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4 VERY NICE WOMEN TO CHOOSE FROM, NOW WHAT DO I DO?

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Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe123
RP

Although it looks like you have given up on that woman you recently left behind in Ukraine, I really would like to share with you some of my thoughts. I think you may have underestimated her. For her maybe the only step beyond friendship was marriage. But in the circumstances you did not cunningly plead with her and beg her enough about the idea of marriage. I don't think you asked her to marry you at all. At least not in the right way. And maybe talk of the joy of giving life especially in the form of a baby. For some people in the world even a kiss before marriage is unnecessary. So some time later down the track if things don't work out with anybody else, and you think about her, maybe you can just pop the question.

Moe


Moe, Are you smoking anything weird that's affecting your judgment?

Ask her to marry me when she tells me she likes me as a friend & makes me come there for nothing except hoping she will get a few things, gifts & dinners at a nice place & she even has the nerve to ask me to come back in the summer knowing she has no intention of us being in a commited relationship.

The women tells me she thinks I would be uncomfortable with her in bed if I saw her naked.

Moe, you aren't the Moe that hangs with Larry & curly are you? lol You can't possibly be one of the 3 Stooges.

And Moe I will not PLEAD & BEG anyone to marry me.

You bought some strong stuff there buddy to put in that pipe to think like that?


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
I hear you about the gifts. I didn't go as crazy as you might think. I got her a mini Ipod for $40.00 and some eye cream for her eyes. And 2 t shirts that had my city written all over it.

As far as the stuff I got her when I was with her that was also very little because I dumped her 2 days after I got there but I still did hang out with her .
We went to see the Fortress in Belegrod and there was one time where she forgot her sunglasses at home and I got her a cheap pair from a vendor on the street. On my 2nd day with her she did drag me into a health food shop and asked if I could get her some vitamins and I did.


Quote:
Anyway she is 100% GTG in my mind but with the qualities of acting like your girlfriend without any kissing or physical intimacy. She does all of the rest perfectly
.

I really don't get it. What kind of good time did she have with you? No sex, no gifts, no good time actually and you call her GTG. Why?

Quote:
I got her mom a T shirt with my city name on it also.


I am about to burst into tears

Quote:
WHY WOULD SHE EVEN LET ME COME BACK A 2ND TIME IF SHE KNEW ON THE 1ST TRIP IT WOULD NEVER GO ANYWHERE.


WHY WOULD YOU GO A SECOND TIME IN SPITE OF ALL RED FLAGS IF YOU KNEW ON THE 1ST TRIP IT WOULD NEVER GO ANYWHERE. You have a free will to act as you please and be ready to meet the consequences of your choice. Right?

Quote:
And then the nice guy in me is thinking, poor little girl makes $50.00 a week and sleeps in the same bed with her mom in a one room apt. & they have nothing.


I would advise you to think it all over. She is not the first poor little girl who has nothing but dumps you. Do they really see that nice guy IN YOU? Have you tried to show them that nice guy?

Quote:
I don’t know what the next meeting will be like with Ms Sumy but I am feeling good about it & I will go & hope for the best. That’s all I have right now & I hope it’s a good thing.


We all hope, honestly.


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
.

I really don't get it. What kind of good time did she have with you? No sex, no gifts, no good time actually and you call her GTG. Why?



I am about to burst into tears



WHY WOULD YOU GO A SECOND TIME IN SPITE OF ALL RED FLAGS IF YOU KNEW ON THE 1ST TRIP IT WOULD NEVER GO ANYWHERE. You have a free will to act as you please and be ready to meet the consequences of your choice. Right?



I would advise you to think it all over. She is not the first poor little girl who has nothing but dumps you. Do they really see that nice guy IN YOU? Have you tried to show them that nice guy?



We all hope, honestly.


Seaview, Where did you ever read that I gave her no gifts? It's looks to me like you also have a bad memory. I have noticed this quality in Fsu women. They only remember what they want & not how it actually is.

Also Seaview I brought with me for her A $45.00 Ipod, beach pants $25.00, 2 T shirts $40.00 , Clinique eye cream $42.00 & for her mom 1 Tshirt $22.00, beach pants $25.00




Also Seaview how do you explain that I told her I was done with her 2 days after I got there because she only said we were great friends and I tell her to go home & she refuses to go home & begs me to let her be with me for the day.

Day #2 I payed $90.00 for her to go to a herbal doctor to treat what she said were severe headaches she has been having due to her job.

Also , this women loves to take you into shops & try on clothes & ask you what you think. When a women tries on something that costs 2 times her salary at work when she is with a man from abroad, it kind of tells you something.

Day 1-5 , dining in nice restaurants except 3 times in McDonalds.

Seaview again your memory is out of whack. I said SHE KNEW it would not go anywhere after the 1st trip NOT I KNEW IT WOULD GO NOWHERE. She he just wanted to be friends.

I made the choice to go back obviously because she asked me to come back. But her excuse was I should have known we were only friends if she was not intimate at all with me.

And her bad memory forgot that when I tried to get intimate with her on trip #1 she said she is not ready because she is still getting over not getting married to the other guy and she said I just need little time.

Seaview, she told me she never loved that guy she was going to marry. So do FSU women really need time to get over such things when they don't even love someone.

Also Seaview it should be obvious to such a smart women as yourself that I would never go to see her a 2nd time if I knew that all she intended to be was my friend. I all ready have women friends where I live. I don't need any more. And I'm not so lonely that I need to be seen in Odessa with a women holding my arm as we walk down the street.

And I did take your advise. I told her I was done with her after being with her for 2 days because she finally said what I needed to hear. And her exact words to me were "YOU ARE A GREAT MAN WITH A HEART OF GOLD & SO KIND TO ME & MY MOTHER".

Seaview , I must admit that you come up with good questions, but it is only I that really knows the facts of my time spent with her.

When a women tells you you are the greatest & kindest and she knows that I have traveled 8000 miles to be with her for the 2nd time she obviously knows it's not to just be just her friend like any other man in her city & part time hand holder.

But when a women tells you to come see her a 2nd time and she knows from your 1st meeting that she will never be more than your friend it is obvious that she has other motives on her mind.

Seaview you are right , I'm about to burst into tears. lol


Face it, she had me come for the possibility of just receiving things & hoping I would open my wallet a few times. And it was her that knew after my 1st trip that we would never progress into a commitment leading to marriage.


And this women even had the nerve to try & get another $20.00 for a taxi home after telling me she loves me as a friend and not as a women feels for a man leading to marriage.

To sum it up for you Seaview. I think she is a scammer with the only difference being , she would never ask for money. She would just try to convince you to spend & buy her things.

I hope you are somewhat clear on what I have told you here. If you would like to know anything else about the women who you think is a saint, just let me know and I will tell you.


Posted by: GoeastLJ

RP, we are all sorry for you but I hope you will find the one for you soon. All these encounters make you a better person and your knowledge of the way the mind of opposite gender works is greatly enhanced. I am sure you have handled the situations very smartly, but I suspect we all need to change the way we look at things depending on the circumstances. Do you think there is something that needs to be done differently when one wants to go into a relationship with people from a different culture, especially women?

I totally agree with your analysis of the lady (both ladies, for that matter) in Odessa, but I think there were times when the majority of the people on this forum thought it was time for you to cut your losses. In most cultures, people will NEVER spell things out for you. Women, especially, rely on the man to make use of the signals they are sending out to come to a conclusion.

I was just thinking, for what it is worth, that if the lady wanted to get more presents and meals out of you, she could have kissed you but told you it was too early for anything else. The kiss could have meant a lot to you but not to her. You would have been very happy and probably spent a little bit more money on her. She could then have written after you left to tell you that she did not think there was any chemistry between the two of you and would not continue with the relationship.

This would have hurt you even more. I have met girls who claim to have been put on a scammer list because they have been polite and accepted a man’s offers of presents, dining and wining. You know the woman has no money beforehand, and so you can chose to spend the whole visit indoors, or spend a little and see the country. If and when I spend on a woman, I do so the way I do when I buy a lottery ticket – an investment that could come to nothing and I do not have any bad feelings for the woman whatever the outcome. I want to remain friends with my ex girlfriends. I want to differentiate between trying to buy a woman and to show her that I am a responsible adult who would provide for her if we ended up together. I look at the meetings as an evaluation process when any of us can pull out.

Like everybody advises, enjoy the company, enjoy the holiday, but best of all, withdraw from a relationship gracefully. Let money only be a means of enabling you to meet and spend some time together, rather than a measure of commitment. No one can buy love.

Judging from the responses to your threads, you have contributed more to RMP than most.

GOOD LUCK on your next trip.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

This is just my opinion but I think it is time to "put Ms. Odessa to bed" and stop playing the "I told you so" game with RP. He was giving it his best shot, living up to his word, and it was something he had to do. To me this story has ended. I am now more interested in the Sumy girl if RP would be kind enough to fill us in.

