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age and respect
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Posted by: David N.

I hope this is good place to put this idea or observation of mine . While on the plane back to the us , I was talking with a fellow who went to russia in search of a bride , he was in his 40's ( I'am 55 ) so it was with great interest to me when he said he wanted to find a bride in her early 20's , his reason so he could train her . I found this to be to shallow for me and an insult to any meaningful relationship at all . Yes we did discuss this , and I'am sure he is not alone in his thinking as many other men must think the same . What does this say for amercian men , trophy hunters , is this how we are viewed .
Even womens adds state from 30-50 , or age is not important , really ?? , I find that hard to belive , yes I understand the economics of russian life , and wanting something better , this fellow on the plane was shocked at the way , the women in russia would want to go to a 5 star restuarant , or would like to have a gift from him , I told him if he walked by a window everyday and could only look in and dream of these things , how would he feel . If you must know the truth , I had expected more from a doctor nor did this stop me from giving him a lesson in manners and yes we now e-mail each other , so all is not lost .
I guess it all boils down to respect , while I belive there can be love at any age , I find the motive suspect when the age difference is greater than twice . And that to me falls under the heading of a scam , if russian women see us as such , I know there are reasons too , but some of us are more interested in finding that one special person , and it does not matter what colour or part of the world they are from . With the internet , for me it could of been the woman next door , in this case it was a woman from russia .
In closing , I do wish all people well in their search for love , as this is what life is all about , sharing .

Posted by: Arnold

Hello David,

well spoken, however, I am afraid this guy's intend in regard to having contact with you simply is, to learn from a "nice guy" like yourself, how to catch/scam an unsuspecting woman/victim into marriage/slavery.

I would not give him any pointers! He already told you that he is a slave driver, and he is a doctor, an educated individual! Do you honestly believe, that you can teach him at his age to walk the path of the righteous man?

If you leave him be, crued and unsophisticated as he is, you will ensure that his prey's internal scam alert will go off when he moves in for the kill.

We cannot change people, people only can change themselves, ergo if he was really interested in changing his personality, he would not need you. And please, don't believe he will not drop you like a hot potato once he learned all you have to offer.

I don't care if he is a doctor, that means nothing to me. It does not make him special or better than an average Joe. From what you said about him he sounds like a sociopath, and my recommendation to you is to stay away from him.

If you don't want to do it for your own peace of mind, then do it for the women! The way he is right now, they can see his true character from a mile away. Leave it at that for their sake.

Best wishes, Arnold

Posted by: David N.

I agree with you Arnold , he is on his own , and he was that way when I meet him at the airport .
In regards to advice , almost never do I offer , I know so little , every book I read tells me this is true . If his thoughts lead him to the path of " Malleus Maleficarum " , then it is without my help .
I have heard this from many men , and not about RW's either , just about women in general , what are they to bark when they bring the paper in , it is utterly amazing to me the mind set , it is a curse that has plagued human kind these last 2000 years , how soon we forget the balance of the Ying and the Yang . But I can be futher depressed , some one gave me a " Philosophical Biography of Nietzsche " for x-mas , there must be a joke in there somewhere ?? .
Ok Arnold I have to ask , a stand up comedian , and you live in your own little part of hell , let me guess , would you be the new governor of california ? .
David

Posted by: Arnold

Hello David,

look it was not very smart of me to use my real name as my username.... I thought nobody would catch on, just do me a favor and don't tell Maria and the kids that I am looking for a Russian woman!

If you want to read something amusing, try "Forgotten Fatherland". It's about Nietzsches sister. Sorry, I don't know the ISBN, but you can probably find it on Amazon.com.

I think, that it is funny that so many Americans are now looking for a Russian wife, considering that not to long ago, we were afraid of infiltration by Russian "sleepers".

Perhaps, the real reason is that these woman are primarily caucasion, and the stigma is bearable as long as these women just look pretty and fullfill their domestic chores.

A lot of men talk about the women negatively, and that "buh-huh" they were scammed out of a few bucks. But how can you be absolutely sure that the women who go the full nine yards are not a lot more skillfull scammers?

They know, that if they don't touch the monies send to them, the men in turn assume that these women are not after their money.
Well, why steal the milk, if you can have the whole cow?

What I am trying to say here is, if they are to stupid to know, whom they can send money, then how do they know that once they find their "honey", that she is not a better scam artist?

Because again to pretend, that these women do not make a calculated decision that they want to escape their ecconomic realities by placing ads with marriage agencies is just plain naive.

