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People....think twice!
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Posted by: kimchik

Hello everyone...great site, lot's of usefull discussions and info. I'm sure this will be helpful for me and I hope to provide some usefull info myself.

What amazed me are the Russian women stories, thought that's something outdated and men don't fall for that anymore.
I am from Holland myself but live here in SPB for a while already, and have seen different parts of Russia, and I can tell you that it is not like it used to be. Women are not desperately looking for foreign men to escape the country. In general they have a good live here. I am sure there are genuine honest ladies between them, but come on...don't be so naive! Don't believe that the like fotomodel looking girls want something from men on the other side of the world, they can get a man with money here to, and believe me, there is money enough. The moral of people here is different than in Europe, and probably the states too. Cheating and lying are more accepted and normal than i'm used to, quite shocking it was for me in the beginning, but you get used to it. Most people will do what they can to get better themselves, and it is even like a victory if they can do this with foreigners!
Don't get me wrong, I love it here, and love Russians, but they take advantage of you if you give them a chance!

Posted by: blucatz

Seems like its the same no matter where you go in this world, its just down with a different language.

Posted by: JamesB

I agree, there are people all over that take advantage .Not just Russia.!

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimchik

Hello everyone...great site, lot's of usefull discussions and info. I'm sure this will be helpful for me and I hope to provide some usefull info myself.

What amazed me are the Russian women stories, thought that's something outdated and men don't fall for that anymore.
I am from Holland myself but live here in SPB for a while already, and have seen different parts of Russia, and I can tell you that it is not like it used to be. Women are not desperately looking for foreign men to escape the country. In general they have a good live here. I am sure there are genuine honest ladies between them, but come on...don't be so naive! Don't believe that the like fotomodel looking girls want something from men on the other side of the world, they can get a man with money here to, and believe me, there is money enough. The moral of people here is different than in Europe, and probably the states too. Cheating and lying are more accepted and normal than i'm used to, quite shocking it was for me in the beginning, but you get used to it. Most people will do what they can to get better themselves, and it is even like a victory if they can do this with foreigners!
Don't get me wrong, I love it here, and love Russians, but they take advantage of you if you give them a chance!

I have a few thoughts on this:

1. "Women are not desperately looking for foreign men to escape the country" - Maybe not in Saint Petersburg, Moscow, or other large cities, but in smaller cities and other countries of the former Soviet Union there are many girls looking for love with a foreign man. In these places women still out number men and because of this the men know they can have many "girlfriends" at 1 time. A good russina woman would stand for this.

2. "Cheating" - By cheating I guess you mean scamming. Yes this is true and as James says, it is everywhere and not more prevelent in Russia.

3. "Lying" - Yes all the lying really puzzled me. I found out that Russians do not admit they were wrong or do not know an answer ... so they make something up ... a lie! When I first met my fiancee, she was amazed at how many times I said, "I don't know". She now accepts this as being honest and appreciates it.

Just my thoughts and opinions ... you are entitled to have yours ... which I will respect.

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

I have a few thoughts on this:

3. "Lying" - Yes all the lying really puzzled me. I found out that Russians do not admit they were wrong or do not know an answer ... so they make something up ... a lie! When I first met my fiancee, she was amazed at how many times I said, "I don't know". She now accepts this as being honest and appreciates it.

Just my thoughts and opinions ... you are entitled to have yours ... which I will respect.

Very interesting GTR, my former Russian GF also didn't like it when I said "I don't know"

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Yes Russian are very proud people. The problem is people like doctors give bad advice or make a wrong diagnosis but they will never admit it and the patient suffers. I could live in the FSU except for the doctors and medical practices.

Posted by: Pin Boy

i tend to agree with kimchik that people in the FSU seems to lie and cheat more casually than westerners.

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pin Boy

i tend to agree with kimchik that people in the FSU seems to lie and cheat more casually than westerners.

I wonder if this is a leftover from Communism? The people could get used to situations in which reality was totally disconnected from what they were told.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

Here are two things i have been told...
1. There is no Russian word that correctly translates "initiative".

