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Sending Money
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Posted by: Basileus

I have a question. Some people say to never send money to someone you have not met. However, I do recall reading from Lena that some Russian girls dream to come to the USA and will spend a lot of their money at internet cafes, and it is expensive. So would it be out of the question to send some money to alleviate their costs? I would frankly be hesitant myself. I guess it would depend on if you feel you can trust the woman or not. What is your take?

Posted by: Arnold

Hello Basileus,

First of all, I think that the answer to this question really only can be given by yourself. You would not ask about it, if you did not intend to do it.

I guess, you are looking for approval. But nobody can give it. You are responsible for your own actions.

If the lady did not ask for money, but you want to help, just ask her about it.

Before you ask, have a maximum amount in mind you are willing and able to send to her. Take into consideration, how many pictures and letters you have received so far. Then think of them as dates with a Western woman, and ask yourself, how much you would have spend on her going 'dutch'.

I don't think it to be wrong if you want to help her.

If she is asking for money though, I would be skeptical about her intentions.

I might still go with the above in regard to splitting dating expenses. Thus, you also want to consider expenses for translation of your or her letters. Come up with a number, send the money, and see how it goes.

I think, it would be the honorable thing for any man to do in case things don't work out between the two of you.

I think though that Russian women, who are serious in their pursuit of love would rather chew of their arms before they ask you for financial assistance. It is a matter of honor for them as well.

I mean would you ask for money, if you really cared about someone?

All you can do is offer, or just send it. The answer lies within yourself.

Best wishes, Arnold

Posted by: spamer

heres another thread with the same question

http://www.russianmeetingplace.com/...t=internet+cafe

Posted by: ConnerVT

Part of the problem -- there is no easy, inexpensive way to send anything to Russia. Basileus, I'm not speaking about your g/f in particular, but just my general thoughts on the subject.

It is nice if you could just send $10 USD to cover her Internet costs (this is close to her actual costs for a month). But it will cost you $30 when you add in the fees. Since Western Union is going to charge you $20 whether you send ten, twenty, or even $100 USD, why not just send the larger amount?

I can think of a couple reasons it's not a good idea. First is that if she is not legit, even sending small amounts of money is positive reinforcement to scammers. A few dollars here, a few dollars there... pretty soon, we are talking about real money.

Even if you are confident the woman you are writing is not a scammer, you are setting a precedent in your relationship you need to think about. You are adding money to a situation you both are just discovering. Is she writing to you only because of the wonderful person you are? Do you feel you are owed more timely responses to your letters? It is easy to feel you have 'invested' much into developing a relationship just by writing. Money doesn't need to be involved -- your time and emotions are enough. I met women who I thought we had struck it of marvelously in letters. When we met, it was obvious we didn't 'click'. But it was difficult to walk away, as I had so much 'invested'. I hate to think how different it would of been if money had been imvolved...

Posted by: Basileus

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ConnerVT
[B]Part of the problem -- there is no easy, inexpensive way to send anything to Russia. Basileus, I'm not speaking about your g/f in particular, but just my general thoughts on the subject.

Conner, I said what I said because I read something that Lena said, but in response it would as Arnold said would be a judgement call. It can be quite expensive as Lena said to write via internet. There is also the standard of living in the country. I brought this up, because I was wondering I was rough vis-a-vis this girl and assumed she was a scammer. She didn't ask me for money, but I assumed she would because she gave all these enthusiastic feelings very early. So I told her you are probably going to try to ask me to pay for your internet and she did mention it was expensive. Anyway, I would not send her money, of course.
Now, the Russian Woman I correspond with has never asked me to send her anything. I did just recently asked her for her physical address to send her a Christmas card. I told her I wanted to be friends only, because I thought she was going too quickly for me, wanting to see me when it had only been a month.
She seems sweet. She is attractive. She tells me she would never deceive me and never asked me for a dime. She is from the city of Kazan. She tells me she would be depressed if I no longer e-mailed her and she is unhappy that I can see us only as friends at this point. I am just being cautious.

Basil

Posted by: spamer

** just a funny thought **

I had a girl asked for money once and she was nice enough to give me her bank account number to send it to so I could do a money transfer. LOL

When I asked Olga for her bank account to send money to her. Her reply was "why would I have a bank account? I don't make enough money to have one"

So I gave her a ATM card and there's money in the account for her to use.

