What if Ukraine...? - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

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What if Ukraine...?
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Posted by: AkMike

What if Ukraine joins the EU ?
What changes might be in the future for travel? What about the duration of the stays? I don't know what it is with the new EU as far as the rules for travelers or immigrants. Can someone from France move to Germany with out problems or paperwork?
Will I be able (as a US citizen) be able to stay for a year without problems with the folks at immigration and customs?
Eventually we'd like to semi-retire in Ukraine. Reverse snowbirds! But we both like the winters here and spending time at our 'new' dacha. The old one burned down this summer in a forrest fire.
I'm trying to look down the road a bit, rubbing the crystal ball and forcasting the future.

Posted by: Eryk

>>What if Ukraine joins the EU ?
>>What changes might be in the future for travel? What about the duration >>of the stays? I don't know what it is with the new EU as far as the rules >>for travelers or immigrants. Can someone from France move to Germany >>with out problems or paperwork?

Any EU citizen can travel to (and indefinitely reside within) any other EU country at will. This is a matter of 'right', not 'privilege'.

Some existing member states place temporary restrictions on some new member states in respect of employment rights and eligibility for publically funded healthcare etc. for a few years, but that doesn't change the fundamental travel and residency rights.

Since France and Germany are both members of long standing there are no restrictions at all. In fact since both are Schengen zone members there isn't even a real 'border' (i.e. no customs control etc.) - it is just a line on a map.

>>Will I be able (as a US citizen) be able to stay for a year without problems >>with the folks at immigration and customs?

Unless the USA joins the EU (LOL

) the subject of travel and residency rights for Americans would remain a matter for the national government. The EU does not have competence in matters of foreign relations with non-member states except in a few defined areas such as trade negotiations.

>>Eventually we'd like to semi-retire in Ukraine. Reverse snowbirds! But we >>both like the winters here and spending time at our 'new' dacha. The old >>one burned down this summer in a forrest fire.

That can be done now. FSU countries are not quite as hypocritical about 'illegal immigrants' as most western countries

Eryk

Posted by: AkMike

Thank you for your thoughts about this Eryk! I appreciate it.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

I was in Bulgaria last August and I still had to register my passport. They are in the EU so I didn't need a visa but my fiancee from Moldova did.

I'm sure if you wanted to work or live there indefinitly, you would need to file some sort of paperwork for tax and residency purposes.

Posted by: Jutman

Well

Once in the future, EU wil with high proberbilty be with UA, but not for 2 decades.

If you bring capital, I think most people would be welcomed in both RU and UA.
Russia is doing adds to get russians home and with the prediction of being 40 million less citizen in 2050.

Posted by: Seaview

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jutman

Well

Once in the future, EU wil with high proberbilty be with UA, but not for 2 decades.

If you bring capital, I think most people would be welcomed in both RU and UA.
Russia is doing adds to get russians home and with the prediction of being 40 million less citizen in 2050.

We are second in immigration after the US. Millions of people from former FSU, China, Asia enter Russia every year. So there won't be less people in 2050, but there definitely will be less Russians

Posted by: blucatz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaview

We are second in immigration after the US. Millions of people from former FSU, China, Asia enter Russia every year. So there won't be less people in 2050, but there definitely will be less Russians

Thats interesting, you have people moving into your country, but your own natural citizens are moving out. Maybe your citizens know something the immigrants don't know.

Posted by: Seaview

Quote:

Originally Posted by blucatz

Thats interesting, you have people moving into your country, but your own natural citizens are moving out. Maybe your citizens know something the immigrants don't know.

We are not moving out, we die.

Our population decreases because people's life expectancy is just 58 years for men and 70 for women (average figures) and number of deaths exceeds number of births.

If it were not for immigrants the situation would have been even worse.

Posted by: Jutman

Russia is changing, so will thoose numbers.

My prediction is that with the new wealth in Russia, it will become trendy to get several kids. Its shows your have resources.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaview

We are not moving out, we die.

Seaview,
I am interested in your views on the causes for the low life expectancy. What could the government do in your view to improve that situation?

One of the big things I noticed is the lack of safety systems in the workplace. e.g. men working at heights. Death in the workplace seems to me to be a big contributor in the early death of many men.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jutman

Russia is changing, so will thoose numbers.

My prediction is that with the new wealth in Russia, it will become trendy to get several kids. Its shows your have resources.

That is not the reflection of the western experience. Why should it be so in Russia?

Posted by: Buckeye5704

I'm thinking of doing the same as Mike here. A friend of mine told me yesterday, "You should just go live there for a couple years" and when I recovered from the shock of how wise this guy is I said "why not?" I'm retired already, work as a school bus driver for fun money (and love it, btw) and when I sell my house and finalize the big D I have no ties to keep here, so why not indeed.

I'll be pouring over all the "things to do" lists here but any tips would be helpfull. I'm getting the passport going tomorrow. How long can a "tourist" stay in Ukraine anyway?

Thanks,
Tim

Posted by: BluesTraveler

Buckeye: if you are really thinking about moving there you might want to think about getting a job over there. If you got your certification to teach English you should be able to find a regular job. And you wouldn't be taking the job for the money, so to speak, but to help immerse yourself into the culture.

Posted by: AkMike

I think that before you pack up the house you should visit there and rent an apt. for a couple of months and see if it's for you. You'll see what it means when Dorthy said," I've got a feeling that we're not in Kansas any more Toto".
It's all the same but different.

Without a visa you can stay 180 days out of the year. With a business visa you need to step out of the country to get fresh entry stamps in your passport once every 3 or 6 months. I forget the current rules.