Any travel dates set to see the Sumy girl?


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
This is just my opinion but I think it is time to "put Ms. Odessa to bed" and stop playing the "I told you so" game with RP. He was giving it his best shot, living up to his word, and it was something he had to do. To me this story has ended. I am now more interested in the Sumy girl if RP would be kind enough to fill us in.

Any travel dates set to see the Sumy girl?

Yes I agree GTR, lets start a thread RP on Ms Sumy now, we have heard enough about Odessa


Posted by: royalpalace774

I want you all to know that I am the kind of person that even when things seem to look like they will not turn out OK, I will still give it my all if I believe there is a chance for something to work out as I hoped it would.

Gtr & Chris, I am going to see the Sumy women and at least I still have that to look forward to. And Seaview, maybe in your eyes I am not worthy of the Odessa women and you do think she has acted totally normal with me.

And Goeast, when I told Ms Odessa on Saturday morning that I was finished in this story and I told her I think it was a good idea that she go home, I did it with all the love & kindness I could find. And when she pleaded with me to keep spending time with me I gave in & spent more time with her even though all of her answers were clear to me that she admitted that she had no attraction towards me as a women does for a husband.

I could have screamed & yelled and cursed her to hell but I didn't. I agreed to still hang out with her more even after hearing her say she loved me like a friend.

Goeast, I would have been OK being her friend, but I was just sick and tired of hearing her tell me that she wanted me to come back again in the summer to be with her. The one and only reason I or any man would come back a 3rd time to see this women would be because he or I was sure that this relationship was moving forward. And on this 2nd trip that women admitted that she did not intend this relationship to move forward and at the same time she was still able to drag me to the market, the herbal doctor, nice restaurants of her choice that I also liked the food at, I gave her $100 on day one so she would not have to teach her private pupils for the week. Twenty dollars a day to get home even when my other friends in Odessa told me I was giving her way to much for the taxi home. And I will bring up again for the last time the $200 I gave her so we could talk every day on Skype. Well she said it is a waste of time to talk on Skype and the phone is good enough without seeing each other while we speak.


There are a few people here on the forum who seem to think I might have not treated this women right or I expected to much or I am at fault here for going back when I should have taken a hint. When a women tells you the exact date she would like you to arrive to her city to see her and be with her that to me is a hint that SHE WANTS YOU THERE WITH HER. When a women tells you she thinks you are the best & kindest man she has ever met in her life and tells you before you arrive to see her that she is so happy that you are coming, what else would a man think.

I did my best to make this work with her and it was her that even said that she could never picture herself in bed with me, she could never live in my city with me and yet at the same time she is still telling me to come back in the summer to see if just maybe things could change.

If she would have stopped telling me to COME BACK IN THE SUMMER twenty times after I told her we were done on Saturday, I would have been a friend to her even though I am sure she is just out for gifts & presents.

WHY, because I still had a wonderful time with her when we were together. I will admit that I loved it when we were together. God, if she could have only been intimate with me in some way to let me know she wanted this with me she would have been the perfect person that I would have been happy with for life. I enjoyed every moment with her & I am truly amazed that it ended the way it did.

I really loved it, every single second of it except when we were in shops or malls or the market. And she will always still be someone who I will hope will find the love & happiness a human being on this planet should have.

It's crazy and I will admit I MISS HER. But she said we were not going to be what I hoped for. It's amazing how 2 people could have such great times together as if we were married and in love but we had absolutely no intimacy because she would not let it happen. She had no problem at all telling me the price of something she wanted in a store also.

If there would have been some type of intimacy between us I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind I would have fallin deeply in love with her.

Yes the story is over and I am moving on. But I won't lie to you, I loved our time together incredibly, I just didn't like being BATED so she could get things.


Anyone here who thinks I was a bad guy or I am an idiot or you think I treat women with no respect can think what you want. I don't have one regret at all of what I did or said last week in Odessa.

Exactly one week ago today not only did I end it with her, I had one of the best times in my entire life going to the Fortress with her, as if we were on a honey moon as a married couple but with no kissing or intimacy , a women I would have devoted my soul & life to forever if she would have let it happen.

It is crazy and you guys can think I am crazy , I miss her & our being together was great, but it just was not meant to be according to her answers to my questions.


Posted by: Pin Boy

rp, i think you really put the period on your thread with your last post that addressed the posts of others. if you want the thread locked, as has been suggested, just say the word.

pb


Posted by: Moe123

RP

In one of your recent messages to me you said consent comes before making love. But after all you've been through with her, how could you say that? You had consent. You were physically together. YOU HAD CONSENT. She was practically in your arms. It seems all you did was talk yourself out of it. And that is what you have been doing since your last reply to me. How on earth can you allow yourself to waste so much time, and play these games with yourself? And don't say you are not or were not playing any games. Because though you may not realise it, it's all it amounts to. I am your age, I don't smoke what you were talking about and I am sober. I think you need to "check your breaks". The woman did not have to tell you what to do. And she did not have to take the initiative. These things were, and still are, up to you. In other words, you should not have expected her to take the lead. "The ball is in your court". Guess who managers the balls. Lol.

Moe


Posted by: Chillidog

RP,
I am sorry that things did not workout for you in Odessa.
I have given you my thoughts on some past issues because as you had stated you wanted to know how other's felt, this is what I wrote -my thoughts-, but always hopefully in a manner that was helpful to you.
Your choice to go to Odessa again was "correct' for you, if you did not go to Odessa, you would have always wondered "did we have enough to build a life together?" You now have your answers, it is not easy to just shift gears to another woman, you had and still have feelings, kind thoughts and good memories of Odessa.
Try your best to put Odessa behind you and to not let it affect your thoughts on the Sumy woman. As you know, but it might help to remind you, some similiar circumstances may come up between Odessa and Sumy, but each woman is different, treat them as individuals.
I wish you Luck and hope in Sumy you will find what you search for!!!!
and I encourage you to continue to do things the way 'you see best'


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Seaview, Where did you ever read that I gave her no gifts? ....
Also Seaview I brought with me for her A $45.00 Ipod, beach pants $25.00, 2 T shirts $40.00 , Clinique eye cream $42.00 & for her mom 1 Tshirt $22.00, beach pants $25.00


OMG... It's a normal "giftsgiving" that accompanies courtship. Did you hope to come to Odessa and give her a shampoo pack from your hotel? It's not funny, BTW. Some guys do that and are surprised why their ladies are not happy. THey are not happy because it's an insult.

As for everything you listed it's not something unusual. Normal small gifts... From a cynical point of view I don't understand why to waste so much time on a guy for an iPOD and an eye cream. She is either damn cheap and really poor as a mouse or she really liked you and hoped chemistry would appear in your relationship afterwards.

Quote:
Also Seaview how do you explain that I told her I was done with her 2 days after I got there because she only said we were great friends and I tell her to go home & she refuses to go home & begs me to let her be with me for the day.


Women... She doesn't know what she wants but she is really not ready for a serious relationship. The worst thing possible she has that serious relationship with somebody else.

Quote:
Also , this women loves to take you into shops & try on clothes & ask you what you think. When a women tries on something that costs 2 times her salary at work when she is with a man from abroad, it kind of tells you something.


Totally agree... Very bad manner... But it's acceptable IF you take a guy to that expensive shop, try on something you like , show it to him then pay for it yourself so that he was aware of your possible future demands

Quote:
Day 1-5 , dining in nice restaurants except 3 times in McDonalds.


ok, ok...

Quote:
I made the choice to go back obviously because she asked me to come back. But her excuse was I should have known we were only friends if she was not intimate at all with me.


And what did you expect? She tried to be polite.

Quote:
Seaview, she told me she never loved that guy she was going to marry. So do FSU women really need time to get over such things when they don't even love someone.


Not only FSU women but women of all shapes and forms sometimes fall in love after marriage.

Quote:
To sum it up for you Seaview. I think she is a scammer with the only difference being , she would never ask for money. She would just try to convince you to spend & buy her things.


I would have agreed with you if you had bought her a diamond ring or a fur coat. Visiting restaurants and buying small gifts is something self-evident. You did it yourself and nobody forced you to do that and there is nothing to talk about.

Quote:
I hope you are somewhat clear on what I have told you here. If you would like to know anything else about the women who you think is a saint, just let me know and I will tell you


I told you she is not saint many pages ago, I don't care about her and don't like her. Her behaviour is cheap and stupid. But you knew that yourself.


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe123
RP

In one of your recent messages to me you said consent comes before making love. But after all you've been through with her, how could you say that? You had consent. You were physically together. YOU HAD CONSENT. She was practically in your arms. It seems all you did was talk yourself out of it. And that is what you have been doing since your last reply to me. How on earth can you allow yourself to waste so much time, and play these games with yourself? And don't say you are not or were not playing any games. Because though you may not realise it, it's all it amounts to. I am your age, I don't smoke what you were talking about and I am sober. I think you need to "check your breaks". The woman did not have to tell you what to do. And she did not have to take the initiative. These things were, and still are, up to you. In other words, you should not have expected her to take the lead. "The ball is in your court". Guess who managers the balls. Lol.