2. The words for "guilt" and "responsibility" are the same. Hence why Russians don't like to own up to being responsible for things.

Since I do not speak the language I do not know how correct they are.

Posted by: sidney

Quote:

The words for "guilt" and "responsibility" are the same. Hence why Russians don't like to own up to being responsible for things.

My wife says not the same word. Her russian is better then mine so I couldn't have even guessed at that one.
Sid

Posted by: kimchik

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebird

I wonder if this is a leftover from Communism? The people could get used to situations in which reality was totally disconnected from what they were told.

YES!! Very true...people are brought up in a world made of lies. It is not always deliberately lying, but making for themselves a truth which is convenient, and this truth I think they believe themselves! I think they can fool the best lie detectors....Also a problem sometimes is, they believe the most suitable information, everybody knows the limited information people got in the communism, but nowadays lots of people still believe this because it sounds the best. For example: I heard here in Russia for the first time that Russia on its own, liberated the whole world in the 2nd WW. They still celebrate that and the whole world should they say. Another thing is that Russians think top quality Russian products are spread all over the world, that everybody wears Russian fashion, and buy's Russian products in the supermarkets. After telling them that besides maybe the caviar, I never saw any Russian products, and that even the Vodka in Holland comes from America, or Finland, I didn't make myself very popular, "than I never looked good" they said, insulted as they were. Famous scientists or artists are on tv always traced back until they find some connection with Russia, a great-great grandfather who's cousin was married with a half-Russian, can be enough for people here to be proud of "their" scientist or artist. Russians are proud to be Russians in an extreme way, it's sometimes difficult for me not to start the discussion, I know I'll lose it anyway. I think ( am not sure, my wife is Austrian) that in a relation this can be a problem, or at least something you should not try to change, but accept.

Posted by: Subtitle-D

'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'

Remember that it is easy to tell when we are being lied to, but what's not so easy to tell is when we ourselves are lying, because we automatically forget about that. Just think about it and you realise that you do it all the time - nobody is exempt - apart perhaps from Scottish people who are renowned for their honesty and directness (:->) (and hence used in adverts often).

Just remember Russia is not a former NAZI regime, but a communist one, and ideologically this puts people, ie. 'the workers', first. They must look incredulously at our 'regime' in the West, as much as admire it for its freedoms and comparative wealth.

Subtitled.

Posted by: disculmawsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimchik

I think what you say here generally true of older generation (40+) and individuals living outside the big centers, especially Moscow and St. Petersburg. I met a woman from upper intellectual class in Ukraine, who parroted similar words. She went on to doubt that American scholarship on Russia worth anything, Russians studied American history and that everything that was great in the world came from Russia (she was a Russian, so anything Ukrainian was second rate, but above anything Western). On the other hand, younger Russians seem very interested in the West and are willing to concede that the US and the West had a hand in the victory over Nazism and are very interested in the achievements and having relations with West. For example, one of my friends visited Vietnam on her vacation and inisted on calling Ho Chi Minh City, "Saigon". I realized that she was trying to polite to me as an American. In addition, several of female friends both Moscow and St. Petersburg try often as possible to visit Western Europe so they can buy "good quality" (their description) merchandise(they are in late 20s and early 30s).
The chief reason it seems to me that Russians tend to boast is that they don't feel like they are equals with the West and try to compensate by boasting about their acheivements. Russians have much to proud of in their history and they don't often hear that Westerners that Russia has made important contributions to world civilization. Ironically, when I would tell Russians how much I liked the Metro in Moscow, riding trains and way the cities were planned - I like the green space and abundant public parks they seemed unsure of how to deal with the praise. Or when I congratulated my friends on the anniversity of Spunik. Russians need this constant reinforcement that they are important players and are respected members of international community. While I may appear "soft" on Russia, like George Kennan I believe one needs to make them accountable for their actions, but not demonize them either as people or a government.
Another example of Russian pride is how individuals felt about their city. One of the mosting experiences is being questioned by an individual whether I like Moscow or St. Petersburg better - uniformly the correct answer was the town where the person lived. I would image if I were visiting some very small hamlet in Siberia and ask whether I liked the hamlet or Moscow better, the correct answer would that hamlet not Moscow.

