The Russian Meeting Place: A place to meet people and talk about all things Russian...

International Discussions about Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Travel, Music, Russian News, Ukrainian culture, Belarusian Dating, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, Kiev and other intelligent topics about life in the former Soviet Union.

     


                                

              

Pages: 1

Am I getting scammed!!?!?!

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: Soulshine79

First of all let me get the major deatails out of the way.
1. met her on u.s. singles site
2. she asked for personal email
3. her profile disappeared
4. her email address changed from .yahoo to .gmail(google mail i think)
5. she wants to meet but knows i have a child and financial obligations that limit the help i could give.(not sending a dime)

Okay having stated all that. She first offered to meet me if I flew to kazan. I explained my child support payments and inability to travel at this time. Her attention hasn't waivered. She simply stated that she would travel here and expressed her excitement to see how I lived day to day. She has previously stated she graduated from a medical university in 2002 and that she has traveled previously to parts of europe. Okay, now she wrote stating that a travel agent explained to her a u.s. visa was hard to obtain. She again stated to me her resolve and that issue of money would not stop her from traveling. If nurses in Russia are paid like nurses in the states then I can see her having enough money to be self reliant. I am ignorant to those specifics. Help, does this sound like a scam. If more info is needed ask, because I would like a informed opinion on this matter. Also I have asked for her phone number and will probably receive her reply tomorrow. How do international calls from a u.s. cell phone get charged. Anywhere in the stats is local calling what about overseas. Any help would be appreciated!!!!!!!!! Also can someone explain to me the Russia to U.S. visa, difficulties, and must know info...

"the shine"


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulshine79
First of all let me get the major deatails out of the way.
1. met her on u.s. singles site
2. she asked for personal email
3. her profile disappeared
4. her email address changed from .yahoo to .gmail(google mail i think)
5. she wants to meet but knows i have a child and financial obligations that limit the help i could give.(not sending a dime)

Okay having stated all that. She first offered to meet me if I flew to kazan. I explained my child support payments and inability to travel at this time. Her attention hasn't waivered. She simply stated that she would travel here and expressed her excitement to see how I lived day to day. She has previously stated she graduated from a medical university in 2002 and that she has traveled previously to parts of europe. Okay, now she wrote stating that a travel agent explained to her a u.s. visa was hard to obtain. She again stated to me her resolve and that issue of money would not stop her from traveling. If nurses in Russia are paid like nurses in the states then I can see her having enough money to be self reliant. I am ignorant to those specifics. Help, does this sound like a scam. If more info is needed ask, because I would like a informed opinion on this matter. Also I have asked for her phone number and will probably receive her reply tomorrow. How do international calls from a u.s. cell phone get charged. Anywhere in the stats is local calling what about overseas. Any help would be appreciated!!!!!!!!! Also can someone explain to me the Russia to U.S. visa, difficulties, and must know info...

"the shine"


Soulshine

Welcome to RMP you will gets lost of advice here. Firstly for a lady from the FSU to visit the US is almost impossible to get a visa for her. Second it is harder still if you two have never met. Third, if you are going to meet go and visit her in her home town. Forth, get her phone number and call her, if she gives it to you, make sure you call her and make it clear to her what kind of time scale you would be able to visit her. If it is a long time in the future, not many FSU women would wait longer than say 6 months to meet you. Some will understand but most are looking for long term relationships and have plenty of guys to choose from rather than having to wait for a long time for someone to visit them. Also bear in mind, only around 5% of guys who write to women in FSU actually visit them, the women know this, so to put off a meeting for a long period of time is not in their interest. However, you don't know how you will get along even so you need to communicate for a while and talk on the phone as much as possible.

If she won't give you her phone number and comes up with all sorts of reasons why she cannot, it is probably not looking good.

There are plenty of US guys and ladies on here that will tell you in a lot more detail why it is so hard to for her to get a visa to visit the US.

Anythng else, just ask.
Chris


Posted by: GREGK

I imagine that she will tell you she can get a visa but that she will need some financial assistance ( possibly just a few hundred dollars and perhaps even at the "last minute"). You can play this out but at some point it will probably become apparent that she is a scammer. IMHO


Posted by: Spakoyna

Most cellphones are quite expensive. You can call your carrier and ask about the rates. Some offer international plans which are somewhat reasonable. Prepaid calling cards are usually the cheapest unless you can do skype or some other internet calling program.


Posted by: vic2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulshine79
Okay having stated all that. She first offered to meet me if I flew to kazan.
The good sign is that, she was happy for you to visit her in Kazan, before she talked of visiting you.

You'll see a lot of posts here about how poor people in Russia are. And, believe me a nurse does not earn much money. However, money is widely available; HP, loans, holidays on the never never. Russians are borrowing and spending like never before. A lot of this boom is built on property values which have increased greatly. An ordinary apartment in central St Petersburg can cost $150,000.

