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Hello, I'd like to introduce myself....
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Posted by: Daan

Hello everybody,

I am new here (from Holland) and I like reading this forum.
This forum is very nice and helps me a lot to understand the Russian girl I met. It is a helpful tool and I am thankful......

I have met a Russian girl during last summer and fell for her. I was on an a language course and met her there (we are both still students and in our last year). We've spend some time together and later we found out that we've had some special feelings for eachother.
After we have corresponded some months we've met last November in Prague (neutral ground) and it was really good. Now I will visit her next February in Moscow where she will show me around (originally she is from a different city). She is very exited that I will visit her in her homecountry :-)))

It seems that this girl is serious and also her feelings for me. But sometimes it is a bit difficult to understand what she wants. She doesn't believe so much in "getting to know eachother" for a period to see if we match and she sees me only as her husband. Sometimes I don't know what to think of this because we are both still young (26) and it comes all of a sudden. We know eachother quite well, but talking about marriage is something you should think about and it is a decision for life? I tried to explain that I'd like to know her better and take it slowly and give it time to see if we "connect" for such big step. But this is something she does not really understand, for her it is: or marry, or nothing? I have this funny feeling she thinks I will let her down or my feelings for her are not serious enough and that only marriage is enough to prove my feelings for her? Maybe she is afraid of something?
Anyone similair situations or tips?? Do I have to be careful????

Does anybody have useful tips for Moscow? F.e. where I can find good and not so expensive restaurants? Some internetsites with simple phrases for tourists? I've heard that in Moscow people don't speak a lot of foreign languages (English), anyone experiences?
Do I have to be aware for certain things as a tourist form Europe? I moscow really so expensive or is it a equal to European standards (after the introduction of the Euro, the prices raised).

Okay, my introductions ends here :-)

See you around,
Daan

PS: I can not wait to see my girl in February in Moscow :-)

Posted by: ConnerVT

Hi Daan --

If you start reading through this forum, and the wealth of information you'll see around the Internet (most of it based in truth

), you'll find that your girl seems pretty typical. I'm going to stereotype for a moment, but it's the best way to explain it. Of course, everyone is different.

Most Russian women (RW) tend not to believe in long courtship and/or engagements. It was common for couples to marry early. Most needed to live in extended family situations (married couples may live with Mama, Papa, even Babushka). But being a married couple also opened opportunities to housing, wedding gifts (many times $$$), etc. This type of lifestyle doesn't afford the luxury of long periods of dating. Even young married couples would have difficulty finding a place to do, well.., what young married couples do.

Unlike the US (and I imagine the same thing is happening in Western Europe) where people are waiting later in life to marry, your friend, at 26 and unmarried, is starting to become an "Old Maid". Family is very important in the Russian culture. She may be feeling the pressure to begin her own family life.

I understand your concern to be certain that you "connect". Funny thing about that is, you either do, or you don't. The worst thing you can do is over analyze your feelings, because they are feelings! You can't think rationally about them.

As far as costs in Moscow -- it's the 13th largest city in the world, and the largest in Europe (2nd if you count Istanbul, but that's really Asia). It's bigger than Tokyo and New York City, neither which is known for being inexpensive places to be.

With that said, we probably earn more than most people who live in Moscow. But you can easily spend your money real fast, if you are not careful. As your friend isn't a Moscow native, you will need to talk with her, and agree on what level of spending you are comfortable with.

Posted by: andrei

Funny thing about Moscovites is that they always say 'I know some English' but actually they don't know jack sh-t just like any other Russian. They think that 'spasibo' in english is 'senk yoo'. So if you talk English correct, like 'thank you', they may not even catch what you're saying.)))

Posted by: Emetsky

Russian women (especially those looking for foreigners) like men who are generous. Never count your money in front of 'em or they will think that you are greedy.

They expect you to take care of the bill at all times. If she wants to go to the New Arbat area at night, then you becha you're gonna be spending a lot of money. That's where most of the nightclub/casinos are located in Moscow.

For more info about Moscow, just do a search on the web you'll find a lot of sites about Moscow. You can also buy some tourist guides at your local bookstores.

Good luck!