Posted by: TheWongs

It's strange, but when I read a topic like this, I always think about my ex. If I said "I don't know", she would reply with "You don't know? What do you know? Do you know anything"? I found this quite offensive at times, depending on her tone of voice at the time. If we had an argument, she was never wrong! I'm not talking about the usual "woman" thing here. I mean she was never wrong, even when it was shown to her, or proved, without a doubt!

It all makes more sense now and anyone thinking of setting out in this minefield... I mean journey, should take notes from the people who have been there, done that and bought the T-shirt. I sometimes wish I'd read more and taken more advice, but then... I wouldn't be where I am now if I'd done that.

Posted by: Pin Boy

a woman in ukraine told me last summer that they were taught in school that lenin invented the lightbulb!!!

pb

Posted by: EasyTarget

Of course Lenin invented the light bulb, and in his spare time he worked on the telephone, internal combustion engine, airplanes, and sputnik! He was a very clever man.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Yes and Al Gore invented the Internet and discovered Global Warming!!!

Posted by: sidney

Quote:

Yes and Al Gore invented the Internet and discovered Global Warming!!!

This was enough to get my wife to want to vote for him years ago. Too bad she's not a citizen and can't. I keep reminding her of this fact when she gets on her hilliary horse.
Sid

Posted by: GoingToRussia

I have a bridge for sale ... maybe she wants to buy it?

Posted by: disculmawsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

Yes and Al Gore invented the Internet and discovered Global Warming!!!

GTR - you are wrong about the Internet. The Internet, the Web and blogging were all invented by a Russian (and I have the article to prove it).

Posted by: kimchik

Quote:

Originally Posted by disculmawsu

GTR - you are wrong about the Internet. The Internet, the Web and blogging were all invented by a Russian (and I have the article to prove it).

Yeah...I bet it's a Russian article....
Also Goolgle is Russian I heard, but I have an article which proves it isn't!
During a tour on the Aurora here, a navy guy told me that a Russian named Ericsson, already invented the mobile phone in the 20's, but he was not allowed by the government to develop it further...
Russia made amazing discoveries for the development of our todays world, but Internet????

Posted by: AkMike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pin Boy

a woman in ukraine told me last summer that they were taught in school that lenin invented the lightbulb!!!

pb

You are joking... aren't you PB???

Tataysik about fell out of her chair when I read this.. Is there a chance that woman in Ukraine was jerking your chain ????

Posted by: EasyTarget

Google was founded by a Russian "Sergey Brin" come on with a name like Sergey he must be Russian.

Larry Page, he really didn't do much he just got Sergey vodka.

Posted by: kimchik

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

Google was founded by a Russian "Sergey Brin" come on with a name like Sergey he must be Russian.

Larry Page, he really didn't do much he just got Sergey vodka.

S**t...I guess you're right!
But it was Philips in Holland who invented the compact disc and DVD!!!

Posted by: TheWongs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pin Boy

a woman in ukraine told me last summer that they were taught in school that lenin invented the lightbulb!!!

pb

And he didn't?

Elvis Presley invented chocolate.

Posted by: Pin Boy

no mike, she was serious! and of course she doesn't believe it now ( i think).

Posted by: TheWongs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pin Boy

no mike, she was serious! and of course she doesn't believe it now ( i think).

I have no doubt she was serious. I can't remember the details now, but there was a few things Larisa told me that I had to correct her on. It's all about what they were taught. It took some serious convincing to make her believe me!

Posted by: TheWongs

Who invented the internet? I found this interesting.

"No one person invented the Internet as we know it today. However, certain major figures contributed major breakthroughs:

Leonard Kleinrock was the first to publish a paper about the idea of packet switching, which is essential to the Internet. He did so in 1961. Packet switching is the idea that packets of data can be "routed" from one place to another based on address information carried in the data, much like the address on a letter. Packet switching replaces the older concept of "circuit switching," in which an actual electrical circuit is established all the way from the source to the destination. Circuit switching was the idea behind traditional telephone exchanges.

