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Help is needed!

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Posted by: ElenaK

Hello everybody,
A few months ago I met a Ukrainian woman with her little daughter who just recently came into the USA and got married to a local guy. We exchange our phone numbers and kept in touch all this time. The reason that I decided to post my thread is to help her to get out of the situation that she is right now. I do not know if anybody from this forum has discussed the domestic abuse problem before. It is very common in the USA, especially in international families where husband is a sponsor to his foreign wife and her child (children). I don’t want to describe everything what happened with this poor woman. All what I am asking you for is to give me suggestions how to help her with a medical assistance and tickets to fly back to Ukraine. I will do research as well.
Thank you in advance, Elena


Posted by: Pilgrim

Sorry, I don't believe all stories that cry wolf....call me a skeptic.

Under the assumption that this is a true story, your friend has resources in the USA that can be started with a simple phone call to the police. It's that simple, if it is true. If it is true, she should get out of the situation, and there are resources to do so.

I am not disagreeing with this particular situation, of which there is limited information supplied by you. What I am disagreeing with is your "facts" you stated.

With all due respect to a potentially true story, domestic abuse is not that "common" in the USA, or else the exceptions which do occur would not be so widely reported. Most trailer-trash type men don't have the resources that would enable them bringing someone to the USA to an environment where a lot of abuse does occur in both directions. (That is, in lower economic classes, domestic abuse does occur more frequently, but those individuals typically don't have the resources to go to the FSU in the first place.) It is much more common for someone to come to the USA and CLAIM domestic abuse as a way to get out of the relationship and possibly stay in the USA (your friend is not stating she is wanting to stay here, so that is a point in her favor). False claims of domestic abuse and Green Card Girls have been widely documented as well, but these are not as sensational as an actual claim of domestic violence.

In my opinion, domestic abuse is more common in Eastern Europe than the USA. You even stated in another thread "It would be dishonest to say that all Russian men are villains and slackers. Probably I just was not lucky enough to meet a right guy there………"

If you thought it was very common, you should not have risked getting married here.


So, if your acquaintance is having problems and actual abuse is occuring, one trip to the hospital with the bruises would start a chain reaction.


Posted by: EasyTarget

If she is really being abused, then she should contact a local women's shelter. If you do a search on google.com for domestic violence women's shelter (put in her city name). You didn't say where she is from..etc...
http://www.feminist.org/911/crisis.html -- lists organizations in ever state. They are very helpful and can get her the help she needs.

HOWEVER I do want to state something. Your statement..."It is very common in the USA, especially in international families..."
is a very negative one. It is a stereotype that needs to be broken. It is the same as saming all Americans are fat. It is NOT true.

ALSO, there have been cases where the woman will make up stories about domestic violence in order to end her marriage while being able to remain in the US.

Of course none of us at this forum knows what the truth is, and ElenaK you don't know what the truth is either.

Let's hope the situation can be resolved quickly and safely.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Let's say what he says is 100% true.

Legally she can go to any U.S. Embassy or maybe the police department and ask them to get money from this man to send her back to the FSU. This man signed a I-134 or I-864 stating he would provide for during her stay in the USA. It is law, he must do this or possibly go to a Federal prison or pay a huge fine. Proof of abuse is not needed because he signed 1 of these forms.


Posted by: ElenaK

Thanks for such personal attention; I did not expect to see a quote from my previous postings. Wow! I don’t possess excellent English, I am just leaning, but I see a difference between “all” and “common”. I didn’t hear about domestic abuse when I met my husband and with his kind and sweet temper he couldn’t hurt a fly. I know six Russian/Ukrainian women from MN only who went through different type of “husband” abuse. If it is not common what is it?
Just imagine you came to the USA and you can barely speak English, you don’t have driver’s license, especially a vehicle, you don’t have permit to work or permanent resident card. You have nothing except marriage certificate and K-1 or K-3 visa, from which there isn’t much help. Your husband, who is only one who you can trust and who you can count on, from whom you are completely depended in this absolutely new world for you, doesn’t do anything to help you to become a part of this world. He enjoys his control, taking charge of everything. You cannot opinion you voice or otherwise your honey can slam the door and leave you for a few days or weeks with an empty refrigerator and no money. He is very sweet and loving, especially on public, until you start talking about a joint bank account or that your tooth is hearting second month already and you need to do something about it, then your husband suddenly gets upset and don’t speak with you a few days. When you finally got to the point when you realized that it is not a relationship that you dreamt about, that you don’t have social life at all or even possibility to work and earn money on your own or basically get out of the house, you asked your “husband” to get you tickets to come back home. Guess what an answer you would receive………..”It is not a prison you can go whatever you want to go”……… Tell me what kind of abuse is it? He is respected citizen with a good reputation. Will police do anything about it? And it is just one little example.
I am not going to dispute there are numerous happy families. I believe you are good guys who will never do anything like that. All what I needed is advise. Shelter is probably a good idea. Only one mention of it possibly can change the situation.

Thank you very much for your answers. Sincerely, Elena


Posted by: ham

Frankly speaking, it sounds like
INS studies quantified abuse in MOB relationships to 1% or non-ponderable.
Saying that "all" or "most" western men are abusers is as stupid and as groundless as saying all or most russian men are abusive unemployed drunkards...can we spot a trend here?
Don't you remember pouring your heart out over it during correspondence?
So yes, you are not trying to get rid of the ball&chain western sucker...silly me with negative thoughts...you are a victim.

Quote:
until you start talking about a joint bank account or that your tooth is hearting second month already


Well, i'd take you to the dentist, but no joint bank account darling...good ole Ham isn't paying for when you go out and play the beast with two backs with some hunk out there.

Quote:
Just imagine you came to the USA and you can barely speak English, you don’t have driver’s license, especially a vehicle, you don’t have permit to work or permanent resident card. You have nothing except marriage certificate and K-1 or K-3 visa


Naah!
That is a MAIL ORDER BRIDE marriage...that is how it works and that is what you (or your friend ) got into during all those cold & windy nights at the internet cafè writing violent losers...ops...back then it was "foreign gentlemen" from 15.000 km away...i hate to break it to you but they speak another language that far from your neighborhood.

Quote:
You cannot opinion you voice or otherwise your honey can slam the door and leave you for a few days or weeks with an empty refrigerator and no money


hmm
i would slam the door if you asked me to foot the bills of your university in the west or wanted to fly back home 4 times a year or...see my point?

so, yes, you can go down to the police station, pick preferably a minority cop who looks pissed already, and burst into tears describing evil abuses...if you watch cable TV movies, well borrow some scenes...you can even inflict yourself wounds and claim evil Barney (who's been visiting his sister in Finland for the last month ) did that to you just minutes ago...you can let your fantasy loose, claim he tied you to chair and forced to watch Hitler speak in Nurnberg for hours...you can claim he said he'd take you camping, but you found yourself in a far-right paramilitary camp packed with neonazis, KKK members and survivalists... and be sure to look the coloured cop in the eyes when you sob you fainted right during the third minute of the speech by the KKK guy...so much bad things told of you-know-who...
You can even say he took away your bible along with your passport, and replaced it with Tom Metzger's newsletter...


I hope i didn't sound distrusting and sceptical...

To all men out there: watch out guys! It might be you next!
You may think you're a meek sucker...hell, you ACT like one and have been told so repeatedly...but in reality you are an evil control freak AFTER her immigration position stabilizes and she no longer needs you.
To all ladies interested in the above: some will fail for the trick, but some see right through the smokescreen, ok?