Posted by: Buckeye5704

Thanks guys,

I've looking at the cost of living over there that has been posted and it looks like I can do it with my pension alone with plenty to spare. Don't need a job for money. Would it be a requiremnet on their side of the ball?

I'll definately use the "lets see how it works out" mode before I commit to it long term. I can cook, maybe they need help at the consulate?

Tim

Posted by: Pin Boy

consider the status of your health. the FSU is not a place where you want to be experience a serious illness.

pb

Posted by: AkMike

Bucky,
Tanya was working as a Tamada, (party organizer, master of ceremony type of deal) her own creations and was lower middle class in their economy. She was getting by on $80-100 USD a month. She owned her own apt and was leeping her head above water.
This will not hold true in the larger citys. Kiev is many times more spendy. And inflation has raised prices alot in 3 +years. But I feel confidant I could get by with $500 if I were careful.

Posted by: Buckeye5704

Thanks Mike,

I had about $1000 - $1500 in mind. That should let me live in a decent place. If I'm close to the bus (or tram) lines I can get around fine. Just have to get the language part together and I should have plenty of help with that from a very sweet private tutor when I arrive.

Yeh, DON'T GET SICK is always at the top of my list. Fortunately her parents were both Docs and mum lives with her now.

Unless something comes along to really burst the bubble I'm thinking it's doable at least for the summer.

Tim

Posted by: AkMike

Medical is very cheap! I had some dental done there and the equipment I saw was very similar to ours from the 60's and 70's. Root Canal and crown for less than $100.
My DIL just had part of her lung removed, (birth defect) +1 month of hopspital= $3500
Keep in mind that these aren't tourist prices. Your lady will have to do all the talking for you to get good prices

Posted by: blucatz

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkMike

Medical is very cheap! I had some dental done there and the equipment I saw was very similar to ours from the 60's and 70's. Root Canal and crown for less than $100.
My DIL just had part of her lung removed, (birth defect) +1 month of hopspital= $3500
Keep in mind that these aren't tourist prices. Your lady will have to do all the talking for you to get good prices

$3500 for all that? It cost me $2000 just for the ambulance ride to the hospital for my heart attack.

Posted by: AkMike

Yah, I'm tempted to head over seas for getting a splinter out of my finger!
I am going to get my full physical/ dental and such this trip. I hate the medical prices here.
I had an ER visit a couple of years ago. The Dr was with me for 15 minutes tops. I got nailed over $600 for his time and $450 for the room. That seems a tad overkill.
Years ago I was having a crown done here. The dentist ground a hole in the gold as he was fitting it. I had to take it across town to get it fixed, when I got ready to pay the bill I deducted $300 for my time to haul it to get repaired. They squeeled but I told them I was in the transportation business and they contracted verbally with me to move it around for them.

Hey, Fair is fair!

Posted by: blucatz

Overkill is an understatement, I am arguing over that ambulance ride, especially since the first ride only cost $450, they can't tell me what they did that was so special to warrant the drastic increase in price over the first ride. I think a court date is in order cause insurance isn't paying that crazy price either. Maybe they can explain it to the judge about the price increase cause I don't understand it.

Posted by: Pin Boy

i guess some of you, unfortunately as independent contractors, do not have adequate or any medical insurance and that's a shame in a country like this. i joke, only half heartedly, that i wouldn't go out to get the mail without health insurance. i thank god i'm one of the lucky ones that i have employer paid insurance.

pb

Posted by: blucatz

Oh, I have health insurance, but even they said that the charges were way too high and would only pay a small percentage of it, for what they called "normal costs".

Posted by: Pin Boy

i guess it also depends whether you are in an HMO or a traditional blue cross/blue shield type of plan. I'm fine with an HMO as a quite healthy person. I did have a shoulder operation two years ago to repair a torn rotator cuff. ended up having to stay overnight, the whole nine yards and i paid zilch. hence my contention i would be afraid to stick my nose out the door without health insurance.

it also got me to thinking...what if i had that type of sports injury in the FSU, are there many orthopedic docs for common folk, not elite olympic team athletes, to get that type of operation. i'm sure if i lived 100 years ago, i'd be sh@t out of luck. but would a regular joe in the FSU have that option available today and would it be affordable? if i didn't have health insurance, i guess i could live with the restricted mobility, although it would make many types of exercise out. i could not lift my arm much higher than 90 degrees. i would have gone crazy if i could not do the physical activities i do regularly. ??????

i never saw the bill, or i should say looked at it closely, but i'd guess it had to be in the $5,000 range with the surgeon, anastethia, hospital stay, medication, bandages, etc...

pb

Posted by: blucatz

I bet it was alot more that 5k, that was probably just the surgeons bill.

Posted by: AkMike

Yeah I bet it was more like 25K out the door.

Posted by: Pin Boy

you guys are probably right, i probably low balled it. plus throw in 8 weeks of physical therapy 3 x's a week.

Posted by: Spakoyna

PB, I have Blue-Cross Blue Shield. I am sure it is true of any insurance though. Insurance covers reasonable customary charges. If the charges are above what they deem reasonable they will not pay.

I am gonna say your bills were higher than that! I broke my hip in a freak accident almost 20 years ago. Was in the hospital for 2 weeks. Just my hospital bill was 30K! Then there was the surgeon, anasthesiologist, etc.

Now to back up my 1st statement. I got a bill from the surgeon for around 2 K. The bill was for an assistant surgeon. WTF! I couldn't see how someone could bolt my pelvis back together by them self! I called Blue Cross to see what was going on. Ah HAH! The Dr. was trying to rip me off! He had a contract with BC at agreed upon prices for each procedure. 1 phonecall and that bill was history!