Documentry on History channal

Originally Posted by mistermopar

I just wached an interesting documentry on the History channal,it was called"Russia Land of Tsars".
It was 4 hours long and I think it was worth the watch.

It talked about all the Tsars right up to the end of the Romanovs in 1918.

Has anyone else seen this?

Randy

Originally Posted by ira156

Yes i did Randy...great show.
I think many people should watch this to know that every major change in Russian history ( good and bad) has come with a great deal of turmoil and hardship. It may help them put into perspective the massive achievement in only 15yrs in the road to democracy. Cheers Mate

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

I saw it when it first ran and thought it was awesome. The DVD set is available for purchase.

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=70894

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

I saw it when it first ran and thought it was awesome. The DVD set is available for purchase.

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=70894

Originally Posted by Ellen

Great arcivments in last 15 years? What's archivments? Can anybody explain me what do you mean when you mention this word?

Originally Posted by ira156

So were things better for you in 92 Ellen?

Originally Posted by Ellen

Things were better for me in 82

So your that is those "archivment" you are speaking about applied to Putin's ruling vs Elcin one? Or what?

Originally Posted by ira156

Well firstly the change from the USSR to Russia and the adoption from Communism to democracy. To change the whole political and social structure of the largest country on earth in a period of 15 yrs is (to me ) an amazing achievement.

Originally Posted by ira156

To go from 2250% inflation to less than 11%....to go from the first floating of the rubel at 114 per US$ up to 5000 per US$ to now 26........to go from a drop in GDP of 50% ( worse than the US in the great depression ) to a growth of 6.5% per annum...to have export trade up by 34% and imports down by 10%.......to have the information technology grow at an average 30-40% per annum......

Originally Posted by ira156

To have the fastest growing economy in the G8....better than France ...Great Britain...Italy...Germany...Canada ....Japan and even the US.
I personally see these things as great achievments....are there more improvements needed ...of course.....as with ALL countries. I obviously cant speak for all Russians Ellen but the ones i have feel for the first time they see that they have an oppotunity to make a better life for themselves. Cheers

Originally Posted by Ellen

I was too not going to debate "something: here with you I just wished to find out what "BETTER" you saw for ME, and better to WHAT days. ( from what I got you though did compare Putin vs Elcin. )

I also could post you a list of thing which became worse since soviet times for me personally ( and for many others as those things are the smae for everybody here. Also I could list you what I, my family, my friends, people who I worked with had to come through And I would wish to find out what's that "compensation" for those troubles we had to fight during those 15-20 last years.

As for your Nat and her friends than I bet property they own they got for free because it was built in soviet times and actually they owned that property in those times as well ( I doubt they could afford to buy "new" property not useing any resourses like another property got from soviet times) As for food in our shops well I agree there are no lines. But a cost of that is lost of so called "food independence " of Russia because Russian countryside is just "dead" and all that food was bought due to oil. How good is such achivment I have not idea.

Ps BTW IF you were RUSSIAN you would be PESSIMIST like any Russian - that's our national trade mark .

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

... meanwhile back at the ranch ...

Yes Randy, I saw this documentary a few months ago ... very interesting. I'm currently reading a book about The Great Nothern War between Sweden and Russia. In particular, a battle in the Ukraine city of Potava. The first war for Peter the Great in the early 1700s. St. Petersberg was oringinally farther north and west, near the Baltic Sea. His stategy for defeating the Swedes was amazing. I can understand why he was called Great!

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Ellen, can you really not see anything being better now than in Soviet times? I dont believe you.

Here is one example. My Russian professor at University was a translator for KGB. She smuggled herself and her husband in secret through Morocco to get here. They thought they were going to be killed at any moment.

Her replacement came here freely on a visa.

I guess it is better to have to climb the Berlin wall, get your books burned, share an apartment with two other families, or get sent to the slave labor camps at Magadan because you are an intellectual. That all sounds better to me. But of course, I don't get free borscht and bread.


The only Russians I have found who don't think things are better, and pine away for the good old days of communism are those who don't want to work. People wanting a free ride and a handout love communism.