Posted by: Spakoyna

Elena,You brought up a subject everyone should be aware of. Every woman from the FSU seems to experience what you are describing to some degree in my opinion. What you are describing is the low point in adapting to a new society as well as homesickness being at it's strongest.

I have a generalization about the majority of FSU women when they 1st come to be with their new husbands (I have seen this quite a bit).

Everything they do not like is exagerated to unreasonable extremes.

They are very impatient and want the financial benifits of a marriage that is 20 years old. IE yes darling,you should give me 1/2 the house even though we have only been together 6 months.

Many are hypochondriacs. My wife was a little that way in the beginning until she realized the doctors will do what ever she wanted. We wasted $2000 on a tooth that was fine. Turned out to be the tooth next to it which had just been fixed. American dentists throw up a red flag on most Russian Root Canals because they are partial. Because of the filling material "Red Jacket" the average dentist cannot finish the root canal. So one has to pay 2 dentists...one with a realtime continus x-ray machine to remove the red jackety and finish the root canal and the 2nd to put on the crown with no discount for not having to do the root canal.
Now enter the medical Doctor. America is the land of good medicine,but it is expensive. If you have a complaint there is a barrage of tests a Doctor can do at $1000 a pop and up! Heatlh Insurance is expensive. I personally carry a fairly high deductible because unless you are a hypochondriac or truely unhealthy it is the way to go. My wife exceded tye deductible her 1st year. She finally drew the line when they were about to do onna those elaborate heart stress tests that was gonna set us back a few K. She was told she had low blood pressure in Russia. Damn...most people here would die to have the healthy blood pressure she has.

I could ramble on and on. The point I am trying to make is the feelings Elena is describing is probably the biggest hurdle these marriages have to overcome. The FSU lady needs to have patience,etc. and The man has to have great patience and understanding!


Posted by: Pilgrim

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
What you are describing is the low point in adapting to a new society as well as homesickness being at it's strongest. ...Everything they do not like is exagerated to unreasonable extremes.


I would tend to think that this is the correct interpretation of what is happening here. The myth of spousal abuse was probably discussed a lot before this person came to the USA, and she is filled with a background of terror filled thoughts of what could go wrong. Something happened, and the lady went to an extreme in her mind that is unwarranted.

For all we know, Elena's friend has just told her new husband about the STDs or that she is still married or her mother needs $$$$$$ for an operation for something, she actually has 5 kids, or something else she has hid from him, and he is trying to deal with this new fact of life, getting himself tested, and thinking what an idiot he was. And she is saying that he is abusing her by being upset and silent and giving her the cold shoulder until he can cope with it.

My interpretation could be wrong. My concern is not for this lady (as I believe there are adequate resources out there to protect victims of abuse, even if she can't speak English....she has contact with Elena, for instance, so she is communicating with someone), but for the potential "rescuers" who try to rescue someone out of a "domestic violence" situation who are actually helping to perpetuate either a fraud or involving themselves in a relationship dispute that will work itself out over time. Hearing one side of a story does not provide a balanced perspective.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

I agree with you 100% Spanky. These women give up everything to be with us. We should make sacarifices for them so they will be happy, feel oved, and supported. Yes there is an occational bad apple/GGG and maybe some of their requests are a bit much, but if you can afford it and it makes them happy ... why not!

If a request is "too much" then explain to them why this can't or shouldn't be done. Make them understand and they will learn what requests make good sense.


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim

For all we know, Elena's friend has just told her new husband about the STDs or that she is still married or her mother needs $$$$$$ for an operation for something, she actually has 5 kids, or something else she has hid from him, and he is trying to deal with this new fact of life, getting himself tested, and thinking what an idiot he was. And she is saying that he is abusing her by being upset and silent and giving her the cold shoulder until he can cope with it.

My interpretation could be wrong.


You definitely have vivid imagination to create such interpretations.

Anyway, here is the sirvival guide for foreign brides.

1. Never ever go on a fiance visa adventure without a return ticket with an open date and enough money to take a taxi to the airport.

2. Never ever sell your apartment before going abroad. No way. You MUST have a place to return to in case things do not work out.

3. Never ever quit your job, university, college. Ask for an academic leave, gap year, whatever, try to secure your place of work if possible.

4. Never ever go anywhere without basic knowledge of English. You must be able at least to call police, ambulance, shelter.

6. and don't think men from US, UK, Germany will become tickets to your new life. THey won't. The only reliable ticket to happy, well-to-do life is bought for your own money got from hard work and good education.

Re Elena's friend story. All I can see here is called emotional, psychological abuse or may be failed expectations or may be homesickness plus misunderstanding caused by lack of English skills.

Is she ready to divorce him and go home?


Posted by: Spakoyna

Seaveiw, I want to address your rule #6! A true marriage of happiness is based on love and being a team together. Independance is a good thing to a point. This is usually not possible in a relationship like this for several years.

I have seen a few relationships fail because the lady was so driven to become independant that she lost sight of why she married in the 1st place(at least I hope).

The older a lady is the more difficult it is to acheive an independance that would support a normal lifestyle here. Most professional type jobs which require a degree are not transferable without a few years of study(university) or training.

I do agree with what your saying but the way you lay it out seems more like an agendda rather than someone seeking true love in a marriage. I believe if you laid out these guidelines to a serious man seeking a good marriage he would run for the hills. I know I would!


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
You definitely have vivid imagination to create such interpretations.

Anyway, here is the sirvival guide for foreign brides.

1. Never ever go on a fiance visa adventure without a return ticket with an open date and enough money to take a taxi to the airport.

2. Never ever sell your apartment before going abroad. No way. You MUST have a place to return to in case things do not work out.

3. Never ever quit your job, university, college. Ask for an academic leave, gap year, whatever, try to secure your place of work if possible.

4. Never ever go anywhere without basic knowledge of English. You must be able at least to call police, ambulance, shelter.

6. and don't think men from US, UK, Germany will become tickets to your new life. THey won't. The only reliable ticket to happy, well-to-do life is bought for your own money got from hard work and good education.

Re Elena's friend story. All I can see here is called emotional, psychological abuse or may be failed expectations or may be homesickness plus misunderstanding caused by lack of English skills.

Is she ready to divorce him and go home?

Hmmm ... I don't think we would have very many women from the FSU in this country if these rules were followed.


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Well, i'd take you to the dentist, but no joint bank account darling...good ole Ham isn't paying for when you go out and play the beast with two backs with some hunk out there.


You are a control freak, ham... Women need money not only to go out with other guys while you sleep peacefully in your bed. Organizing a joint bank account after 6 months of marriage may be too early, but is it such a problem to organize a debit card for her where you could transfer some previously discussed sum of money every month? It's humiliating to ask for money to make epilation, sorry, or to buy a small Christmas present to her own husband.

Quote:
That is a MAIL ORDER BRIDE marriage...that is how it works and that is what you (or your friend ) got into during all those cold & windy nights at the internet cafè writing violent losers...ops...back then it was "foreign gentlemen" from 15.000 km away...i hate to break it to you but they speak another language that far from your neighborhood.


Ham, sorry for a personal question, what's the purpose of such posts on russianmeetingplace site? To heat up a discussion a bit?

