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Changes to Russian Multi Entry Business Visa rules
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Posted by: deccie

As posted on another forum.

The one that has me worried is the requirement for people to apply for this from "their native country". That's a little hard for me to do right now!

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2007/10/22/004.html

Note the requirement for the maximum of a 90 day stay followed by leaving the country for a similar period.

Posted by: Eryk

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

As posted on another forum.

The one that has me worried is the requirement for people to apply for this from "their native country". That's a little hard for me to do right now!

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2007/10/22/004.html

Note the requirement for the maximum of a 90 day stay followed by leaving the country for a similar period.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stori.../10/23/014.html

Eryk

Posted by: EasyTarget

Looks like they are trying to squeeze out foreigners working in Russia. Trying to create jobs for the local citizens. Or is it a scheme to try and raise some extra money through visa program?

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eryk

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stori.../10/23/014.html

Eryk

There are inconsistencies here..
Looks like people have already been caught by this.

http://www.waytorussia.net/TalkLoun...p?p=75018#75018

Posted by: deccie

I'm applying for a ME Business visa at the moment so I will post the results.

Right now I'm waiting for my invitation letter.

Posted by: kimchik

The new rules make it impossible for people to come here and work for a year on there business visa. But that was illegal anyway, that's just the point here...it's nor allowed to work on a business visa, if you work in Russia, than you should apply for a working permission and a working visa. If you have this, you can just work for a whole year without having to leave the country. It's also not a money raising scam, because with the new rules, visas became cheaper. And it is no problem to apply for a business visa from whatever country you prefer.

Posted by: deccie

That's not true.
Apparently Helsinki for example is refusing ALL business visa applications from American citizens right now.

While it does prevent people from working it also prevents people from living with their wives/girlfriends too.

Posted by: kimchik

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

That's not true.
Apparently Helsinki for example is refusing ALL business visa applications from American citizens right now.

While it does prevent people from working it also prevents people from living with their wives/girlfriends too.

According to the new rules, visas are given out in order of reprocity. I'm not exactly sure in what level that affects Americans, I'm european. If you can not get it in another country than your own, it means Russians living in USA, cannot get their visa in another countries consulate than the USA. Russia gives back what other countries gives them! So blame your government.
About wives/girlfriends....nothing changed for that, except maybe the place where you have to make the visa. If someone works here with a workingpermission, like they always should have!!! the 90 day rules for the partner don't count!

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimchik

Yeah, right. Next you'll be telling me most Russians pay their legal tax obligations too. Somehow I think the cash economy is alive and well in Russia.

You've missed an important problem. Those of us that work legally (residence card) in a country other than that in which our passport comes from.

I am not going to blame MY government for a problem which is nothing to do with them.

Posted by: kimchik

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

???
Who's talking about the economy?
Sorry but you're not making much sense here. What do U mean with that residence card? If u have a Russian residence card it's no problem for you.
And of course it's your government! The new rules are precisely formed do the way another country treated Russians already for a long time. Why should it be easier for you to get a russian visa if it's almost impossible for a Russian to get an American one? Like always in life, you get back what you give.....
But that is a problem with most Americans I met, they always seem to think they stand above everything, so it must be difficult if it turns out they're wrong.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimchik

Like many people I a mresident in a THIRD country. i.e. Not Russia, and NOT the country of the passport of which I hold.

Secondly, I suggest you look at my profile a little closer. I'm not American but Australian. And I'm living in the Middle East.

That's the problem with Russians, an inability to read signs posted directly in front of their faces.

Finally about Visas. You would know getting a Visa for Russian remains one of the most convoluted and inconsistent processes in the world today. With not one but THREE avenues for the government and Middle men to make their cut.

1. Invitation letter - costs money

2. The Visa - costs money

3. Registration - costs money.

As far as I am aware, once you get a Visa for America, the UK, Australia or elsewhere in Europe and you pass passport control at the border the government doesn't care where you go as long as you obey the law and behave yourself. Only countries such as Russia care about this Registration process.

Or perhaps in this "tit for tat" battle you seem intent on we should require all Russian visitors to register as well and demand money from them for the privledge?

Posted by: kimchik

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

Well, I did see that your location is not the States, but YOU were the one that spoke about American not able to get their visa in Helsinki, so excuse ME for reaction on that....
If you would have read my postings good, you could see that I am a European, Dutch to be precise, living and working in Russia. I can read signs, and was aware of you being Australian, but like I said, it seems you like to talk for the Americans. And those Americans I talked about, the ones working here for years on a businessvisa, now suddenly all applied for a workingpermission, and because of that, it now takes 3x as long as usually! About the registration bureaucracy here I agree, it's a useless hussle, but no one forces you or anyone to come here, do they???
Visa cost money everywhere, and if I want to work in the USA,(which I don't) I would have to apply for a green card MONTHS in advance, and trust me...this greencard is not for free, and hard to get.
I am not sure I understand why you point out the fact that you live in a third country"like many people", I guess you have your reasons. But I hope you like it there, and probably they also have there nasty things. I worked in Mozambique for a while, as you might know this is also a "third country", there I was stopped many times by policy asking about visa, and reason to be there, place where i stay, etc. If I wanted to avoid those kind of things, I would have stayed in my tolerant and civilised Holland. But I didn't, so I don't complain about rules other countries have, cause I CHOSE to go there....