It's possible she can afford it. But you'll have to take a very firm stand and explain that you are happy to sponsor her, accommodate her and take her around but you cannot pay anything, whatsoever, towards her ticket or visa costs (assuming she can get a visa).

If you are prepared to pay anything towards her costs. Make sure its only reimbursement, when she's with you.


Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:
Originally Posted by GREGK
I imagine that she will tell you she can get a visa but that she will need some financial assistance ( possibly just a few hundred dollars and perhaps even at the "last minute"). You can play this out but at some point it will probably become apparent that she is a scammer. IMHO



This is my thougth also but if it was me I would just play it out and see were it goes.


Posted by: EasyTarget

Hello there Soulshine
Talking to her on the phone for a few months will quickly erase(or confirm) the scammer aspect from your mind.
Everyone is so quick to point or suspect that the person is a scammer. If you call from your cell phone expect to pay $1.00 - $3.00 per minute for international calls. I would suggest you look for pre-paid calling cards on the web.

She most likely does not realize how difficult obtaining a US visa is for someone from Russia.

The only real warning sign is the changing of email addresses, HOWEVER, almost every girl I know has multiple email addresses. Some of their friends reply to one address, other friends this address...etc... For instance my friend Nadia has 7 email addresses. I finally had to ask which one she wanted me to write too. And there is no way she is a scammer since I met her through couchsurfing.


Posted by: ira156

Welcome Soulshine. I think things at this stage show good signs. As pointed out her first choice is for you to visit her in Kazan, you have told her that money is an issue at the moment for you.....still interested. She has gone to the trouble of seeing a travel agent and knows it is difficult to get a visa to the US......still interested and shes prepared to pay for herself.

Dont jump the gun....call her using the cheep options ( see threads here regarding calling cards) ...establish a connection......if you click then discuss your position in more detail and explore the alternatives. You can always meet in another country ...one thats more affordable for you to visit.

She may come from a family that has money....she may have inherited money ....the list goes on. Tell her in detail the day to day life you have and the reasons why finances are tight at the moment. Dont rush and uf there is a connection do what you can to go there and meet her...get a second job ect ect. Just remember rules 1 to 20 DONT SEND MONEY!!!! Good luck it sounds promising


Posted by: Manchester

Is she called Natalya by any chance?


Posted by: Soulshine79

okay well here comes the "fishy" part. she replied to the email regarding her phone number and also our regular correspondence. in regards to normal topics, she says she met with agent and he has given her alot of hope about the visa. supposedly she is filling out a questionaire and having photos made today. the kicker is she casually brushed off the phone number question and asked me to and I quote, "send your number to i can reach to you by mail". this was disturbing but I'm gonna make another effort in case translation has something to do with this. i appreciate everyones advice. don't worry bout me in regards to money. i have none to send in the first place and wouldn't anyways. i have dated on the internet before, in fact had a great relationship with a girl from california, we met many times and shared some great memories. this never concerned money or in convenience and its my landmark for any future "relationships/friendships" with anyone i meet behind the cyberspace bubble. will keep you posted and keep your idea's coming.


Posted by: Cheburashka

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulshine79
don't worry bout me in regards to money. i have none to send in the first place and wouldn't anyways.


I just want to make sure that you aware of one thing: getting a wife from FSU is a very expensive proposition.

Good luck, and go for that phone number.


Posted by: I/O

Soulshine79 This is probably not what you hoped for in this thread, but there is one or two hard nosed bastages like me around who are prepared to try to balance all of this a bit. There is far too many people who will blow hot air up your bum and tell you it is all good, or at least stop short of warning you to the extent you should be warned.

If you are not in a financial position to go visit now and are not likely to be in the near future, bluntly you shouldn't even be thinking about this at all. You are wasting your own and some Russian womans time. You will be up for several trips however you approach this and if you imagine she will pay for a trip and then you might do the K-1 visa thing in the hope of long term success, you are sadly deluded. That is a crash and burn looking for a place to happen. Think in terms of 20k at least to get this thing to marraige stage, perhaps 30k and then the expenses start. Think about that.

As for the scamming thing, it is showing all the hallmarks to me of being just that. But frankly I don't think that is the real issue you have to deal with right now. I think a big self appraisal and reality check is the real issue at this point in time. Plenty of time to get scammed later when you can afford to get serious about all this.


Posted by: Manchester

This sounds like Fat Yuri to me.

Soulshine - There is no visa happening for someone you havent met nor even talked to on the phone. Get over it.

If her name is Natalya, I can give you a link that may identify her/him.

PS - Kazan cannotbe likened to California.


Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
Soulshine79not in a financial position to go visit now and are not likely to be in the near future, bluntly you shouldn't even be thinking about this at all. You are wasting your own and some Russian womans time. You will be up for several trips however you approach this and if you imagine she will pay for a trip and then you might do the K-1 visa thing in the hope of long term success, you are sadly deluded. That is a crash and burn looking for a place to happen. Think in terms of 20k at least to get this thing to marraige stage, perhaps 30k and then the expenses start. Think about that.
.


Yes that is what I have been thinkng. I am in for more than 10k and still have not even have found the correct women.


Posted by: pulsar1

I agree with I/O.
You must have the means to go through with the whole process.
Still looking myself


Posted by: Soulshine79

well it is indeed a scam...all was perfect she says, then she tells me she paid 450 for her visa and hit me up for air fare...if i had not been brutally honest about not having the means i'd understand....she acts as if i never stated i am not financially able to travel or contribute to her travel...oh well...she wouldn't give a phone number and when given mine she hasn't called so no big loss...i had no intentions of marriage nor am i looking to get married...i thought i was talking to a hot russian woman who simply wanted to be friends and then started talking about visiting...for the few of you preaching about me needing a reality check maybe you should check yours...after all women are passing you each day on the street while you are trying to win a woman you can't see from russia...for those who have found love this way please don't let that offend you for you have what you searched for...however the rest should try their hand out in there own neighborhood before they cast disparages to me...i for one extend myself to real women i can touch and see regularly, not sit behind a screen and touch myself to all the foreign girls who'll send a pic and a email ...thanks for those of you who had helpful responses...and this is soulshine over and out!!!!!!!!!!


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulshine79
well it is indeed a scam...all was perfect she says, then she tells me she paid 450 for her visa and hit me up for air fare...if i had not been brutally honest about not having the means i'd understand....she acts as if i never stated i am not financially able to travel or contribute to her travel...oh well...she wouldn't give a phone number and when given mine she hasn't called so no big loss...i had no intentions of marriage nor am i looking to get married...i thought i was talking to a hot russian woman who simply wanted to be friends and then started talking about visiting...for the few of you preaching about me needing a reality check maybe you should check yours...after all women are passing you each day on the street while you are trying to win a woman you can't see from russia...for those who have found love this way please don't let that offend you for you have what you searched for...however the rest should try their hand out in there own neighborhood before they cast disparages to me...i for one extend myself to real women i can touch and see regularly, not sit behind a screen and touch myself to all the foreign girls who'll send a pic and a email ...thanks for those of you who had helpful responses...and this is soulshine over and out!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Soulshine. Sorry to hear ...and you sound a little p!ssed off.....understandable. But i doubt that there are many guys here "touching themselves to all the foreign girls that have sent a pic". The reality check that the guys were refering to was related to the expense involed ....not you motives. If you are happy to look in your own backyard...thats cool....but understand that if you wish to continue down this path then you need to realise that MOST of the women are seeking a lifelong partner....nit just a fling or penpal. Good luck in whatever pursuit you take.


Posted by: vic2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulshine79
...for the few of you preaching about me needing a reality check maybe you should check yours...after all women are passing you each day on the street while you are trying to win a woman you can't see from russia...for those who have found love this way please don't let that offend you for you have what you searched for

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
The reality check that the guys were refering to was related to the expense involed ....not you motives. If you are happy to look in your own backyard...thats cool


I am sorry this turned out to be a scam. There are thousands of wonderful women in FSU who are seeking love and security. And, the opportunities and choice for us there, are much greater. Countless members of RMP will tell you that, the expense and wait was well worth it.
Before I found my wonderful Russian girl, I had had just two replies, in six months, to my UK internet dating site.

However, Ira is right, it is not a cheap option and $20,000, seems to be the sort of amount you should be budgeting for, to make this dream come true. However, a lot of this expense is on 'holidays' in FSU . So, at least you get some real enjoyment from spending it! You can also spread it over a couple of years, if you want to take things a step at a time.

I wish you the best of luck in your quest to find a loving partner. And dont give up on the Russian aspect. For me, this has been a fantastically, exciting, rollercoaster of a ride, which I would not have missed for anything! No reality check needed here, thank goodness.


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulshine79
well it is indeed a scam...all was perfect she says, then she tells me she paid 450 for her visa and hit me up for air fare...if i had not been brutally honest about not having the means i'd understand....she acts as if i never stated i am not financially able to travel or contribute to her travel...oh well...she wouldn't give a phone number and when given mine she hasn't called so no big loss...i had no intentions of marriage nor am i looking to get married...i thought i was talking to a hot russian woman who simply wanted to be friends and then started talking about visiting...for the few of you preaching about me needing a reality check maybe you should check yours...after all women are passing you each day on the street while you are trying to win a woman you can't see from russia...for those who have found love this way please don't let that offend you for you have what you searched for...however the rest should try their hand out in there own neighborhood before they cast disparages to me...i for one extend myself to real women i can touch and see regularly, not sit behind a screen and touch myself to all the foreign girls who'll send a pic and a email ...thanks for those of you who had helpful responses...and this is soulshine over and out!!!!!!!!!!