Quote:
hmm
i would slam the door if you asked me to foot the bills of your university in the west or wanted to fly back home 4 times a year or...see my point?


You'd better not slam it. You'd better explain why you cannot do it. A very intelligent English gentleman in his late fifties was paying 5 (five) years for his wife's university education. He was joking that she is his most expensive investment that should be generously repaid in the future when he retires.


Quote:
so, yes, you can go down to the police station, pick preferably a minority cop who looks pissed already, and burst into tears describing evil abuses...if you watch cable TV movies, well borrow some scenes...you can even inflict yourself wounds and claim evil Barney (who's been visiting his sister in Finland for the last month ) did that to you just minutes ago...you can let your fantasy loose, claim he tied you to chair and forced to watch Hitler speak in Nurnberg for hours...you can claim he said he'd take you camping, but you found yourself in a far-right paramilitary camp packed with neonazis, KKK members and survivalists... and be sure to look the coloured cop in the eyes when you sob you fainted right during the third minute of the speech by the KKK guy...so much bad things told of you-know-who...
You can even say he took away your bible along with your passport, and replaced it with Tom Metzger's newsletter...


I hope i didn't sound distrusting and sceptical...


Nope. It sounded just racist.

Quote:
To all men out there: watch out guys! It might be you next!
You may think you're a meek sucker...hell, you ACT like one and have been told so repeatedly...but in reality you are an evil control freak AFTER her immigration position stabilizes and she no longer needs you.
To all ladies interested in the above: some will fail for the trick, but some see right through the smokescreen, ok? :lasergun


And it sounded hysterical.


Posted by: Longfellow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
called emotional, psychological abuse or may be failed expectations or may be homesickness plus misunderstanding caused by lack of English skills.

Seaview makes some very sensible statements. This is very good advice.
If everything being said by ElenaK about the husbands behavior is 100% true, I would call that domineering behavior with emotional and psychological punishment. The attempt to isolate, or keep isolated, a woman is a halllmark characteristic of an abusive man... I would consider it a strong early warning sign.
But as other have said, there are 3 sides to every story, his, hers and the truth.
We are only hearing second-hand news of one side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
Let's say what he says is 100% true.

Legally she can go to any U.S. Embassy or maybe the police department and ask them to get money from this man to send her back to the FSU. This man signed a I-134 or I-864 stating he would provide for during her stay in the USA. It is law, he must do this or possibly go to a Federal prison or pay a huge fine. Proof of abuse is not needed because he signed 1 of these forms.

If all she wants is out and a way back to FSU, she has it. And the annullment of the marriage can proceed on the grounds of abandonment.
Everyone would say to a woman who feels threatened or endangered in her marriage, "Get out as soon as possible before it gets worse."
Because in a true situation of domestic violence or abuse, it will get worse.


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
Hmmm ... I don't think we would have very many women from the FSU in this country if these rules were followed.


THey are not followed, unfortunately ... But they are simple, aren't they

In the West a single woman is just a single woman, in the FSU a single woman is a third-rate poor thing. Of course, they are ready for anything to get married, to go to another part of the world without money, language and clear understanding what happens next.


Posted by: Longfellow

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
Hmmm ... I don't think we would have very many women from the FSU in this country if these rules were followed.
Some of that list may be unworkable for some women, but they are all good suggestions.
I have indicated to my lady that if we ever get to the point of her moving here, the tickets I buy for her and her children will be round-trip with open return date.
I do not want any worry on her part of being hostage or 'stuck with me'. And if everything were to be perfect, the tickets could be used for a visit to parents or refunded for some small loss. Seems a small expense to give some peace of mind to someone you love.
I also would follow Seaviews advice in providing this lady with some regular, disposable monthly income on a debit card. We all want some pocket money. how can you explore and learn without it. Also a pass for the municipal transit system. I can't imagine moving somewhere only to be confined to walking distance.


Posted by: ElenaK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
I would tend to think that this is the correct interpretation of what is happening here. The myth of spousal abuse was probably discussed a lot before this person came to the USA, and she is filled with a background of terror filled thoughts of what could go wrong. Something happened, and the lady went to an extreme in her mind that is unwarranted.

For all we know, Elena's friend has just told her new husband about the STDs or that she is still married or her mother needs $$$$$$ for an operation for something, she actually has 5 kids, or something else she has hid from him, and he is trying to deal with this new fact of life, getting himself tested, and thinking what an idiot he was. And she is saying that he is abusing her by being upset and silent and giving her the cold shoulder until he can cope with it.


It is nothing like that. She isn’t a user. Her Mother is healthy and would never ask about a penny from her husband. She offered him everything she had and expected an opened and honest relation from her partner. They were corresponding about 2 years before they met and he came to visit her and parents 2 times. They had a beautiful wedding in Ukraine among her family and friends. She thought she knew him very well and trusted him. Her family does not know everything that is going on with my acquaintance. It is embarrassing! Not everybody can easily admit that was so stupid that got in the situation like that.
Thanks God she has a loving family in Ukraine and a big beautiful house on Black seaside to live.


Posted by: ElenaK

I am glad that some of you showed your real nature!


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
THey are not followed, unfortunately ... But they are simple, aren't they

In the West a single woman is just a single woman, in the FSU a single woman is a third-rate poor thing. Of course, they are ready for anything to get married, to go to another part of the world without money, language and clear understanding what happens next.


Yes simple and nice rules to follow but a bit too idealistic. I would say no more then 30% of FSUW have all these skills and abilities ... probably less and therefore idealistic.


Posted by: Pilgrim

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaK
It is nothing like that.


Elena, in that case, I stand corrected, and I will get out of my defensive position.

I just didn't want to be put in the position of helping a scam artist. If your friend is truly in need, there (honestly) are lots of things she can do to protect herself. The USA (typically) bends over backwards to help a woman in abuse situations.

Oops...just read your last post.....showing true nature....the reason some of us are defensive is that we have lost considerable $$$$ and time due to people who have cheated on us. So, we are less trusting, yes. It takes more than an email plea from someone I don't know to offer assistance, when there is ready assistance available in lots of places.

On other boards there have been similiar pleas, even pleas for money to assist to fly someone back home to Ukraine.

I have already made my sizable donations to answer someone's cry for assistance, donated money to see what they did with it, and did not hear from them again until they ran out of money. She treated it as a holiday and an adventure, I just happened to be the poor sap to sponsor her trips to the USA, and mine to the FSU.

A learning experience, for sure.

So, for some of us, your friend's story is starting out in a suspiciously familiar tune.



Just because I haven't posted on this board much doesn't mean I haven't been around the block a time or two.


Good luck to good intentions.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaK
I am glad that some of you showed your real nature!


Hmm ... I probably shouldn't take this as a compliment!


Posted by: Pilgrim

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
You definitely have vivid imagination to create such interpretations.


While vivid, from the statements originally made, this interpretation had equal probability of being true.

Without getting too much into stereotypes, there was not enough facts to make an honest interpretation of what was "not being said". I was offering an alternative perspective.


Posted by: ElenaK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Oops...just read your last post.....showing true nature....the reason some of us are defensive is that we have lost considerable $$$$ and time due to people who have cheated on us. So, we are less trusting, yes. It takes more than an email plea from someone I don't know to offer assistance, when there is ready assistance available in lots of places.

On other boards there have been similiar pleas, even pleas for money to assist to fly someone back home to Ukraine.