I would do it if I had to live there, because what's the difference if you fall in love with a Russian man or an American man, nothing. All men are jerks, but women somehow can find it in their hearts to love us anyway. Who knows why?

If men put as much effort into wooing the women in their own countries as they do with exotic women, they might be surprised how many of them would drop the "*****" attitude.

From my point of view, it does not matter what country the woman lives in that any man falls in love with, but please don't go around and trash the women in your own country. It just makes you look suspect, like there is something wrong with you not the women, as most claim.

It takes two to tango! Sorry, David for venting, but the double standard on this and other boards like this really is starting to piss me off.

Best wishes, Arnold

Posted by: Woody

Arnold,

where ever you get a group of like minded individuals, like this forum, there is going to be discussion, analysis and focusing of opinion. It is only natural that in attempts to answer the question "Why Russian?" many look to what is closest at hand, their own countrymen or women, and use their failings as part of a defence or explanation. This defence may have good foundation, based on personal experience, but I agree that it is wrong to use it to categorise and stereotype.
With the development of the internet as a tool for communication the world is a smaller place. Where up to the end of the 80's the place to meet was your local neighbourhood club or coffee bar, now for a very small proportion of the population the internet means a little more than a place to buy books and send email to your mate living in the next town or village.

I would not get too upset about all that is written here. Right or wrong, all are entitled to their opinion.

Clive

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally posted by Arnold

Perhaps, the real reason is that these woman are primarily caucasion, and the stigma is bearable as long as these women just look pretty and fullfill their domestic chores.

From my point of view, it does not matter what country the woman lives in that any man falls in love with, but please don't go around and trash the women in your own country. It just makes you look suspect, like there is something wrong with you not the women, as most claim.

It takes two to tango! Sorry, David for venting, but the double standard on this and other boards like this really is starting to piss me off.

Best wishes, Arnold

Hello Everyone!

I agree with you Arnold (and sorry if there were any misunderstandings before)!!!!

Yes, this is a problem with many men indeed. I don't complain about AW in general. I think the real problem is with our society as a whole - men and women. People don't know what love and respect are any more.

I actually didn't start out purposely looking for RW, it was just coincidental.

It is a shame that many men view women as subservient as if they need to be (or could be) trained.

It is very suspect when someone talks this way. I think you did what was right by taking the higher ground. Many people would just listen to him and not have said anything or pointed out the flaws in his thinking.

This is also a problem with our society, people are so afraid to get involved or to voice their opinion. Too much political correctness and too much interefence by government agencies (e.g.- try disciplining your kids).

Posted by: Michael Blue

I hesitate to enter this discussion, so I'll givemy $.02, ask your opinion of it, and step away.

I'm certain there are women in this country who are more romantic than I have come across here, and there must be self-centered women in Russia as well, but the ratio of seriously committed vs. self-centered women seems to be lower here than there.
Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe it depends on where in the US you live and look for a mate, but I have been unable to find a woman here who has the traditional values I have regarding relationships. This seems to be the normal for RW however, to look for a mate who will love and support her, and whom she can place her love in as well.
It infuriates me to hear people talk about "training" RW, or dominating someone...I would much rather be with someone who was willing to be an equal partner 99.9% of the time, but allow me the very rare occasion to be that "head of household" on a certain issue.
These traditional values, and other cultural differences between RW and AW are the reason I'm looking globally, but with an eye towards the FSU.

Is this really wrong of me?

----

As for the age difference; I'm 31, and I would be very hesitant of dating anyone younger than about 22, but it really depends on the individual, her level of maturity, and her willingness/ability to be in a serious relationship. Everyone is different, and their individuality simply must be a factor.

Posted by: Jim

Michael Blue...I agree with you totally..

And the poor guy who thinks we will train or control someone? Na PaRuski...Idiota!

Relationships work when there is mutual admiration and respect..regardless of culture. Relationships that work over the long haul are ones where these two things are constantly nurtured. Other posters I agree with in that, in our American society, maybe our gender role definitions have become a little screwed up and untraditional, thus the fabric of our society slowly unweaves.. And this is complicated further by the fact that nowadays you don't marry your neighbor, or the person who grew up on the same street as you, and you never liked bars...so if the internet provides a communication medium, the same character traits will still determine the outcome most likely...traits such as honesty, integrity, respect, charm, the attractiveness of your soul adn your personality... Then, of course you'll meet and explore if there are common interests and acceptible habits... All relationships take work.

I would not be surprised if that one guy is back on here in weeks or months bashing Russian Women because she left him or turned on him out of resentment for lack of respect. Maybe he does not understand the pride of their culture which makes them strong and wonderful. Or women in general... There's my two cent's worth.