Moe


Listen Moe, I am going to be straight up with you. Being physically together with a women because she is with you is NOT CONSENT FOR INTIMACY. I don't think to myself that because a women is with me she will do as I want and give into everything like my puppet. This is your opinion and that's all it is right now. YOUR OPINION.

And I see you are at 20 posts on this forum and I checked a little of your history here and I see that you were 20 thousand dollars into this dating thing of going to the Ukraine and you have been getting scammed left & right. So you have some knowledge her about what can happen when you go there even when you have the most positive attitude. These are your exact words from another thread written by you:

I've been scammed a lot but can I bring anybody to account? One lady even faked her own death in a car accident, after scamming me for $2000 and a large Gold and Diamond engagement ring. Part of the scam occured while I was with her in person. She was not working alone of course, she's with a dirty gang. It's part of their deep seated communal nature. Can one man alone make it? What a jungle.

And you have been doing this for 3 years & you have not been successful with any one of the women you met there yet. I think you are married to a Ukraine women , but that's fallen apart also.


From reading what you have been thru I don't blame you for getting a little crazy here. But all I can say is that you didn't have your eyes open enough & you got taken for a dirty ride. So I see where you are coming from. I also think you must be at least a little angry about what happened to you.

No one needs to tell me what to do. I did take the initiative. But I got a negative response back. If a women wants to be intimate with you or me , she will. If she doesn't want it, it's not going to happen.

There is no tricks to convince her of what she should do.

I am happy to know that you are a guy that no women would ever refuse. What's your secret for being so desirable where you have NEVER been turned down?

I am glad to hear that you are in control & she has absolutely no say in the matter. When she doesn't want to make love to you do you drag her by her hair to convince her. lol

You are correct in saying I should take the lead. I did take the lead & she would not give in. So what does a guy do when he takes the lead 5 or 6 times and the women is not giving in. Force it like you suggest or ask questions to get the answers?

I do take the lead in everything I do in my life that is why I have the confidence to tell you that you are in a daze when it comes to dating FSU women.

Nothing personal Moe. We think differently. You are OK with that aren't you?

Remember one thing Moe, when it comes to dating FSU women, the ball is never 100% in your court. Never! You of all people who have constantly been scammed should know this. YOU may think it is. But it truly isn't.

The ball is in both of your court's. It takes two to get to the finish line. And the finish line is not a roll in the hay. It's to love , trust, commitment & marriage.

You have alot to learn and go thru when it comes to FSU women. Unless perhaps you are not telling me that you are all ready happily married to an FSU women now? Come on Moe, you are still at it like I am and you also have spent alot of money going there & you still have not been successful yet finding the right women. You have found ll of the wrong women.

This is nothing personal. Like you I have an opinion when it comes to FSU dating. You may have more knowledge about American or English women. But I surely don't agree with anything you have to say about my time in Odessa. What's right for you does not have to be right for me.

And Moe, I do wish you the best & hope that you find the right one there also.

You have been thru more hell & heartache than me with FSU women.


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
OMG... It's a normal "giftsgiving" that accompanies courtship. Did you hope to come to Odessa and give her a shampoo pack from your hotel? It's not funny, BTW. Some guys do that and are surprised why their ladies are not happy. THey are not happy because it's an insult.

As for everything you listed it's not something unusual. Normal small gifts... From a cynical point of view I don't understand why to waste so much time on a guy for an iPOD and an eye cream. She is either damn cheap and really poor as a mouse or she really liked you and hoped chemistry would appear in your relationship afterwards.



Women... She doesn't know what she wants but she is really not ready for a serious relationship. The worst thing possible she has that serious relationship with somebody else.



Totally agree... Very bad manner... But it's acceptable IF you take a guy to that expensive shop, try on something you like , show it to him then pay for it yourself so that he was aware of your possible future demands



ok, ok...



And what did you expect? She tried to be polite.



Not only FSU women but women of all shapes and forms sometimes fall in love after marriage.



I would have agreed with you if you had bought her a diamond ring or a fur coat. Visiting restaurants and buying small gifts is something self-evident. You did it yourself and nobody forced you to do that and there is nothing to talk about.



I told you she is not saint many pages ago, I don't care about her and don't like her. Her behaviour is cheap and stupid. But you knew that yourself.


Hi Seaview, I always enjoy hearing what you have to say. As far as the gift giving, I would never do something like the shampoo thing from the hotel as you described.

On my 1st trip to see her I brought her a very nice tennis braclet that was at least about $350.00. And a beautiful jewelry box & some other beautiful things. Believe it or not Seaview, I have class & taste. And I really enjoy putting a smile on someone's face when I give them something.

Your comment on women falling in love after marriage I must say is something I surely would never want to happen to me. Maybe many FSU women think it's normal. But I think it's terrible to marry someone & not love them with the hopes that it will happen later down the road. I don't like it at all.

Also I have yet to ever see a typical FSU women on a $50.00 a week salary take a man into a shop & try on something that costs $85.00 & pay for it herself. I'm sure it happens, but only with a women that has a great salary maybe in Moscow such as yourself. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying it probably hardly ever happens. Once in 5000 times maybe. Those are my odds & opinion.

And you also think her behavior is cheap & stupid. And yes I knew that and I did what I did and no one forced me into anything. I don't regret anything I did Seaview. I do things because I want to. Not because I feel forced. I think I remember you saying a few months ago you did not like her. But I forgot why.


Posted by: Moe123

RP

You're right I have been through a real hard time with Ukrainian women. Imagine getting so close to marriage and then finding out your woman died in a car accident. And then 2 weeks after going through some terrible grief and hoping it all wasn't true, and your hopes and wishes suddenly become a reality, and you actually find out that the death wasn't true, it's all pretty awful.

But no I am not presently married to any woman at all. Not Ukrainian, not any at all.

Yes our situations are different. But after all that has happened to me, I know I have learned a lot from my mistakes. And yes I admit I made some mistakes, I know it. Knowbody's perfect. And that is why I am on the forum. It was suggested to me that a forum is necessary especially for people who want to avoid future mistakes with FSU women, and especially to avoid getting scammed.

So after all I've said about how I saw your circumstances with that Odessa chick, I believe I was saying what I said from the point of view of a man who knows better, because of his past and not regardless of his past.

There is just one last thing I'd like to say about you and that Odessa chick. If I were you, I would have taken her agreement to be beside me and in my arms as consent. The body language would have been enough. Simply because I know women do not always mean what they say, and they frequently change their minds and attitudes. Men can be like that too sometimes.

If I cared about her, and I went through what you went through and I am still fond of her enough to want to marry her, I would see if I cannot organize it for her to come to my town as a friend and prospective spouse to marry me. I would tell her after missing her, how much I love her and how much I miss her. And what we had was indeed intimate, friendship IS a definition of intimacy, and the greater intimacy would come with marriage. Especially because if she does not know herself, in her heart marriage and children in a family of her own is the ownly rational next step. If she wants to be happy, and if her mother is all she has, and she is all her mother has, I'd say that down the track if she wants I could bring her mother to America too. Beside some very well known golden rules, there aren't any hard and fast rules and some persuasion can go a long way.

For me a good eternal marriage would be the most precious and most valuable thing in the world. Therefore some clever pleading and begging would be well worth it. You don't have to be an expert at begging, but you can get out of your comfort zone and find out, for the sake of true everlasting love. And if I can make her laugh with some jokes all the better to make her fall for me even more. The best things are often difficult to get, and they do need some work. In other words nothing good ever comes easily. Those who don't think so are only fooling themselves. Time is of the essence, ambivalence can be cruel, and we are not getting any younger. I wish you too, all the best.


Posted by: Pin Boy

i think what is being forgotten in the whole consent debate is that RP DID take her body language as consent because he did try to kiss her a few times and she turned her face away. i don't know how people keep missing that....

pb


Posted by: GoingToRussia

"Hey Moe",

I don't think you've heard or maybe understood anything RP has written in this thread so I'll abbreviate it for you.

1. She turned away when he tried to kiss her
2. She said she doesn't want to be naked with him
3. She said she doesn't want to have sex with him
4. She said he is like a father to her

Now I don't know if it is legal to have have sex with your daughter in Austrailia but in the USA it is illegal and frowned upon by society.

When a person says "NO" we interpret it as not wanting to do something or not wanting something or disagreeing with something. It doesn't mean maybe or ask me later.

I think RP is also correct in saying you are playing some sort of weird game with mind.


Posted by: BluesTraveler

RP: I agree with the others, I don't think there is any need to keep re-hashing the events of your trip to Odessa. It is good that you have shared so many details from the situation, here is hoping that people who read it can learn from the situation. It is over, and I think you have learned everything you can from the situation.