I have already made my sizable donations to answer someone's cry for assistance, donated money to see what they did with it, and did not hear from them again until they ran out of money. She treated it as a holiday and an adventure, I just happened to be the poor sap to sponsor her trips to the USA, and mine to the FSU.

A learning experience, for sure.

Good luck to good intentions.


Live and lean!
Sorry but I don’t recall asking you for donations or assistance just for a clever advise. Isn’t this forum about?


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfellow
Some of that list may be unworkable for some women, but they are all good suggestions.
I have indicated to my lady that if we ever get to the point of her moving here, the tickets I buy for her and her children will be round-trip with open return date.
I do not want any worry on her part of being hostage or 'stuck with me'. And if everything were to be perfect, the tickets could be used for a visit to parents or refunded for some small loss. Seems a small expense to give some peace of mind to someone you love.


A Russian girl who came on fiance visa to the UK told me once that her return ticket was making her feel free and independent. She knew she could come back any moment if she were not happy with their relationship. It was quite a turbulent relationship, by the way , they both turned out to be very temperamental persons. So several times it came to "I am going back to Russia NOW!" point.

Nevertheless, they got married and everything is fine. But the fact that she didn't feel "trapped" was very important for her.


Posted by: Pilgrim

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaK
Live and lean!
Sorry but I don’t recall asking you for donations or assistance just for a clever advise. Isn’t this forum about?


Donations from scams or even well intentioned folks usually don't come right away....even churches don't ask for money in the first contact of a situation, but they build a mental image of need and play upon emotions.

And I gave advice. Go to the hospital if there is abuse. Call the police. This are pretty simple little things that someone can do on their own, regardless of language barriers. You have a husband that speaks English....can he call the police for you?

If you want a lawyer's advice, then talk to a lawyer. For those interested in divorcing their mate or getting it annulled after just getting to the states (which smells like a Green Card Girl or equivalent), there are other boards which tell the tricks of the trade in how to claim abuse even if it is not real, how to game the system so that the guy is stuck with the bills and court orders, even losing his house.

I will go back to my original intent in my first message on this thread, and perhaps make it clearer. If someone is actually being abused, they need to get out of that situation immediately. There is no reason for anyone to live with abuse. It can be started with a phone call to the police. They will set things in motion.

Your email claimed that spousal abuse is prevalent and "It is very common in the USA"....this is what I am against. Your automatic assumption that the women is right, the guy is dead wrong, and someone should do something immediately! Well, pick up the phone and call the police, hospital, shelter....

In my opinion, however, I have not heard enough about this particular situation to make the assumption someone is being abused. They are continuing to stay in the situation. If unbearable, leave. If things can be worked out, she needs a friend to discuss things with, not someone who immediately jumps on the domestic abuse bandwagon and thinks the guy is automatically at fault. They could be having a spat, and she is dumping all sorts of bile on someone that may or may not even be true.

You probably don't know if this woman has told you all the truth about the situation yet. I personally know a Ukrainian lady, currently in Canada, and many of her best friends. Her best friends don't even know that she is still currently married to another guy, who also happens to be living in Canada. Of course, she is dating and living apart from her husband....she just used her husband to get her into Canada. Now she wants in the USA.

I kid you not, some of her best friends do not even have a clue she is still married. (Yes, I knew them quite well, but they were in Ukraine, and their friend was in Canada) Imagine the poor guy who gets hoodwinked into a relationship with her, and finds out later that she is married.

Believe what you will. My advice is to get out of any abused situation quickly. If someone wants to stay in an "abusive relationship", that is a choice in the USA, not a requirement, even if they don't speak English very well. She could get out TODAY if she wanted to.

My apologies that I am not a bleeding heart person who believes everything told so far. There is more to this story.


I'm done. I've been the skeptic up to now. I do find it interesting that someone would write to a board devoted to helping guys find FSU ladies, and then also state the "domestic abuse problem...is very common in the USA, especially in international families where husband is a sponsor to his foreign wife and her child (children)"....that takes an amazing amount of Chutzpah
to write to that same audience for assistance.

If you honestly believed that domestic abuse is a common problem in these situations, why are you writing for advice from here? You basically accused people of being a potential domestic abuse partner if they look at FSU women. And you are surprised if someone takes offense at that accusation?

Sigh....


Posted by: freebird

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaK
Live and lean!
Sorry but I don’t recall asking you for donations or assistance just for a clever advise. Isn’t this forum about?


Yes that is what the Forum is about, and most of us are happy to help. I think the advice & comments by Seaview, GTR, Spakoyna, & Easy Target was helpful & not overly skeptical. You will find a few people on this forum with a very negative view of FSU women, that preach doom & gloom for everyone contemplating such a relationship. There are also some women on this forum (and others) that tell other women that most of the US/Uk/European/Commonwealth men are abusive, mean, cheap, controlling, lazy, jealous etc. etc. They are both extreme points of view that are thankfully not the norm here.

You are always welcome to ask for advice, and most of us are happy to give it. There are two ways that would advise you (or your friend). If the man has actually been physically violent or abusive, she should definitely report it, make notes of the times, dates, what happened, hospital records etc. No decent man should ever have to get violent with his woman regardless if he was drunk or whatever.
If however it is perhaps a case of poor communication, cultural differences, mutual mistrust, homesickness, and difficulty adjusting to the marriage (for both of them) then I hope that they will try to work things out before just quitting.
You could perhaps tell us more information so that we could try to give more advice. How did they meet, over the internet? How long did they know each other before marriage? Does he or she have any children? how long did he spend with her (in Russia) before she came over? Does he have a problem with drinking? How is her relationship with his friends/relatives? How well does she speak english?


Posted by: ElenaK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Donations from scams or even well intentioned folks usually don't come right away....even churches don't ask for money in the first contact of a situation, but they build a mental image of need and play upon emotions.

And I gave advice. Go to the hospital if there is abuse. Call the police. This are pretty simple little things that someone can do on their own, regardless of language barriers. You have a husband that speaks English....can he call the police for you?

If you want a lawyer's advice, then talk to a lawyer. For those interested in divorcing their mate or getting it annulled after just getting to the states (which smells like a Green Card Girl or equivalent), there are other boards which tell the tricks of the trade in how to claim abuse even if it is not real, how to game the system so that the guy is stuck with the bills and court orders, even losing his house.

I will go back to my original intent in my first message on this thread, and perhaps make it clearer. If someone is actually being abused, they need to get out of that situation immediately. There is no reason for anyone to live with abuse. It can be started with a phone call to the police. They will set things in motion.

Your email claimed that spousal abuse is prevalent and "It is very common in the USA"....this is what I am against. Your automatic assumption that the women is right, the guy is dead wrong, and someone should do something immediately! Well, pick up the phone and call the police, hospital, shelter....

In my opinion, however, I have not heard enough about this particular situation to make the assumption someone is being abused. They are continuing to stay in the situation. If unbearable, leave. If things can be worked out, she needs a friend to discuss things with, not someone who immediately jumps on the domestic abuse bandwagon and thinks the guy is automatically at fault. They could be having a spat, and she is dumping all sorts of bile on someone that may or may not even be true.

You probably don't know if this woman has told you all the truth about the situation yet. I personally know a Ukrainian lady, currently in Canada, and many of her best friends. Her best friends don't even know that she is still currently married to another guy, who also happens to be living in Canada. Of course, she is dating and living apart from her husband....she just used her husband to get her into Canada. Now she wants in the USA.

