jill and Myshka didn't find theirs that way either. Don't let that stop you from making sweeping generalizations, though!

I'd love to stay and chat with you all further, but now that I've checked my email, read the few boards I bother with, and handled some business online, I'm going to start a pot of soup and give some thought to what we're going to want for dinner tonight. It might be almost April, but we've got four or five inches of snow on the ground here, and even a college-educated white-collar career woman such as I knows that some nice homemade soup does a lot to take the chill off a guy when he comes home from work. (I learned that from my mom, another awful AW with a college degree and a white-collar job.)

You all have a nice day, and for those still looking, good luck in your search!

Posted by: Chrismc

Lindochka

I guess I will win that race afterall, 4 weeks still hey

well for me legally it is this Friday, ceremonial wise Saturday

Good luck Lindochka, and well said above.

Chris

Posted by: Testman

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindochka

(Did it never occur to any of you guys that FSUW who badmouth all FSUM have their own agenda, much as WM who badmouth all WW do? Don't you ever stop to think that most of your mothers are WW? You're lumping your own mothers in with the rest of us shrews and harridans -- sheesh, is nothing sacred?)

Oh, and Testman? I'm a thoroughly modern AW -- born, raised, and educated in the USA.

Don't worry, I can believe that.

And BTW, I am not going on what any FSU woman told me. I am going on what a Ukrainian man who immigrated to the USA told me about life there. And also what a number of American men who have lived there observed while they were there.

Quote:

and even a college-educated white-collar career woman such as I knows that some nice homemade soup does a lot to take the chill off a guy when he comes home from work. (I learned that from my mom, another awful AW with a college degree and a white-collar job.)

And the reason for the sarcasm is?

I'll let you in on some thoughts that AM have about women, and that is, we don't care if you have a white-collar job, that is not why AM are going foreign. The reason we go foreign ON A FAR LARGER SCALE THAN YOU WOMEN WILL EVER BE ABLE TO, is attitudes just like you displayed here. I say this because it seems women start proclaiming their independence when they feel threatened.

BTW, (LMAO) This statement,"and even a college-educated white-collar career woman such as I". Do you have an inferiority complex? Why else spout off your accomplishments for? What if I said," And even a well built man who has entered four bodybuilding shows and won all four of them, knows what women want". . . I can just imagine what women here would say. And I wouldn't blame them either because it has nothing to do with the discussion! So I ask, why do you proclaim this repeatedly? I mean, you brought educated women up three times. Whats that all about?

Quote:

There is no FSU Husband Industry that I'm aware of. I certainly didn't find my DM on a romance tour or through an agency, and I know that Jill and Myshka didn't find theirs that way either. Don't let that stop you from making sweeping generalizations, though!

Pointing out that there are far less AW who marry foreign, than compared to how many AM go foreign, is generalizing? I call it simple math. And also law of supply and demand. There is not much demand for an AW. I know this hurts many AW egos, but even so, this is not called "generalizing". No one likes being rejected. I understand why this bothers so many American women. But they truly do have themselves to blame for it. Yet, if we simply point this out, then we are "generalizing". And I'll say that when women start this shaming language, it is called "killing the messenger".

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Pointing out that there are far less AW who marry foreign, than compared to how many AM go foreign, is generalizing? I call it simple math.

Could you link to the official stats on that? I've actually never seen the exact figures, only sketchy references to them. Do you have a link to the stats by sex for K-1, K-3, and C? I just tried the USCIS site and couldn't find them, although I suspect they must be there somewhere.

Posted by: blucatz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

Are you wanting stats on how many came here on a "K" type visa? What about all the foreign women already here that the AM end up with instead of AW? Do we include those in the stats? I would say yes, a foreign woman is still not an AW no matter if she immigrated here on a "K" type vise or arrived here by other means. I hate to agree with Testman on this one, lindochka basically proved his point on the attitudes of the typical AW here in this country, spouting off her accomplishments and her higher than thou attitude. She may actually be different, but what she said in that post and how she said it just proved his point.

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Originally Posted by blucatz

I'm just looking for some hard numbers as I often hear it asserted on this site that the number of AM marrying foreign women far exceeds the number of AW who marry foreign men. Based on the people I know in real life, it is just the opposite--I know far more AW married to foreign men (and you do make a good point here--in many cases the men did not come over on K type visas, but came for other reasons and then ended up marrying an AW).