Originally Posted by Ellen

Bye on that I have to run to work - 12 works hours I have to spent at my job for surviving in new realityt wait for me. See you later

Originally Posted by ira156

Hey Ellen...in your reply before you stated the hardships you have suffered in the past 15-20 years....that does take us back 5 years into Communist rule...so even you admit there were hardships then...the communist system was collapsing...thats why it changed.

Originally Posted by ira156

At almost the same time...in 2 different communist countries....there were 2 tanks...one man Yeltsin ( for all his faults) had the courage to defy it...and the Russian people supported him or there would have been no change....the other tank just ran over its people.

Originally Posted by ira156

Russia still has many problems to overcome...but from what i have learned of the Russian people i have met im sure they can do it. Cheers

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Ellen, thanks for your comments. I guess my perspective is different because you are young, and most of the Russians I know are older. They remember the things I speak of..not just read in a newspaper.

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

The things you see now that were absent in Soviet times like homeless people in the metro stations and streetwalking prostitutes could definitely be seen as a sign that things are worse now. And some things are definitely worse as far as the moralistic aspects of Russia.

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

We always see things from our own perspective. When I was broke it seemed like the whole world was broke. And when I was rich it seemed like money flowed for everyone. When I struggle, it looks like everyone is struggling. Maybe that is why you feel like times are hard for Russia.
I'm glad you post here because we learn so much from you.

Originally Posted by Seaview

I was a kid in 70s, we lived in Sverdlovsk, there was literally nothing to eat, shops were empty, long queues for everything. I remember it was impossible to buy meat, even if you had money to buy it.
I do think 70s and early 80s ("proper" Soviet times) were the worst nightmare for millions of people.

Originally Posted by Seaview

I don't understand what you are talking about. People do buy property, I have a lot of colleagues who bought appartmens and pay mortgage. As for food, customers prefer stuff "made in Russia". Even foreign companies try to use fake Russian brands to sell their goods. Have you seen Doyarushka butter in our supermarkets? It's all made in Finland but it's written in a very small print otherwise they won't sell it. It's all because the Russians prefer to buy food produced locally and there are tons and tons of such food everywhere.

Originally Posted by Seaview

I am a Russian and I am not a pessimist at all. It's probably your personal trade mark.

Originally Posted by mistermopar

Hi Ellen,I have been reading every thing from the begining.
I do enjoy your view and some of the things you have to say are interesting.
I have knowen many Russian people and none of them seem to be as negitive as you are about their country.
I also do not think it is polite to be saying nasty things about other people,
I think this was uncalled for.
I am sure you can tell your point of view with out the name calling.
Randy

Originally Posted by Ellen

I didn;t get what was "name calling" as he claimed by himself he had no food to eat. It was irony or sarcasm if you wish.
But I agree with you it was VERY nasty thing of him to say that 70s - 80s were nightmare to millions people in the USSR

And if you didn;t get it then I'm negative NOT about my COUNTRY ( your can't find a persone who would be "more patriot" than I'm, trust me TW I'm not going to run away abroad like many those who see "better" in new times do that)
What I'm negative about is deRmocratic chage happened in my country during last 20 years ( which YOU see lke changes to better)

Good night I'm off to bed to see nice dreams about communist future of Russia. I wi you the same.

Originally Posted by mistermopar

Hummm,I was just thinking......Randy the Great,sounds pretty good..LOL

Randy

Originally Posted by Seaview

A girl, actually I was also a happy soviet child - children are happy everywhere - but I remember quite well when my Mum was pregnant (waiting for my sister) Dad could not buy meat anywhere in the area. And it was a big industrial town.



Me and loads of my friends. As for salary, if an employer needs you they won't argue with you about your salary. THey will just give it to you. Moscow is a crazy place. Professionals in all spheres are in great demand.




I did without mortgage but it was in 2003. Now prices are much higher but as interest rate went down to 7% , it's becoming more nad more affordable.



Didn't get this passage, anyway, but if meat imported from Australia is cheaper and better I am not bothered. It's like with Japanese cars - they flooded international markets because they are just good. It's competition.