Posted by: Arnold

Hello Spamer,

Who's name is on the ATM card?

All money transfers that go to a country are logged.

What ever comes out of a bank teller machine is basically a money transfer, too. Especially if you are not in the country when funds are withdrawn. It looks suspicious.

Does your friend know she still has to report this income to her government, and pay taxes on it?
I think up to 40%, because it is a gift!

I am just asking, because you personally might get in trouble, if your name is on the card, someone who is jealous that your friend has you to support her, might turn you in for tax evasion.

What do you think?

What if not paying taxes would have a negative impact on being able to get married in the future etc.?

I hope you did not send a card with a credit card logo on it, because if the card is in your name you are liable for any, say purchases of cars, computer equipment etc. Just a thought, since others might be reading this as well!

Best wishes, Arnold

Posted by: ConnerVT

Arnold, chill out.

Many guys do the same thing as spammer (myself included).

No one is checking ATM logs against Russia's passport control database. The woman is basically anonymous when using the ATM machine. Unless someone has reported the card being used fraudulently, no one is going to review any videotape and track her down. RW should be wise enough to keep things like this quiet. They know the dangers, for they live with them every day.

As far as taxes go, most people are using an ATM card to transfer relatively small amounts of money, and avoiding WU charges. I don't imagine people are transferring money to buy cars or apartments with an ATM card.

The ATM card must have a VISA or Master Card logo, or else it will not work outside the US networks. These are debit cards, not credit cards. They can only have as much money that is in the account withdrawn (or charged) against them.

If one choses to do this, a couple of pointers:
-- Open a separate account which the card can only access. Don't keep large amounts of money in the account. Rather, move money in there to be withdrawn only when needed. Not because your g/f may spend it, but in case the card is lost or stolen.
-- Do not get the overdraft protection! The idea is if the account balance is zero, it isn't siphoning money out of your other account(s).

Posted by: Arnold

Hi Conner,

Let me ask you something, first you discourage people to send money, based on your own opinions about "dating" women, and then you insult, and belittle people about voiceing their opinion, and to boot you admit that you are "sending money", what's up with that?

I thought, we are supposed to help one another on this site?

I don't care how you handle your money, it is your responsibility!

Personally, I would never send a card with a credit card logo, because if it falls in the wrong hands, your ass is on the line. It is my understanding that Russia is still a very corrupt place, and I am sure you can buy large ticket items with a stolen credit card, if you know the right people, and contrary to your opinion, it does not matter, if you have a secured card with zero balance, or not.

Look, I am not saying anything negative about your lady, all I am trying to do is caution people.

Please, don't be naive, "Mother Russia" needs hard currency, and sooner or later she will catch on. Perhaps you get lucky. I hope, you will, because I don't like paying the 40% in tax either. This will not go on forever, because to many people are doing it already. Why be cheap and take a chance on your future happiness? I would not be surprised, if your lady does pay taxes on the money, but just does not discuss it with you...

On priciple alone, I think, a money card can be a good thing, for emergencies, etc.

Citibank actually has now, banks in Moscow it is doing business with. So if you are hell bend on sending a card send one of theirs, because it has no credit card logo! It is called the Citibank Access Account. It is a program that was rolled out for Hispanics with family abroad, but the bank rep assured me it would work in Moscow at the affiliated bank's money machines as well. Minimum balance is zero. Monthly charge is $3, and you do not have to be one of their customers. If you are a Citibank customer, there is no monthly charge!
There is only one problem, I found with this account. It is possible to apply for a Citibank credit card without a social security number, but I think you could cover your ass by drawing up an official statement at the branch you are opening this account, to, for example, password protect it.

I hope, this helps.

Best wishes, Arnold

Posted by: spamer

Arnold
I understand your worry, but really I have it under control. If the card is used improperly I can report it stolen or refuse the charge. I trust my fiancee. She only uses the card in emergency or when I tell her to do so.
I asked the bank to put it in her name but they wouldn't because she had to be there in person to do so. So it is in my name.

If I plan to marry this woman, trust has to start somewhere. This seems like a good place to start.

Thanks once again for your warning.

Posted by: Arnold

Hello Basil,

this one is for you.

If you can afford it, just go there! Check it out. You might fall in love!

You saw what happened, when you asked us about sending money... Need I say more?