Besides you are moving on, to bigger and better things. Best of luck in Sumy.


Posted by: Buckeye5704

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesTraveler
RP: I agree with the others, I don't think there is any need to keep re-hashing the events of your trip to Odessa. It is good that you have shared so many details from the situation, here is hoping that people who read it can learn from the situation. It is over, and I think you have learned everything you can from the situation.

Besides you are moving on, to bigger and better things. Best of luck in Sumy.



DITTO!


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesTraveler
RP: I agree with the others, I don't think there is any need to keep re-hashing the events of your trip to Odessa. It is good that you have shared so many details from the situation, here is hoping that people who read it can learn from the situation. It is over, and I think you have learned everything you can from the situation.

Besides you are moving on, to bigger and better things. Best of luck in Sumy.


Ditto2!


Posted by: Moe123

GTR

I was not playing mind games or any game for that matter. The whole thing now seems absurd, especially if you can see that earlier RP and seaview said the Odessa woman was stupid or something to that effect. If that was the case she was neither true to herself nor true to him. And for that she needs time and/or counselling to wake up to herself.

When he tried to kiss her were they alone and in a private room? Or were they in a place where others could see them?
When she said she doesn't want to be naked with him, what were the circumstances surrounding that? Same for her saying she didn't want to have sex with him. What were the circumstances surrounding that?
For him to be like a father to her he would need to be at least 18 years her senior. But I recall he was no where near that. Even if there were many 13 or 14 year old boys who are fathers at 13 or 14 in Russia and other countries it boils down to nothing but a lame excuse. The excuse is there to hide the truth. In other words there are other reasons for doing what she did. I would try to find out the truth about this woman.
Also this woman begged him not to tell the manager of the agency about her story with that other man. I would tell the manager just to get to the truth. Cut the crap and let the truth be the guide.

Moe


Posted by: Moe123

GTR

Also, there are women out their who want their man to be everything to them, father, brother, friend and lover.
So I think with this Odessa chick there is much to uncover.

Moe


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe123
GTR

I was not playing mind games or any game for that matter. The whole thing now seems absurd, especially if you can see that earlier RP and seaview said the Odessa woman was stupid or something to that effect. If that was the case she was neither true to herself nor true to him. And for that she needs time and/or counselling to wake up to herself.

When he tried to kiss her were they alone and in a private room? Or were they in a place where others could see them?
When she said she doesn't want to be naked with him, what were the circumstances surrounding that? Same for her saying she didn't want to have sex with him. What were the circumstances surrounding that?
For him to be like a father to her he would need to be at least 18 years her senior. But I recall he was no where near that. Even if there were many 13 or 14 year old boys who are fathers at 13 or 14 in Russia and other countries it boils down to nothing but a lame excuse. The excuse is there to hide the truth. In other words there are other reasons for doing what she did. I would try to find out the truth about this woman.
Also this woman begged him not to tell the manager of the agency about her story with that other man. I would tell the manager just to get to the truth. Cut the crap and let the truth be the guide.

Moe


Seaview said her behavior was cheap & stupid & that I all ready knew that.

When I tried to kiss her we were ALWAYS ALONE. Even times when we were both sitting on my bed together because my computer was in the bedroom.

She said that she thought that she was such a young beautiful lady with such a great body that I would be uncomfortable being naked next to her. That was a pretty bold statement for her to say considering I go to the gym 4-5 times a week & am in tip top shape all around. I could not understand her statement at all . I'm sure all my friends in the U.S would have heard her if I was making love to her if you get my drift.. lol

Strange thing to say to me, I remember my ex on my last 3 days with me couldn't get enough & a few times said I can we take a rest for a minute.

I am 16 years older than Ms Odessa. She is 30 and I am 46

She didn't BEG me not to tell the manager about her almost previous wedding. She asked me not to say anything about it.

But I did tell her & the manager said she never knew anything about her getting married or even having intentions to get married.

The married story is possibly true because I recall when I 1st called this women on the phone I could tell she was upset about something but I just couldn't tell what it might have been. She also said a close family friend died when we started talking in the beginning also.

At times I thought the almost getting married story was her perfect excuse to not let me get close to her, because on trip 1 she said when I tried to kiss her that she was not ready. She said she was still affected by the situation of getting dumped & not marrying the other guy even though she thought he was a horrible guy for lying and doing what her did.

I hope this clears up anything for you MOE.


Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe123
GTR

I was not playing mind games or any game for that matter. The whole thing now seems absurd, especially if you can see that earlier RP and seaview said the Odessa woman was stupid or something to that effect. If that was the case she was neither true to herself nor true to him. And for that she needs time and/or counselling to wake up to herself.

When he tried to kiss her were they alone and in a private room? Or were they in a place where others could see them?
When she said she doesn't want to be naked with him, what were the circumstances surrounding that? Same for her saying she didn't want to have sex with him. What were the circumstances surrounding that?
For him to be like a father to her he would need to be at least 18 years her senior. But I recall he was no where near that. Even if there were many 13 or 14 year old boys who are fathers at 13 or 14 in Russia and other countries it boils down to nothing but a lame excuse. The excuse is there to hide the truth. In other words there are other reasons for doing what she did. I would try to find out the truth about this woman.
Also this woman begged him not to tell the manager of the agency about her story with that other man. I would tell the manager just to get to the truth. Cut the crap and let the truth be the guide.

Moe

Moe,

RP, is no longer in Odessa and it would appear (I hope) that this Odessa woman is now out of RP's life. Whatever the reasons for her actions and behaviors, whatever truths or untruths in actions or spoken words will remain unresolved and unanswered. RP is no longer asking additional questions or looking for additional answers from this Odessa women. All that you are doing now is "beating a dead horse'
let it go


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Also I have yet to ever see a typical FSU women on a $50.00 a week salary take a man into a shop & try on something that costs $85.00 & pay for it herself. I'm sure it happens, but only with a women that has a great salary maybe in Moscow such as yourself. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying it probably hardly ever happens. Once in 5000 times maybe. Those are my odds & opinion.


It happens more often than once in 5000 times But guys probably have even more problems with such RW than with AW.

Quote:
I think I remember you saying a few months ago you did not like her. But I forgot why.


Was it her who asked you to buy her a bracelett (or a watch) in duty free after the first meeting? It's actually normal to ask a friend to buy something in duty free because it's 20%-30% cheaper than in usual shops ( and to pay for this) but you were not close friends at that time and it looked suspicious.


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
It happens more often than once in 5000 times But guys probably have even more problems with such RW than with AW.



Was it her who asked you to buy her a bracelett (or a watch) in duty free after the first meeting? It's actually normal to ask a friend to buy something in duty free because it's 20%-30% cheaper than in usual shops ( and to pay for this) but you were not close friends at that time and it looked suspicious.


Yes , it was her who asked me to buy her a watch when I was on the plane from Duty Free. But before our 1st meeting. I will be totally honest with you about how I feel about that situation.

I personally think it was out of place for her to ask me to do that when I have never ever met her and only exchanged about 6-7 phone calls at that time.

And her exact words were :Is it possible for you to get me this watch when you are on the plane from Prague. I will pay you back when you arrive & give me the watch.

I got her the watch and when I gave it to her on my 1st day of meeting her she gave me a kiss on the cheek and said thank you so much. She still did not mention that she was going to pay me back as she said she would. She waited about 4 or 5 days and said to me "Is it possible if I pay you a little in a few days & the rest when you come back to see me again"..

So she never did what she actually said she was going to do. She obviously thought that I would say forget about it. And I did , I told her don't worry about it. But if I look at her habits of dragging me to the market & other various shops It is obvious she felt that I would get her a few things.

And I did get her a few things. On trip #1 I went with her to the market & of course she said we should go there because there will probably be many things I would like to get for myself. The obvious reason she wanted to go the the market was for me to get her a few things that day. Seaview I personally think you did not like her style of asking me to buy her something and not knowing me at all.

Seaview I am willing to bet anything that there was no way that she ever intended to give me anything for that watch I got her on the plane on my 1srt trip to see her. And I think you agree with that also.

I know for a fact that her salary at that time was $40.oo a week. That watch was $82.00 total. She knew I would say forget it and she took advantage of it. Just like after I told her we were done & she should go home on Saturday morning , she sill asked me to buy her something for her hair in a mall and I also remember her holding my arm & she lead us into a women's clothes shop and her exact words were I want to just try something on. So she tries something on and comes out of the dressing room & looks at me with these cute eyes & asks me what do I think of the outfit she has tried on. I tell her it looks nice and she then said to me it is a very good price , only $80.00 for the shirt & top that goes with it.

And this was the day after I told her I was done with her but I was still hanging out with her. At that very moment I got a knot in my stomach thinking WOW can you believe she has got the nerve to actually try to com me into getting that for he after I told her the day before I was done with her.