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimchik

Well, I did see that your location is not the States, but YOU were the one that spoke about American not able to get their visa in Helsinki, so excuse ME for reaction on that....

So the fact I am Australian precludes me from commenting on the plight of others? Hmm.. How long have you been there. Sounds like you are turning quite Russified.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimchik

If you would have read my postings good, you could see that I am a European, Dutch to be precise, living and working in Russia. I can read signs, and was aware of you being Australian

Kimchik, apart from this thread I haven't read a single post of yours. So how would I know?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimchik

but like I said, it seems you like to talk for the Americans. And those Americans I talked about, the ones working here for years on a businessvisa, now suddenly all applied for a workingpermission, and because of that, it now takes 3x as long as usually! About the registration bureaucracy here I agree, it's a useless hussle, but no one forces you or anyone to come here, do they???

So lets get this right.. On the one hand it's the Western country's fault for imposing unfair rules but when Russia imposes similar cruft (and has done so for decades) "no one forces you to come here?"

Are you sure you don't have Russian blood in you?

Certainly there are people who took advantage of a Visa "grey area" for working in Russia. However, of the ex pats I know living in Russia, none is there to work. All are either married or in a serious relationship with a Russian woman. And, more pointedly ALL are planning on leaving. While none would claim these Visa changes are the sole reason for going I have had several of them describe the changes as "the straw that broke the camel's back".

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimchik

Visa cost money everywhere, and if I want to work in the USA,(which I don't) I would have to apply for a green card MONTHS in advance, and trust me...this greencard is not for free, and hard to get.

If the only costs involved were for a Visa then that could be justified. Visas do cost. However, where does the invitation and registration process exist in all this in terms of Western equivalency? Yes, sometimes you must have an invitation letter for a Western or European Visa however, such a letter consists of someone sitting down and writing a letter! No money changes hands! None of my discussion here has been focused on going to Russia for the purpose of working. That is a separate issue. And the current state of play is, that irrespective of other circumstances, including residency, the Russian Embassy in Helsinki is currently refusing ALL Business Visas to American passport holders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimchik

I am not sure I understand why you point out the fact that you live in a third country"like many people"

Because you provided this quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimchik

"Sorry but you're not making much sense here. What do U mean with that residence card? If u have a Russian residence card it's no problem for you."

Posted by: kimchik

[QUOTE=deccie]So the fact I am Australian precludes me from commenting on the plight of others? Hmm.. How long have you been there. Sounds like you are turning quite Russified.

Almost 2 years now...

Kimchik, apart from this thread I haven't read a single post of yours. So how would I know?

Exactly in this thread I pointed out already that I am European.

So lets get this right.. On the one hand it's the Western country's fault for imposing unfair rules but when Russia imposes similar cruft (and has done so for decades) "no one forces you to come here?"

??? I was just saying that if people complain that much about certain rules, maybe they better stay home, or accept it like it is. Things are getting better, Putin has done an amazing job, no country before has ever changed that much in such a short time( in the positive direction then). The old fashioned idea of control over the people which, besides money, is the reason they still have the registration, traintickets only by name, etc., will get less to.

Are you sure you don't have Russian blood in you?

In all your comments so far I sense a lot of hate towards Russians....why?
No...I am 100% Dutch. And I think I am pretty objective towards Russia, not everything is that nice. The things you complain about, I have to deal with day in and day out. But you get used to it. It's already a custom to go for the monthly 20dollar registration procedure.

Certainly there are people who took advantage of a Visa "grey area" for working in Russia. However, of the ex pats I know living in Russia, none is there to work. All are either married or in a serious relationship with a Russian woman. And, more pointedly ALL are planning on leaving. While none would claim these Visa changes are the sole reason for going I have had several of them describe the changes as "the straw that broke the camel's back".

Like I wrote earlier(maybe you didn't see it like the fact that I'm European), partners and children from or Russians, or legally in Russia working expats, can just stay as they used to, no 90 day rules, only where to obtain the visa might be different.

If the only costs involved were for a Visa then that could be justified. Visas do cost. However, where does the invitation and registration process exist in all this in terms of Western equivalency? Yes, sometimes you must have an invitation letter for a Western or European Visa however, such a letter consists of someone sitting down and writing a letter! No money changes hands! None of my discussion here has been focused on going to Russia for the purpose of working. That is a separate issue. And the current state of play is, that irrespective of other circumstances, including residency, the Russian Embassy in Helsinki is currently refusing ALL Business Visas to American passport holders.

For me,(european)the new businessvisa for a year would cost about 55 dollar. Last year 525!!! So don't say this new rule is to make more money!
Invitation and registration are useless bureaucratic crap, I agree 100%.
This visa thing is just political crap from which we are the victims. Well, me not really, cause as a Dutch I can still go to Helsinki, Talinn, or wherever to make my visa. But countries who have a hostile attitude towards Russia, can expect childish political discomforts back. I guess, for America, this is one of them.