I kid you not, some of her best friends do not even have a clue she is still married. (Yes, I knew them quite well, but they were in Ukraine, and their friend was in Canada) Imagine the poor guy who gets hoodwinked into a relationship with her, and finds out later that she is married.

Believe what you will. My advice is to get out of any abused situation quickly. If someone wants to stay in an "abusive relationship", that is a choice in the USA, not a requirement, even if they don't speak English very well. She could get out TODAY if she wanted to.

My apologies that I am not a bleeding heart person who believes everything told so far. There is more to this story.


I'm done. I've been the skeptic up to now. I do find it interesting that someone would write to a board devoted to helping guys find FSU ladies, and then also state the "domestic abuse problem...is very common in the USA, especially in international families where husband is a sponsor to his foreign wife and her child (children)"....that takes an amazing amount of Chutzpah
to write to that same audience for assistance.

If you honestly believed that domestic abuse is a common problem in these situations, why are you writing for advice from here? You basically accused people of being a potential domestic abuse partner if they look at FSU women. And you are surprised if someone takes offense at that accusation?

Sigh....



Sorry Pilgrim, I did not mean to step on your sore callous. It seems like you had unpleasant experience in your life. Hopefully things will get better for you and one day you will be able to trust people again. I am against the category of women who are looking for this type of profit as well. That is why my advise to my acquaintance was to fine a way to get back home.


For you, Freebird, thank you for desire to help. I don't feel it is moral to discuss on the forum details of my acquaintance personal life behind her back. We can talk via private messages.
I did a research by myself and I am going to talk to my acquaintance and tell her about the options that she has. It is only her choice what she wants to do with her life. I'll be there for her if she needs me.


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
A Russian girl who came on fiance visa to the UK told me once that her return ticket was making her feel free and independent. She knew she could come back any moment if she were not happy with their relationship. It was quite a turbulent relationship, by the way , they both turned out to be very temperamental persons. So several times it came to "I am going back to Russia NOW!" point.

Nevertheless, they got married and everything is fine. But the fact that she didn't feel "trapped" was very important for her.


I think that would be a significant comfort factor for a women if she was not already 100% sure about moving abroad, feeling trapped in a situation she has no control over must be one of the hardest things for the legitimate women caught up in a possible problem relationship.


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Seaveiw, I want to address your rule #6! A true marriage of happiness is based on love and being a team together. Independance is a good thing to a point. This is usually not possible in a relationship like this for several years.

I have seen a few relationships fail because the lady was so driven to become independant that she lost sight of why she married in the 1st place(at least I hope).


I don't argue with that. But as far as I know the most common problem of our girls abroad is their total dependence on their sponsor. It's very difficult even for a true love to survive this situation.

Quote:
The older a lady is the more difficult it is to acheive an independance that would support a normal lifestyle here. Most professional type jobs which require a degree are not transferable without a few years of study(university) or training.


It actually means that such issues as her pocket money, training courses ( if needed) should be dicussed previously not to cause family rows. If she knows that she will get her English courses and some money to buy stuff without consulting her husband first she will be quite happy with her life and not driven by independence idea too much. It's not the money question, btw, it's all about attitude.


Quote:
I do agree with what your saying but the way you lay it out seems more like an agendda rather than someone seeking true love in a marriage. I believe if you laid out these guidelines to a serious man seeking a good marriage he would run for the hills. I know I would!


Well... that's just me Anyway, I would have never laid out these guidelines to any man. I would have just bought a return ticket and secured my job ( if possible). I would have never started discussing it. What for? The most important thing is to know that you are ok under any circumstances. I wouldn't like to find myself in the middle of nowhere with an abusive control freak without any money and tickets back home. that's all I find it reasonable


Posted by: ham

Quote:
Ham, sorry for a personal question, what's the purpose of such posts on russianmeetingplace site? To heat up a discussion a bit?


why do you ask me? Ask the woman who -obviously- spent time eloping online with a man she now describes as a sadist...caught in her own trick maybe ? Or maybe wanting the "american dream" in spite of the "american" (man) part?

Quote:
You are a control freak, ham


and you the next visa queen who exited pleistocene learning english perhaps?

Quote:
Organizing a joint bank account after 6 months of marriage may be too early, but is it such a problem to organize a debit card for her where you could transfer some previously discussed sum of money every month? It's humiliating to ask for money to make epilation, sorry, or to buy a small Christmas present to her own husband.


If you ask ME there will NEVER be anything joint. There are two men who once had money now sleeping in a trailer because of exotic women, that i know of in this little village. They aren't heroes; actually their are the hottest joke here. Wasn't being dependent part of the picture? It's a MOB thing, remember? Don't like heat? Stay away from the kitchen.

Quote:
A very intelligent English gentleman in his late fifties was paying 5 (five) years for his wife's university education. He was joking that she is his most expensive investment that should be generously repaid in the future when he retires.


there are a couple freshly oven baked failures told here. Go ask those men how "rewarded" their "investment" was...


Quote:
Nope. It sounded just racist.




actually a friend of mine got his refugee status he had been denied thanks to a little coaching on my part...and he brought his terminally ill wife to be cured at big brother's expenses, too! i told him to pick the most typical coloured immigration agent and stage a tragedy i had invented, with a few friends of his as "witnesses"...

Quote:
You definitely have vivid imagination to create such interpretations.


hell, who has the patent on imagination? You and your control freak phantasies ( a psychological term opposed to fantasy )?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaK
I am glad that some of you showed your real nature!


Hmm ... I probably shouldn't take this as a compliment!


i do take it as a compliment.

Quote:
And it sounded hysterical.


it is definitely bad for business that people like me exist, same as it is bad for hackers and phishers that good firewalls exist.
But relax...search hard enough and you'll find a sucker who believes russian men are all abusive, paroled drunkards; that an aspirin is $50; that she walked 20km in the snow just to send an email; that airport security thugs require $900 pocket money; that her aunt who works as a travel agent can procure a visa for $300 but we must act quickly or the "loophole" will expire.
He will rescue her... and soon thereafter...

Quote:
the reason some of us are defensive is that we have lost considerable $$$$ and time due to people who have cheated on us.


those who believe & are scammed, they call them idiots or suckers; those who don't want to loose anymore are called "control freaks"...can we spot a trend?


Posted by: Longfellow

I guess the 'voice of reason' doesn't have to be rational.


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
why do you ask me? Ask the woman who -obviously- spent time eloping online with a man she now describes as a sadist...caught in her own trick maybe ? Or maybe wanting the "american dream" in spite of the "american" (man) part?


She does not describe him as a sadist. She describes him as a domineering type of a person. It's not the same.

What is an "american dream", btw?

Quote:
and you the next visa queen who exited pleistocene learning english perhaps?


Taking into consideration the number of visas in my passport I can definitely be called a visa queen . As for my English... well, it's anyway much better than your Russian

Quote:
If you ask ME there will NEVER be anything joint. There are two men who once had money now sleeping in a trailer because of exotic women, that i know of in this little village. They aren't heroes; actually their are the hottest joke here. Wasn't being dependent part of the picture? It's a MOB thing, remember? Don't like heat? Stay away from the kitchen.



THere is a girl who sold her apartments in Moscow worth $240 000 and put this money to her husband's account. He promised her to pay back the mortgage. Unfortunately, the money has just disappeared. She was not the hottest joke neither here nor there. It was a tragedy for her and her kids. She finally left the UK with the help of British authorities who forced her "husband" to buy her tickets home.