That amazes me Seaview. I think you have a real knowledge of this kind of thinking only because you live there & you see it all the time. What makes a women who just got told by a man the day before to go home ask him in a cute way to buy her things or clothes and spend his money on her.

Seaview you asked or mentioned once if she is poor I think. My answer to you is this. I guess so because any one in my eyes who has a salary of $40-50 a week is barely making ends meet at all.

Seaview I think it all makes sense especially when you think of how she could tell me that she is such a young & beautiful women with a beautiful body that any man would desire and she was sure I would feel very uncomfortable being naked together with her.

The fact is that being that I go to the gym 4-5 days a week and I am in total top shape I would have to say that I am in way better shape for my size & height than she is for her height & size.

My Sumy women sent me a surprise text today & said I wish you a beautiful day & I send you kisses. She is always surprising me with these little texts when I least expect them. She will be my 6th time to the Ukraine.

She mentioned to me in her last letter if she thought we might want to spend any time in Odessa this summer together because she knows it's a nice place to be in summertime by the sea.

I don't know about that. I might have horrible luck with her if I am in Odessa again. But on the other hand I am not supersticious about that kind of stuff.


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by RP
She mentioned to me in her last letter if she thought we might want to spend any time in Odessa this summer together because she knows it's a nice place to be in summertime by the sea.

I don't know about that. I might have horrible luck with her if I am in Odessa again. But on the other hand I am not supersticious about that kind of stuff.


Don't even entertain it, go some place else instead if you want but not Odessa, you are asking for trouble, get as far away from that City as you can IMHO, superstitious or not, it has done nothing good for you.


Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismc
Don't even entertain it, go some place else instead if you want but not Odessa, you are asking for trouble, get as far away from that City as you can IMHO, superstitious or not, it has done nothing good for you.


I agree 100%!

BTW, Did that watch quit you bought in the dutyfree shop? A Russian superstition is never give a watch as a gift. When the watch quits the relationship will end.


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
I agree 100%!

BTW, Did that watch quit you bought in the dutyfree shop? A Russian superstition is never give a watch as a gift. When the watch quits the relationship will end.


She wore the watch everyday I was with her last week. It is running perfectly.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Yes a new superstition I found out about is, "you will not proceed in a relationship if your watch has stopped". My fiancee had 2 stopped watches and her son had 1. She says this is why our visa had problems and is taking so long. She got batteries for all 3 now and things are moving ahead ... I hope. I hope she gets her visa in about 3 weeks.


Posted by: Moe123

RP

I agree with Chrismc. Once I knew a lady in the city of Poltava. When she found out I was going to see another woman she went crazy. She thought I was going there just for her. But I did not make her any promises. Anyway it turned out the other woman and I were incompatible. Nothing worked out for me in that town. Then on a second visit I met the one who faked her death. After that I thought this town's bad luck for me.


Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
Yes a new superstition I found out about is, "you will not proceed in a relationship if your watch has stopped". My fiancee had 2 stopped watches and her son had 1. She says this is why our visa had problems and is taking so long. She got batteries for all 3 now and things are moving ahead ... I hope. I hope she gets her visa in about 3 weeks.

GTR, I would ship your fiancee thousands of batteries if I were you ASAP


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Well after the news I got today ... maybe there is something to these superstitions ... my lawyer has my divorce certificate!!!


Posted by: royalpalace774

I talked to my Sumy women yesterday and the plan is to meet in Kiev and spend a few days there & then go to either Yalta or Crimea. Which place do you guys think is better, Yalta 0r Crimea.

We don't have the exact date that I will go yet because she is waiting to find out her teaching schedule and her exact time off. She said she will know the exact time she is off by mid May.

We will not go to Odessa. She even said she thinks these other 2 places are just as nice or nicer in the summer months.


Posted by: subcom117

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalpalace774
Which place do you guys think is better, Yalta 0r Crimea.


Crimea is the entire peninsula, the entire Republic. Yalta is a city within the Republic. I stayed in Sevastopol and it is an interesting and historic City. Apartments were very reasonable in the city center. Yalta is considered a holiday resort area and has better beaches.

Since you're purpose is to spend time with your woman, I'm sure either would work well.


Posted by: Chrismc

Good idea RP, I think you will find Yalta and Crimea summer time are as good as you can get. My wife used to go to Crimea every summer and tells me there are some beautiful places there.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

I've always wanted to visit Yalta. It was where Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin met for a conference. I'm sure they would have some historical sites ... if you're into that sort of stuff.


Posted by: Pin Boy

yes, the mountains in crimea are beautiful, but keep your expectations realistic when going to the black sea. rocky, pebbled (is that a word?) beaches. the water is dark and often cold, and unfortunately, the places i visited were like the rest of ukraine as far as trash strewn in many, many places. on the flip side, there are many gorgeous two-legged sights

pb


Posted by: sidney

I like the different recreations not available in the states like the air banana boat rides. They yank you behind a fast boat and pile about 6 people on an air mattress that looks like a banana. There are photo oportunities with camels or monkeys or snakes usually for about 5 dollars. You can buy and eat little salty, smoked shrimps on the beach as well as drink whatever you brung. The hotels are much cheaper then the ocean where we go in the states but not as nice.
Sid


Posted by: Pin Boy

i've seen the banana boat on lakes around here. it does look pretty fun!


Posted by: Moe123

Does anyone know?

It has been said that a woman who does not get along with her father, is a difficult woman for a man to relate to. What if a woman does not get along with her mother? Is having a relationship with her as difficult as with the one who cannot get along with her father? And what about if the father is divorced from the mother? Also, what about if the father died when he was fairly young, like in his thirties or forties?


Posted by: BluesTraveler

Moe123: There is no general rule that can be applied in these situations. Every person is different, and everyone's life experiences are different. A woman could have a great relationship with both parents and be a spoiled brat. It is the individual person, how they have adjusted, and how they relate to others which determines these things.

If there are other common grounds for you both to stand on...then take it from there.


Posted by: royalpalace774

Hi Guys,
Can any of you point me to some nice apartments in Kiev. I will meet my Sumy women there sometime after July 15th. I will get us a 2 bedroom apartment for a few days or 1 week. If you have any links I can go to to it would be appreciated.

Chrismc, I think you have been to Kiev a few times. Anything you could point me to as far as apartments.


Posted by: Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
I've always wanted to visit Yalta. It was where Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin met for a conference. I'm sure they would have some historical sites ... if you're into that sort of stuff.


During that conference the members of American delegation were disposed in the Livadia Palace where the first conference was held in February 4 of 1945; and after the first conference Roosevelt organized a dinner in honor of members of the conference.

Olga (Legal's wife)


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalpalace774
Hi Guys,
Can any of you point me to some nice apartments in Kiev. I will meet my Sumy women there sometime after July 15th. I will get us a 2 bedroom apartment for a few days or 1 week. If you have any links I can go to to it would be appreciated.

Chrismc, I think you have been to Kiev a few times. Anything you could point me to as far as apartments.

Avalon Restaurant ... it has a "mermaid" swimming in a tank of water for 15 minutes on the hour. You have to call ahead and reserve the room.

http://www.kiev.info/food/avalon.htm

http://www.kiev.info/food/index.htm

There is also a nice restaurant inside the Adria Hotel on the main floor. Turn right after you enter the hotel and keep to the right. There is also a money machine to the left of the doors when you enter. I used it many times with no problems.


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalpalace774
Hi Guys,
Can any of you point me to some nice apartments in Kiev. I will meet my Sumy women there sometime after July 15th. I will get us a 2 bedroom apartment for a few days or 1 week. If you have any links I can go to to it would be appreciated.

Chrismc, I think you have been to Kiev a few times. Anything you could point me to as far as apartments.


RP

You will struggle to get an apartment for a couple of days, a week is usually the minimum, but try here and here and here anyway and this is a fantastic site with tons of infromation.

I have stayed in the Kreschatyk Hotel, right on Independence Square, an old and very well known place, and only 50 metres to the fountains etc, but it has seen better days and needs some money spending on it, however if only for 2 or 3 days it is adequate.

Chris


Posted by: royalpalace774

Thanks guys for the links. When I meet my Sumy women in Kiev I don't know exactly how many days we will stay there, but I do know we will also go to Yalta or Crimea.

I guess I should also look into places to stay in Yalta. And then after going to Yalta I'm pretty sure we will have to go back to Kiev so I could get my flight home to the States.

My Sumy women doesn't speak good enough English for me to make exact plans yet on the phone. I guess I can write it in a letter to her and see what she thinks.

I would like to see Kiev for about 3 or 4 days & then go to Yalta or Crimea. And after Yalta or Crimea , go back to Kiev for a day or 2 before I go home.

Any suggestions on how I could plan seeing Kiev & Yalta. I guess the thing to do is to be sure of the dates we will stay in Kiev in an apt and then try and be sure of the dates we will be in Yalta so I can reserve a place for us to stay.