Too many emotions ... Very immature speech....


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
Too many emotions ... Very immature speech....


Right on here. Another wannabe "Order in Love" type and it didn't work. Credit where credit is due, at least he came looking for information which is more than many do.

Soulshine: Nobody is preaching to you. As I said before, you probably didn't want to hear the truth and your reaction rather demonstrates that. The one point you are close to the mark on is that if anyone wants to succeed in this type of pursuit, they will need to be very patient and invest a lot of time.

Instant gratification is NOT part of this pursuit. Most of us are looking for or have found MUCH more than that.


Posted by: Cheburashka

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulshine79
i for one extend myself to real women i can touch and see regularly, not sit behind a screen and touch myself to all the foreign girls who'll send a pic and a email


What a strange response. Why are you ragging on us? We simply told you the truth.

I went back and reread your initial email and it seems like you found this lady by "sitting behind a screen and touching yourself to a foreign girl". Isn't that why you asked for help in the first place?

Oh well........


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheburashka
What a strange response. Why are you ragging on us? We simply told you the truth.

I went back and reread your initial email and it seems like you found this lady by "sitting behind a screen and touching yourself to a foreign girl". Isn't that why you asked for help in the first place?

Oh well........

I was trying to put it a little more diplomaticly Cheb .....but yep i think your right.


Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulshine79
..i had no intentions of marriage nor am i looking to get married!!!!!!!



SO

You wanted to play games?

"She" wanted to play a game?

What the problem?


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Originally Posted by cedarwind
SO

You wanted to play games?

"She" wanted to play a game?

What the problem?



hehehe +1


Posted by: Soulshine79

I think a big self appraisal and reality check is the real issue at this point in time. Plenty of time to get scammed later when you can afford to get serious about all this.[/QUOTE]

Mark me as immature but I/O was the one the "preaching" comment was aimed towards. The rest of those who responded with info were given credit as being very helpful. I/O however seemed to read alot more into my initial question on here and then responded with this self appraisal/reality check stance. Unlike some people I was not corresponding for marriage. I was corresponding because I was engaged in correspondence by the Lady in question. I asked for simple insight and some people actually read what my question was and responded with great advice. I/O however went off on a tagent that I was trying to land a wife and didn't have any degree of common sense. I/O let me just clear this up since your obviously confused about why I posted my question on here in the first place. The lady initiated the emails, we exchanged info about each other, she wanted to meet, she stated she had the means, I was honest from the beginning about my finances, their was nothing to be "serious" about. I simply was honest and forthcoming to someone who initiated interest in me. My question on here was simply did this sound like a scam. So I can't see where my reality needs check. I was not asking her for anything just exchanging emails. As far as the "touching...." comment hey even I can admit that was a bit drastic. But hey to me when someone starts in on reality check and self appraisal statements based on their assumption that I had some motive in the first place is out of line as well. Wanted to know if this sounded like a scam so I didn't waste time writing emails every morning. I/O I wanted to know if it was a scam so I wasn't having my time wasted. Most all responses were helpful and few were making broad based assumptions and like I said earlier thanks for the help. I/O again I think if you read my questions you could have eliminated the assumptions which drew you to put me on a "reality check". Reality is that I'd love to meet new people and see what happens, your assumption was that like alot of folks on this site that I was trying to find love. I/O if you were offended then I guess we are even, anyone else then I should have directed my response directly to I/O and I apologize for my broad based statements.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulshine79
I think a big self appraisal and reality check is the real issue at this point in time. Plenty of time to get scammed later when you can afford to get serious about all this.