Quote:
there are a couple freshly oven baked failures told here. Go ask those men how "rewarded" their "investment" was...


I don't say it's a typical situation. The guy who paid for his wife's university was a really well off guy, a respectable lawyer, it was just a way for him to demonstrate his love and care. Things do happen.


Quote:
it is definitely bad for business that people like me exist, same as it is bad for hackers and phishers that good firewalls exist.
But relax...search hard enough and you'll find a sucker who believes russian men are all abusive, paroled drunkards; that an aspirin is $50; that she walked 20km in the snow just to send an email; that airport security thugs require $900 pocket money; that her aunt who works as a travel agent can procure a visa for $300 but we must act quickly or the "loophole" will expire.
He will rescue her... and soon thereafter...


Looks like Ham really believed that "russian men are all abusive, paroled drunkards; that an aspirin is $50; that she walked 20km in the snow just to send an email; that airport security thugs require $900 pocket money" and so on.... Who is to blame then?

Quote:
those who believe & are scammed, they call them idiots or suckers; those who don't want to loose anymore are called "control freaks"...can we spot a trend?


Smart guys are never scammed because they don't believe in aspirin for 50$, visas issued by aunts and love at first email. May be you are not smart enough, Ham?


Posted by: ElenaK

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham

If you ask ME there will NEVER be anything joint.




I cannot believe that you are going to get married! With the attitude like that??????? I hope this lucky one is not come from FSU. Marriage is a joint partnership; only if you are not going to take advantage of this person.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaK
I cannot believe that you are going to get married! With the attitude like that??????? I hope this lucky one is not come from FSU. Marriage is a joint partnership; only if you are not going to take advantage of this person.


Maybe he is one of those controling and abusive American men.


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
Maybe he is one of those controling and abusive American men.



Don't think so... Looks like he has nobody to control and abuse


Posted by: EasyTarget

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaK
I didn’t hear about domestic abuse when I met my husband and with his kind and sweet temper he couldn’t hurt a fly. I know six Russian/Ukrainian women from MN only who went through different type of “husband” abuse. If it is not common what is it?

ElenaK. You definitely hit a nerve with people on the forum. It is just that the word abuse has dozens of meanings in English grammar. Luckily there is a very clear legal definition.

It is a very emotional subject because no sane person wants a wife (no matter what country she is from) to suffer abuse.

But like you said, your husband doesn't abuse you, does he? I am not talking about disagreements, difference of opinions, etc... So not ALL men are terrible. :-)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaK

He enjoys his control, taking charge of everything. You cannot opinion you voice or otherwise your honey can slam the door and leave you for a few days or weeks with an empty refrigerator and no money. He is very sweet and loving, especially on public, until you start talking about a joint bank account or that your tooth is hearting second month already and you need to do something about it, then your husband suddenly gets upset and don’t speak with you a few days. When you finally got to the point when you realized that it is not a relationship that you dreamt about,

Of course no one the forum really knows what is happening. If the situation is as you describe, it is not a good situation for the woman, and she is be treated unfairly.

I don't think she needs to go to the police but she does need some help. She needs to talk with her husband expressing her concerns. And most likely they need to get some marriage counseling.

And maybe it is a bad marriage, and they are not meant for each other. The complications and stresses of moving to a new country are too much for her. And the stress of having to 100% support a wife is too much for him. It is unfortunate but you can not always predict or for see these things.

Six couples in MN are having problems...of course I don't know the nature of the problems, but I am wondering if they are normal problems of married couples; that because of the cultural and language barriers, the problems are magnified 20 times.

Just my opinion.


Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
It actually means that such issues as her pocket money, training courses ( if needed) should be dicussed previously not to cause family rows. If she knows that she will get her English courses and some money to buy stuff without consulting her husband first she will be quite happy with her life and not driven by independence idea too much. It's not the money question, btw, it's all about attitude


Seaveiw! It is more than just attitude. Of course all finances,plans,expectations,etc. should be discussed long before an engagement, much less a visa or marriage. Education can be a very expensive proposition for a sponsor. Many people can not afford to send their children to the university they want to attend...just as in Russia.

It took me nearly a month to convince my wife I was not a millionaire and that we had to live within our means. There was a bit of a row in the beginning because she knew we had money, why couldn't we spend it. One thing most Russian women do not understand is how an American is finacially responsible. To protect ones future here one must save for retirement.

I see many people, myself included in the begining of a relationship where the limits of that pocket money are pushed to the point where an end has to come. Call it testing the waters if you may...but never call me greedy after I probably spend more on you than you saw in your entire lifetime(not to mention the cost of meeting,etc.)!


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Seaveiw! It is more than just attitude. Of course all finances,plans,expectations,etc. should be discussed long before an engagement, much less a visa or marriage. Education can be a very expensive proposition for a sponsor. Many people can not afford to send their children to the university they want to attend...just as in Russia.


Guys, forget about a university, pleeaase.... I described one situation which is not typical . BUT it would be great if you could send your wife (fiance) to attend English lessons or some training to adapt her skills to local requirements.

Quote:
It took me nearly a month to convince my wife I was not a millionaire and that we had to live within our means


It didin't take you long

Quote:
One thing most Russian women do not understand is how an American is finacially responsible. To protect ones future here one must save for retirement.


True.

Quote:
I see many people, myself included in the begining of a relationship where the limits of that pocket money are pushed to the point where an end has to come.


When a kid has 500 roubles to go to the cinema and MacDonalds, he or she is absolutely happy and "independent". He can even save 100 roubles and buy a DVD. Nobody wants you, guys, to give your Russian gf $5000 per month, no. She just needs something to make her feel a bit independent. it helps .

Quote:
Call it testing the waters if you may...but never call me greedy after I probably spend more on you than you saw in your entire lifetime(not to mention the cost of meeting,etc.)!


hahahaaha in my entire lifetime hahahaha It's not about me, but I must admit that this comment makes sense in many cases


Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
It's not about me, but I must admit that this comment makes sense in many cases


Are you sure?


Posted by: ham

Quote:
What is an "american dream", btw?


Dusty Rhodes

Quote:
She does not describe him as a sadist. She describes him as a domineering type of a person. It's not the same.


whatever mr. Clinton

Quote:
Taking into consideration the number of visas in my passport I can definitely be called a visa queen


Hmmm
let me guess...
Cyprus...Israel...Turkey...Greece...Switzerland?
Many jobs for FSUWs there i heard.



Quote:
As for my English... well, it's anyway much better than your Russian


very likely...learn French, Italian and German first, then let's make a comparison.


Quote:
Looks like Ham really believed that "russian men are all abusive, paroled drunkards; that an aspirin is $50; that she walked 20km in the snow just to send an email; that airport security thugs require $900 pocket money" and so on.... Who is to blame then?


I never believed any of the above, but according to antiscam sites, many of you FSU fairies love to write about that, it seems...

Quote:
Smart guys are never scammed because they don't believe in aspirin for 50$, visas issued by aunts and love at first email. May be you are not smart enough, Ham?