Do any of you guys have any Yalta knowledge of places to stay. Preferably 2 bedroom apartments. Or is that a place for Hotels & no apartments?

This will be my 1st meeting with Ms Sumy. It will also be the summertime and I know she has time off from work and I would like to spend 2 weeks with her. What do you guys think? First meeting, go for one week or two?


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Go for 2 weeks so you get to know her and be with her a much as possible. You can always leave early if things don't work out.

I have a good feeling about this one RP. You've never said anything about her that raises a red flag.

Good luck and I wish you well.


Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalpalace774

This will be my 1st meeting with Ms Sumy. It will also be the summertime and I know she has time off from work and I would like to spend 2 weeks with her. What do you guys think? First meeting, go for one week or two?


RP,
for me the ideal situation would be to inform your lady you want to spend 2 weeks with her, but since you have never met before let us see how the 1st week goes, and if everything is going good stay for 2 weeks. This of course may be a booking/planning nightmare especially for the 2nd week, and the lady may need to know in advance how much time she needs to take off and devoute to you (arranging with work or other duties) so if the 'fly by the seat of your pants' approach will not work for the 2nd week. Then I would just plan from the start spending 2 full weeks together, and I would try to make these plans be full days spent together not a couple of hours after work each day, if that is the case just go with one week where you can maximize the amount of time each day spent together.


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillidog
RP,
for me the ideal situation would be to inform your lady you want to spend 2 weeks with her, but since you have never met before let us see how the 1st week goes, and if everything is going good stay for 2 weeks. This of course may be a booking/planning nightmare especially for the 2nd week, and the lady may need to know in advance how much time she needs to take off and devoute to you (arranging with work or other duties) so if the 'fly by the seat of your pants' approach will not work for the 2nd week. Then I would just plan from the start spending 2 full weeks together, and I would try to make these plans be full days spent together not a couple of hours after work each day, if that is the case just go with one week where you can maximize the amount of time each day spent together.


I all ready know for sure that when I meet her this summer she will be off from work and not have to go to her job.

I know for sure I will be there 1 week, I just need to ask her how she feels if I stay 2 weeks on our 1st meeting. I also know that if I only stay 1 week in the summer, she will then go back to her teaching job & who knows when she will get more time off? She has at least 5-6 weeks off in the summer. That is why I want to take advantage of her having that much time off.

I really want to stay there 3 weeks when I meet her. But I don't know what she will say until I ask her.

If my memory is correct I think I mentioned 2 weeks to her a few months ago and I think she said lets see how it goes for 1 week. I will ask her again and see what she says now.


Posted by: Chillidog

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalpalace774
I all ready know for sure that when I meet her this summer she will be off from work and not have to go to her job.

I know for sure I will be there 1 week, I just need to ask her how she feels if I stay 2 weeks on our 1st meeting. I also know that if I only stay 1 week in the summer, she will then go back to her teaching job & who knows when she will get more time off? She has at least 5-6 weeks off in the summer. That is why I want to take advantage of her having that much time off.

I really want to stay there 3 weeks when I meet her. But I don't know what she will say until I ask her.

If my memory is correct I think I mentioned 2 weeks to her a few months ago and I think she said lets see how it goes for 1 week. I will ask her again and see what she says now.

RP,
I was pretty sure in my mind what you said, but did not have time to read most of the end of this thread to confirm that, so I took the safe road and just wrote what I thought was 'ideal'.
I see that she will be able to spend 'full' days with you and I think this is very important.
My thought is if they cannot get the time off of work (and here I am talking first meeting, and this being a one week trip) and spend full days with me, and can only do a couple of hours a day after their work is ended. There is not enough time spent together and I feel a lack of commitment from her towards me, plus I think with work issues, she may have her mind on work when with me and not on developing a relationship and would not make this kind of trip.

So do the 2 week trip (or more), it sounds good, she looks like she will be as attentive to you as you will be to her, it all sounds good


Posted by: GoeastLJ

Hi RP,

Yalta was the first place I visited on my quest for 'the one' and I can tell you you would love it.

On our first full day, we went on a car-cable ride to Ai-Petri Mountain. This is two-part ride and, at 3.5km, is reputed to be one of Europe's longest cable-car rides. From here, you have a good view of the Black Sea and you can see as far as your eyes can take you. There is a plateau at the top and a lot of traders - food, horse/camel rides, sweet wine, decorative clothing, etc. This place looked so unspoilt - you would want to see it everyday - I am planning to take my wife (yes, wife) there in July.

Other places of interest Swallows Nest, Palaces (Alupka, Livadia, Massandra), Nikita or Nikitsky Botanical Gardens. I am an ex-Mining Engineer, and so I was very interested in the visit to the caves in Simferopol. Chekhov Museum is also near Yalta, if you are that inclined.

This was June 2006 and I stayed at the Bristol Hotel which I thought was excellent at 35 Euros per night - breakfast included.


Posted by: Moe123

RP

I think you can stay with the Sumy Lady as long as you want. If I were in your shoes and having never personally met the lady I would plan to be with her for one week and decide from there if I can stay with her longer. But as I am not in your shoes and don't know her as much as you, I reckon go for it and give her all you can, get ready to put your brakes on, this is the one. Lol.


Posted by: Moe123

RP

If you plan on spending just one week with the Sumy lady then you may have to shift gears but if you do it with instinct, what they call gut feeling, the change should be smooth.


Posted by: Moe123

RP

Above I said - get ready to put your brakes on. Sorry I meant to say - I think you ARE getting ready to put your brakes on.


Posted by: Raspberry

Just a reminder.......Sumy is physically closer to Kharkov, than any other international gateway airport in Ukraine. But in my recent travels, that there really isn't that much frequency of buses/train services, considering how close they are. In many instances, it is better to fly into Kiev instead.....you are really not getting much of an advantage flying into Kharkov if you have to wait.

Also, there is the deal with Kharkov's militia hassling foreigners, which I mentioned on another post. Please also note that sometimes the girls will list themselves as being from Sumy---which is technically true. But in reality they may live in the Western part of the Sumy Oblast, though not actually in the city. (Just like saying you are from "New York" when you actually live in Buffalo.....)


Posted by: royalpalace774

When I meet Ms. Sumy we are meeting in Kiev. Then we will go to Yalta after a few days. I don't think I will be any where near Karkov, but if I am I will look out for the Militia as you have been talking about them searching people.


Posted by: goforit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe123
Does anyone know?

It has been said that a woman who does not get along with her father, is a difficult woman for a man to relate to. What if a woman does not get along with her mother? Is having a relationship with her as difficult as with the one who cannot get along with her father? And what about if the father is divorced from the mother? Also, what about if the father died when he was fairly young, like in his thirties or forties?


Personally, I think you need to pay close attention to the relationship of your potential spouse with her parents. As a general rule, how she relates to her father is how she is going to relate to you. Are there exceptions? Of course, and I'm sure many will or already have chimed in about how it doesn't matter and you should evaluate each situation on its own.

But keep in mind that her dad in most instances, for better or worse, has been the central male figure in her life. If you marry her you will become, for better or worse, the central male figure in her life. Since how she relates within her family is a much more realistic picture of how she is going to relate to you when she is your family, the better part of wisdom says you should definitely be aware of just how she does that.

That, IMO, is one of the problems with dating. People put on exhibit A behaviour which usually is no indication of how they are going to react under the pressures of everyday living. That is why I like to see a woman in her normal environment without the pressures or false expectations of dating. It will tell you a lot more about her than dating ever will. That is also, IMO, one of the problems with being intimate too soon. Sex always changes things and can and often does affect our judgement about the character issues that will be the true determiner of the success of the relationship.

Her relationship with her mom will give you a good idea as to how she will relate to other women, even if she gets along great with her dad and subsequently with you.

The bottom line is family life, and the responses and reactions to it, aren't going to magically change after 18+ years of reacting one way, when she marries you and you become her new family, no matter how wonderful the dating period leading up to marriage. That is what makes family life a good though not infallible predictor of how your life with her will be should you marry.

If there was no father then you simply have to find a way to discover how she relates to men, especially those who have some authority over her, in the normal every day give and take of life. It could go either way but dating most likely won't give you that answer.


Posted by: goforit

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalpalace774

This will be my 1st meeting with Ms Sumy. It will also be the summertime and I know she has time off from work and I would like to spend 2 weeks with her. What do you guys think? First meeting, go for one week or two?


If it was me, I would makes plans to stay for two or three weeks, but only include her for the first week. We normally would not see anyone every day for two weeks in a row locally that we just met, and while traveling a long distance is a big deal, we still, IMO, need to balance it with reasonable expectations.

Two weeks seems to me to put a lot of pressure on things to work out immediately. I would just plan for a week with her and if it works out extend the time you spend with her. If not, move on and check out the local scene and perhaps some agencies in the area.