J.C.R. Licklider was the first to describe an Internet-like worldwide network of computers, in 1962. He called it the "Galactic Network."
Larry G. Roberts created the first functioning long-distance computer networks in 1965 and designed the Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET), the seed from which the modern Internet grew, in 1966.

Bob Kahn and Vint Cerf invented the Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) which moves data on the modern Internet, in 1972 and 1973. If any two people "invented the Internet," it was Kahn and Cerf - but they have publicly stated that "no one person or group of people" invented the Internet.

Radia Perlman invented the spanning tree algorithm in the 1980s. Her spanning tree algorithm allows efficient bridging between separate networks. Without a good bridging solution, large-scale networks like the Internet would be impractical".

Posted by: Subtitle-D

Quote:

Originally Posted by disculmawsu

One of the mosting experiences is being questioned by an individual whether I like Moscow or St. Petersburg better - uniformly the correct answer was the town where the person lived. I would image if I were visiting some very small hamlet in Siberia and ask whether I liked the hamlet or Moscow better, the correct answer would that hamlet not Moscow.

I recall meeting a woman from Lithuania once here in my home town at a niteclub, and on asking if she was Polish (which I assumed as there are so many Polish people here now), she was aghast and very emphatic to correct me that she was Lithuanian. Later in the conversation on mentioning Russia, she expressed less than enthusiastic terms regarding them too, describing their former 'occupation' of her country. I think people are proud of their own country or town or city first.

Posted by: stevo

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimchik

Also Goolgle is Russian I heard, but I have an article which proves it isn't!

Definitely Russian. He also wrote "Dead Souls".

Posted by: disculmawsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWongs

Who invented the internet? I found this interesting.

Kleinrock actually did not write the original paper on packet switching. He made contributions to queuing theory, which has many applications including packet switching.
The two people who invented the ideas of packet switching and routing are Paul Baran of RAND and Donald Davis of British Postal Service are considered "inventors" of packet switching - ironically (at least for us Americans) the term "packet switching" is Davis' term for the chunks of data being passed from network to networks.
Bob Metacalf should be menitioned because he invented Carrier Sensing Multiple Access with Collusion Detection (CSMA/CD - IEEE 802.3) which is now marketed under name Ethernet (which Metacalf inveneted at Xerox PARC, but Xerox failured to market and allowed Metacalf develop on his own and which made him a millionaire).
The article I have about Russian inventing was from the "news" website Mosnews (which is now shutdown) and was also reported by Moscow Times. I don't believe for a minute that Count Olegsky (spelling is not correct) invented the Internet.
The APRANet the percusor of the Internet went online on Labor Day 1969.
As the Lenin inventing the lightbulb, I believe this story has been around since the 1980s. Hendick Smith I believe reported this story in his book The Russians was originally published in 1980.

Posted by: Subtitle-D

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWongs

Radia Perlman invented the spanning tree algorithm in the 1980s. Her spanning tree algorithm allows efficient bridging between separate networks. Without a good bridging solution, large-scale networks like the Internet would be impractical".

Er, this is not strictly correct. What makes the internet possible are Routing Protocols, such as Open Shortest Path First , or Enhanced Interior Gateway Routing Protocol, or Routing Information Protocol. Here you would be looking at Djikstra's Shortest Path First algorthm, for example. Radi Perlman's algorithm was designed for short range Local Area Networks only, which in practical terms range for up to 100m, only extending that in fibre-optic based technologies, but by no means approaching the scale of internet.

Routing protocols run on routers, whereas Spanning Tree Algorithm runs on network switches, which handle only Local Networks.

Spanning Tree Algorithm was invented to allow redundant switched networks, ie, if one switch goes down the network can continue to function by selecting another path. This is achieved by blocking the multiple paths that could result in 'loops' and hence network congestion. Routing protocols also allow redundancy, but do so by sharing information amongst routers in the network to build up a picture of the network topology and the possible paths through it.

