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Learning to speak English
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Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by Pin Boy (in another thread)
I teach English as a Second Language and the writing skill is usually the hardest and the last that is mastered.

A very interesting comment. I would of thought it was the other way around. Several Russians I know (Natalya included) have much stronger writing skills than verbal.

I believe part of it is a result of exposure. There is only a limited amount of English speaking material available for them to study. Without the daily exposure to the verbal language, they focus on what's available, the written language. A friend of mine, who now lives in St. Petersburg, teaches English. His basic role is to converse with his classes in English, just so they will have that (almost) daily exposure to the language.

I also know it must be difficult once they arrive to the US, for most people here do not speak very well. We speak too fast, are lazy with our pronunciations, drop off at the end of sentences, and use a great deal of slang.

Regional differences and accents can also cause problems. Here in VT, on any day you may hear Boston and NYC accents, plus accents from Quebec and rural VT. Some of these I even have trouble understanding.

As an ESL teacher, can you recommend any learning material that may help those Russian speakers learning English? I have given Natalya the Pimsleur English for Russian Speakers set, which she has found useful. Is there other audio or video material you might suggest?

Posted by: sportbud

Yes ,This is also my observation.My Galina has very good writing skills with a good vocabulary.The only reason for not speaking as well has been almost no exsposure.She told me that while in university that it was not spoken at all in class as the teacher had not had the practice.She was taught mostly about phonetic
principles and grammar in english.

I also agree that americans have become far too lazy.Close friends have told me that I come off as being stuffy because I speak clearly and in complete sentences.Maybe the reason that I have not done well with first impressions with AW.And what about penmanship this has become a lost art.The one that gets me the most at work is how people rush through the most important information when speaking,contact information.I usually never get the correct phone # the first time.It is like people think it is impressive to spit it out fast.

I appreciate the idea on audio material.I was wondering what items that I might take on my trip to Belarus next month as gifts.This goes to the top of my list.

Thanks, Bud

Posted by: Arnold

Hello Sportbud,

Bring chick-flicks, make sure they are entertaining! Make sure they are in Pal system!

Tape conversion link originally provided by Jim_FL:

http://dvdoverseas.com/

Watching movies really helped me in learning how to speak the language. Maybe even tape programs off the TV (soap operas). You know, with the commercials and the news and everything. I think, this is very interesting to see for foreigners. Plus they can watch it over and over again!

The way how many children learn to speak, for example, is by repeating back slogans from commercials. Memorizing songs, etc.

Perhaps, ballad style songs might be a good idea as well, many musical instrument stores carry the text. A good excuse to bring a keyboard as a present!

Find out about your ladies hobbies and interests, then get educational do-it-yourself type of video tapes, because learning a language becomes a lot more accessible once you link it to something she enjoys.

Shoot a movie of yourself! She will love it! Just talk to her about whatever, make sure she can see your lips, because this will help her in regard to pronunciation.

Also get books on tapes! They are great, because she gets to listen to a story, and again can use this medium as well to immerse herself into the language. Basically effortless, because she can listen to it while cooking, for example!

Of course, if she is still in Russia, the only conversation practice she is going to get is with you on the phone, so be patient with her!

Best wishes, Arnold

Posted by: sportbud

Thanks Arnold
This is great information.Other than power I had no idea that there was a difference in operation of video devices.This will have saved me from much trouble.Your ideas are very creative as she also has a 7 year old son and this should be helpful to them both.I shall be looking into this.

Thanks Again, Bud

Posted by: ConnerVT

Perhaps watching a lot of movies improved the language you have already learned. But I have my doubts that you actually learned a language that way.

For most people, the biggest barrier is developing vocabulary. I have watch a bit of foreign movies and television. I have a limited vocabulary, so mostly it sounds like babble.

What I was more interested in are resources that are more instructional and/or interactive. Educational items focused on vocabulary building and pronunciation.

On PAL/NTSC conversion -- Before dropping big $$$ on converting tapes, check if your Russian friend's TV may be capable of showing NTSC input. I have found many of the newer TV sets (mid 1990's and newer) in Russia can display in both modes. Some switch automatically, some manually. Find out first, before spending your money.

Posted by: Arnold

Please, "bear" with me here, I just woke up, and I am reading your post while having my coffee.

Conner, I did not say that I learned the language this way (by watching TV), I said, I learned about pronunciation. Obviously you must have been tired when you read my post.