I cannot change you mindset, Ellen, but you'd better try to do it yourself if you would like to see a happier world around you. The point is :everything around you is around YOU.

I appreciate modern Russia for the opportunities it gives to people. All my pessimistic memories refer to old days. I look through them from time to time to enjoy advantages of today's life.

Originally Posted by Seaview

A girl, actually I was also a happy soviet child - children are happy everywhere - but I remember quite well when my Mum was pregnant (waiting for my sister) Dad could not buy meat anywhere in the area. And it was a big industrial town.

Originally Posted by Seaview

Me and loads of my friends. As for salary, if an employer needs you they won't argue with you about your salary. THey will just give it to you. Moscow is a crazy place. Professionals in all spheres are in great demand.
I did without mortgage but it was in 2003. Now prices are much higher but as interest rate went down to 7% , it's becoming more nad more affordable.

Originally Posted by Seaview

Didn't get this passage, anyway, but if meat imported from Australia is cheaper and better I am not bothered. It's like with Japanese cars - they flooded international markets because they are just good. It's competition.

Originally Posted by Seaview

I cannot change you mindset, Ellen, but you'd better try to do it yourself if you would like to see a happier world around you. The point is :everything around you is around YOU.
I appreciate modern Russia for the opportunities it gives to people. All my pessimistic memories refer to old days. I look through them from time to time to enjoy advantages of today's life.

Originally Posted by ira156

Hey Seaview. I spoke to my Nat in Moscow this morning about this topic. Her opinion was that for older people the sence of stability is gone...but it has been replaced with opportunity that younger people appreciate.

Originally Posted by ira156

I think Ellen doesnt understand the concept of TRADE. If she was to ban all imports and stop selling oil and gas then i think Russia would be a very unpleasant place to be.

I wouldnt complain Australian meat is some of if not the best in the world...she should also try our cheeses and wines. Cheers

Originally Posted by Ellen

1. For older people it's not only sense of stability which is gone in new times It's also an opportunity for decent life is gone as well That's why those older people who are supposed to remember all those "awful" things some poster mentioned here because they are supposed to deal with them in former life and therefore to hate that former life do like former life better.

2. If opportunities for younger people were equal for ALL then I would appreciate them as well But sadly I can see a new generation of young people who have no opportunities because they were raised in REAL poverty ( нищета, but not just бедность Sorry my vocabulary gives me the same word for two different Russian words) It's those poor educated, desperated to get in legal way what other have - become too easy target for varicose fascist-minded organizations and street bands- new reality for present day Russia as well ( which somebody prefers not to see speaking about new opportunities they personaly got in new life)
( PS speaking about more food at market now It's new reality for Russian army that a huge ( in comparision to soviet times) amount of draftees has not enough body weight because of malnutrition and has to be fatten up before they would be able to serve. )

3. Every young man with such a "brilliant" opportunity now would eventually move into older group with misery pensions ( according to new rules), lot of sicknesses and astronomical prices for medical care and drugs. Good luck for them.




I think it's you ( but not Ellen) who can't get an idea that turning a country into appendix of developed countries for oil and other not-replaced recourses could NOT be seen like an achievement ( Remind you we speak about "achievements" of new Russia) exactly because one day that oil would be gone and Russia which has not too many another "achievements" would be VERY unpleasant place to be ( like it's now already for many who is not involved in that oil-gas business or in bank business which servers that oil money . Like economists say oli-gaz-etc based economy could give a job in oil sector and sectors connected with it only for 30% of Russian population now - others are just surplus unnecessary population.)
And I speak here not about ban of selling oil ( though it would be not bad to low its export saving our recourses for "better times" ( like Americans do that with their own oilfields) I speak about that it's necessary to develop something else except oil industry Till now I don’t see many achievements in THIS direction but only lost in comparison with even soviet times.

But I don't blame you for such non-understanding because Afterall it's not your own country and it's not your and your children future ( as well as it's not a future of your girls who are going to move from this place which is such "better" now)

Originally Posted by ira156

You are correct Ellen...you do need to develope other industires besides oil....thats where the opportunities lay for Russians. People here are on much higher wages than those in Russia...yet we can supply meat to you at a competative price because we have developed an efficient industry by having to compete both domesticaly and internationaly.