Mark me as immature but I/O was the one the "preaching" comment was aimed towards. The rest of those who responded with info were given credit as being very helpful. I/O however seemed to read alot more into my initial question on here and then responded with this self appraisal/reality check stance. Unlike some people I was not corresponding for marriage. I was corresponding because I was engaged in correspondence by the Lady in question. I asked for simple insight and some people actually read what my question was and responded with great advice. I/O however went off on a tagent that I was trying to land a wife and didn't have any degree of common sense. I/O let me just clear this up since your obviously confused about why I posted my question on here in the first place. The lady initiated the emails, we exchanged info about each other, she wanted to meet, she stated she had the means, I was honest from the beginning about my finances, their was nothing to be "serious" about. I simply was honest and forthcoming to someone who initiated interest in me. My question on here was simply did this sound like a scam. So I can't see where my reality needs check. I was not asking her for anything just exchanging emails. As far as the "touching...." comment hey even I can admit that was a bit drastic. But hey to me when someone starts in on reality check and self appraisal statements based on their assumption that I had some motive in the first place is out of line as well. Wanted to know if this sounded like a scam so I didn't waste time writing emails every morning. I/O I wanted to know if it was a scam so I wasn't having my time wasted. Most all responses were helpful and few were making broad based assumptions and like I said earlier thanks for the help. I/O again I think if you read my questions you could have eliminated the assumptions which drew you to put me on a "reality check". Reality is that I'd love to meet new people and see what happens, your assumption was that like alot of folks on this site that I was trying to find love. I/O if you were offended then I guess we are even, anyone else then I should have directed my response directly to I/O and I apologize for my broad based statements.[/QUOTE]
Hey Soulshine. I/O was just telling it as it is. Being new to this you will not realise that almost all the women on these sights and that send emails are one of 2 things. Genuine lovely women looking for a partner...basiclly a husband...the others are scammers. You have one other type which are good time girls...just out for fun and someone to spend money on them. If thats what you are after then good luck.

This is the reality check that I/O was refering to.

So really whether you are prepared to marry one...be scammed or travel over to have fun ,,,it will be expensive.

FSU women have scammers too..they call them keyboard romeos that waste what little time and money they have pursuing guys playing games with them....im not saying that you are like this.....just how you will be percieved,

There are heaps of threads on here that will give you heaps of info on everything you need to know. Wether you go down this track or decide to go another way ...good luck.


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulshine79
I/O if you were offended then I guess we are even,


Soulshine79: For the record, no I wasn't offended in the slightest. However your response seems to infer that you were offended. I would suggest you "Get over it" and again it is advice with the best of intentions which you seemed to miss in the first place.

Why? If simple straight forward advice, based on a deal of practical experience and a reasonable knowledge of Russian women, gained over a few years is offensive, then whether or not you plan to meet a Russian woman just for fun or for something more serious, I suggest you don't. Again, why? Because they can often be a helluva lot blunter than I am.

My opinion in my opening post regarding this one being a scammer was posted clearly enough and guess what...................

There is a particularly crazy notion which floats among many freshmen and that is that it just might be possible to sit home and she just might arrive. Hence my "Order in love" remark. Love being a generic term in this instance. I called you out for imagining you might do something that 1000 before you have tried and I did that for two reasons. 1) To asssit you to save your own skin, (Which BTW seems rather thin) and 2) As I said early, balance the BS when others are not prepared to tell it how it is. (I sensed that was about to happen in this thread)

There is far too many who will sit in the Rah Rah stands and tell you "Go for it, it's all good". These people lead the newer ones right into a crash and burn by all their kindly words and then run away and say "Oh how awful" when it all goes toes up. We saw a huge example of it right on this board in the last 6 months. These Rah Rah lot are in fact to a large extent responsible for some real heartache and they rather disgust me.

The point is Soulshine, a genuine friend is one who sees danger and calls the warning in a way that gets the attention of the one in danger. You can make your own choice if I fit that criteria or not. I ain't all nice, but I ain't all bad either.


Posted by: Cheburashka

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
Because they can often be a helluva lot blunter than I am.


Amen Brother!!!! I have yet to find anyone who will "tell it like it is" more than a Russian woman. When I first started having dealings with them, I actually got offended a few times. Not because they were saying something that was untrue. But I was more used to the "southern manners". For instance, we would never tell a fat person that they were fat and needed to lose weight. It is the truth. But people who aren't used to total honesty will get put-off.

Now, I actually appreciate people who don't care about being "PC" and communicate with total honesty. I guess I am just too tired of game playing and walking on egg shells.


Posted by: bingism

Hi I/O..... I understand what you mean..... however, sometimes, a little diplomacy is better.... not in this case though since the original poster was obviously far more tuned in than us regular "schmucks"


Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheburashka
Amen Brother!!!! I have yet to find anyone who will "tell it like it is" more than a Russian woman.


HAHAHHA you had me laughing for sometime, thinking of a few friends of mine.

Yes this is very true of most all the Russian women I have meet or corresponded with. If I ever want a true to the point opinion of a idea or of a women I am writing to all I got to do is ask one of my Russian female friends....But you better be ready to hear the truth in no uncertain terms

and the other part is they EXSPECT you to follow what they tell you.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by cedarwind
HAHAHHA you had me laughing for sometime, thinking of a few friends of mine.

Yes this is very true of most all the Russian women I have meet or corresponded with. If I ever want a true to the point opinion of a idea or of a women I am writing to all I got to do is ask one of my Russian female friends....But you better be ready to hear the truth in no uncertain terms

and the other part is they EXSPECT you to follow what they tell you.