I am lucky. I think I have the best one. Now if the government will just get on with it.... They are delaying destiny!

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Quote:

Originally posted by David N.
I hope this is good place to put this idea or observation of mine . While on the plane back to the us , I was talking with a fellow who went to russia in search of a bride , he was in his 40's ( I'am 55 ) so it was with great interest to me when he said he wanted to find a bride in her early 20's , his reason so he could train her . I found this to be to shallow for me and an insult to any meaningful relationship at all . Yes we did discuss this , and I'am sure he is not alone in his thinking as many other men must think the same . What does this say for amercian men , trophy hunters , is this how we are viewed .
Even womens adds state from 30-50 , or age is not important , really ?? , I find that hard to belive , yes I understand the economics of russian life , and wanting something better , this fellow on the plane was shocked at the way , the women in russia would want to go to a 5 star restuarant , or would like to have a gift from him , I told him if he walked by a window everyday and could only look in and dream of these things , how would he feel . If you must know the truth , I had expected more from a doctor nor did this stop me from giving him a lesson in manners and yes we now e-mail each other , so all is not lost .
I guess it all boils down to respect , while I belive there can be love at any age , I find the motive suspect when the age difference is greater than twice . And that to me falls under the heading of a scam , if russian women see us as such , I know there are reasons too , but some of us are more interested in finding that one special person , and it does not matter what colour or part of the world they are from . With the internet , for me it could of been the woman next door , in this case it was a woman from russia .
In closing , I do wish all people well in their search for love , as this is what life is all about , sharing .

In my view, stage of life is FAR more relavent than chronoligical age. And by the way, it doesnt just cut older man with younger woman. For example. Let us assume a man age 45 has 2 or 3 young children ranging from ages 5-9 years. That 45 year old man may well find he is not that attractive to a woman his own age based upon the fact that a 40 something woman is done raising children! A lot of women in there early mid 40's are not that interested in going back to raising children again.

If a man in his 40's is seeking a 22 or 23 year old wife and they both dont have children then stage of life will again be the catalyst for problems. The 22-23 year old girl is very likely into going out, partying and dancing the night away. The 40's something man is beyond that part of life and is likely seeking a more stable lifestyle. This of course is the grounds for majory marital issues.

I see absolutely no problem with a man in his 40's marrying a woman in her 20's PROVIDED that they are at similar stages of life. In this case the only commonality (to reduce the chronological difference) is child rearing AND the children probably need to be at or close to the same ages. IE a 40's man with late teens isnt at the same stage of life as a woman with a 5-9 year old child. Where you have commonality is when both partners have children roughly the same age. IMHO this is CRITICAL becuase as adults, you are doing the SAME THINGS, dealing with the SAME issues. This makes the chronological age difference much less important.

Just my view for what its worth..... or not worth

Posted by: Donna_pedro

he said he wanted to find a bride in her early 20's , his reason so he could train her .

This is so typical. In another thread on this board one of the members says that "one needs to look for shy girls". I dont mean anything offensive against this person, but It really rubbed me wrong. This logycal "chain" is very clear to me - shy-quiet - agreeable-submissive - easily managable. As I have posted in that threat, one of my internet opponents (on another forum) who is married to a girl 20 something years younger then himself has proclaimed that the best russian women dont speak english and dont live in a big city (moscow). These are the pieces of the same chain for me. As far as respect...I have a very "complicated (to put it mildly) relationship with my mom. And my husband always points out that I tolerate from her something that I would never tolerate from him. And I tell him - my mom is an old woman, we are no equal, I am supposed to respect her age, but you are equal to me and I am not going to take any bs from you. I was trained to respect someone who can theoretically be my parent. And if I was married to a person 20 years me older that is what would happen - I would respect his "old" years. He would have an advantage of using his life experience against my judgement and there would be no equality in this relationship. In order to be married to someone much younger then yourself, both parties are supposed to have strong personalities, be wise and mature and certainly a woman should not come from a desperate economic environment. Well, who of us would not think this way of himself? Unfortunately that is how a lot of such relationships end up - a man is "training" a woman the way he sees fit . Men enjoy challenging projects like "raise yourself a wify"...

Posted by: ASoulmate4U

I agree with all that was said here.

And anyone that thinks they can train a woman, good luck !!!!!!!

Whats the saying ? "A man needs a wife to be complete and once he is married he is finished ?" Something like that. I know it was true for me. I was a done deal ;-)

Posted by: searcher

Hi,

Welcome to the forum!