Conner, how are you going to learn a language, if nobody is there to show you how it is done?

You have to understand something here, Conner, people learn in different ways, both you and Bud wrote that your GF's have a huge vocabulary etc., but you want them to be able to speak the language better (at a higher level).

You guys wanted to know, how a foreigner can learn to speak?

I have given you the answer. Perhaps, you reject its validity, because it appears to "simplistic"?
But think about it for a moment, do you rather do something that is "fun and entertaining", or something that's a chore?

Maybe, you think that you believe a person has to be serious (in the sense of being devoid of fun and pleasure) in order to learn something new? Perhaps, this notion, or misconception about learning was "drilled" into your head from early on in "learning factories"?

But let me ask you someting Conner, all the knowledge that you have about the FSU, didn't you aquire it, because you derived pleasure from it?

Bud understands this "simple concept", because it makes sense. In addition, it is comparably inexpensive.

Conner, why do you think, there are so many diffrent approaches out there for learning a language?
One answer clearly is, that people learn in different ways, but the main reason is, because it is a money maker. Most of the instructional material I have come across in my lifetime is extremely dry and boring. The learning success is marginal.

But with my method, I have improved my level of ability to speak and write this language (your language) at the same level as most native speakers. I am being modest by the way!

If you don't want to take my advice fine, go ahead and torture your fiancee with boring tutorials.

If you want to build vocabulary in a foreign language, you have to read, read, read, and read even more.

This advice, I got from an American, a very "wise" man who was a cab driver, but used to be an university professor. For the longest time I did not follow his advice. Thinking, much like you Conner, that only taking classes and purchasing tutorials could improve my language ability.
I was wrong! I wasted much time, and much money! All I had to do, was to follow some "simple advice" from a cab driver.

Conner, in America you have a saying, "You will jump over a ten to pick up a dollar" ! Does that hold true for you?

Best wishes, Arnold

Posted by: Arnold

Guys,

make also sure the VCR supports NTSC! Because even if the TV does, you still will not get a picture, if the VCR only supports PAL or SECAM!

Bud, if you do buy a keyboard, you have to buy the "power cord" in addition. It is not included. But perhaps you could just buy a cord in the FSU, because keyboards utelize the transformer type power cords. You know, like a telephone does.

Best wishes, Arnold

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by Arnold
Please, "bear" with me here, I just woke up, and I am reading your post while having my coffee.

Perhaps you need to wait for the second cup to kick in before you post, for you seem to have misread some things, and taken several others out of context.

Quote:

Conner, I did not say that I learned the language this way (by watching TV), I said, I learned about pronunciation. Obviously you must have been tired when you read my post.

No, you said "Watching movies really helped me in learning how to speak the language. Maybe even tape programs off the TV (soap operas). You know, with the commercials and the news and everything. I think, this is very interesting to see for foreigners. Plus they can watch it over and over again!

The way how many children learn to speak, for example, is by repeating back slogans from commercials. Memorizing songs, etc.

I don't seem to see anything about pronunciation mentioned there.

Quote:

Conner, how are you going to learn a language, if nobody is there to show you how it is done?

You have to understand something here, Conner, people learn in different ways, both you and Bud wrote that your GF's have a huge vocabulary etc., but you want them to be able to speak the language better (at a higher level).

Again, I never have said anything about how huge my fiancee's vocabulary is. As a matter of fact, in other threads I have stated just the opposite. She is still just a beginning English speaker.

As for learning the English language, between working full time and taking care of her young son, she finds time to receive instruction twice a week, and study for an hour or more each night, after her son finally goes to sleep.

Quote:

You guys wanted to know, how a foreigner can learn to speak?

Don't you mean improve her pronunciation?

Quote:

I have given you the answer. Perhaps, you reject its validity, because it appears to "simplistic"?
But think about it for a moment, do you rather do something that is "fun and entertaining", or something that's a chore?

No, I rejected it as it was contrary to my experience, and to the experiences of many educated in the subject. Besides, it also isn't applicable to my situation, and I was the person who asked the question and started the thread.

Quote:

Maybe, you think that you believe a person has to be serious (in the sense of being devoid of fun and pleasure) in order to learn something new? Perhaps, this notion, or misconception about learning was "drilled" into your head from early on in "learning factories"?