While i never fell for the above, yes i believed once it'd be "just fair" to refund her internet correspondence fees and i thought it'd be nice of me to give her some money to meet me in Kiev and yes i once thought (within reason ) that if a person you want to establish a meaningful relationship with asks for help, providing help is the right answer. Yes, i did. I was a stupid person doing stupid things. I had her checked out: she was real, but a con person nonetheless. No, i was not smart: there is no smart way to get scammed i said. But as i said: believe the phonies and you'll be an ignorant dummy; laugh in their face and you'll be a control freak...

Quote:
Don't think so... Looks like he has nobody to control and abuse


Rumor has it that any dog who coughs up enough moolah to book a tour will be in bed with one of you rocket scientists of his choice the very night...is it true? Rumor has also that such rocket scientist might very likely propose the dog within ten days in most cases? Is it true?

Quote:
but never call me greedy after I probably spend more on you than you saw in your entire lifetime(not to mention the cost of meeting,etc.)!


men can bend over backwards but the coin will always have 2 sides: the loser & the visa queen; the control freak & cinderella; the sucker & the scammer, etc.

Quote:
I cannot believe that you are going to get married! With the attitude like that??????? I hope this lucky one is not come from FSU. Marriage is a joint partnership; only if you are not going to take advantage of this person.


think what you will, but this sucker/dummy/loser here closed up his shop and no longer "buys" sob stories. As well, no more chivalrons here.


Posted by: Spakoyna

Damn Ham! Just go after everybody! I think I see alotta smoke comin outta your teepee! I hope one day you will meet that special woman that will make it all worthwhile!


Posted by: Longfellow

Ham,
It is a shame that you come off like everyone sh*t in your stew... I think your thoughts and advice would be heard better if they weren't flung with so much anger.
I, for one, would get a lot more from what you say (because I think you have a valid opinion) if it were less lethal in intent, IMHO.
Maybe the idea is to just shoot everyone first, and sort out the guilty from the bodies later.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
Don't think so... Looks like he has nobody to control and abuse


Except for himself!


Posted by: GoingToRussia

I agree with Seaview on many of her opinions. Let's say I was going to mary the girl I'm currently dating and she is bringing her 20 year old son to the USA on a K-1 visa.

Their English is very good and they don't need classes. I would give her and her son so much spending money every week. I would also send her son to college because he is a great kid and he deserves it. I would get driving lessons for both of them and buy a car for them. I would also be very supportive and helpful with any job they pick. If she does not want to work, that is ok with me. I really don't think this is asking too much. We are going to be a family so let's have a happy one!


Posted by: Longfellow

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
I agree with Seaview on many of her opinions. Let's say I was going to mary the girl I'm currently dating and she is bringing her 20 year old son to the USA on a K-1 visa.

Their English is very good and they don't need classes. I would give her and her son so much spending money every week. I would also send her son to college because he is a great kid and he deserves it. I would get driving lessons for both of them and buy a car for them. I would also be very supportive and helpful with any job they pick. If she does not want to work, that is ok with me. I really don't think this is asking too much. We are going to be a family so let's have a happy one!
I want to bear your children!!! ROFL


Posted by: Longfellow

You know, it's ridiculous we've gotten so side-tracked from the point of the thread because someone wanted to make this a rant.

Just assuming the question is valid, how can we help?
I think great advice has been given.
I think the lady in question has more than enough options to make a choice about how to handle the situation.

I don't think RMP is specifically designed to help 'Western men seeking Eastern women'. This is not a MOB site.
Isn't it for the support of anyone who is dealing with issues of East/West relations? Anyone with questions, fears, doubts, concerns?
If we can share and support, we do. My experience is that (for the most part) it is done with considerable thought and tenderness to personal issues. This forum has an excellent group of caring, non-judgemental humans. I do not see much that suggest that abusiveness is common... but Ham (!), you have kinda pounded a nail in that coffin with your tirade.

Adult persons have the freedom to make choices as well as the obligation to live with or resolve the results of those choosings.

As I recently said to my lady, " We are people grown and responsible. No one else will live this life for us. So we must learn and choose and decide what is right for ourselves and family."

What else is there to this?
Not to baste someone in vitriol because of what we think is a bad choice, but just to lend a respectful, caring ear.
Am I mistaken in this?? Are my glasses too rosey for your taste?


Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfellow
Ham,
It is a shame that you come off like everyone sh*t in your stew... I think your thoughts and advice would be heard better if they weren't flung with so much anger.
I, for one, would get a lot more from what you say (because I think you have a valid opinion) if it were less lethal in intent, IMHO.
Maybe the idea is to just shoot everyone first, and sort out the guilty from the bodies later.



It is useless.... don't waste your time with Ham... he has some problems and will not change... it is best to ignore all that he says...

And I don't think he has one good thing to say at all...

To the ladies... put Ham in your ignore list and you will be more happy... Just a suggestion...


Posted by: AkMike

This thread has wandered way off track from the begining.
There is an old saying up here that pertains to this situation very nicely.

There are 3 sides to EVERY story!
#1 There is her side.
#2 There is his side
#3 there is the right side.
ElanaK has stated the womans side of it but the man's side is totally missing. The truth of the situation lays somewhere in between the 2 stories. As Spak said early on it sounds like she wants to go home because she's homesick. It takes time to adjust to a new living situation yet alone a new culture.
Any man that has taken time and spent $$$ for several trips over there to meet a woman isn't looking for a door mat to step on. There are enough of those alot closer and easier to get here.
Personally I take this story with a grain of salt!


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfellow
I want to bear your children!!! ROFL

OH OH ... he's one of those librial Californian fellas. He probably really lives in San Francisico!

Don't worry LF, you will be converted when you meet your RW.

Take care and good luck.


Posted by: inlove

Allright, guys. In the original posting the author of the thread does not ask you to provide an opinion about her friend. You don't know that woman, and don't know her true situation. The question was what should a russian woman do, if she wants to get out of the relationship and go home, while her spouse is uncooperative, and she has very little money. As much as you would like to pass on judgement here, it does not answer the original question.

Elena,
If there is no physical abuse, forget about the police. They are not going to help in this situation. You or your friend can contact a women's shelter in your area, and see if they can point you to the right direction to get a free legal advice. If the situation is desperate, they will take your friend and her child in to stay for some time, but generally conditions in those shelters are not very good. After all, it is not a hotel. The most valuable resource that they have is a network of free legal aid providers, connections to some foundations that might help with resources, etc.
In terms of getting money for the airfare to Russia, the best bet would be friends like you, and maybe churches. Really, there is no special organization I know of that provides for such thing. Maybe your friend can sell something in order to get money for the ticket. Anyway, talking to people at a local orthodox church (or whichever church is closer to your friend's heart) might help.

Good luck, and let us know how things are going with your friend.


Posted by: freebird

InLove, I think that is good advice, but I would also suggest that she should talk to some other Russian/American women, she & her husband might be able to understand each other better, if this is a problem with poor communication and unreal expectations (on both sides). Elena didn't say where her friend was, but she mentioned MN. If so, I know a few Russian women who live there and might be able to help out or give some advice.


Posted by: Longfellow

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
OH OH ... he's one of those librial Californian fellas. He probably really lives in San Francisico!

Don't worry LF, you will be converted when you meet your RW.

Take care and good luck.
No, it's just your indomitable masculinty has swayed me! You hunka-hunka burning love!