Posted by: Daan

Hello!!!!
Thank you for your quick response and tips.....
I hope to find some people who talk some other langauge than Russian (f.e. when I want to buy her a present which must be a surprise) because my Russian is not so good.
But I think young students may speak some English (and perhaps some German?) so maybe they can help me somehow.....and I am half Czech and some words are nearly the same in Russian or Czech.

I've had this experience with Russians (in Prague) who said they know some English, but it was a riddle to find out what they were saying because they spoke...well.....maybe "interesting" is a better word :-)) They did their best and I pretended like if I understood them.......they did their best.

ConnerVT: thanks for your opinion about "old maids", and I think you might be right. This girl also started about children and she sounded very serious.....

Posted by: Castlestormer

Welcome Daan.

My only tip for you is to learn as much Russian as fast as you can. It is very difficult for anyone without a limited Russian language base to have any success in that city. If you understand the alphabet, and know how to read the language at least, you will have success in the metro and with maps. Then it is just a matter of adding to your vocabulary, and learning the necessary phrases.

I just returned from Moscow. What a great city.

Have fun, and feel free to email me any time you have questions. Although there are other gentlemen here who are far better sources of information that I am.

Posted by: LeoN

Daan.
The age of 26 sounds really nice for me.She is serious and she is having serious intentions.Imagine your self dating with a 21-22 year old RW.You could be a sightseeing for her friends.
If i were you, i would still be carefull.If you see any weird signs, back off.Unfortunately, there are some women that use westerners as a ticket for theaters, operas, restaurants, casinos, etc etc.These are really bad signs.Try to detect from the very first day if her feelings are real or not.
Generally speaking, your case sounds really nice.No age diference, great background.I believe that you will have a nice time together and your relationship will go on.

Posted by: Daan

Hey LeoN,
Thanks for your positive words, but how can I detect if her feelings are real?? I tried this once when we met one month ago, but as I understand Russian women/girls are sometimes not so emotional. But some other moments they can surprise you with all their emotions. Personally I think this girl is a bit "closed" and not so talkative about personal feelings or emotions. Sometime it feels like if you are in an emotional roller coaster :-))
I think women from Europe are more open for such things?? I have a very good friend who has the same experiences (he also has an Russian girlfriend).
Anyone similar impressions?

But still....she is grate and I am also serious with this relationship..
She is the best I've met so far.........and it just feels good, even from a distance.

Posted by: Emetsky

'just wanted to say that I don't think there's anything wrong with women who want to go to the theaters, operas, restaurants, casinos, etc etc. I'm sure they're sick of staying home and watching TV. And besides, Russian women are very cultured so a trip to the theater, opera, galleries and museums is a must.

I experience the same thing with women whom I date here in the States. Girls just wanna have fun.

They're pretty much the same everywhere. Over here, women want to know how much you make, where you live and what kinda car you drive.

Posted by: LeoN

Hi all.
Yes indeed, women are more or less acting the same way in our world.I can definately say that here in Greece too, they wanna know your profession and car before your name.

But a 26 year old student like our friend Daan, couldn't possibly have the money and the will to spend it in those places.Yes, they will go to the opera, they will go to the restaurant, they will go to the club, but they will never go to the casino.
Be a gentleman and pay.But before you do that, you should set your limits.Those limits will discrimanate if she is a party goer or a life time companion.
All relationships need time.Take your time with her and the depth of her feelings will be exposed.If you can't detect her feelings, or, if you are eager to be informed, take the first step and ask her directly.I guess she would do the same.Also, be prepared to answer this question from her too.

Posted by: Castlestormer

Quote:

Originally posted by Emetsky
'just wanted to say that I don't think there's anything wrong with women who want to go to the theaters, operas, restaurants, casinos, etc etc. I'm sure they're sick of staying home and watching TV.

Anyone who has ever spent any time watching TV in Russia will shout out a big "Amen" to that one. Between the gratuitous nudity and the bad overdubs, there ain't much there to challenge such a brilliant people.

I did get the opportunity to watch an episode of "Beavis and Butthead" when I was there last week. I laughed so hard at the poor Russian guy who had to do the voice-over of Beavis. I wonder about what we Americans are exporting to that country sometimes.

Posted by: Emetsky

Cafe's are always cheaper than Restaurants. Ask your GF to take you to one of several Yolki-Palki's in Moscow. Maybe she knows of a student cafeteria in a school?

For cheap transportation, use your feet or take the metro instead of Taxis. Any car can serve as a taxi, just flag 'em down and negotiate the price before you hop in.

A cheap hotel would be the Hotel Izmailovo-Vega or Gamma Delta but it's far from the city center although there's a metro station close-by.

Here's some cafes:

Amalteya , Stremyanny per. 28/1; Serpukhovksya metro. Choose from a vast range of meze in this cheap Turkish café, which has a singer in the evenings. Daily 11am-last client.

Dioscarius , Merzlyakovskiy per. 2; Arbatskaya metro. Georgian food and great variety of Georgian wine, right in the centre of town. No credit cards. Daily 11am-midnight.

Donna Clara , Malaya Bronnaya ul. 21/13; Mayakovskaya metro. Small café in the heart of literary Moscow, offering great window seats. Daily 10am-11.30pm.

Guriya , Komsomolskiy pr. 7/3; Park Kultury metro. Cheap and scrumptious Georgian food, if a little full of the foreign community. No credit cards. Daily 11am-11pm.

Kofe-In (Caffeine) , Bolshaya Dmitrovka ul. 15; Teatralnaya metro. A few main meals, but mainly great coffee and desserts. No credit cards. Daily 9am-11pm.

Kot Begemot , Spiridonyevskiy per. 10A; Mayakovskaya metro. Food nearly as good as the location. No credit cards. Daily noon-midnight.

Krizis Zhanra , Prechistenskiy per. 22/4; Kropotninskaya metro. Ridiculously cheap and mellow bar with a variety of live music. Very popular, with live bands in the evening. Daily 11am-11pm. Concerts start 8pm.

Ogonyok , Krasnaya Presnaya ul. 36; 1905-goda metro. Russian food that doesn't limit itself to pelmeni and beetroot. No credit cards. Daily noon-11pm.

PiR O.G.I. , Pyatnitskaya ul. 29l; Novokuznetskaya metro. Great food and beer, and you're bound to meet someone you know in here. No credit cards. 24 hours.

Project O.G.I. , Potapovskiy per. 8/12; Chistiye prudy metro. Hip club, bar and restaurant with sessions for kids in the mornings. No credit cards. Daily 8am-6pm.

U Babushki (At Granny's), Bolshaya Ordynka ul. 42; Tretyakovskaya metro. Small, cosy, with homely food - just like its name implies. Daily noon-10.30pm.

U Nikitskikh Vorot , Bolshaya Nikitskaya ul. 23/9; Okhotny Ryad metro. Cheap Georgian food, in a comfortable bar (rather plain restaurant). No credit cards. Daily noon-midnight.

U Yuzefa , Dubininskaya ul 11/17; Paveletskaya metro. Jewish home cooking, old fashioned, with live music. No credit cards. Daily noon-11pm.

Yolki-Palki , Tverskaya ul. 18; Bolshaya Dmitrovka ul. 23/8; Klimentovskiy per. 14/1; Novyy Arbat ul. 11; etc. If you want to eat Russian/Ukrainian/Mongolian food at rock-bottom prices, join the queue at one of ten or so branches of this popular eatery. No credit cards. 11am-midnight.

Posted by: andrei

Quote:

Originally posted by CastleStormer
Anyone who has ever spent any time watching TV in Russia will shout out a big "Amen" to that one. Between the gratuitous nudity and the bad overdubs, there ain't much there to challenge such a brilliant people.

I did get the opportunity to watch an episode of "Beavis and Butthead" when I was there last week. I laughed so hard at the poor Russian guy who had to do the voice-over of Beavis. I wonder about what we Americans are exporting to that country sometimes.

I wouldnt say that our TV is THAT bad. Any overdub is ridiculous to an ear of a guy who've seen the original. And there can't be nothing wrong in nudity, Russian women nude are fine and you know it.))) And by the way, Beavis AND Butt-Head are dubbed by one guy.

And oh yeah, there IS a lot of crap that America exports to Russia, especially movie pictures and TV series. Films like Red Heat, Armageddon, Mail Order Bride, and all other Russian Bride stuff always make me want to kill a cowboy.))

Posted by: Daan

First: Happy New year everybody!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the adresses Emetsky,
the more tips the better and I also think cafés would be better than going to restaurants. I have printed your adresses and I will look for them on some city-maps. I was a bit surprised because from what I've seen on the internet it seemed that you have to pay with an creditcard in cafés and/or restaurants....but i guess you can also pay cash in most of the restaurants and.or cafés.

I think it's not a good idea to look for some cafés or restaurants near the Kremlin? It will be pretty expesnive I guess. My GF is not from Moscow originally and she told me she doesn't the city that well. But I am sure she knows where to go and where not to go.

I will probably stay in the hotel named Rossiya, it's the cheapest hotel which is offered in the several travel brochures which I have collected. My travel agency advised me to book a hotel in combination with a ticket because of the visa, registration etc. They said that it would take less problems if you book everything at once, but I don't know if this is true....?

About the dubbing topic.....I've seen American films on a Russian channel which were overdubbed but on the background you could hear the original language....it was a bit funny.....

Ow, who knowes a website where I can look for concerts (classic or modern music) in Moscow? I know my GF likes concerts and musicperfomances and maybe I can take her there as a surprise.

I really can not wait untill the end of February........I am sure it will not be the last time I will visit Moscow....

Sorry about my writing but after a night of celebrating New Year with friends...my head is not so clear:-))

Posted by: Emetsky

Happy New to you too Daan!

As far as cash is concerned, you'll have to change your money into Rubles. There are exchange kiosks at the hotel Rossiya. You can also withdraw money directly from ATM machines located at the hotel lobby either in US dollars or Russian rubles. I also noticed some slot machines at the lobby where you will be making a deposit instead of a withdrawal :-) no need to go to Novy Arbat.

A lot of of restaurants accept credit cards for payment. If you like American fast foods, there's McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Sbarros, and KFC. If you like Russian food, there's a Yalki-Palki close to the Bolshoe theater. I also heard that Russkoe Bistro is very popular.

Hotel Rossiya has a very convenient location since it is walking distance to most of the Tourist sites in the city center. From there, you can walk to Red Square, the GUM, the Kremlin, Manezhnaya Square (mall), the Bolshoe Theather, Tyverskaya Ulitsa (main street), Moscow Conservatory and many more. You can take the metro to get to Old Arbat St., Izmailovo Park and the Moscow Zoo.

The standard rooms leaves a lot to be desired, however, they do have renovated rooms with card keys for a little more money. Btw, there's also a hot nightclub at the ground floor called the Manhattan Express.

If your GF is not from Moscow, you will probably want to take the city tour via bus. You can book this at your hotels intourist office or somewhere else. You will see some signs at the lobby's west entrance. There are some cheaper tours available for local Russian tourist without any English interpretation.

It is good to know that the hotel Rossiya has 4 entrances. If you're meeting with someone at the lobby, be sure to specify which lobby (N, W, E, S).

Ciao!

P.S. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/travel_guide.html

Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:

Originally posted by andrei
I wouldnt say that our TV is THAT bad. Any overdub is ridiculous to an ear of a guy who've seen the original. And there can't be nothing wrong in nudity, Russian women nude are fine and you know it.))) And by the way, Beavis AND Butt-Head are dubbed by one guy.

And oh yeah, there IS a lot of crap that America exports to Russia, especially movie pictures and TV series. Films like Red Heat, Armageddon, Mail Order Bride, and all other Russian Bride stuff always make me want to kill a cowboy.))

I agree. All of the American stuff they show there (with maybe the exception of a few old episodes of Columbo or something like that) is really bad, and they show a lot of B movies there that no one sees here (like Mail Order Bride-- sorry, not really in the theatres here at all, total B movie). That's why Russian frequently think we only have totally crap movies, because they rarely show the good independent films or more serious movies there. The dubbing also bothers me, I wish they would do Russian subtitles (it would also help people learn English better), but I guess that's more expensive. So is buying quality movies to show there, hence the excess of crap.

The better stuff on Russian tv is generally the Russian made stuff-- the good films from the Soviet era (I could watch 12 Stulev once a year with pleasure--Mironov version) and I know some of the new mini series type stuff isn't too bad, although I haven't seen many of them. I also like some of the comedy shows (though a lot of them are really terrible), like Gorodok. As soon as we get the Russian satellite package available in our town, we're going to sign up for it.

Posted by: Daan

Thanks again emetsky!!!! Very good and useful information!
Four entrances at hotel Rossiya???? I hope I won't get lost in this huge building with more than 3000 rooms in it.

In Holland we have Dutch subtitles under the (English spoken) movies, and this helps a lot of people learning some English. I think it would be a good idea switching to subtitles in Russia or for example in Germany and many other countries.

Posted by: Vyesna

BTW, Daan, as some have already explained, there is a lot of social pressure in Russia to get married and have kids early, well before 25 in the provinces and around 25 in the cities, although I think in the cities it is slowly becoming less of an issue to wait until the late 20s to have children. I think Western women also feel the same pressure after the age of 30-32, although probably in a somewhat more veiled form.

There's some social pressure on the Russian men too to get married, which is why a lot of them also get married early, but that kind of social pressure is easier for men to ignore than women, in any country.

I think maybe you could talk to her about this, explain that in the West it's entirely normal for a woman to have a first child between the ages of 30-35 and the vast majority of those who wait that long are none the worse for it. I would take the view that it's more important to take the time to build a relationship that will last rather than rush to get married and have children just because that's what everyone else has done or is doing. Furthermore, those who rushed to get married at 20 and have children a year or two later often found themselves divorced before the age of 30, living with their parents again. It's very hard for her to not feel that kind of pressure, but if you can support her in resisiting it if it's important to you to wait, your relationship will probably be the better for it.

One of my friends from Kiev said that her friends and classmates got married when they were around 20 or so and she didn't. She was put under a lot of pressure, made fun of and so on. But she didn't get married just for the sake of it and ended up marrying her husband at the ripe old age of 26 and now lives happily with him (also a Ukranian immigrant) in the States while many of those girls who got married earlier (and felt themselves superior to her for doing so) are divorced already. Your girlfriend herself should have countless examples of the same sad cycle around her-- explain that you just don't want that to be you in 3-5 years.

Posted by: Emetsky

Don't get married until you're ready. In the meantime, be sure to make her happy. That's what I've been doing with my GF. We had our first meeting in Moscow last August and I'm going to her hometown of Yoshkar-ola this coming May to meet her family. We're also planning to visit the British Isles in the summer.

We're trying to spend more time getting to know each other better before we decide to finally tie the knot.

Btw, you can find some Hotel Reviews on this website...

Hotel Reviews

Happy New Year!!!

Posted by: Emetsky

About Moscow eateries...

Posted by: Daan

Hmmmm......in fact my GF already did mentoined marriage and children.
Last time we've met (November 2003) I asked her about her feelings and when I told her that I like her she didn't understand what I was saying. According to her there is a big difference between love and like. When you "like"someone in Europe, it means you have more feelings for someone than just friendship. This is what you feel when you are atrracted to someone. "Loving" someone is the next step.........and I think I am already in the next stage, but marriage is a bit quick...
She didn't understand the difference and for her it is clear: "You love me or don't love me", if you love me you will marry me........she said.
For me this was a shock and I didn't really knew what to think and I have this feeling she doesn't want to lose me somehow.

After I've been reading articles about Russian women on this forum (and what Vyesna shared with us) I think I can understand her better now (perhaps a social pressure). But how on earth can I explain her that I first want to know het better without marriage?
I tried it a few times but she got a bit angry and confused.....she allready mentioned a wedding perhaps somewhere next autumn. Okay I love her, but I don't want to marry immidiately..... What Vyesna wrote is true (about Western women and marriage/children), in Europe people don't marry at once....they first get to know eachother better to see if they "connect" or not.
But somehow my Gf connects "loving" with marriage automatically.
I know my GF is not the type who wants to use me for a permanent stay in Holland, money or just as an entertainment. I believe that her feelings are real and that she wants me to be her husband and a father of her future child in future.

I don't have any experiences with Russian girls and sometimes it is a bit difficult to talk about such things with her. But I try to understand her.....
Perhaps we will discuss it when we meet in Februay but I have to bring it carefully.....
The fact that I will visit her was very pleasant news and she couldn't believe her ears, she was very excited :-))) She was very happy.

Thanks Emetsky!! I will read everything very carefully and especially prices of good (but not too expensive) restaurants interests me. I was looking for prices and found out that prices in restaurants can be very high......and I am only a student. But I would like to take her out of course and celebrate my birthday with her.

I'm looking for some simple phrases for tourists....I've looked in bookshops in Holland but there is almost nothing about Moscow or some simple touristbooks. I started to learn the alphabet and I found some prhases like: how do you do...... but I don't think this will help me a lot when I am looking for my way to the metro :-)

Cheerio!!!

Posted by: Emetsky

For simple words and phrases, try the following:

1. ectaco website - you can download a phrase book in PDF.
2. waytorussia.net
3. masterrussian.com

There's a lot of Russian language materials available on Amazon.com

I also highly recommend the Pimsleur Instant Conversation Audio Cd's. If this works out fine for you, you can upgrade to Comprehensive Russian I.

I believe your GF wants to make sure that you're really serious about her and that you're not just spending time with her to partake of some delightful earthly pleasures courtesy of hers truly :-)

Like all smart women, she doesn't just want a piece of the pie, she wants the whole pie :-)

Dosvidanja!!!

Posted by: Emetsky

If you really want to save money on food, I'd say rent a flat so you can cook your own food.

Posted by: Daan

Hehehehehe...cook my own meals....I think "burn" is a better word :-) My cooking skills are not no good and I think it will be also a bit expensive because of all the burned food and before I mamage to cook something acceptable, you're talking about at least 10 completely burned meals :-) I think going to a restaurant saves time, frustrations.....and maybe some money. No that was just a joke, thanks for the information Emetksy!!
Especially those websites are very useful and without your help never would find such information....thanks!!!
I also want to surprise my GF with some little Russian, I think she will be very interested and happy, and I think for her it is a sign that I am serious about our relationship.....

I think my GF trusts me and now knows that I am serious.....and I am happy that she is so careful and that she wants the whole pie, not a part :-) It will be a wonderful time with her.....I only must explain about my opinions about marriage, children etc, that will maybe be a difficult part. I can not wait to see her at the airport waiting for me...........

Posted by: Castlestormer

Quote:

Originally posted by Emetsky
If you really want to save money on food, I'd say rent a flat so you can cook your own food.

This is the best advice ever!!!!!!!!!!!

I just returned where I rented a flat for two weeks. There is nothing better than going to a "producti" every day, getting fresh food, and cooking it in your own kitchen. Dude, if you can boil water, you can cook some of the best Pelmini ever. It can be bought frozen for about $3 USD and I got three meals out of it at least. Imagine slicing your own bread, fresh fruit on the table, and nobody to tip at the end of the meal. If I was there to meet with a lady, I would never do the "hotel thing". Spending time with her "at home" is one of the most intimate, and revealing ways to see what she is like.

Apartments are the only way to go in Moscow! And "Moscow Rick" gave me the best apartment experience I could have ever hoped for. Go to www.enjoymoscow.com. I get no kickback for referring him. He has just earned my business in the future, and I'll rent from him again in February.

Have fun!

PS: Emetsky's a genius. I expect to see your name on the ballot for president this fall comrade!

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally posted by Daan

I also want to surprise my GF with some little Russian, I think she will be very interested and happy, and I think for her it is a sign that I am serious about our relationship.....

try this site too: Tender russian Words and Phrases (even has .wav files so you can hear pronounciation for most words/phrases)

Posted by: Arnold

Hello Castle Stormer,

which travel agency did you use to book your flight?

How about the Visa, did you use Moscow Rick's service, or what did you do?

BTW, nice pics of you and Jutman!

Best wishes, Arnold

Posted by: Castlestormer

Quote:

Originally posted by Arnold
Hello Castle Stormer,
which travel agency did you use to book your flight?
How about the Visa, did you use Moscow Rick's service, or what did you do?
BTW, nice pics of you and Jutman!
Best wishes, Arnold

I booked air fare through the British Airways web site, which was the same fare they had posted on www.travelocity.com. And I got my visa through the Russian consulate here in the US. Texas is not handled out of San Francisco anymore. You have to send paperwork to Washington DC. Print the forms from the web site, fill them out, attach picture from Walmart photo studio, and wait two weeks. It's simple.

I used Moscow Rick for everything else over there. That guy is a hoot!

Thanks for the nice words on the pics.

Posted by: Arnold

Hello Castle Stormer!

Thanks for the info and the prompt reply!

Best wishes, Arnold