The central idea of an internet as devised by ARPA was decentralisation, so that if one military establishment was bombed, the remaining ones could continue to communicate via the packet switched network. Packet switching is made possible by routers, (aka 'Intermediate Systems'). With circuit switching, the switching must be performed at a central location, in the same way that a telephone exchange works.

Posted by: Chrismc

This is all as clear as mud guys, come on you are not telling me you guys get off on this crap

give me a sexy RW anyday

Posted by: EasyTarget

I think the point they are trying to make is that Stalin invented the router, switch, internet, fiber optics, and the pony express.

Posted by: EasyTarget

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWongs

Elvis Presley invented chocolate.

I thought it was peanut butter and banana fried sandwhiches

Posted by: TheWongs

Jeez! Too many nerds here for me! I only copied what I found when I typed "who invented the internet" into Google.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

It is much simpler to believe Al Gore invented the internet.

The ARPNET story is the one I heard. It was first put into service by the US government as a defense mechanisium. If we were nucked, we would have a way to comunicate.

Posted by: AkMike

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

It is much simpler to believe Al Gore invented the internet.

You mean he didn't?

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWongs

If we had an argument, she was never wrong! I'm not talking about the usual "woman" thing here. I mean she was never wrong, even when it was shown to her, or proved, without a doubt!

Is that wrong or Wong?

Sorry couldn't help myself!

Posted by: TheWongs

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Is that wrong or Wong?

Sorry couldn't help myself!

There's one in every crowd!

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWongs

There's one in every crowd!

And aren't you extremely fortunate it's me. You could have a crazy man do it instead

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

I2. "Cheating" - By cheating I guess you mean scamming. Yes this is true and as James says, it is everywhere and not more prevelent in Russia.

Cheating in Russia generally does not mean scamming, escpecially if you are talking about scamming over the Internet. It is plain old cheating, when you have a wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend and you also have a lover or even lovers. Indeed in Russia it is very prevalent and socially acceptable.. For the most part, anyway...

Posted by: Seaview

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pin Boy

a woman in ukraine told me last summer that they were taught in school that lenin invented the lightbulb!!!

pb

"Lenin's lightbulb" was a popular notion in Russian textbooks in the Soviet times. It has nothing to do with invention of lightbulbs and electricity.

It is connected with GOELRO (��) national elictrification plan of the Soviet Government in the beginning of the twentieth century. Lenin was the author of the plan. That's why in 1920 -1930 lightbulbs in Russian villages were called "Lenin's light bulbs".

Has your Ukrainian woman ever attended school?

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pin Boy

a woman in ukraine told me last summer that they were taught in school that lenin invented the lightbulb!!!

pb

She, probably, was not a very good student.

We were never taught that he ivented it. We were taught that he and the soviet regime made electricity available to the regular people.

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaview

Exactly! Thanks to Seaview for clearing it up.

I, frankly, don't remember these particularities anymore.

Posted by: Seaview

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlove

Exactly! Thanks to Seaview for clearing it up.

I, frankly, don't remember these particularities anymore.

You are welcome

Posted by: Subtitle-D

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWongs

Jeez! Too many nerds here for me! I only copied what I found when I typed "who invented the internet" into Google.

Sorry for correcting you, TheWongs! However I was just thinking the Radi Perlman you mentioned in your post may be Russian or of Russian decent as the name 'Perleman' is Russian (I think?). So she may qualify as a genuine Russian inventor of some importance. (Her invention though strictly speaking is not the main underlying internet technology, but nonetheless is an integral part of it - and pretty clever at any rate!)

Posted by: TheWongs

It's all to clever for me.

I only used to fix computers, networks and internet stuff and didn't care who invented it.

All I knew about the history of the internet, is that it was started as a military thing, then someone thought it would be a great idea for the public to be able to share information. And.... Here we are, sharing information! You gotta love it!