Just my .02


Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:
Originally Posted by goforit
Personally, I think you need to pay close attention to the relationship of your potential spouse with her parents. As a general rule, how she relates to her father is how she is going to relate to you. Are there exceptions? Of course, and I'm sure many will or already have chimed in about how it doesn't matter and you should evaluate each situation on its own.


You do say 'in general'... but there can be a lot of things that are mitigating factors... I have a few female friends who lived through incest.... they did not want to see their father at all (for good reason).. and when he died they did not go to the funeral... and have never had any regrets...

Also remember that some fathers really do not care at all about their kids... so if their kids do not care about them... well, it seem natural... but if YOU care about HER and she shows it back... I don't care how she treats her father..


Posted by: royalpalace774

I've been trying to call my Sumy women for about 5 days now and there is no connection. I get a letter from her today that she forgot to tell me her new phone number & she gives me the number in her letter. She apologized and asked me to please forgive her for such a mistake, So I put the number in Skype & dial it so I can talk to her. I then see that there is one number missing from the phone number and the phone number I have is not correct.

I bet the person who translated the letter for her from Russian to English at the Globaladies website made a blooper & left it out by accident or as a joke. So I sent her a letter asking her for the new correct phone number.

In her letter today to me she said she misses hearing my voice & is wondering what happened to me & why I haven't called her in a while. And then she realized that she did not give me her new number that she must have changed in the last week or two.

Today's letter from her was nice. She said she missed hearing my voice and she hopes I am still thinking about her.

I am really looking forward to meeting this one. There just seems to be a genuine sweetness aboput her that I am really liking.


Posted by: EasyTarget

RP: Now she seems more like the real deal. I am sure that the person doing the translating missed the number, most likely when she was typing it in, typed it too fast. Great that she mentions she misses talking to you. Good feeling about Ms. Sumy.

I am wondering will you need a translator when you visit with her?


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyTarget
RP: Now she seems more like the real deal. I am sure that the person doing the translating missed the number, most likely when she was typing it in, typed it too fast. Great that she mentions she misses talking to you. Good feeling about Ms. Sumy.

I am wondering will you need a translator when you visit with her?


I think the translator missed it also. I just hope the translator gets it right now. I sent my Sumy women a letter to her telling her I tried calling and the number is missing someting and I can't get through.

As far as the translator when we meet, I think I will try without one and see how it goes. I think there will be some fun times with Ms Sumy even if we have a little bit of not understanding each other. If we think we need it she mentioned that we will get one for a day or 2.

But I feel confident that even if there is a little problem we will still have a nice time .


Posted by: EasyTarget

RP: Maybe you should bring a dictionary and one of those electronic translators; for backup?


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyTarget
RP: Maybe you should bring a dictionary and one of those electronic translators; for backup?



THAT'S A POSSIBILITY! Where do I get an electronic translator!


Posted by: AkMike

We were in Yalta2 weeks ago and I'm sad to report that the Swallows Nest is no longer accessable by foot traffic! Theres some sort of dispute about the walkway getting there so you either need to have confirmed reservations or you can hitch a ride on one of the tour boats in the harbor area.
We did a day trip while based in Stevastopl. Same for Bela Kalava.
Because it's begining to be tourist season you may have a problem finding a hotel..
Good Luck!


Posted by: goforit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
You do say 'in general'... but there can be a lot of things that are mitigating factors...


Right, which is why I said in general.

Quote:
I have a few female friends who lived through incest.... they did not want to see their father at all (for good reason).. and when he died they did not go to the funeral... and have never had any regrets...


Right, which is why I said in general. It is also why I said it is not an infallible predictor. It is also why I said there will be exceptions.

Quote:
Also remember that some fathers really do not care at all about their kids... so if their kids do not care about them...


Right, which is why I said in general. It is also why I said it is not an infallible predictor. It is also why I said there will be exceptions.

Quote:
well, it seem natural... but if YOU care about HER and she shows it back... I don't care how she treats her father..


And since no one has a gun to your head, you are certainly entitled to your approach.


Posted by: royalpalace774

I got a letter back today from my Sumy girl and she gave me the correct phone number. I called her and she sounded so happy to hear my voice. She even said to me "I so happy hear your voice. That was a nice moment. I could hear little children in the backround and I said to her "You are busy at work with children? She said DA I then said I will call you later. She said DA DA DA

I get such a nice feeling from this girl. I hope when I take this next trip that she & I are a great fit together. I feel good about her. But we will see. So far it looks like I will see her either July 16th or I will go around Aug 1st. Haven't decided yet. I guess I will know for sure within a week or 2.


Posted by: Moe123

RP

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but I have just learned that it is good for you that the lady knows YOU are selecting HER and not vice versa. I think it has to do with knowing who is in control. But of course at the same time she needs to believe that she is right and in control also. It boils down to both of you needing to be right. I think it's a bit tricky but that's the way it is. The less mistakes both of you make, the better. This is about the general behaviour. My 2 cents.
What does IMO stand for?


Posted by: Moe123

RP

Also I have just learned that Ukrainians warm to you more when you use the Ukrainian language as opposed to Russian. So instead of "Da", better use "Tak" etc, etc, ect.


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe123
RP

Also I have just learned that Ukrainians warm to you more when you use the Ukrainian language as opposed to Russian. So instead of "Da", better use "Tak" etc, etc, ect.

It depends what part of Ukraine they are from, I would say in Sumy Russian is spoken more than Ukrainian, da / nyet or tak / ni especially with them being in Eastern Ukraine and close to the Russian border. Same as Kharkov just up the road are more pro Russian.

Now if she was in Western Ukraine then I would agree with you, but not when she is in/from Sumy.

Chris


Posted by: Chrismc

RP

You seem to be getting a lot more of the important and the proper signals from this lady compared to your last two women. Some of the things you mention in a few posts about this lady, already make her sound a lot more sincere and sweet to me.

Chris


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismc
RP

You seem to be getting a lot more of the important and the proper signals from this lady compared to your last two women. Some of the things you mention in a few posts about this lady, already make her sound a lot more sincere and sweet to me.

Chris


Thanks Chris,
I have a real good feeling with this women. I just hope when I meet her that it goes as good as I think it will. We don't speak normal conversations, yet we still laugh when I try and talk to her and it's a good sign. She said in her last letter to me that she misses my voice and she hopes I am still thinking about her. I told her on the phone HOROSHO I think that means everything is ok. And she laughed & said DA DA DA.

I am excited to see her in person.


Posted by: EasyTarget

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalpalace774
THAT'S A POSSIBILITY! Where do I get an electronic translator!
Where else??? eBay of course!!! If not eBay I would look at amazon.com. I think if you search RMP there were some posts comparing the different models.


Posted by: sidney

Radio shack also has translators. Ebay is the least expensive route and has more choices.
Sid


Posted by: royalpalace774

I just went on ebay to look at some electronic translators & they have many. I found one for $49.00 that you type in the phrase or words you want to say and it says them in the language you pick. I kind of like that.

Any one have a particular model that you think I should check out. There are alot to pick from. Any of you guys have any recomendations on a particular model I should look at?


Posted by: subcom117

Elena Petrova has some recommendations on her website:

http://www.womenrussia.com/dictionaries.htm


Posted by: royalpalace774

Hi guys, I found this on ebay. Any thoughts on this item.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...em=310049662131

I like that I can say something in English into it and it repeats what I said in Russian. I think that is pretty cool to have with you if you ae with a Russian women that speaks very very little English.

Here is another one for less money.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...rksid=p3907.m29

What do you think? The top one or the bottom one?


Posted by: EasyTarget

RP: I would be worried that the electronic translator would not be able to understand what you are saying correctly. Voice to text translation is extremely difficult, and if you are in a noisy restaurant -- good luck. I think being able to type the words is the best option. BESIDES...you are just using it for emergencies and for looking up key words. If you look up a few key words you will be able to get your point across.

Besides you will get a better reading of her intentions towards you by how much effort she puts into the conversation.


Posted by: subcom117

RP,
It looks like the biggest difference is that one, the XL-1500, is mostly a talking dictionary. It appears you have to type in what you want to say and it uses TTL to speak it in Russian.

The other, ECTACO iTRVL English Russian NTL-2R Translator, has voice recognition. You speak into it and it translates and speaks in Russian. This would be my choice, as it would be like having your own personal translator. It sounds like it would be an effective tool to help you learn Russian, if that is what you want.

It would be preferable to experience its usage in person to hear the quality of the translation.

Good luck in your visit with your Sumy woman.


Posted by: royalpalace774

I talked to my Sumy women today & had a great time on the phone talking & laughing with her even with the language differences. She told me today she is off from Aug 1st until Sept 15th. So I think I will go around Aug 5th for 2 weeks.

Also today I got a letter from a women I have also been writing to in Vinitsa, Ukraine. It said her English was a 3 out of 5. Anyway she told me in her letter she is worried about me because I haven't written to her in a few weeks and she also gave me her phone number to call her. So I called her & her English was a 5. I was surprised and we also hit it off great for our 1st conversation. At one point she asked me to speak a little slower.