Ah yes the old "why ask my advice if you dont take it"


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by bingism
Hi I/O..... I understand what you mean..... however, sometimes, a little diplomacy is better.... not in this case though since the original poster was obviously far more tuned in than us regular "schmucks"


Bingism No arguement from me on the diplomacy thing. Never was MY greatest strength, but I do admire those who can walk that road. No point in me trying to be something I am not.

When I smell danger, I yell pretty loud and straight because the static on the side often muffles the facts. I don't enjoy seeing anyone get hurt in this caper on either side. Whether it is someone from the west who lacks experience and simply gets caught in the hype or a Russian woman who is genuinely seeking a decent partner.

I've said before to people who get their panties all up in a buch over the facts, if I didn't care I wouldn't write. The trick with all of this is whether or not you like the mode of delivery is beside the point, pick out the facts and if one can learn something, be grateful and move on. Don't throw out facts because they weren't candy coated enough in the delivery. I seem to recall some advice from years back that went something like.."Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater".

The facts here are, the guy was hooked up to a scammer, in his present position he has no hope of hooking up with a Russian woman who is living in the FSU, but he was just smart enough to ask a couple of questions. If he continues to be just smart enough to do a reality check and re-organises his lifestyle/finances then I wouldn't be surprised if he has enough about him to make the grade. But like it or not, it's a tough school at every turn.

FWIW


Posted by: vic2012

The title says it all. Am I getting scammed? So who’s to say YES you are!

Some people here, are far too quick to jump in and say “get rid”

And it’s no use excusing oneself by saying diplomacy isn’t my thing or when I smell danger I yell. Fine, if it’s your OWN danger. This is dealing with someone else’s life and emotions.

If something comes up on RMP which smells fishy. It’s probably fish and there’s nothing wrong in advising someone of that and imparting the wisdom gained from ones experiences. But unless you can actually see it or taste it, NO ONE can be 100% sure. It could be something entirely different!

So, in these circumstances, I believe that members should avoid being offensive or confrontational. And, caution and advice should be given on the basis of, you can hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. (and, NEVER send money!!!!!)


Posted by: I/O

Vic: I hear where you are coming from, BUT you are talking a bit of B/S because any single Russian woman claiming to be able to get a visa and want to come visit in the first few letters is a scammer. Be real about it.

This is exactly the way many approached GTR's situation. It was blindingly obvious from pretty early on what was going on and all the guys who said yes yes carefully carefully pretty much helped him to walk right into it.

That will not be very popular but it is the way it is. I am convinced by sitting on the sidelines watching, that if GTR had been given a bit more firm treatment right from the start, the whole debacle might never have happened.

If my style is not welcome here, so be it, but I for one won't stand by and see that situation repeated. I feel immensely sorry for GTR and his situation cut pretty deep with me. I happen to think that a goodly number of the members here were at least partly responsible for that. Sure, he is a man and and can make his own choices, but some around here acted much less than the friends they claimed to be. I wouldn't like to see that happen to another freshman.


Posted by: vic2012

Strangely enough I/O I didn’t have a problem with your initial response to Sunshine. It was accurate and was mainly about his means. And , you told him that his situation had the hallmarks of a scam. No problem.

It’s the holier than thou attitude, later on that, I find offensive. The sanctimonious claptrap, of I’ve been there, I know it all. And, anyone who posts a conciliatory, cautious or upbeat note, is talking crap.

SAYS WHO?????

We were all very sad about GTR’s situation, which hopefully, looks like improving greatly. But WHO are we to TELL him what to do.

The combined knowledge of the members of RMP is encyclopaedic and it is a great advantage to anyone who asks for that knowledge. But, when all said and done, it is just knowledge. We are not here to lead anyone by the nose, or change their diapers. They must make their OWN choices. And only a fool will TELL them otherwise. For unless you have every minutia of the situation at your fingertips, though it may look blindingly obvious to you, you CANNOT know for certain what the truth of the matter really is.

This "I can read the situation a mile off" attitude, has all the hallmarks of the Lawyer who tells his client, I dont lose cases. As the client starts his jail sentence, because the lawer got it wrong, he just moves on to his next case. No come backs.

No lawyer wins every case. You cannot ALWAYS be right.

So I ask that, members be careful when they jump in with both feet, into someones elses emotional and relationship problems.

MY approach will continue to be: when things don’t look good, you can still hope for the best, as long as you prepare for the worst. And, I certainly don't have a problem with a post starting "you wont want to hear this but,"

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
any single Russian woman claiming to be able to get a visa and want to come visit in the first few letters is a scammer. Be real about it
My fiancé visited her cousin in Germany, five years ago and obtained, with little trouble, a visa as a single woman.

Yes I’m real about it. It’s unlikely to be true….BUT IT AINT IMPOSSIBLE!


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by vic2012
SAYS WHO?????


Says me. Vic get over it.