So I was curious about what the real stats say and I have never come across any. Any links to official sites giving the numbers would be appreciated. Perhaps the US census would have numbers on this type of thing?

Posted by: AkMike

I've never found any stats Jill. But from what I've seen here locally it's more women coming in than men..

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Pointing out that there are far less AW who marry foreign, than compared to how many AM go foreign, is generalizing? I call it simple math.

I mean this kind of assertion. I would just like to see the real numbers behind this statement. Curiousity, 'tis all. It is presented as fact, so there must be some kind of official stats to support it. I would assume anyway.

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

I mean, you brought educated women up three times. Whats that all about?

If I were to hazard a guess, I would venture that she emphasized this point because it is so often said around here that one of the wonderful things about RW is how they are both highly educated and yet remain "traiditonal women." Lindochka can, of course, correct me if I am wrong.

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkMike

But from what I've seen here locally it's more women coming in than men..

LOL, but isn't the male to female ratio in Alaska something like 10:1? It couldn't really be any other way there then

And as I said, from what I see locally it is a very different picture. Which is why I'm curious as to the REAL numbers. You in Alaska and me in California--well, what we're seeing may not be typical of America in general

You know, it's just something that comes up here A LOT. But I have yet to see any actual data supporting it.

Posted by: AkMike

That's probably true. But the M/F ratio has gotten alot closer in recent years. It used to be spread out some but now I'd guess 50-50.
The old female saying was "The odds are good but the goods are odd". isn't used much..

Posted by: Testman

I read somewhere that 22% of the foreign women who marry American men are marrying men in California. It could be because California has 150,000 more men than women. So there is a woman shortage there. I know a Ukrainian girl who grew up in Ohio and was saying how when she was in Ohio, any man she wanted go date, he was already taken. That there was fierce competition for men there. Then she goes to college in California. And when she gets there, she says any man she wanted to date, the guy never had a girlfriend or even knew any women. She said she saw 28 year old Italian men who looked like underwear models, and were single, and in fact, had never even gotten their first girlfriend.

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Testman

I read somewhere that 22% of the foreign women who marry American men are marrying men in California. It could be because California has 150,000 more men than women.

150,000 really isn't that much given the population of the state (also, I wonder what the age breakdown for that is). It would be interesting to see stats for the percentage of foreign men who marry American women resident in California. Perhaps Californians in general are just more likely to have foreign born partners--e.g. due to the large immigrant populations in many areas of the state.

Again, just looking at people I personally know, this seems true. In my daughter's pre-school class, for example, there is only ONE family where both the mother and father are US born.

Quote:

That's probably true. But the M/F ratio has gotten alot closer in recent years.

LOL, well you said it yourself--the men are importing women and closing the gender gap

Posted by: Testman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

Jill, when you break it down to the number of single men and single women, the difference in gender ratio is astonishing. I'll give this example: Lets say there is a population that is 45% women and 55% men. Sounds about close right? But if you were to grab 100 people off the street and put them in a large auditorium, you would have 45 women and 55 men. Now lets say 35 of those 45 women started dating the men there. You would then have 10 single women and 20 single men. There would be two single men for every one single woman. And because those single women are so fought over, they may actually just prefer to stay single! So in this scenario, ALL the women are happy and 1 out of 3 men will never get a wife.

I know a guy who moved to The States from Ukraine and I think it was California he went to. He said when he was in Ukraine, he, and I will use his exact words, "Couldn't beat the women off of him with a ****ty stick" But when he moved to California, it took him two years to get a date. So it seems that demographics are playing a huge role in dating. And BTW, if you were to do an age breakdown, it would be even worse for the men there, as women outlive men. So if you were to isolate the ratio of young men and women, the gender ratio would be even further in the women's favor. When you add all this info up at the end of the day, the story about 22% of foreign women going to California, seems accurate.

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Jill, when you break it down to the number of single men and single women, the difference in gender ratio is astonishing. I'll give this example: Lets say there is a population that is 45% women and 55% men.