So now I have another one in the fire for a possibility. This women works for an internet company ad she used to be a school teacher. She was very nice on the phone and I really enjoyed our conversation. We covered alot of ground. he told me she has been to Egypt, Prague, Moscow and she dreams of going to where I live one day. She said I know you live where it is always like summertime everyday. I told her yes I do.

It was nice. Now my only dillemma is I know have another women I think I am going to want to meet at some point. So Ms. Vinitsa now is a possible.


Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalpalace774
It was nice. Now my only dillemma is I know have another women I think I am going to want to meet at some point. So Ms. Vinitsa now is a possible.



Not trying to tell you how to do things.... but just my two cents....

This process can appear to be a candy store... look at all the beautiful women that are interested in ME!! But, these are real women (well, the non scammers ones are).... and they do have 'feelings'.... I can tell you that my lady STILL has some issue on me visiting the lady from the Ukraine before visiting her... and I had been writing to her (Ukraine lady) for over 6 months longer...

You will not find anybody 'perfect'.... and I can say my lady is not perfect... but I love her and accept her 'flaws'... could I have held out for someone younger and more beautiful... probably... would I be any happier.... probably not...


SOOO, look at them like you would a woman at home...

But also don't 'settle' if you see things going wrong... I read a number of posts like this...

Good luck...


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
Not trying to tell you how to do things.... but just my two cents....

This process can appear to be a candy store... look at all the beautiful women that are interested in ME!! But, these are real women (well, the non scammers ones are).... and they do have 'feelings'.... I can tell you that my lady STILL has some issue on me visiting the lady from the Ukraine before visiting her... and I had been writing to her (Ukraine lady) for over 6 months longer...

You will not find anybody 'perfect'.... and I can say my lady is not perfect... but I love her and accept her 'flaws'... could I have held out for someone younger and more beautiful... probably... would I be any happier.... probably not...


SOOO, look at them like you would a woman at home...

But also don't 'settle' if you see things going wrong... I read a number of posts like this...

Good luck...


I am giving priority right now to my meeting Ms Sumy this summer. I am talking with Ms Vinitsa also, but I have plans set for August meeting Ms Sumy in Kiev. IF by some chance it doesn't work out with Ms Sumy I possibly could see what happens with Ms Vinitsa a few months later.

I just started talking on the phone with Ms Vinitsa. So this is very new and right now it's just phone conversation. Will I go to visit her? Very possible, depending on what happens in August.


Posted by: clark

RP,

I know I stated I wouldn't post on this thread again but, seeing how it has moved from your last women to now, I will. Texas Proud's advice is pretty sound. There is some other advice throughout this forum that is solid as well. That is "How come you continue to do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result?".

One constant I've noticed with you is, you keep another lady on the "back burner" while visiting one. This kind of says about you, that you are not willing to commit. I don't mean fully commit to a marriage but, commit to developing a relationship. From your history you appear to be a write few visit one kind of guy. Normally this might not be a bad idea but with your history from the last two should you maybe consider a different approach?

If I could offer some advice it would be, if you REALLY like this Sumy lady, focus on her and her alone until you have decided that she isn't what you seek, before starting with another.

I say this because much of what you experienced with the last lady could have been avoided before even your first trip to her and certainly before the second one.

Forget Vinnitsa and learn about Sumy. All those questions you had about the Odessa lady could easily be answered on the Sumy lady BEFORE you travel to see her. If, you develop a serious communication and relationship with her first.

If you choose to go the same route as with the previous lady I honestly believe you'd be better off waiting until you got there then meeting 10-15 in the same city through an agency. There is success in WOVO but perhaps it's a different approach than you have been making.
FWIW


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
RP,

I know I stated I wouldn't post on this thread again but, seeing how it has moved from your last women to now, I will. Texas Proud's advice is pretty sound. There is some other advice throughout this forum that is solid as well. That is "How come you continue to do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result?".

One constant I've noticed with you is, you keep another lady on the "back burner" while visiting one. This kind of says about you, that you are not willing to commit. I don't mean fully commit to a marriage but, commit to developing a relationship. From your history you appear to be a write few visit one kind of guy. Normally this might not be a bad idea but with your history from the last two should you maybe consider a different approach?

If I could offer some advice it would be, if you REALLY like this Sumy lady, focus on her and her alone until you have decided that she isn't what you seek, before starting with another.

I say this because much of what you experienced with the last lady could have been avoided before even your first trip to her and certainly before the second one.

Forget Vinnitsa and learn about Sumy. All those questions you had about the Odessa lady could easily be answered on the Sumy lady BEFORE you travel to see her. If, you develop a serious communication and relationship with her first.

If you choose to go the same route as with the previous lady I honestly believe you'd be better off waiting until you got there then meeting 10-15 in the same city through an agency. There is success in WOVO but perhaps it's a different approach than you have been making.
FWIW



Sorry Clark but I have to totally disagree with you. I am totally into the Sumy women and I am giving her all of my attention. But yes at the same time as of yesterday I have talked with the Vinitsa women. Just because I am talking with the Vinitsa women doesn't mean I am not giving my all to Ms Sumy. I have a great feeling about her & when I see her this summer it will tell alot.

I am giving Ms Sumy 100% attention. I call her every other day and we send sms messages to each other everyday.

The back burner thing you are talking about is only happening because when I started writing to a few there was one or two women that I still thought were very nice. And I see absolutely nothing wrong talking with any of them to see what they are about.

I personally don't see any thing wrong with me going to see Ms Sumy in the summer & still having communication with another women. My communication with Ms Vinitsa right now is only phone talk and we have not made any plans on a meeting.

If things go good with Ms Sumy , of course I will totally commit to MS Sumy. I love talking and writing to her. I really think she is going to be wonderful. But time will tell.

If things don't go so well in person with Ms Sumy I can still plan a meeting with Ms Vinitsa to see her around October or November.

But I do see your point Clark. It's just that I think what I am doing is perfectly OK. I promised Ms Sumy that I am coming to see her and that is what I am doing. The way I see it is this, if I go to see Ms Sumy and by chance it turns out to be a no chemistry no go situation I would not like the idea of totally blowing off a potential nice women in Vinitsa when right now there is good conversation and phone talking. So right now as far as Ms Vinitsa goes, it is only conversations on the phone.

I see your point Clark, but I really see nothing wrong in how I am doing this. I have met 3 women so far in total since I have been doing this international dating thing. The 1st one was a GTG & I got rid of her, the 2nd one I had a K1 with and we were together for one year and why she did not want to go all the way & come here to be with me , I will never know the reason why. The 3rd is the Odessa girl who turned out to be not so good also.

I don't regret any of my trips or the women I went to see. It has all been great experiences to do these trips to see if we were good or each other.

Believe me Clark, this is not a game for me. I am looking for the real thing here. I am looking for a good match for myself and I want to have kids with a women that I feel I will have a lifetime of happiness with. I am not looking for a part time women here.

That is why I have been taking these trips there.

I'm sorry if my approach doesn't look good in your eyes. I feel good about it and I will continue to do it like I have been doing. The only thing that changes is the women I go to see. Ms Sumy will be women number 4 and I really hope she is the last. If not , than maybe Ms Vinitsa is.

No harm being done here. It's called Dating or should I say International Dating.


Posted by: clark

RP

I'm not denigrating your methods. It really isn't my intent to sound like I throwing shytballs at your achievement or lack of it. I'm really not. My only dog in this hunt is that for me, I offer you some sound advice. Whether you take it or not isn't my concern. Giving and receiving sound advice is the reason we all come here, isn't it? I didn't mean to infer that there is something "wrong" with how you've been approaching this. I'm sure this way works for some but, it hasn't worked for you and still you continue the same way. I just caution you to step back to see the forest and the trees.

I've spoken to guys that have been in this pursuit 10 years and longer. They've all made many trips and enjoyed them all and yet they are still looking. That indicates they are for the most part in it for the hunt instead of the catch. If they are enjoying just the hunt, thats fine. If it's the catch, thats fine as well. Those in the hunt, one common thing they all seem to have in common is they time and time again set themselves up for failure. Consciously or subconsciously doesn't really matter, the end result is the same.


Posted by: goforit

Maybe I have missed some stuff, but it looks to me like RP has been honing and refining his approach (for the better in my opinion) with each new experience and, all in all, taken advice here quite well, even when things have gotten a little testy.


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
RP

I'm not denigrating your methods. It really isn't my intent to sound like I throwing shytballs at your achievement or lack of it. I'm really not. My only dog in this hunt is that for me, I offer you some sound advice. Whether you take it or not isn't my concern. Giving and receiving sound advice is the reason we all come here, isn't it? I didn't mean to infer that there is something "wrong" with how you've been approaching this. I'm sure this way works for some but, it hasn't worked for you and still you continue the sam