Posted by: bobjf

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
Vic: I hear where you are coming from, BUT you are talking a bit of B/S because any single Russian woman claiming to be able to get a visa and want to come visit in the first few letters is a scammer. Be real about it.

This is exactly the way many approached GTR's situation. It was blindingly obvious from pretty early on what was going on and all the guys who said yes yes carefully carefully pretty much helped him to walk right into it.

That will not be very popular but it is the way it is. I am convinced by sitting on the sidelines watching, that if GTR had been given a bit more firm treatment right from the start, the whole debacle might never have happened.

If my style is not welcome here, so be it, but I for one won't stand by and see that situation repeated. I feel immensely sorry for GTR and his situation cut pretty deep with me. I happen to think that a goodly number of the members here were at least partly responsible for that. Sure, he is a man and and can make his own choices, but some around here acted much less than the friends they claimed to be. I wouldn't like to see that happen to another freshman.


i/o you are quick to suggest that anyone posting in a way you chose not agree with is full of it or to use your words blowing hot air k your free to think what you like but by the same token i & many others here who have actually suceeded had of listened to you or a couple of others we wouldn't be were we are now ie:happily married.
i personaly had plenty of cause to run the otherway but if i had i would not be married now.
everyone is different & will approach this in there own way.
i very much doubt GTR would agree with you either, more like what happened is just life & could & has happened in the western world aswell.
he saw the signs & chose to try anyway,his choice & to sugest that he went forward because of other people is makeing lite of his thought process,are you perfect,never made a blue hmmm i doubt it & i'm damn sure i'm not either.
life is life & people are people & regardless of what others say most will make there own decissions about what they do.
your opinion does not make you any more right than the next guy.
to help someone avoid a scam is 1 thing but to say someone is wrong or silly for makeing a fast decission or waiting forever is wrong to.
every relationship is different & will play out different aswell,there is no right or wrong way just what works for the people concerned.
just like all things in life,some will work others won't.


Posted by: Spakoyna

I/O I personally think your statement that folks here led GTR into his mess is about as low a punch as you could deliver to GTR! Do you think we could persuade him to jump off a cliff since he so so gullible? That is how you make him appear!

All of us have most likely had times when we felt we should cut and run. I had a few of those times early in my relationship. I'm gonna let out a secret! I actually posted a question about my early relationship with my now wife under another username 3 or 4 years ago. If I had taken the advice I was 1st given I would not now be approaching my 3rd anniversary of a wonderful marriage!


Posted by: vic2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
Says me. Vic get over it.
Personally I/O, I couldn't give a monkey's. I'm sorted.

But, this is a forum where people often look for advice when they feel vulnerable.
So, I feel a little disappointed that you are unable to tone down your aggresive and opionated stances.


Posted by: Turboguy

I just went back and read this whole thread. I/O is, for the most part, a very wise person and most often gives advice that is good. Usually it is delivered in a fashion that is a little cold and blunt for my tastes. Still when I did re-read everything his suggestions were probably the best there.

I have been critisized elsewhere for being too much of a raw-raw guy who encourages those with little chance. Looking at the first post.

He said he met her through an American Singles Site. There are a lot of those but I will bet anyone a few dollars it was Match.com. The odds of someone pretending to be a Russian woman and being real are less than one in a 100 and I am being generous with that. I would say I know of 75 cases of people connecting with RW though Match.com and not one was real.

The odds of any young attractive single girl from the FSU who says she can get a visa and visit are 80% that she is a scammer and 19% that she is nieve and doesn't know what she is talking about. The other 1% are real and I know of two who were successful. One had a brother here and worked for the government the other left a good job, a daughter, and an apartment.

The story she told was classic scammer and add to that the other signs such as ignoring his questions and the chances get even worse.

Personally I have run into the same story dozens of times and what I usually say is to play it out to satisfy yourself but it is a scam and just whatever you do don't send money. 100% of the time they come back and say I was right. The same happened here.

I think if someone doesn't have the money or the time or the inclination to get married, then they are better off doing a google search for pen pal sites. I am sure there are lots of people who like to make friends and perhaps practice thier English and he may have fun doing something like that.

I think the ways we use are FSU women looking to get married and western men looking to find a wife. It is not the type of thing for someone who is a keyboard romeo or looking for a pen pal.

I do have to agree that a positive, helpful and understanding nature will convince more people to follow the right path than the direct "clue bat" approach which often drives them even stronger into the path of failure.

I also agree that what we get here are opinions. Some are good, some are not but we need to follow our own heart. If we make a mistake we have no one to blame but ourself.


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Originally Posted by vic2012

My fiancé visited her cousin in Germany, five years ago and obtained, with little trouble, a visa as a single woman.

Yes I’m real about it. It’s unlikely to be true….BUT IT AINT IMPOSSIBLE!