I believe a person must desire to learn something, and have a rewarding practical application to use the skill, for them to really devote themselves to learning it.

Quote:

But let me ask you someting Conner, all the knowledge that you have about the FSU, didn't you aquire it, because you derived pleasure from it?

No. I gained it from experiencing it. Unlike some, I find the process of traveling half way around the world to be tedious and unrewarding. I do cherish the time I spend with my fiancée and her family. Given the choice, I would rather walk down the street to be with them, than fly for 12 hours.

Quote:

Bud understands this "simple concept", because it makes sense. In addition, it is comparably inexpensive.

I won't speak for sportbud. Perhaps you shouldn't, either.

Quote:

Conner, why do you think, there are so many diffrent approaches out there for learning a language?
One answer clearly is, that people learn in different ways, but the main reason is, because it is a money maker. Most of the instructional material I have come across in my lifetime is extremely dry and boring. The learning success is marginal.

Finally, something we agree on. I would suggest the success rate, however, is more linked to the motivation and desires of the individual that is learning, than to the quality of the material.

Quote:

But with my method, I have improved my level of ability to speak and write this language (your language) at the same level as most native speakers. I am being modest by the way!

I am overwhelmed by your modesty. I am also impressed how well you developed your writing skills by watching English videos and listening to English music.

Quote:

If you don't want to take my advice fine, go ahead and torture your fiancee with boring tutorials.

Thank you for allowing me to torture her as I please. I would think a lifetime of being with me would be enough.

Quote:

If you want to build vocabulary in a foreign language, you have to read, read, read, and read even more.

Read? But I thought you were watching videos and listening to CDs. Perhaps it was the CD covers and the FBI warnings on the tapes?

Quote:

This advice, I got from an American, a very "wise" man who was a cab driver, but used to be an university professor. For the longest time I did not follow his advice. Thinking, much like you Conner, that only taking classes and purchasing tutorials could improve my language ability.
I was wrong! I wasted much time, and much money! All I had to do, was to follow some "simple advice" from a cab driver.

Life as an university professor must of been very rewarding for him, to become a cab driver. But you obviously followed his advice, and had remarkable results. Unfortunately, I don't believe most people possess your gift of linguistic aptitude to achieve the same success as you have by following this "simple advice".

Did you have this conversation with the cab driver in English? Your skills must of been pretty good by this time, to carry on a chit-chat with a stranger.

At this level, I would say that immersion of any type, be it conversation (the best method, for the interaction involved) or media, is certainly beneficial. I have a friend in Russia (an American) who teaches at a school to do just that -- speak and interact with English speaking students. But for it not to be an exercise in frustration, one needs to be able to bring enough skills to the table.

Quote:

Conner, in America you have a saying, "You will jump over a ten to pick up a dollar" ! Does that hold true for you?

I can't say I have ever heard of that saying before, although I understand the meaning of it. But I'm certain I don't understand how it fits into this context.

Posted by: Arnold

Honestly Conner, I pity you!

In the future, I happen upon "YOUR" threads, I shall keep the ten for others, but I might throw you a dollar...

I know, what you are trying to do, but it is not working, you are not smart enough for me. This disappoints me, because I thought we were alike from an intellectual point of view. Well, I guess, I was wrong about you.

I wish you a blissful life in oblivion.

Posted by: ConnerVT

No, it stands for Vermont, as it is the USPS postal abbreviation for the state where I live. I am glad you 'understand' what I was trying to do, for I don't have any hidden agenda.

Feel free to pity me if you like. I prefer the happy life in oblivion over an unhappy one elsewhere.

As far as intellectuals go, I prefer the Russian view that it's much better to be clever. For intellectuals are never happy, thowing themselves as martyrs to their cause, and never embracing life's joys. But that's the subject of a different thread.

This thread is about learning to speak English. Other than immersion in entertainment videos and audio, does anyone else have an idea they wish to share?

Posted by: Arnold

Yes, in the time you have wasted writing rude replies to somebody who is trying to help you, you could have already learned a minimum of ten new vocabularies.

Posted by: Arnold

Try this: http://www.esl-lab.com

Exercises can be downloaded, and texts can be printed, in case your GF/fiancee has no computer access.

It seems to be pretty cool! Perhaps, this is what you were looking for?

-- Arnold

Posted by: sportbud

I appreciate all information volunteered.
Thanks, sportbud: