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Antidate

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Posted by: Ronin_FM3

I've been reading through the "Antidate" website (a blacklist for men), and I saw some rather disturbing things. Such as married men going to FSU countries and presenting themselves as single. I guess they are one of the "sex tourist" variations.

It seems that dishonesty is very democratic. The offenders come from all over the world. Almost every country has had its' name dragged through the mud by these guys. It really bothered me to see this; I feel that we must labor under the suspicion that we too are "sex tourists", guilt by association so to speak.

So just as we must guard against scammers, these ladies have risks as well. If you can read Russian, it is an education of sorts (the site is all in Russian). It is a challenge to read because of the prevalence of slang in the posts; my Russian is pretty academic and literal. I haven't spent a tremendous amount of time in FSU countries to date, so my slang is not so good. Still, if you speak Russian well enough it is understandable.

It is interesting to see a such candid discussions of this subject (FSU women/foreign men) from the FSU womans' point of view.


Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin_FM3
I've been reading through the "Antidate" website (a blacklist for men), and I saw some rather disturbing things. Such as married men going to FSU countries and presenting themselves as single. I guess they are one of the "sex tourist" variations.


The U.S. Government did a study (there are also some done by privet groups) and the results were that 35% of all women and 40% of all men listed as single on dating sites are actually married. I do not know if this included international dating sites or just American sites…..but probably the results would be much the same.


Posted by: Ronin_FM3

Perhaps I should not be surprised at this...but I am!

Also, as I read through the Antidate site I notice that the site is like a general complaint site, and there is a high percentage of rather angry women there. Just in general angry and hostile. So, I don't know how much use this site will be in looking at things from the other side; the site seems to be a magnet for disgruntled people.


Posted by: davidg

the world is the world....


Posted by: Raspberry

** oops **


Posted by: Turboguy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin_FM3
the site seems to be a magnet for disgruntled people.

It would be nice if the magnet was a little stronger. At least with enough additonal power to keep them on the Anti-Date site instead of trolling through other sites causing problems.


Posted by: Ronin_FM3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
It would be nice if the magnet was a little stronger. At least with enough additonal power to keep them on the Anti-Date site instead of trolling through other sites causing problems.



LOL!!! That would be nice indeed! I like civility


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin_FM3
Perhaps I should not be surprised at this...but I am!

Also, as I read through the Antidate site I notice that the site is like a general complaint site, and there is a high percentage of rather angry women there. Just in general angry and hostile. So, I don't know how much use this site will be in looking at things from the other side; the site seems to be a magnet for disgruntled people.


That pretty much sums up the site. Two or three of the leaders of the site are reputed to be so ugly they couldn't get laid on a troop ship. Go figure. (My info comes from people who have met them face to face)


Posted by: Ronin_FM3

The name "Antidate" seems more fitting all the time.


Posted by: Turboguy

Anti-men would be even more fitting. Man haters of Russia would be a little too long.


Posted by: Zmejka

Guys, i'm the member of antidate and some other forums too and kindly suggest that you leave antidate and their women in peace
All that women posting about their bad experiences didn't come there to have fun. They came to worn others. It's only sad there're so many of them. But look at the other side of the coin - there're many members there who're happily married or in stable relationships (here i'm counting myself too who just talk on forum, discuss problems and don't hold a grudge against men. Hope you'll be the same


Posted by: Ronin_FM3

Really, I do not consider reading a website, learning about how others feel, and discussing it, to be out of bounds. I just looked at the site to see another point of view, and commented upon that which I read. What are their fears, concerns, hopes, etc.? I read the pages here to see such things, and I read them there also. It seems to be a good thing to consider what others think and feel, what they have learned and experienced.

I would not agree that such a thing constitutes "bothering", or not "leaving in peace".

I just want to see everyones' point of view

And, I am glad that you found your special person!


Posted by: Turboguy

Zmejka, I think American Men think they are the only ones who suffer abuses. I have heard some horror stories from the women too and they have to weed through Armchair romantics, Sex tourists, Scammers and lots more. They run into the same relationship problems we do but really often have less control of it.

I am glad the women have a place to go and discuss the problems they have and to warn and educate others so they don't fall into the same traps or problems with guys who really have no business taking advantage of the girls.

I particularly like the part of Anti Date that lists bad men. As long as it is done fairly and honestly I think it is a great thing.

I do think however that you have a few members that create a lot of bad feelings towards Anti-Date and do a lot of damage to the good the sight could do. Right now another forum seems to be having a major problem with them and I understand an anouncement is fortcoming shortly.

The truth of it is that most of the men involved in international dating are good people who mean well and hope to find a good wife. Most of the women are good women who are in good relationships or want to be and are looking for a good man and a happy life. We have some guys on the Men's forums that are not quite as well intended as I would like to see and I really don't have a lot of respect for them myself. I am glad they don't go and disrupt A-D and I would rather see the A-D gals posting positive and constructive things that help AM understand RW and create a postive atmosphere. We can make the world a better place if we work together. We can destroy the hopes of many if we don't. I agree there is a lot of good in Anti-Date. There is some bad too. It is the bad that we are talking about.


Posted by: Ronin_FM3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
Zmejka, I think American Men think they are the only ones who suffer abuses.



Well, this is definitely not true for me. It would seem to me that my original post here couldn't be more clear that I lament the occurrence of such behavior among men who contact women. Maybe it was misunderstood, I don't know.

That's why I posted this comment, to show that FSU women have to deal with dishonesty too.


What we're trying to do here, meet partners internationally, is hard enough as it is! It is a shame, a real shame, that we all must deal with this sort of thing. Women who must deal the with possibility that they will be suspected of being "scammers", men who must deal with the possibility that they will be suspected of being "sex tourists", etc.

As I said, I want to see all sides of this phenomenon of international relationships.


Posted by: Turboguy

I was not meaing to imply you felt that way Ronin. I know you are pretty savvy about the whole process and have seen both sides of the coin.

Some of it is natural. Just like our own broken foot will bother us a lot more than the broken foot of our neighbor across the street we do tend to be introspective sometimes.

There is a lot of false information out there that does not make our dreams easier to realize. I am talking about people and tv programs that dwell on Sex tourists, sex slaves and the like. People like a mission and newpapers and tv want to attract readers and viewers. Even our government with the IMBRA laws is saying we are a bunch of abusers when the real reality of it is that Domestic abuse among international marriages is 1/7th as common as among AM-AW marriages and even that is far less than occurs in Russia and Ukraine.

I guess what I am trying to say is the negativity hurts us all. If Anti-Date helps a woman avoid a bad guy that is great. I can't think of anything better. If it discourages a good woman from seeking happiness abroad when she really might be far happier here that that is a bad thing. I have visited the Anti-Date site but not for a long time. Of course with most of it being in Russian I can't really follow what is going on anyway. I hope we call can be a positive influence in helping others.


Posted by: Ronin_FM3

Yes, I think I see this phenomenon in society at large; the focus upon the negative, the search for a mission or crusade which always seem to be a negative thing.

The IMBRA laws are indeed noisome, and I have read much that tells me that the sponsors of the law want something which reaches much farther than it presently reaches. I truly dislike the implication that I am monster which needs policing. All of the newspaper stories and TV "reports" about sex tourists, "mail order brides", etc.

I, too, fear that such things only scare people away and confuse the issue. I know several guys who won't consider FSU women because they're convinced that they're all "scammers". And then there's the women who think I'm looking for a woman to "abuse". It makes me sick, really.

Sometimes it's really irksome to hear the "informed opinions" of reporters, etc., who know nothing about that of which they speak. And, of course, the people who listen to this and then know it all. Several times I have been preached at by people who know nothing at all about this subject, aside from the popular press. Now, I've spent quite a bit of time in Ukraine (though not as much in Russia), and speak the language. Yet, it's as if I'm the one who is ignorant! Sure, I have more to learn...but, that is life! And what I know is the result of first-hand experience, not the recycled opinion of someone who doesn't know much of anything anyway. Geez, the stories I could tell about this!


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
I particularly like the part of Anti Date that lists bad men. As long as it is done fairly and honestly I think it is a great thing.

The truth of it is that most of the men involved in international dating are good people who mean well


T/G: Point number 1) AD is not regulated or accountable to anyone nor are many scamm lists. For this reason I will always be completely against that sort of list. Anyone who gets a bit huffy because someone rejected them can and very often does retailiate by posting them on blacklists or scamm sites. That is just plain wrong. It has never effected me personally and never will, but without any supporting evidence it is wrong.

Point number 2) Who are you trying to kid? Or maybe your definition of good is very different from mine. The guys on these boards, most often are the better class of the guys going to the FSU, but they form only a minority. The major percentage of both men and women in this pursuit are waaaaaaaayyyy below that. This is NOT a pretty pool in which to swim for either men or women. Suggesting anything else is delusion.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
T/G: Point number 1) AD is not regulated or accountable to anyone nor are many scamm lists. For this reason I will always be completely against that sort of list. Anyone who gets a bit huffy because someone rejected them can and very often does retailiate by posting them on blacklists or scamm sites. That is just plain wrong. It has never effected me personally and never will, but without any supporting evidence it is wrong.

Point number 2) Who are you trying to kid? Or maybe your definition of good is very different from mine. The guys on these boards, most often are the better class of the guys going to the FSU, but they form only a minority. The major percentage of both men and women in this pursuit are waaaaaaaayyyy below that. This is NOT a pretty pool in which to swim for either men or women. Suggesting anything else is delusion.


Very true I/O. I think irrespective of the differences a lot of us have when it comes down to the cruxt of it the overwhealming majority of the guys here are honest and genuine.....who are willing to learn or at least look at things out of respect to the women they are seeking. MOST on the men on the sites you see are not this way inclined...and for that matter a good percentage of the women or Boris's,


Posted by: Turboguy

I/O, I agree with a big part of what you say. As far as the scam lists I think they are better in principal than in practice. The biggest problem is as you pointed out it is one person's word and sometimes they are cases of where someone was disappointed but not scammed.

There is a current thread over on another forum where a guy is contemplating putting a gal on scammer lists with no real proof that she is a scammer. It happens to be a gal I wrote to for a long time who said nothing in our correspondence to indicate she was a scammer.

I think the concept of information about sharing information about who is a scammer or bad person in some way is good but yes, it is just not done in an accurate way.

The other part I also agree in some ways and disagree in others. Personally, I don't think someones, phyical appearance or desirabilty to the opposite sex has anything to do with them being a good person. Good person and good catch are two different things.

I have met a lot of guys in the persuit. Most all have been good people. They were there looking for a good woman to build a happy life with. Yes, One I met was under 5 feet tall and probably shaped about like a basket ball. He also was very nice looking face wise had a great personality, very smart, pleasant etc. I would have to consider him one of the nicer people I have met in my life. He was in his early 30's. He probably does not have much luck dating American woman and many would not consider him a catch over the size issue. He came back from his trip pretty shattered becasue the women there would not have anything to do with him either. I have seen guys with a lot of physical problems but who were great guys. To me a good person has nothing to do with his age, his size, his attractiveness and the like. It has to do with his heart and his motives. Good person and good catch are two differernt things. If someone is not a good catch and a gal from there likes him that is her business and his business.


Posted by: I/O

T/G: Like I said, yours and my definition of good might be very different. I was not and did not even hint at the physical aspects of some of the people involved in this pursuit. In fact some of the very worst I have seen would fit the perception of being "Socially superior" in many locations. Doesn't stop them being plain grubs as people. Germans heading the list. Some of my countrymen not far behind. Just scum.

I am not just talking about the people who hang hopefully around the bars. Thailand is another favourite haunt for this crew. Hmmm I won't go there because some of what I have seen just makes me sick.

Thats one end of the scale and the other end is just wish seekers and dreamers who should never be given a passport.

When one plays a lone hand in this and keeps away from the crowds it becomes much more obvious. It starts in the airports, one can see them there and it doesn't improve much from the biggest airports to the smallest cities in Siberia.

As for the women folk, I suspect there is a little higher percentage of decency there, but there is very large percentage of dirty fruit in that basket also.


Posted by: youlek

I think antidate is useful. women cant see men who are just players or worse.

If you read some stories, you'll be shocked


Posted by: Turboguy

I don't know how fair and how accurate the list of sex tourists and bad guys is Youlek but if every man there belongs on there I think it is the most wonderful thing I can imagine. I don't know one way or the other if everyone belongs on there though.

I/O, Wow, I don't know what to say. I can't equate guys who are sincerly looking for a wife in Russia to a man who goes to Thailand looking to have sex with children (I mean real children)

I don't know how many guys I have met in Russia or Ukraine who were there looking for a good woman. I will guess it was 50 or so. Out of those, I can classify one as a real scum. The one I am thinking of was your typical ugly American, very ugly. He got himself arrested in Moscow. It is good that it was not my responsibility to bail him out our he would still be there.

We are talking about opinions. You have yours. I have mine. I think it is not a discussion that can go anywhere but I am glad I am not looking at life through your sunglasses.


Posted by: Zmejka

Hello guys!
Posting on the black board is a hard thing. We ask girls to show the example of their correspondence that the guy have sick intentions (requests to send naked pictures, disrespectful behavor etc.). But if the story was told from the personal experience, from the first meeting or sometimes - about exhusbands after a couple of years (the last we put in a section "Personal experience", not on the black list). We can't have 100% prove because we don't have such power. But we would like to worn others, if one girl had a bad experience with a certain guy so the other even shouldn't try it!
So i hope you understand that we mean good


Posted by: Turboguy

I have not been on the Anti-Date site for a long time. The first time I saw the list there without any knowlege that it existed, my reaction to myself, was, Wow, this is great. I am really happy they are doing that and I hope it helps. After scanning through all the pages and confirming I was not there I liked it even better.

It sounds to me that you are trying to do the best you can to be fair with it. It will always be an inexact science but all I can say is more power to them.

I am glad we guys have sites like RussianTeaRoom.net that can help us identify some of the girls that are really trying to scam us however in thier case I think sometimes gals are listed with too little proof, just a accusation.


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
listed with too little proof, just a accusation.


This is the problem I have on both sides of this debate. There is no provety, no regulation and no accountability. I have come, over time to the conclusion that a goodly number of the scamm/black list sites are as, if not more corrupt that the people listed on there.

I have no problem with warnings. Certainly that is very necessary, but time and again I have seen innocent people berated on these sites simply because they have been involved in a failed relationship and the other party has taken retalitory action.

Of course this leads to a wider question and that is how to stop people who are not genuine or of poor repute lodging profiles all over the net and playing their grubby games. (On both sides) A question to which I am not sure there is an answer, but the scamm and black list sites are certainly not the answer in the long term.

As I have said before, it has never directly effected me, but I do feel for some who have been berated unfairly. Unfortunately some of the people from AD have a questionable history in this area.


Posted by: Turboguy

I have to agree that it does happen. It sounds like Anti-Date is trying to do it as properly as possible. I can see the good. I can see the bad.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
This is the problem I have on both sides of this debate. There is no provety, no regulation and no accountability. I have come, over time to the conclusion that a goodly number of the scamm/black list sites are as, if not more corrupt that the people listed on there.

I have no problem with warnings. Certainly that is very necessary, but time and again I have seen innocent people berated on these sites simply because they have been involved in a failed relationship and the other party has taken retalitory action.

Of course this leads to a wider question and that is how to stop people who are not genuine or of poor repute lodging profiles all over the net and playing their grubby games. (On both sides) A question to which I am not sure there is an answer, but the scamm and black list sites are certainly not the answer in the long term.

As I have said before, it has never directly effected me, but I do feel for some who have been berated unfairly. Unfortunately some of the people from AD have a questionable history in this area.



Its easy I/O...self regulation.....with that i mean regulate yourself. I didnt once look on any blacklist or anti-scam site. I had one i suspected and after coming on here i used the sending flowers...caught him/her out and sent an email SCAM OVER...never heard from again.

The blacklists are totally useless from the males perspective for one simple reason. Boris posts picture1 of Anna A....scams X amount of dollars and gets put on a scam site....her then Boris posts picture 2 of Lena B and repeats the process. The names are different the pictures are different...Boris is still Boris.

It is however much harder for the ladies to discover whether a guy is a genuine person or not...this is very hard both logisticly and financially. For this i dont know a solution.

If a guy cant take the time to find a bit of info..... run through a few checks...and follow the DONT SEND MONEY rule then a fool and his money will soon be parted and i have no sympathy.


Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
This is the problem I have on both sides of this debate. There is no provety, no regulation and no accountability. I have come, over time to the conclusion that a goodly number of the scamm/black list sites are as, if not more corrupt that the people listed on there.

I have no problem with warnings. Certainly that is very necessary, but time and again I have seen innocent people berated on these sites simply because they have been involved in a failed relationship and the other party has taken retalitory action.

Of course this leads to a wider question and that is how to stop people who are not genuine or of poor repute lodging profiles all over the net and playing their grubby games. (On both sides) A question to which I am not sure there is an answer, but the scamm and black list sites are certainly not the answer in the long term.

As I have said before, it has never directly effected me, but I do feel for some who have been berated unfairly. Unfortunately some of the people from AD have a questionable history in this area.


I have to agree IO. Somewhere back the discussion came up about this. My wife knew a lady that was blacklisted....we could not be certain...but seemed to be because she would not put out. The otherside of the question would be..."Was she a vacation gal"?


Posted by: Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by youlek
I think antidate is useful. women cant see men who are just players or worse.

If you read some stories, you'll be shocked


I was shocked after reading.

On antidate even a man can write such frightful folk-tales about other man. If you want to play dirty tricks on somebody just put his photo on antidate and write that he is sexual maniac and add some other juicy words. The imagination of antidate forum will do other work.
If journalist Liliya Hanaki who is admimistrator of this site does not disdain to tell lies that she was victim of sexual solicitation of a foreigner what I can say about other women who just wants to take vengeance on their enemy. One girl of antidate has said - "Are you a man? You are guilty". IMO half of cases is fiction.

Zmeika, I hope you will not give links of RMP to antidate forum or maybe they are bored and wait for the next victims. I have read some of your posts on AD. I'm impressed.

Olga (Legal's wife)


Posted by: Turboguy

Good post Olga,

Watching the Anti-Date gals at work reminds me of watching an old cowboy movie where the bad guys ride into town, kill the sherrif and terroize the town except they try to do it with forums.


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
Good post Olga,
the bad guys ride into town, kill the sherrif and terroize the town


Or the "Gay" cowboy who rode into town and "Shot up" the sherrif.




Posted by: youlek

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legal
I was shocked after reading.

On antidate even a man can write such frightful folk-tales about other man. If you want to play dirty tricks on somebody just put his photo on antidate and write that he is sexual maniac and add some other juicy words. The imagination of antidate forum will do other work.
If journalist Liliya Hanaki who is admimistrator of this site does not disdain to tell lies that she was victim of sexual solicitation of a foreigner what I can say about other women who just wants to take vengeance on their enemy. One girl of antidate has said - "Are you a man? You are guilty". IMO half of cases is fiction.

Zmeika, I hope you will not give links of RMP to antidate forum or maybe they are bored and wait for the next victims. I have read some of your posts on AD. I'm impressed.

Olga (Legal's wife)


not all stories are lies over there. did you read about Rob Andersen. After reading about him, I wrote him and we communicated. Now I can tell you that every word, written there about him, is 100% truth.
though sometimes it seems to me women post men to punish them. But men do the same when they place women as scammers without any proofs


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by youlek
though sometimes it seems to me women post men to punish them. But men do the same when they place women as scammers without any proofs


Youlek: That is my whole contention with AD and the scamm sites. There is no credability to any of them because there is no provety or accountability. People post whatever they like for whatever reason and a lot of it is total BS.

It is doing nothing to improve the whole internet introduction industry and is dragging it slowly further down. It is simply appealing to popular stupidity in many cases because it is very easy to sell a "Bad News" story. The old saying is that "Good news never made a newspaper sell" and I think it is quite an accurate reflection of what is happening with AD and a number of the scamm sites.

Sure, you have found a case to be true and there would be hundreds more, just like there is hundreds of women-scammers. It does not justify some of the nonsense which is being propagated by these sites.

Don't kid yourself for one moment that "Principal" has anything to do with the reasons behind these type of sites. The partner advertisers are where the cash flow comes from and that is usually based on the number of "Hits" on the site. Anything that attracts anyone's attention, good or bad, therefore is good for business.


Posted by: Zmejka

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legal
I was shocked after reading.
Zmeika, I hope you will not give links of RMP to antidate forum or maybe they are bored and wait for the next victims. I have read some of your posts on AD. I'm impressed.

Olga (Legal's wife)


Olga, i hope you will not drag the examples of discussions from antidate to RMP or RWD any more untill you've been asked about it. I know when i did it - it was once and may be it was suited in wrong time, i said sorry for that.
Can you tell me what posts of mine exactly impressed you so much? May be you can give an example? I would be glad
Since i became a moderator on the forum and on the black list and board - i personally checked both of them, topics with accusations for sexual actions made by a person with 1 posts on the forum in total were deleted or moved to a "doubtful" section till the furthest ivestigation. I would like to say that we can't be 100% sure of some stories being told on AD. We want to see the prove but sometimes the words are our only prove if the whole story happened on the stage of first meeting or after. If more than 2 girls tell bad about a person - i think it's not for vain.
But once again - we're not the court. Reports reproduced herein are done so in good faith that their authors have represented the facts accurately, we accept no responsibility or liability for erroneous information submitted, and these reports are reproduced herein for information purposes only. But we try to do our best to prevent bad stories to happen. That's how i see the goal of the site and i'm personally working on it.


Posted by: Legal

Zmeika,

I hope you will not post the link of antidate on this board. Antidate is trolling around two boards and trying to find next "tripper-ripoter". Honestly, what are you doing on this third board? What is your mission? Do you want to throw light on "beneficent" action of AD?

Olga.


Posted by: youlek

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
Youlek: That is my whole contention with AD and the scamm sites. There is no credability to any of them because there is no provety or accountability. People post whatever they like for whatever reason and a lot of it is total BS.

It is doing nothing to improve the whole internet introduction industry and is dragging it slowly further down. It is simply appealing to popular stupidity in many cases because it is very easy to sell a "Bad News" story. The old saying is that "Good news never made a newspaper sell" and I think it is quite an accurate reflection of what is happening with AD and a number of the scamm sites.

Sure, you have found a case to be true and there would be hundreds more, just like there is hundreds of women-scammers. It does not justify some of the nonsense which is being propagated by these sites.

Don't kid yourself for one moment that "Principal" has anything to do with the reasons behind these type of sites. The partner advertisers are where the cash flow comes from and that is usually based on the number of "Hits" on the site. Anything that attracts anyone's attention, good or bad, therefore is good for business.


I am not against antidate in general. I don't like their atmosphere. reading it you see all Internate datings in black.
But it can be useful, at least women wont correspond with men, who are on that site.
why do you dislike it?


Posted by: Zmejka

Olga,
i have a question for you - what are you doing on this (second?) board? Does my participation have anything in common with my "mission"? I'm a memver of many other forums as well, it's not forbidden. If you mean - in such threads - then i'm trying to show another side of the coin - that there are bad people and we do try to worn others. If you read antidate last time you know i started a thread about our general attitude that some of AD members show in the topics on rwd. I don't agree wth such strict position and i don't want people associate us with men-haters. But my opinion stays mine and there're contradictory opinions, this is life.
I'm still waiting for the examples of my posts that impressed you. I even don't know what kind of impression it had on you - good or bad? If you don't mind saying B after saying A - i would like to know about it. Thanks in advance.
And just a little comment - please write my nick corectly - i'm Zmejka.


Posted by: Legal

Zmejka,

I have said about your last posts on antidate. That's kind of you but I still can not understand why you have given to antidate the link of RWD's topic and in that way you let antidate ridicule and humiliate one of members. Will you give the links of this board to antidate ?

Olga.


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legal
Zmejka,

I have said about your last posts on antidate. That's kind of you but I still can not understand why you have given to antidate the link of RWD's topic and in that way you let antidate to ridicule and humiliate one of members. Will you give the links of this board to antidate ?

Olga.


Hi Olga,

The members of Antidate often read this forum anyway. I know many of them and they don't seem to have an "issue" with this forum as many of them see this forum as more diverse.

I don't think they would post here as it is now. They do seem to have some issues with RWG and RWD but thats a whole topic in itself.


Posted by: Legal

searcher,

I hope

Olga.


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by youlek
I am not against antidate in general. I don't like their atmosphere. reading it you see all Internate datings in black.
But it can be useful, at least women wont correspond with men, who are on that site.
why do you dislike it?


Youlek: I am kind of sitting here scratching my head about your question. I've answered that several times already in this thread and you answer it yourself.

AD has no credability because like scamm sites, most of what is posted is mere speculation and not supported with any evidence of substance. Like you said many won't write to men listed on there simply because they are listed on there. Likewise men won't touch women whose photos are on scamm sites when they shouldn't be there. Do you see the problem with that. What if you have an arguement with some guy and he gets angry and lists you on a scamm site?

Why I don't like it in summary is no acountability, no credability and no provety.


Posted by: Zmejka

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legal
why you have given to antidate the link of RWD's topic and in that way you let antidate ridicule and humiliate one of members. Will you give the links of this board to antidate ?


Olga,
i gave the link to what i thought was inapropriate description of sexual relationships posted on open forums. I didn't mean to discuss the personality but the behavor he presented. But the things happened as they happened. It's not what i would like to see from both sides - negative attitude, open or hidden.
Why should i give the links from here? I don't want to spread roumors over AD.

I/o, what kind of prove you would like to see there? If the letters examples - we have it, but nothing from the actual meeting or what happened later. Here yes, we believe in the story - what else can we do? I don't know how to prove it - do you?


Posted by: Legal

Zmejka,

I don't think that you are so naive I have read the topic. I haven't seen any description of sexual relationships. I think you had other purpose

Olga.


Posted by: Zmejka

So that member we're talking about now never described how he made love to a woman in his thread? Do you remember that correctly?


Posted by: Legal

Zmejla,

Sorry, I don't remember such fact in his thread. Would you be so kind to show it? Just post his words.

Olga.


Posted by: Turboguy

Zmejka, I have seen a lot of guys complain when the A-D gals do posts in Russian that no one else can read but to be quite honest,

You might as well be posting in Russian becuase none of us can understand the points you are trying to make. If you can't do a link to help us understand cut and paste a few sentances.

I have seen people discuss their sex lives with the women they met in far more detail and far more explicidly than I would care to and to be honest I am just as happy not to have to read it and would never post something like that myself. That does not make them bad people as long as they were in a quest for a sincere relationship.

No one dislikes a sex tourist more than I do, particularly if deceipt is part of their tour package. It all comes down to this Zmejka,

Please explain what you are talking about.


Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmejka
So that member we're talking about now never described how he made love to a woman in his thread? Do you remember that correctly?


WOW! If your talking about a certain member who just recently said he was listed as a sex tourist you are wrong! In fact I believe you misunderstood.... he said he did not have sex with anyone! Perhaps you understood him to say he did have sex???? I would also like to see this post!


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmejka
Olga,
we believe in the story - what else can we do? I don't know how to prove it - do you?


Exactly, and history shows that people love a bad news story. Posted letters etc..phhhhhhhhhhh anyone can edit those and post whatever they like. Nothing credible in any of that.

As I have said before, none of this effects me in any way and never has done, however I see the issues and these sites are not doing anything to slow the flow of bad behaviour. That is what they don't seem to understand. There is just as many scammers and sex tourists out there today as there was 2 years ago and there will be just as many in 2 years time.

I find the whole thing abhorant but "Negativity" being preached all over sites isn't doing a thing to fix the problem. No I don't have the answers.

Why do people scamm? Why do people take sex tours? Why do dogs p!ss on car wheels? Because they can. It's that simple and they will continue to do so because "They can".

I suggest that if the likes of AD were to focus more on "How to" stories and advices rather than "Don't touch him" type individual stories, it would do far more good out there in the long term.

I've long thought that western men need to clean up their act a lot in this pursuit, however, my fiance' has remarked to me that she considers Russian women need to also clean up their act big time if they want to consistently attract a better class of man.


Posted by: youlek

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
Youlek: I am kind of sitting here scratching my head about your question. I've answered that several times already in this thread and you answer it yourself.

AD has no credability because like scamm sites, most of what is posted is mere speculation and not supported with any evidence of substance. Like you said many won't write to men listed on there simply because they are listed on there. Likewise men won't touch women whose photos are on scamm sites when they shouldn't be there. Do you see the problem with that. What if you have an arguement with some guy and he gets angry and lists you on a scamm site?

Why I don't like it in summary is no acountability, no credability and no provety.



the same situation with female black lists


Posted by: youlek

as for me AD, RWD, RWG and this forum are the same. People discuss, gossip and etc


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by youlek
the same situation with female black lists


Youlek: That is exactly what I am referring to when I talk about scamm sites. Perhaps you didn't understand or I didn't explain correctly. Scamm sites generally = female black lists. None of them are worth the cyber space they consume IMO.

They all might have started with good intentions but they have gotten to the stage where they are just a congregating place for disgruntled people to list anyone they feel like.

Added later: I can't comment about RWG because I don't go there much anymore, but no RWD and AD are very very different and if you don't see that, then you are very very blind.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by youlek
as for me AD, RWD, RWG and this forum are the same. People discuss, gossip and etc



No Youlek according to most of your posts this site is full of dirty old men wanting to marry their grandaughters...i dont go on the sites you mention because here people can discuss there beliefs and differences in usually a fair and good mannered way.

If you cant tell that the majority of men here are genuine guys that love there partners very deeply then maybe you need to read some of the personal stories here. Or maybe you cant tell they are genuine because there are no pictures to go with them,,,i other words if they dont fit into what looks like the perfect couple age wise to you then they must be dirty old grandfathers.


Posted by: Zmejka

I have a link, if you like i will post it also, but now i'll cut and paste a few sentences.
Turboguy, is your point that it's ok to write about his sexual life in the trip report? Even if a person has honest intentions? It goes far beyond than even posting pictres. When i posted a link on his thread i never mentioned he was a sex-tourist or so, i said i considered his description to be an erotic story.
Spakoyna, no i'm talking not about him.

Ok, i edited it.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmejka
I have a link, if you like i will post it also, but now i'll cut and paste a few sentences.
Turboguy, is your point that it's ok to write about his sexual life in the trip report? Even if a person has honest intentions? It goes far beyond than even posting pictres. When i posted a link on his thread i never mentioned he was a sex-tourist or so, i said i considered his description to be an erotic story.
Spakoyna, no i'm talking not about him.

l times.



Ok Zmejka. You have grabbed this letter from another site am i correct. In my time here ON THIS SITE i have not seen any such letters or visions of conquest. If such a letter was to appear on here then i believe it would be quickly removed and the Poster warned ....and if repeated Banned.

You should along with Youlek take the time to read the personal stories here and see that the guys are genuine and love their finacees/wives very much. Feel free to go through my posts regarding SEX tourists and you will geFrom the moment we met Olga was not afraid of kissing me and during the first couple of days I noticed that she hardly could contain her excitement. Of course been a good Russian woman had to stick to their habit of not having sex before the third day and me I decided to play along not to spoil our holiday. ,



above edited

We as a group dont put up with this sort of thing from these creeps....nor should we have to read their crap even if it is posted by you....if i wanted to read this sort of bullsh@t then i would go on the sites you have mentioned.

If you believe you are getting a better idea of Western/FSU relationships from these sorts of sites than you are here....then dont come here stay there and form your opinions based on these sorts of people.


Posted by: Zmejka

I/O, so happened that the main function of Antidate became the preventive function, exactly like "Don't touch him, don't waste your time on him". And girls come and say - thanks to your site i avoided getting into trouble. But life goes on and our members meet the candidates as it happens on rwd or rwg - they just dont write trip reports, they get married, give born to children - it's just not in the focus. But those who stay long - they see it.
But i don't take a blame off the shoulders of russian women - where there's a supply, there's a demand and so on.


Posted by: bobjf

[QUOTE=Zmejka]I have a link, if you like i will post it also, but now i'll cut and paste a few sentences.
Turboguy, is your point that it's ok to write about his sexual life in the trip report? Even if a person has honest intentions? It goes far beyond than even posting pictres. When i posted a link on his thread i never mentioned he was a sex-tourist or so, i said i considered his description to be an erotic story.
Spakoyna, no i'm talking not about him.


above edited

if this is from another site i give you the chance to edit your post if its from this site post the link & i will edit it
do not post this sort of thing on RMP


Posted by: Zmejka

ira156, i never said i took it from here. Olga asked me why i have given to antidate the link of RWD's topic - so i explained. When she couldn't remember any descripton he made - well, you saw me posting it.
You know i took a lot of my time reading everything that people post here and on other like forums as well so i'm quite into this. And i form my opinions on everything i read here and there and overthere. I don't think all western men are bad as well as all russian women are good. If i see the examples - i just see the examples of this or that behavor from both parts. But if you think only because i'm a member of AD also i'm against western men or their relationships - you're wrong here.
Sorry if i misunderstood your point.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmejka
ira156, i never said i took it from here. Olga asked me why i have given to antidate the link of RWD's topic - so i explained. When she couldn't remember any descripton he made - well, you saw me posting it.
You know i took a lot of my time reading everything that people post here and on other like forums as well so i'm quite into this. And i form my opinions on everything i read here and there and overthere. I don't think all western men are bad as well as all russian women are good. If i see the examples - i just see the examples of this or that behavor from both parts. But if you think only because i'm a member of AD also i'm against western men or their relationships - you're wrong here.
Sorry if i misunderstood your point.



The best thing to do would have been to PM Olga with your letter. If you go onto a site thats function is purely and simlpy to avoid scammers or sex tourists ...well the type of people on there will gravitate to the worst sides of these sorts of relationships....on BOTH sides. I have seen it quite a few times here where a new poster gets on and talks of this scamming b!tch or that one...they are quickly put into place ...given the advice that not all women are scammers and invited to learn a little about the good side of these relationships.

Maybe if you invited some of these women to see the better side of "US GUYS" then they might see that its not all doom and gloom....but then again maybe they will just get on and call us all dirty old men as Youlek has...who will probably put me on AD for trying to put her in her place.

Just one bit of advice you may want to pass on Zmejka..."if you want to fly like an eagle...dont hang around with turkeys".....Good luck in whatever your quest is.


Posted by: Zmejka

Ok, now i know how i should have done. I just didn't like being accused of something that i didn't mean. Thanks for explaining.


Posted by: bobjf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmejka
I have a link, if you like i will post it also, but now i'll cut and paste a few sentences.
Turboguy, is your point that it's ok to write about his sexual life in the trip report? Even if a person has honest intentions? It goes far beyond than even posting pictres. When i posted a link on his thread i never mentioned he was a sex-tourist or so, i said i considered his description to be an erotic story.
Spakoyna, no i'm talking not about him.

Ok, i edited it.


thank you,we try to keep this forum above others in that respect


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmejka
I/O, so happened that the main function of Antidate became the preventive function,


If you believe that you are sadly deluded or plain lying depending on what your status is at AD. The main purpose is revenue raising. So is the purpose of the AD web radio and so forth. If it was otherwise and as noble as you suggest, the site would not sell advertising space or pay for referred hits.

Sorry but AD like any other scamm list site in this day and age has no credibility and relies largely on listing horror stories to envoke outrage among women. Thus being a good piece of cyber advertising space. If you think or are trying to convince anyone that website owners do it only for noble reasons and for the love of it, I suggest a walk down "Reality Street".

I agree that some of the trip reports on various sites are totally inappropriate and I have taken some of the travellers to task from time to time for writing such a report. I also agree that it is helpful for women and men to receive warnings. That just makes sense. However, the approach AD and other scamm sites are taking is simply "Post the bad news", get a million hits on the site because everyone loves a bad news story and the site makes money.

I am not and have never attacked the idea of warning people on both sides, what disgusts me and I am attacking is the totally unprincipled manner in which AD and other scamm sites are operating today. I am amazed that an attempted comparison was drawn between AD and some of these forum sites. AD is not in the same class and never will be as long as it continues on it's present path. Sure it will be successful for the owners, but some of us have done well enough finacially in life that we don't measure success on these sites in monetory terms. Go figure.

I have no personal axe to grind as those sites don't effect me, never have and never will. I am just calling a warning to others to take them with a pinch of salt because a large percentage of their content is BS.


Posted by: Turboguy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmejka
I have a link, if you like i will post it also, but now i'll cut and paste a few sentences.
Turboguy, is your point that it's ok to write about his sexual life in the trip report? Even if a person has honest intentions? It goes far beyond than even posting pictres. When i posted a link on his thread i never mentioned he was a sex-tourist or so, i said i considered his description to be an erotic story.
Spakoyna, no i'm talking not about him.

Ok, i edited it.


I am not even sure I can say what my point is because my understanding of what you are talking about is not real clear. My feelings about it.

Sex is part of being human and being in a relationship. We all have our own standards of what is acceptable to us. Personally I consider my own sex life to be something that is primarily between my fiancee and myself. There may be times that some small part is acceptable but I would have no interest in a graphic description of that part of our life.

I have read a lot of trip reports. I find ones with graphic sexual descriptions to be rare. I can only think of one that I thought was in poor taste. I have seen a few where they shared more information than I thought was necessary. Sometimes I see mention of things that you can assume sex was part of like a mention that someone spent the night

I have had times when I have talked about sex in posts but I have tried to do it when it fit as part of the discussion, perhaps ones about our impressions about sex in the FSU and never in a way the person could be identified and with as little graphic detail as possible. I do not find it a postive thing when someone needs to talk repeatidly about his having sex 6 times a day or the women screaming so loud the neighbors were complaining. I think someone who needs to report things like that has problems with his own self image. Maybe it is just my own self image since I haven't had my gal waking the neighbors by screaming in delight.

All in all, sex when discussed for a reason and with diplomacy and descretness is not bad. Bragging, harming the reputation of someone, or trying to make posts read like an XXX novel is not good.


Posted by: Zmejka

I/O, i never looked at AD at the angle of money. And i'm not qualified enough to judge how much money the site brings. My work there as a moderator and article translator is totally free. I'm not a writer to add the fuel to the fire by writing some bad stories myself, sadly they come from true people with true feelings.
Web radio no longer exists in the way it was. I don't know if there's still music playing there on a certain dates, i don't listen to it.
I hope you spent sufficient amount of time on AD reading the stories and that's how your opinion was formed.

Turboguy, i understand your point of view. The deleted part in my post contained some details that considered to be a bad taste. If nobody is against i would prefer not to come back to that story again.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmejka
I/O, i never looked at AD at the angle of money. And i'm not qualified enough to judge how much money the site brings. My work there as a moderator and article translator is totally free. I'm not a writer to add the fuel to the fire by writing some bad stories myself, sadly they come from true people with true feelings.
Web radio no longer exists in the way it was. I don't know if there's still music playing there on a certain dates, i don't listen to it.
I hope you spent sufficient amount of time on AD reading the stories and that's how your opinion was formed.

Turboguy, i understand your point of view. The deleted part in my post contained some details that considered to be a bad taste. If nobody is against i would prefer not to come back to that story again.



Maybe after spending some time here Zmejka you can pass on that not all men are like the ones they come across...you will see many guys here defend women that get labelled as scammers by some man who has been scammed and labels all FSU women in such a way. Cheers


Posted by: Turboguy

Sometimes it is hard to post an example of what should not be posted without posting something that should not be posted but I think there is enough understanding that it is not necessary.

I too never looked at the monitary side of a RW forum until a few weeks ago. I am sure the advertising brings a small amount of money but I always thought those who ran a forum like this were doing it more as a labor of love and a desire to help people. I am not saying those are not motives for them but I did happen to hear the Amount Spencer got when he sold RWG and it was a lot of money so I think money does come into play.


Posted by: Zmejka

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
Maybe after spending some time here Zmejka you can pass on that not all men are like the ones they come across...


Ira, I already saw many positive examples here and on other forums, on AD too, and i consider myself to be a positive example too But people share more negative examples than if everything is good. That's why bad is more noticable - in my opinion. Well, i wish everybody luck in this quest and positive thinking also as i think it reflects the style of life one leads


Posted by: youlek

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
No Youlek according to most of your posts this site is full of dirty old men wanting to marry their grandaughters...i dont go on the sites you mention because here people can discuss there beliefs and differences in usually a fair and good mannered way.

If you cant tell that the majority of men here are genuine guys that love there partners very deeply then maybe you need to read some of the personal stories here. Or maybe you cant tell they are genuine because there are no pictures to go with them,,,i other words if they dont fit into what looks like the perfect couple age wise to you then they must be dirty old grandfathers.


but some sites can save you from money scammers or from feelings scammers.
I don't believe in love with big age ... you know what I mean.
I'll marry an old gemran man to revenge for my grandfather. ha-ha


Posted by: ham

i had a few discussions with the antidate people and what sums their approach best is one of them described scammers as hurt/stood up women exacting revenge upon evil men...which ignores a sizeable percentage of scammers are men or women in stable domestic relationships.
It sounds to me like the devil's advocate to "justify" scammers.
In a recent mud-slinging debate between two agency owners/peddlers, it was rumored that one of them boasted people (clients, whatever) ought to better beware, or he'd plaster them all over antidate.
If at all true, we have all the answer we need.


Posted by: Turboguy

I think the key is how well things are verified. I think in prinicipal protecting men or women from those with bad intentions and making hit harder for bad people to continue thier ways is a good thing.

When innocent people get placed on lists like that just because someone they met was not the right person for them and one was hurt and disappointed is not a good thing.

I have had a number of women disappoint me when we met and I am sure the same has happened in reverse. I have always tried to act with kindness and consideration but there are hateful vendictive people out there.


Posted by: Legal

If some men are pedophile, sexual maniac and so on, if the women that post on antidate were the victims of such bad men, why these victims of the sexual maniacs haven't appealed to the police?

Olga (Legal's wife)


Posted by: too_tall

I have a twenty something page hate piece written about me regarding my trip report trippen in St Pete. There are many lies told in the piece. They called me a sex tourist among other things.

I was sent a photo of . She is mud fence ugly. No I won't post it or send it to anyone in a PM.

I have quit arguing with the angry man haters at antidate. Hopefully they don't start trolling here. Fighting the women at antidate is like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer..............it feels so good to stop.

Kum-bay-ah

Bill


Edited by a moderator

I removed wording which pointed to specific persons as it was considered offensive by a member.

You can disagree with the behavior and/or tactics of members of that forum but try to refrain from things which would be considered insults and not pertinent to the topic.

A persons appearance is a matter of taste and/or opinion and not relevant to their behavior, thoughts, opinions, etc


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legal
If some men are pedophile, sexual maniac and so on, if the women that post on antidate were the victims of such bad men, why these victims of the sexual maniacs haven't appealed to the police?

Olga (Legal's wife)


Why don't all men who've been scammed over the Internet contact the police instead of posting girls' pictures and letters on anti scam sites? I think women go to Antidate for the same reasons.


Posted by: Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by inlove
Why don't all men who've been scammed over the Internet contact the police instead of posting girls' pictures and letters on anti scam sites? I think women go to Antidate for the same reasons.



Therefore there is only conclusion: all sites about women that are scammers and men that are pedophiles, sexual maniacs and morally depraved persons are just profanation and fiction Women and men that are losers are trying to take vengeance on each other using such sites but for other person who is an owner of such site it is a good business

Undoubtedly, special law about such sites has to be soon.

inlove,

can you see difference between "to be scammed with Internet" and "to be physical violated" ?

Olga.


Posted by: Texas Proud

Olga,

What are they supposed to go to the police for????

Let's say the guy is a 'sex tourist'... the woman has consentual (sp) sex with the man... and then in the end finds out that he was lying all along... he did not 'rape' her, so where is the crime??? BUT, he might do it again and that is what I assume the women are trying to talk about (again.. I can not read the site and don't know what they actually DO write)...

Now, the woman who scams money out of a man IS committing a crime... it is on the books as fraud... but what will happen.. NOTHING... the local police can not do anything about it and I doubt that the overseas police will do anything either... so the man posts on HIS site to warn others...

Now, too tall seems to be getting tarred... and from what he says he did not do anything wrong... and I am sure that there are many women that are not scammer but are on the sites...

I don't know anything about you or your husband... and you most definately speak your mind, so I am sure you are with someone you wish to be with.. that is great.. so why worry about anybody who thinks differently... you don't have to deal with them and you will not change their mind at all... just ignore them and be happy...

BTW, I think youlek is very immature and I don't read her posts most of the time... she is rude with her emoticoms and other statements... same with others who use negative words to try and get their point across, even if what they have to say makes sense... it is the WAY they are saying it... but they are clueless in what they do...


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legal

inlove,

can you see difference between "to be scammed with Internet" and "to be physical violated" ?

Olga.


I have not read Antidate, but my impression was that women who post their experiences there were not physically violated. More like "psychologically violated" over the Internet.
Hopefully, those who were physically violated did go to the police, although it would be difficult to catch a violator if he was already out of the country.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
Olga,

What are they supposed to go to the police for????

Let's say the guy is a 'sex tourist'... the woman has consentual (sp) sex with the man... and then in the end finds out that he was lying all along... he did not 'rape' her, so where is the crime??? BUT, he might do it again and that is what I assume the women are trying to talk about (again.. I can not read the site and don't know what they actually DO write)...

Now, the woman who scams money out of a man IS committing a crime... it is on the books as fraud... but what will happen.. NOTHING... the local police can not do anything about it and I doubt that the overseas police will do anything either... so the man posts on HIS site to warn others...

Now, too tall seems to be getting tarred... and from what he says he did not do anything wrong... and I am sure that there are many women that are not scammer but are on the sites...

I don't know anything about you or your husband... and you most definately speak your mind, so I am sure you are with someone you wish to be with.. that is great.. so why worry about anybody who thinks differently... you don't have to deal with them and you will not change their mind at all... just ignore them and be happy...

BTW, I think youlek is very immature and I don't read her posts most of the time... she is rude with her emoticoms and other statements... same with others who use negative words to try and get their point across, even if what they have to say makes sense... it is the WAY they are saying it... but they are clueless in what they do...



Hey TP what you say is full of wisdom.

The whole WM/FSUW or for that matter any relationship generated by the Internet is open to abuse...even domestic ones.

With all the best intentions of the Anti scam sites they are really open to abuse also.

I could start a NEW honest anti scam site today and within a week you would have both men and women falsely portayed on there.

As a "female scammer" I could take Olgas photo and scam a few thousand dollars...her photo posted on a scam site and then i get Youleks and do the same...then Inloves ect ect ect.....no one gets to see the true scammer ME.

There is a monetary risk to all of us men and women...just as there is a emmotional risk.

If men cant spend the time and effort to read of what to do and not to do then they deserve to be fleeced...for every picture of a scammer that is posted on an anti scam site i could post a thousand that havent....and use any one of them to scam some dopey guy.

The ladies have to be more accountable in who they choose..yes it is very hard but you have to make the effort to be more selective.

If a woman i would steer right away from "socials and tours". If i was writing to a guy ...at first i would say he can write to as many women as he wants...but once i felt it was someone that was worth taking to the next step....i would say you can no longer write to other women if you wish to continue with me...( this would also apply to me as the woman ). I would expect him to visit me within a time frame that i found acceptable...and to visit only me. I would also say that i wont be visited by others till we knew if it was going to progress or not.

Overseas romances are EXTREMEMLY difficult...you have to be prepared to put in a lot of work...men and women...before it even gets to stage 2. You also have top be prepared to suffer dissapointment because your risks are high...but so are the rewards...if you are not up to it...dont play the game.


Posted by: Turboguy

I was just over at Anti-date reading the tread about Too Tall Bill. I only got through a couple of pages of the 26 pages of remarks. He is in the scammer section and he is no scammer or sex tourist.

There was a poll in the thread. The question asked was

If guys who pull down thier reputaion or offend them should be in their black list. 94% of the women voted yes.

It seems obvious to me from that answer that the Black List there is not a good thing.

The posts were funny. It was actually rediculous.

Here is a link if anyone wants to read this.

http://forum.antidate.org/index.php?showtopic=6484


Posted by: Ellen

Hello everybody. I think there is no need to intriduce me - many could gusess who I'm.

So like I see you are interested in what's going on at antidate site Well there is only one my advice for you - go and learn Russian language ( advice is for Legal's wife as well) to be able understand what's site and forum is about. Your concetration olny at one section ( among all oters) called a desk of shame would not give you a whole picture to make your "wide" judgement.

But better to fix your attention at your own board stopping to drag local wars from one site to another time after time.

Good luck for all of you

Ps Persoanly to Legal's wife. If you are going to spread your information like a person who is supposed to know Russian language better to post link, qoutes and etc because you do have a "history" of person who can;t do that properly for some reason and information which you transfer in such a way is not the same like it was in original condition.


Posted by: ham

I am a believer in forewarning people, but not much in black lists.
in a recent mudslinging contest between 2 agency owner/peddlers, the first made posts with allegations about the second and the commercial forums he sponsors. The second retaliated with a stand-alone slander website. Then it was all around commercial forums. Now the first claims to always tell the truth, doing so to hamper fraud & conpeople.
Well, it ended with allegations being removed and the slander site being closed.
If what they said was true, why back down?
I guess it is good old mafia style intimidation and revenue raising.
The first contender above played the same Abbott& Costello routine with another forum long ago.
I pity the idiots who trust those places, but as another commercial forum guru publicly stated, pulling the strings of commercial forums made a fortune for *** (unnamed otherwise commercial forum leftovers get mad ).

There is a jewish australian philosopher named Peter Singer, who advocates a weird host of (conflicting) options. He even condones, "puts in an acceptable perspective", whatever BESTIALITY.
Now there is a site (whether his or not i don't know ) where his positive recension of an anthropologist's book favouring bestiality is displayed.
You should see the mental cases signigng the guestbook!
One even claims he had sex with a fish...
Fantasy island for me, so AD could be another such case.


Posted by: ham

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
Hello everybody. I think there is no need to intriduce me - many could gusess who I'm.

So like I see you are interested in what's going on at antidate site Well there is only one my advice for you - go and learn Russian language ( advice is for Legal's wife as well) to be able understand what's site and forum is about. Your concetration olny at one section ( among all oters) called a desk of shame would not give you a whole picture to make your "wide" judgement.

But better to fix your attention at your own board stopping to drag local wars from one site to another time after time.

Good luck for all of you

Ps Persoanly to Legal's wife. If you are going to spread your information like a person who is supposed to know Russian language better to post link, qoutes and etc because you do have a "history" of person who can;t do that properly for some reason and information which you transfer in such a way is not the same like it was in original condition.


when it suited their goal, AD people posted all around many places to "get the thing known"...now it's different...why?


Posted by: Ellen

AD "could be" anything Unless you go there and read ALL posts in ALL sections you could not built your own opinion


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
when it suited their goal, AD people posted all around many places to "get the thing known"...now it's different...why?


Well if you met such a behaviour of AD people you may post your opinion exactly at THAT place where you saw it. HERE I post my opinion about what your are doing HERE. Have some disagremments with my words in my posts Which exatly they were? Better mark them somehow because I didn;t get your point and have not idea what your were speaking about.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
Hello everybody. I think there is no need to intriduce me - many could gusess who I'm.

So like I see you are interested in what's going on at antidate site Well there is only one my advice for you - go and learn Russian language ( advice is for Legal's wife as well) to be able understand what's site and forum is about. Your concetration olny at one section ( among all oters) called a desk of shame would not give you a whole picture to make your "wide" judgement.

But better to fix your attention at your own board stopping to drag local wars from one site to another time after time.

Good luck for all of you

Ps Persoanly to Legal's wife. If you are going to spread your information like a person who is supposed to know Russian language better to post link, qoutes and etc because you do have a "history" of person who can;t do that properly for some reason and information which you transfer in such a way is not the same like it was in original condition.



Welcome Ellen. I have not been to your site and have seen no real reason to. The comments here seem to have generated around one particluar member of ours that has been labelled a SEX TOURIST. As i say having not been on your site i dont know for sure but im sure you do.

That member did some things that i didnt agree with and was told so by myself and many others here...however in his trip report here i NEVER saw him mention having sex with any ladies.

He did come back and realise that some of the things he did were indeed hurtful to some if the women ...however innocently they were done.

I wonder Ellen if you might take some of his following posts where he did say he had made some mistakes and appologised numerously.

To my knowledge we dont have a desk of shame here...but we are quick to point out and ban anyone who we feel behaves inappropriately.

We make mistakes just as im sure some of your ladies have...but through a sence of helping each other we try to make sure people learn from them.

Im sure you run a fair and open minded forum and will take back the person in questions appologies to show your members that he was sorry for what had happened and said so repeatedly. Spasi'ba


Posted by: Ellen

I want to notice that I have no MY site. I'm not an owner of AD, not a foundator of it and of course I make no money of it ( as it seems sombody is so interested in that side of forum) I'm just a moderator of English language section which was created there specially for those who could not speak Russian but have some "interest" in what's going on at antidate forum. It was just an attempt to make steps for better understanding and to give people an opportunity to discuss issue with "original" sourse. ( but not behinde a back basing their opinion on bad translation )

As for story with Billy then he does know my personal opinion we discussed it in private with him If you wish me to return to discussion aout his case then I should went back and re -read all those 20 pages first. ( from what I could recall he was not blamed officially like sex tourist, it was just words of some poster. - poeple are free to post their personal opinion during discussions. Bill was accused in writing trip reporst which were seemed not appopriated from girls' view of point.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
I want to notice that I have no MY site. I'm not an owner of AD, not a foundator of it and of course I make no money of it ( as it seems sombody is so interested in that side of forum) I'm just a moderator of English language section which was created there specially for those who could not speak Russian but have some "interest" in what's going on at antidate forum. It was just an attempt to make steps for better understanding and to give people an opportunity to discuss issue with "original" sourse. ( but not behinde a back basing their opinion on bad translation )

As for story with Billy then he does know my personal opinion we discussed it in private with him If you wish me to return to discussion aout his case then I should went back and re -read all those 20 pages first. ( from what I could recall he was not blamed officially like sex tourist, it was just words of some poster. - poeple are free to post their personal opinion during discussions. Bill was accused in writing trip reporst which were seemed not appopriated from girls' view of point.


Hey Ellen...as i said i havent been there and if you say he hasnt been labelled a sex tourist then fine. I have read all of his trip reports and you are welcome to read my responces....and i thought he showed a great deal of maturity in admitting his mistake and appologising for his error. If nobody has pointed out his appology to your readers maybe you can. Cheers


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
Hey Ellen...as i said i havent been there and if you say he hasnt been labelled a sex tourist then fine. I have read all of his trip reports and you are welcome to read my responces....and i thought he showed a great deal of maturity in admitting his mistake and appologising for his error. If nobody has pointed out his appology to your readers maybe you can. Cheers


My point was that if you ( all of you not personally you) wish to discuss what's going on at other board it's better to visit that board and read by yourself what have been posted . To build your opinion about whole board you should stay some more time there, read what're posting in other sections and take participation in discussion.

As for Bill then he has an opportunity to post his side of story and his appologises at AD forum, there were enough people from antidate forum who took his side.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
My point was that if you ( all of you not personally you) wish to discuss what's going on at other board it's better to visit that board and read by yourself what have been posted . To build your opinion about whole board you should stay some more time there, read what're posting in other sections and take participation in discussion.

As for Bill then he has an opportunity to post his side of story and his appologises at AD forum, there were enough people from antidate forum who took his side.



Good to here Ellen. Unfortunately i am one of those who doesnt read Russian as much as i am trying. I hope all goes well on the site.


Posted by: Ellen

Well you are not the only one who has not enough skills in Russian language That's understandable I just advice not to make any conclusions basing on opinion of people who have not those skills as well.

BTW if anybody managed to post a link to AD wall of shame where Bill was posted like sex tourist it would be usefull for local folks to get what all discussion is about.


Posted by: too_tall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
I want to notice that I have no MY site. I'm not an owner of AD, not a foundator of it and of course I make no money of it ( as it seems sombody is so interested in that side of forum) I'm just a moderator of English language section which was created there specially for those who could not speak Russian but have some "interest" in what's going on at antidate forum. It was just an attempt to make steps for better understanding and to give people an opportunity to discuss issue with "original" sourse. ( but not behinde a back basing their opinion on bad translation )

As for story with Billy then he does know my personal opinion we discussed it in private with him If you wish me to return to discussion aout his case then I should went back and re -read all those 20 pages first. ( from what I could recall he was not blamed officially like sex tourist, it was just words of some poster. - poeple are free to post their personal opinion during discussions. Bill was accused in writing trip reporst which were seemed not appopriated from girls' view of point.


First I want to say to Hellen / Ellen welcome to the forum. Second it's true that Ellen gave me advice in pm. I respect her advice.

Next I would like to say that Legal's Olga is a very nice and sweet woman Legal is a lucky man. (He knows this of course)

I would like to see an olive branch passed between Olga and Ellen.
You both speak Russian and it would be nice if you could be friends or at least friendly.

I would like to say for the record that I am sorry that I put the pictures of the nice ladies online. I covered their eyes but I should not have posted them at all.

I am not a sex tourist and I doubt that anyone even on antidate still believes that I am. They think however that I somehow offended Russian women someway in my trip report, which isn't true. I think that I was simply targeted by being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

The first few pages on antidate said that I am a sex tourist. I did however have a few Russian women who defended me on the antidate site. My Russian skills are basic at best to say the least.

I have talked to several women that I met while in St Pete and they have offered to write good things about me on the antidate site. I don't want to have them attacked on the site. Others that have written nice things about me have been accused of me paying them. I didn't pay anyone of course.

I have decided to put this behind me. There are millions of Russian women who have never heard of antidate and if they have then they can judge me by my actions.

I am done arguing and I am moving on.

Take care,

Bill

I would also like to thank the people who have sent me very nice PMs


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
I have decided to put this behind me. There are millions of Russian women who have never heard of antidate and if they have then they can judge me by my actions.


The best thing you can do Bill, put it behind you and get on with your life, you could argue until you are 100 and some will still not believe you!

Chris


Posted by: Ellen

That was my advice as well And for sure I didn;t give you advices to continue to re-tell your story with antidate time after time at places where people can't get what happened because they have not read it and where there are some people who prefer to post " not truth" ( soft to say) because of their personal issues what that board.


PS Also your post about "uglu face" made you not much better than those who send you those pics they got in private.


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismc
The best thing you can do Bill, put it behind you and get on with your life, you could argue until you are 100 and some will still not believe you!
Chris


If "some" will not belive him then it does not mean that "somebody" else should accuse "officials" of other board in actions they have not done.


Posted by: I/O

Hey Ellen: I have it on fairly good authority (From someone you have both met personally) that you and Kvinna are as ugly as a hat full of arseholes. Is that true or false? Yes or no?


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
Hey Ellen: I have it on fairly good authority (From someone you have both met personally) that you and Kvinna are as ugly as a hat full of arseholes. Is that true or false? Yes or no?



I'm married to a man who is fine with my uglu face for more than 20 years I'm not at bride's market So my face however uglly it could be is not business of yours. Showing such unhealthy interest to my face just shows some lack in your good breeding as well as shallow personality of that "someone" who met me personally


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
Hey Ellen: I have it on fairly good authority (From someone you have both met personally) that you and Kvinna are as ugly as a hat full of a***holes. Is that true or false? Yes or no?


No personal attacks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by From Khashyar's post on forum etiquette
Here are the guidelines that we ask that you follow:

1) It is obviously o.k. to disagree with someone and express differing views. Please express your thoughts freely while also respecting others.


Insults/personal attacks add nothing to the thread nor do they present any reasonable, logical argument of facts. There is nothing factual that would support one view point/opinion or another.

It detracts from any reasonable facts and only clutters the threads. Additionally, it causes animosity between members.

Please refrain! Thank you!


Posted by: searcher

I will leave the thread open for now but if it degenerates I will close it.

I would think people would be interested in hearing both sides of the story without insults.

If there was some misunderstand then maybe it can be resolved but insults only contribute to more hurt feelings and do nothing to resolve the matter.

Even the original poster has decided to move onward.


Posted by: Clarita

Quote:
Originally Posted by searcher
No personal attacks!

Insults/personal attacks add nothing to the thread nor do they present any reasonable, logical argument of facts. There is nothing factual that would support one view point/opinion or another.

It detracts from any reasonable facts and only clutters the threads. Additionally, it causes animosity between members.

Please refrain! Thank you!

It seems many of you have very selective view of what are personal attacks and all attacks towards antidate girls are highly appreciated and supported.

I want to remain that we also have photos of "someone Ellen have both met personally" and can send them over the antidate members with an invitation to discuss his appearence and his behaviour and I can assure you, that he will not be happy with comments, especially when we will put on the open air some facts about the meeting mentioned above.


Posted by: Clarita

Quote:
Originally Posted by searcher
No personal attacks!



Insults/personal attacks add nothing to the thread nor do they present any reasonable, logical argument of facts. There is nothing factual that would support one view point/opinion or another.

It detracts from any reasonable facts and only clutters the threads. Additionally, it causes animosity between members.

Please refrain! Thank you!

Thank you for your support, Searcher, we all are not interested in war.


Posted by: Lola

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarita
especially when we will put on the open air some facts about the meeting mentioned above.


did you hint on some meeting in one cafe in the Moscow center?

as for antidate's money issue I have to say they are billioners, almost like Berezovsky, because are sponsored by bigest oil-gas corporation


Posted by: Lola

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
Hey Ellen: I have it on fairly good authority (From someone you have both met personally) that you and Kvinna are as ugly as a hat full of arseholes. Is that true or false? Yes or no?


Yeah Kvinna is as ugly and old as you are, but she is richer woman in Eastern Europe much richer than Baturina and Eltsyn's daughters


Posted by: ira156

For the Ladies of Anti-date. I think if you have a good look through this site you will see a large percentage of us guys here have either married or are in the process of marrying our ladies. Even the ones that are looking for a partner are mostly on here to learn more about Russian culture and getting a better understanding of it.

I have been to visit some other sites and found men on there calling women one thing or another...and i just leave. I come on here to learn and hopefully pass on a few things that may help others....not to hear personal or generalised insults.

I think Lola's signiture of " Start your day with western mens blacklist" clearly shows she doesnt like us and really has no interest in the general spirit of this Forum.

If any of the ladies or gents from Anti-date wish to give us a better understanding of Russian culture while abiding by this forums guidelines im sure that all would agree that you input would be greatly appreciated.

But if you are just here to tell us how horrible we are then i suggest you stay on another site that has that general feel to it. Cheers


Posted by: Lola

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
I think Lola's signiture of " Start your day with western mens blacklist" clearly shows she doesnt like us and really has no interest in the general spirit of this Forum.


Thank you for sharing you thoughts but sometimes our ideas can lead us to the wrong way


Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
Hey Ellen: I have it on fairly good authority (From someone you have both met personally) that you and Kvinna are as ugly as a hat full of arseholes. Is that true or false? Yes or no?


Now that has to be one of the most low down posts I have witnessed here. Thanks for giving us such a wonderful image IO!

If I was ever to vote for a member to be banned for 1 post in context this would take the cake.


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarita
It seems many of you have very selective view of what are personal attacks and all attacks towards antidate girls are highly appreciated and supported.

I want to remain that we also have photos of "someone Ellen have both met personally" and can send them over the antidate members with an invitation to discuss his appearence and his behaviour and I can assure you, that he will not be happy with comments, especially when we will put on the open air some facts about the meeting mentioned above.


I know you have discussed this with me personally but the wording of your post comes across a bit threatening, as I understood from our conversation you used this as an example. I do understand English is not your first language so some things come across, in English, as very literal and different than in Russian.

I know that you told me about this as a hypothetical possibility (of posting someones photo) but would solve nothing.

I do realize from what I have been hearing that someone has sent (a) photo(s) of some of the staff of the Antidate forum to other people via the internet - some of those people post here and on other forums - and they have made some rather negative or insulting comments about those photos.

I don't know the basis the negativity or what proviked this hostility other than some post (in the Russian language) that may or may not have been understood in the ocrrect context and may have been only the opinion of a few people on that particular forum.

However, having said this I think it is time we move on!


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
If any of the ladies or gents from Anti-date wish to give us a better understanding of Russian culture while abiding by this forums guidelines im sure that all would agree that you input would be greatly appreciated.

But if you are just here to tell us how horrible we are then i suggest you stay on another site that has that general feel to it. Cheers


Well till now I can see only talks among you how ugly we are My be you would not mind to post your kind sudgests to SUCH posters at YOUR forum if you really wish us to stay here .


Posted by: too_tall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola
Yeah Kvinna is as ugly and old as you are, but she is richer woman in Eastern Europe much richer than Baturina and Eltsyn's daughters


I am going to come in defense of these ladies. I have big disagreements with Kvinna. I said something about her looks in a different post and I apologize. I should not have said this. I disagree wit