Posted by: skinsfan

I hesitated responding to this thread because of my recent situation. If this woman was truly mistreated, she should receive some help, but none of us really know the whole story. for myself, if it was not for some good advice from people on this forum, and for three very courageous Russian women who came to my aide, i would have been toast !! as i said before, i hope that my situation was unique....but i truly now am skeptical of this DV charge from women from another country. i am now very aware that women that have the green card as their goal are well versed in American laws.

I have received an education from my experience, and also from the three Russian women who have suffered much for coming to my aide. There are good and bad people..that is simply the facts of life... as for me, i feel blessed for discovering real friends, who just happen to be Russian.

To all, there are scammers, but there are also wonderful women out there, simply be careful in your choices.


Posted by: ham

Quote:
It is a shame that you come off like everyone sh*t in your stew... I think your thoughts and advice would be heard better if they weren't flung with so much anger.


eh?
Anger over the internet?
You must be kidding?
But since they told me so already, i used 65 emoticons to mean i am just sarcastic , but hell...it doesn't fit the "preferred" image of myself some love to have, who'd better mum the word and look in a mirror sometimes.
Or do i am "jealous" again...
Of what please, this time?

Quote:
because someone wanted to make this a rant.


and the rant was the line about slamming doors, aching teeth & empty fridges, right?

Quote:
I do not see much that suggest that abusiveness is common... but Ham (!), you have kinda pounded a nail in that coffin with your tirade.


I don't think so either and INS studies i read don't either as well. But as i say, most FSUWs see us (ALL of us, including loons who play the chivalron online) as control freaks or losers or both, perhaps because we won't sign for a joint bank account...

Quote:
It is useless.... don't waste your time with Ham... he has some problems and will not change... it is best to ignore all that he says...


why do i am not on YOUR ignore list?
Hey! It all started a couple of years ago with this guy when i questioned some assertions of his...since then he has an axe to grind with me, but hey! I'm THE angry one, right? Psst! I can dig that old post out for yah!

Quote:
Except for himself!


are you the guy who had...ehm..."problems" in a relationship not so long ago , or am i talking about the wrong person?
If you are that guy, please consider looking in the mirror sometimes instead of comparing yourself favorably to the mental image you have of some internet alias (=me).
I understand that you (think you ) are just perfect and that i am all flaws, but the mirror will help there.

Quote:
There are 3 sides to EVERY story!


EXACTLY!

Quote:
I hesitated responding to this thread because of my recent situation. If this woman was truly mistreated, she should receive some help, but none of us really know the whole story. for myself, if it was not for some good advice from people on this forum, and for three very courageous Russian women who came to my aide, i would have been toast !! as i said before, i hope that my situation was unique....but i truly now am skeptical of this DV charge from women from another country. i am now very aware that women that have the green card as their goal are well versed in American laws.


Well, i think here another such story might be in the making. Some want to make it appear as (another ) "ham the bad harasses cinderella and sir Gawain "...well, too bad for the real man who'll have to live through this, because predators are relentless and remorseless. You sound like a decent meek fellow, but apparently predators don't make differences between you, me, Barney, Rufus and all those who play sir Gawain online...



Posted by: j_c

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
eh?
Anger over the internet?
You must be kidding?
But since they told me so already, i used 65 emoticons to mean i am just sarcastic , but hell...it doesn't fit the "preferred" image of myself some love to have, who'd better mum the word and look in a mirror sometimes.
Or do i am "jealous" again...
Of what please, this time?



and the rant was the line about slamming doors, aching teeth & empty fridges, right?



I don't think so either and INS studies i read don't either as well. But as i say, most FSUWs see us (ALL of us, including loons who play the chivalron online) as control freaks or losers or both, perhaps because we won't sign for a joint bank account...



why do i am not on YOUR ignore list?
Hey! It all started a couple of years ago with this guy when i questioned some assertions of his...since then he has an axe to grind with me, but hey! I'm THE angry one, right? Psst! I can dig that old post out for yah!



are you the guy who had...ehm..."problems" in a relationship not so long ago , or am i talking about the wrong person?
If you are that guy, please consider looking in the mirror sometimes instead of comparing yourself favorably to the mental image you have of some internet alias (=me).
I understand that you (think you ) are just perfect and that i am all flaws, but the mirror will help there.



EXACTLY!



Well, i think here another such story might be in the making. Some want to make it appear as (another ) "ham the bad harasses cinderella and sir Gawain "...well, too bad for the real man who'll have to live through this, because predators are relentless and remorseless. You sound like a decent meek fellow, but apparently predators don't make differences between you, me, Barney, Rufus and all those who play sir Gawain online...


Just read all this thread and cannot believe whats being said. Just one question to ham , you been drinking or you like this all the time?

JC


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by j_c
Just read all this thread and cannot believe whats being said. Just one question to ham , you been drinking or you like this all the time?

JC


Only for the last 800 odd posts, before that he was always a lot more negative


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Hmmm
let me guess...
Cyprus...Israel...Turkey...Greece...Switzerland?
Many jobs for FSUWs there i heard.


Switzerland, Norway, Sweeden, France, Austria, Germany ( five years when a kid plus tourist trips), the UK (many times plus current valid business invitation visa) and many other destinations. And, yes, I am going to Greece in September. And, unfortunately, I have never been to Turkey, Cyprus, Israel. Hope to get there some day. Thanks for the idea, Ham

Quote:
very likely...learn French, Italian and German first, then let's make a comparison.


Great respect, Ham, if you speak French, Italian and German Very uncommon for a native English speaker. I could speak a decent German about 10 years ago. Cannot communicate freely now, sorry

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yes i believed once it'd be "just fair" to refund her internet correspondence fees and i thought it'd be nice of me to give her some money to meet me in Kiev and yes i once thought (within reason ) that if a person you want to establish a meaningful relationship with asks for help, providing help is the right answer. Yes, i did. I was a stupid person doing stupid things.


Sorry to hear that, but nearly all guys pay for meetings, refund internet correspondence and telephone bills, bring presents. What's wrong about it? She changed her mind and decided not to marry you? But it happens to everybody from time to time no matter if she is from FSU or USA... I really don't understand your bitterness and spite. Just forget it and enjoy life.

Quote:
men can bend over backwards but the coin will always have 2 sides: the loser & the visa queen; the control freak & cinderella; the sucker & the scammer, etc.


No other options? Sounds hopeless.


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
To the ladies... put Ham in your ignore list and you will be more happy... Just a suggestion...


Why?

he is the most entertaining person on the board.

Extreme opinions attract attention, heat up discussions and increase traffic


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
Are you sure?



yep


Posted by: Longfellow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismc
Only for the last 800 odd posts, before that he was always a lot more negative
ROFL!
Yes, nothing like the man who digs his own grave (plenty of little pictures on the headstone to show he had character). It seems we all insult Ham, and he is 'courageous' enough to constantly point out and disspell our myth.
Ham-- if enough people say you look like a horse, invest in hay!


Posted by: Longfellow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
Why?

he is the most entertaining person on the board.

Extreme opinions attract attention, heat up discussions and increase traffic
Seaview,
You are an incorrigible, 'never back down' lady. You stir the fire and send hot ashes flying...
I like that in a person of substance!


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Ham,

You catch more bees with honey not vinigar. Change your personality and enjoy life more. You might make a friend or 2 also because I don't see any here.

No we are not all perfect but some people think they are. I admit I am not perfect and have much to learn in this life but I can forgive and forget and move on with my life. Life is to short to go around with a chip on your shoulder. You should be thankful for life and enjoy it everyday.