This is an old thread but interesting still....

Well, I think many people need to take a good look at themselves and ask why they are looking for a wife/husband.

I do think there are problems with men and women in many western countries. Some may argue that it is a problem with women but look at the man mentioned at the beginning of this thread, he wants to "train" a woman.....

Excuse me but what kind of $6!t is that!!!!!

Is he looking for a daughter or a wife?????

Yet, there many men with flawed thinking looking for a "wife" (whatever their definition of a wife might be).

Certainly those of use here have chosen not to limit ourselves to our geographical boundaries and there may be some nice things about looking in other countries, perhaps because of the different enviroment, but to think that women need training or need to be rescued is absured.

Sure, you can find many people who meet certain stereotypes but people all have the same desires.

Once a woman becomes tired of his intent to control her then she will leave him.

She is a human, not a dog to be trained to do his tricks!

Posted by: greatgambino

Training a wife might be like training a dog only if the same dependent-codependent relationship existed. (however this guy will have a lot to learn when his wife becomes "American" and learns what her new rights are). I think we all do some form of "indocrtination" or "encouraged adaptive learning" to our mates so that we can exist peacefully and enjoyably together. In fact, I think the feminist movement, which many American women adopt in some measure, is no more than a training approach and notice to a man that old world traditions and habits will no longer be acceptable. Anyway, the guys choice of words indicates that he has a problem with respect for a woman.

I have a question regarding the issue of age wrt to myself. I am a 54 year financiall secure and intelligent male in exceptional health and would like to meet a woman for marriage and a family, ie I want more children. I have raised as a divorced single parent a son who is now 19 and in college. I became interested in RWs when I heard that they accept older men much better than American women. I am not looking for a beauty queen but a stable loving person. In fact, all these beautiful women on the websites I visit makes me suspicious that this whole concept may be a scam.

Can any one give me an idea if I stand a chance?

I am new to this board and to the idea of a RW wife. However, given some of the commentary I have heard both on the internet and from other sources I am interested in investigating this possibility more.

Posted by: Jill

Well, the short answer is yes. It will likely be easier for you to find a younger wife in the FSU than in the US. But I would stay away from anyone younger than your son

Posted by: greatgambino

Thanks for the reply, Jill. I take it you are a current resident of Russia and are doing ok.

Regarding my situation being older, what approach do you think I should take? I mean, should I go for one of this tours, which seem a little glitzy and geared to men seeking hot women. Or should I take a personal approach by email, penpal or going to Russia and connecting with a matchmaker agency? Are there any good ways you can suggest for me? I dont want a goldigger, as I am sure almost everyone here says, but I am not necessary looking for a hot looking woman and will take one with one small child if possible. My only demand is that they want to have further children and are willing to make the move to the US. How do most RWs who have repatriated to the US deal with the absence of their family? Are most who subscribe to this concept by definition more removed from a family tie than other RWs?

thanks for your input.

Posted by: Jill

Hi greatgambino,

Personally, I would advise against the tours--I think that there is a greater likelihood of meeting "working women" there.

The best thing to do is probably to go through an agency--there are many to choose from and some of the guys here can give you recommendations in terms of the agency's reputation.

Look through the profiles, write some letters, after a while make some phone calls, and when find one or two you like, plan a visit. You do have to be careful of golddiggers and scammers--so take your time and get to know the person. There are some red flags to look for--all described in various places on this site (I guess the visa scam is most common). Read the forum and you'll get plenty of information. And use your common sense.

In terms of being willing to move to the US--well, most women who join international marriage agencies understand that they will likely have to move to a foriegn country if they find a guy they want to marry. As for children--it's individual and that's something you will find out about in your correspondance. Be up front about these things if they are important to you.

Good luck!

By the way, the Russian Meeting Place does have some women's profiles--so your search can begin right here

Posted by: greatgambino

Thanks Jill for the advice.

I have heard regarding that RWs do not like beards on men. Is this true?

Do they dislike men with body hair as well?

thanks.

Posted by: Jill

I think that's pretty individual. I've actually never heard that....They do generally like good grooming, though.

Posted by: Jerico

Hey Gambino !!
Its nice to get another Sacramento guy around here

I think you make number 3 now hehe.
Anyway welcome to the forum
Jerry

Posted by: greatgambino

Hi Jerry. Great to see that a fellow Sacramentan is out here on the Boards. Are you considering a RW or are you already with one? If you would like to talk, I would really enjoy a phone conversation since you seem to be a senior here. My cell phone is 916-223-0440. thanks.