We don't have your answers. You must do what you feel is right!

Suggest a first meeting at her place, and if she is on the level, she should agree. Don't pay for a vacation for her though, unless it is just a train trip away. Also have her put up the money first, then pay her when you get there, in order to avoid the taxes.

There are a couple of insightfull threads on this site about traveling to meet your lady...

Best wishes, Arnold

Posted by: Arnold

Hi Spamer,

I am happy, that you are happy.

Am I on the German Discussion Forum, because nobody seems to understand what I am writing?

I am not talking about any of your sweeties!

If the card gets lost in the mail, the person who sends it will not know about it until it is to late.

So if you guys have to hand out cards, at least do it in person, or try out the Citibank deal.

But then again, it is your credit history on the line not mine!

Best wishes, Arnold

Posted by: ConnerVT

Arnold, I never have sent money to someone I am writing. The ATM card is in the hands of my fiancée, whom I will be traveling to Russia for my fourth trip this year. So my advice on sending money to someone you have never met is still consistent.

Also, if you think "Chill out" is insulting and belittling, you need to get some thicker skin. People tend to play kinder on this forum than on others, but it still is the Internet. And in Russia, you will find the people even more direct. So you are going to need to roll with the punches. I said "Chill out" because you were yelling doom and destruction to a practice that many people do without problem.

Are you American or German? Also, in an earlier thread, you asked what things commonly cost in Russia. Have you been there yet? I am an American, who works in the finance industry, who has visited several cities in Russia. I'm not shooting from the hip. Are you?

As far as I handle my money -- Yes, this is my responsibility. But I can say the $200 I initially opened the account with is still untouched, and we discuss each expenditure covered by the cash I have left my fiancée. This is what you get when you love a Chief Accountant.

We both agree that the ATM card is for occasional transfers of money. Not as we are accustomed to here in the US, where we go in the convenience store, buy some gum and a soda, and get $20 cash back from our card.

You are incorrect in the differences between a credit card and a bank debit card (which is not the same as a secured credit card). As much as the advertising says it works just like a credit card, it doesn't. Your only liability with a debit card is for the amount you have on account at the time of the transaction. This is why I suggested placing a small amount of money in an isolated account. Also, it has no effect on your credit history. I work in the lending industry, and look at several hundred tri-merged credit reports each year. A debit card account is not considered credit, for it is only giving you back the money you already own.

Per the regulations of the Patriot Act, all banking accounts (including credit cards, mortgages, consumer loans) require a SS# (or T.I.N.) and date of birth. I don't know how Citibank can get around this for accounts in the US.

What was overlooked in my original post is that giving money to someone you barely know will certainly change the dynamic of the relationship. As so many people are concerned if their honey really wants to be with them, or is she looking to escape her financial hardships, adding money to the equation can only make finding the answer even more difficult.

Posted by: Arnold

Hello Conner,

sorry for having ruffled your feathers! I thought, your skin is a little thicker as well, since you seem quite capable of dishing it out! My bad. Let's forget about it and move on, shall we?

Thank you for clearing up some of the misconceptions I had about this matter, and enlightening me in regard to the diffrences in cards available.

Yes, I have been to Moscow and St. Petersburg, but my info is slightly outdated, and I would be happy, if you could share some of the info you want to volunteer. Please, don't make me beat it out of you again, it's to aggrevating. I think, for both of us!

The Citibank thing is straight off their brochure, that I got from the rep. Be my guest, check it out. The SS# issue blew my mind.

In regard to adding money to the equation, all I have to say is, that it can work both ways. As you pointed out your girlfriend has still not touched the original xfer. I think that shows that she does not care about your money! Ergo, she has to be interested in you! This is exactly one of the points I was trying to make, maybe, I did not get around to it?

I will try in the future not to step on anybodies toes, or put my foot in my mouth, what ever it takes to keep the flow of info moving, I will try my best to accomodate you. Of course, I will expect no less of you in regard to me.

Upfront, I thank you for your cooperation.

Only two choices for nationality, how come?

Best wishes, Arnold

Posted by: ConnerVT

No problem on this end, Arnold. There are several here that have a wealth of information. And a few will tell you that I can throw a pretty good argument. Though I try to behave myself, as that is the culture on this forum.