But that's not what it means. A difference of 150,000 more men than women in the entire state of California (if that is correct) would not mean that the ratio is 45:55. According to Wiki, the total population of CA is 37,700,000. Dunno, still doesn't seem all that significant to me. But again, you would need more specific info about age and marital status to see if it could be meaningful in anyway.

Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindochka

PrincetonLion, are you sure you aren't marrying her just to get a green card?

Xo-xo, I have got my Green Card almost 5 years ago! Now it is already the time to apply for a citizenship!

Posted by: Testman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

I never said that was what it meant. I was pointing out how powerful demographics are by giving an example. And yes, 150,000 difference for just one state IS a very big difference and is why so many Californian men have such a hard time with women there. In Australia, there seems to be a big uproar about the new man shortage there, as 100,000 Australian men have married foreign women. Now days, there are 30,000 more women than men, in the whole country, yet the women are saying they can tell the difference. Even just 30,000 out of 20 million total population, and they are feeling the difference, as before there used to be 70,000 more men than women.

Posted by: Testman

http://russianwomen.wordpress.com/2...-of-california/

Looking at this graph, 22% of foreign women marrying men in California now makes sense! Whats interesting though, is that it seems to suggest that these men were never too picky in the first place, just its hard to date someone who was never born.

Posted by: blucatz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Testman

http://russianwomen.wordpress.com/2...-of-california/

Looking at this graph, 22% of foreign women marrying men in California now makes sense! Whats interesting though, is that it seems to suggest that these men were never too picky in the first place, just its hard to date someone who was never born.

Interesting map you posted Testman. I wonder how the went about getting the figures for it.

Posted by: goforit

[QUOTE=lindochka](Did it never occur to any of you guys that FSUW who badmouth all FSUM have their own agenda, much as WM who badmouth all WW do? Don't you ever stop to think that most of your mothers are WW? You're lumping your own mothers in with the rest of us shrews and harridans -- sheesh, is nothing sacred?)[QUOTE]

LOL! There is such a thing as generational differences.

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

I think if you googled IMBRA that would probably give you what you are looking for. Or just write my state senator Maria Cantwell and ask her where she got her numbers from.

Posted by: Testman

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...25205922AAvwNR7

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...25210032AAWbcWw

Quote:

Well, since you asked for an answer minus the political correctness, Ill take a shot. Ask any foreign girl what nations men make the best husbands and she will invariably rate American men among the top 5. Conversely, ask a foreign man what nation has the worst females in the world, and he will most likely answer "American!" with hardly a thought. The reasons range from the cultural, such as the female prison population in America expanding by 757% from 1977 to 2004 (yes, 757%, thats not a typo). See http://www.jointogether.org/news/headlin... for more info on that statistic. Then on up to the personal, namely obesity. Americans are fat...females included...maybe more so! http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/07/worlds-... Or over to interpersonal. Lets face it, American females lack severely in the people skills department. Cut to the quick on that subject by looking at http://www.singleabroad.com/ for a few minutes. Now, keep in mind my experience isn't overly vast. Ive traveled America East to West, South America (Ecuador) Asia (Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Iraq), and of course Europe (Czech Republic, Austria, and Ukraine where I met my wife and lived for a few years). Now I am nearly 40, and my wife is still in her mid 20's. She is a blond haired, blue eyed lovely speaking 3 languages with a masters degree in Education. She cooks cleans and works and looks great doing it. How is all this possible, you may ask? Simple! Shes not American! Now of course American females, when exposed to such raw truth, will immediately explode into maximum demon-possessed, flag-waving man-hater, shriek-mode...but that is to be expected (and amusing). Facts and feminism are incompatible. This is painted in stark black and white when one asks a simple question that no American females can or will answer. Why are there so many web pages devoted to American men seeking foreign ladies...and so very, very few web pages for foreign men seeking American females? Hope this answer helps!

Posted by: chatnoir

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincetonLion

That means I am really insane - because I am engaged to a wonderful American lady!

Woohoo, when is the big day? Congratulations and best wishes to you and your fiancée. I'm so happy for you both!

OT: Lev, thank you so much for rec-ing sth to my husband and myself an eon ago - the Privet site. He has found the forums invaluable since being in the US! Thank you again!