The problem with a state run system is there is no competition to increase efficiency. You say Japanese cars are inferior....then you are sadly misinformed...even Americans the largest consumers of cars will tell you otherwise...a lexus is as good as a bmw or mercedes.....and much better than any car produced here or in Russia.

I am interested in your opinion as far as cultural or personal differences between the new and old systems......but there is no way you can argue on an economic basis that the communist system compared...its the reason it collapsed in the first place.

Originally Posted by Ellen

1. I'm not against Japan cars at all, they are good and they are really archivment of Japane industry I meat that Russia like a store for used Japan's car in exchange of oil is NOT arichiment of Russia at all ( the same with your meat -which truth tell is lower quality for making good "kolbasa" just because it;s frosen staff)

2. There is no way you can prove me with numbers that what had been done in RUSSIAN economy during comminist times was less archivment for RUISSA than what Russia managed to archive in economy during last 20 years There WAS industrialisation made during soviet times and there were REAL archivments if you look back in time You can;t deny it. ( PS even oilfilds which are a sourse for Russian so called "well being" now WERE discovered and created during soviet but not present times. The same with majority of gas-line and electic lines.(and many other such things )

And here I am trying to get from you what ARE those new archivments you see in Russian economy now ( I don;t make comparison my country vs your developed countries. I try to make comparison what has been done under communists ruling in Russian economy vs new capitalistic rule)
All I can get till now was such doubtful archivment like Russian market flooded with production from abroad and inmprovments for life for tiny % of people who one or other way are connected with oil money.

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Ellen, most of the people who are unhappy in Russia think their country is all about oil.

Most of the optimistic people know it is not.

http://mosnews.com/money/2007/04/24...tsourcing.shtml

There is so much opportunity in Russia now it is incredible.

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

Randy,

I don't think people are interested in your documentary ... too bad ... it was very interesting.

GTR/GTM

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Ellen I could sit here for days posting industry after industry where a Russian can make great money. You will keep posting for me to "prove it". So I guess I bow out of this discussion.
If you want everything to be bad...it will be bad. I hope you never get a hold of the book "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill. Your belief system will burst into flames.
We wish you all the best Ellen.

Originally Posted by ira156

Hey Ellen. I can see you are a diehard communist and i am not going to change that....fair enough.
You cannot compare the communist economy with the one of today because the communist economy was not on the world market. I have given you the example of the Ruble and even our dollar before they were on the international market...the true value was true at all.

Originally Posted by ira156

If the social and economic times were so good...with a government that controlled the people then why did it change. The Industrial revolution was an achievement that can maybe only be compared to what is currently being achieved in China...no western goverment can boast such an achievement.

Originally Posted by ira156

I am sure you see this as a great thing and something which made your life better...but the 20 Million people that died to achieve it would probably not agree with you.

Originally Posted by ira156

My Nat works as an accountant in Moscow for a Russian company...she rents a nice appartment...she travells overseas once a year and visits Ulyanovsk at least 3 times a year. She can buy good food go to the theatre maybe once a month and go to a cafe maybe once a week. She is not in the oil industry and doesnt get payed in petro dollars...these are all things ahe couldnt do when she first started working...and she does remember NO MEAT...and food abscent from the shelves......maybe you were a privilaged party member who didnt have to face these things but she and her friends did.

Originally Posted by ira156

You can still enjoy the benifits of communism in countries like Cuba and Nth vietnam ...but they dont seem to be too happy there. Great idea but it didnt work im afraid Ellen. Cheers

Originally Posted by Ellen

PS For sure you have not access to Russian TV at all or you would have an idea where my pessimist goes from)

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

I have RTV, RTVi, and NTV. Ellen if one watches American television they will think this country is nothing but death and dying. Television is NOT reality!

I wish you all the best.

Originally Posted by Ellen

I remind you that I also live in this Russia relityt reality ( but not only watch TV) and I also lived in that soviet reality ( otherwise many of your girls)

I wish you to live in Russian on average russian salary - it would be the best your "argument"

Ps what's about my English grammar question?