I have shared this here (and in other places) before. The first thought guys need to get out of their heads is that they are rescuing a woman from the FSU. As much as it's a "Guy Thing" to swoop in like a shining knight, it's not the basis for a strong, lifelong relationship. A much happier and healthier relationship will be founded in common interests, compatible personalities, and an overall caring and desire for one another. Sure, a woman will not want to bet her life on a guy desolute, living in a homeless shelter or refridgerator box! But if a woman has more interest in your asset statements than your accountant does...

For my fiancee and me, the most difficult part of our relationship is what she will leave behind to be with me. She has a good job (14 years in the same place, with several people working under her), a nice flat, and much of her family live in her city. It would make her happy if I could live in Russia. But it would be unrealistic for me to support a family if I did that.

She has chosen me over that. She still has her reservations, wanting to first see that the home I'll provide will be good for her 5 y.o. son. We're not talking Saddam palaces here -- just a safe, warm home and good school. And of course, a good family life.

I think I have found my special woman...

Posted by: Arnold

Hello Conner,

I think this is great! I am happy for you. Again thanks, for this honest statement about your motivations. That is the kind of info I am looking for. I agree with you on everything you said, I could not have said it better myself!

Perhaps, I freaked myself out about the money thing, and you are right again, finding a woman should not turn into a rescue mission.

Thanks, also for "slapping" some sense into me earlier!

Could you answer some of my questions I posted in the German/Russian Forum? As you have seen, I am trying to have it in both languages. I'll translate what you post, if you like?

In regard to your warning about Russians being very "direct", it's all right. I have dealt with them in the past, and we hit it off pretty good. I prefer to play nice, but I can play rough as well, and if it is in good humor great, if not I will ignore it.

Good luck to you and your lady regarding your pursuit of love and happiness, and as always, best wishes, Arnold

Posted by: ShermanAtlanta

One thing I did before I met Lena was to send her a set of the Pimsleur English lessons on CD. There are 36 lessons and if you are going to be a while before you meet her it might help her to communicate with you. It teaches basic conversations such as ordering dinner etc. As far as sending money before you meet someone, if you plan to meet her, why not send a little so the girl can afford to take time off from work. If you get scammed just make sure it is only for a little bit. Maybe I was lucky that my wife was so sincere but you have to take a chance. As for me, I trusted the agency I used since I had used them once before. If you trust the agency, you can probably trust that they know the girls that they list. The girl with the agency I used still calls my mother in law to see how we are doing and she emails us all of the time to say hello. If you are worried about losing a few hundred dollars, I wouldn't suggest a Russian Fiance'. But if you find a wife like mine, you will never worry about the expense. Good luck.

Sherman

Posted by: Tex

Hello Basileus,

Once many guys have found what they think is a sincere woman, many will pay for a ladies I-net expense for a month.

I-net will average $1 an hour with exceptions being in Moscow and St. Pete where it will be $2/$3 an hour.

In an attempt to deal directly with a lady the $20 investment for a months i-net is not a bad idea. During one month of corresponding most guys will know if the lady is real or not. Sometimes it might take two months. If during the first month the guy see's too many flags, feels she is a scammer, you have lost $20, the price of doing business.

It is true that guys should not send money to ladies they are communicating with but in the same sense we do need to cover some of their expense's to communicate with us.

Posted by: raed1971

hello there .
i got an email fro russian girl . i got alot of pictures , 2 or 3 everytime she sends an email . everything looks good , she said she got my email address from a moslim marriage site , so she sent me her pictures with the scarf on her head and her body is covered and she looks like 8 years younger than what she looks in the westren clothes .
she told me she has no computer , no phone and she will try to call me from a pay phone , i felt sorry for here and i sent her an email to tell me how much it will cost to buy a cell , i am still waitting for her answer ......................
what should i do , what should i ask , what should i say .
the only thing that makes me confused in that all here emails recieved at 4:00 am ,
help me please

Posted by: That1Guy

I also went the bank card route, and have had no problems to date (other than the card was stolen once with mother-in-law's purse - no charges though). My mother-in-law now has the card, and it works fine and no ridiculous WU charges!

Raed1971,

I would slow this down a little. She did email you from somewhere, and personally, I would ask her to communicate with this for awhile until you learn more about one another. Maybe I am more cautious than some, but I would not send her anything until I was reasonably sure she is who she claims to be at a very minimum.

Good luck!

guy