I got a multy C-Visit 6 months visa to the UK a week ago and had no problem with that at all. May be because I am too old

To be serious, Home Office does not care much if a girl is single or not, it is interested in her pay slips to make sure that purpose of her visit is tourism, she will be back to Russia, won't start working illegally and won't become a burden for British tax payers.


Posted by: Spakoyna

Turboguy,My wife told me she was on match.com for awhile. She was placed there by her agency(perhaps when it wasn't as pricy). My wife says the reason most FSU ladies don't use match.com is because it is expensive for most. She had to pay everytime she wrote on Match.com.I think perhaps now you are correct as it was probably somewhere around 5 or 6 years ago my wife was there.


Posted by: Turboguy

One of the reasons there are not real Russian women on Match.com is that you must have a credit card to pay to be listed and not many RW have one. The agencies may but I think now they mostly hook up with businesses specializing in RW such as Elena's, Anastaisa, AFA, EC and I have not heard of any reciently that use Match.

There is a big difference in getting a visa to America and getting one to the UK or to one of the European countries. Any travel agent can get one for a gal to France or Italy if she has the money for the trip, the UK is a little tougher but not much tougher. Getting one to America is really hard. I had one RW visit me who had a daughter, a good job and a flat. I had another that I wrote to but did not meet who came to America. She was early 20's, single and quite attractive. She had a brother that lived in WV and worked for the Russian Government. It can be done but the odds are not good at all.

Another clue to the scammer who we started talking about in this thread. She said she was a nurse and implied that was a high paying job as it would be here. Most nurses in a place like Kazan would make at best $ 100.00 a month. Nurses, teachers and Doctors in the FSU are very low paying jobs. The last nurse I met lived in Kharkov and told me she made $ 50.00 a month.
There were more flags flying in her information that in a Veterens day parade but they were all red.


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
There is a big difference in getting a visa to America and getting one to the UK or to one of the European countries. Any travel agent can get one for a gal to France or Italy if she has the money for the trip, the UK is a little tougher but not much tougher. Getting one to America is really hard.


I haven't tried it yet. Don't know. My colleague was there on student visa for a year (29 years old, single) but she had an offer from UCLA, so I think it was not too difficult for her.

Quote:
She said she was a nurse and implied that was a high paying job as it would be here. Most nurses in a place like Kazan would make at best $ 100.00 a month. Nurses, teachers and Doctors in the FSU are very low paying jobs. The last nurse I met lived in Kharkov and told me she made $ 50.00 a month.


Correct figures.


Posted by: ira156

I sat next to girl on the plane back to OZ after my first visit to Russia. She was 23 a doctor and in Perth for 12 months to study so it even happens here.

I/O there is right and wrong...and then there is just plain rude. Mate they say dont shoot the messenger,,,you do when he is trying to ram the message down your throat.


Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
I haven't tried it yet. Don't know. My colleague was there on student visa for a year (29 years old, single) but she had an offer from UCLA, so I think it was not too difficult for her.



Correct figures.


Yes if you have the money for college and are enrolled in it, or invited by it, it is not hard to get a visa in the US money talks. But to get a tourist visa is almost impossible.

A friend of mine and her mother from Moscow tried and they were denied. The mother owns 3 apartment buildings (The whole building) they also had more than $50,000 in a bank in Moscow but still they could not get visa.

As for work Visa I do not know, just in the last week I have meet 7 Russian women in the US, 5 could not speak any English but some how there were working at a deli I visited. I would make a guess they were relatives of the deli owner.

Another friend of mine tried to get a work visa to the US for au-par, she had spent time in Germany and Canada working but her US visa was denied even thou the job was already lined up.

I think if you tell the US you are Hispanic you will get the visa all my Brothers in-laws never have any difficulty. Seems to be a double standard.


Posted by: Turboguy

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
I/O there is right and wrong...and then there is just plain rude. Mate they say dont shoot the messenger,,,you do when he is trying to ram the message down your throat.


Oh, OK, Well, how are we gonna do this deed. Do we blindfold him, turn him around and shoot him in the back, do a firing squad, draw straws or what.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
Oh, OK, Well, how are we gonna do this deed. Do we blindfold him, turn him around and shoot him in the back, do a firing squad, draw straws or what.

Hey Turbo it was not the message it was how it was said. The initial opinion was fine. Everyone is entitled to have their opinion and thats fine too. I think im right most of the time as well...Gulity.

But to start off saying im right becasue i say it how it is and the rest of you are wrong and weak bacause you are not "saying it how it is" and incinuate that its because of "our weakness" that someone else had major misfortune is just plain egotistical and in my opinion RUDE. ENough said


Posted by: I/O

Turbo: Turn me around, do what you like, shoot me ten times, in the words of another, it won't make a "Monkey's" of difference. You for one, I have noticed over a long time are one of the "Real Gentlemen" of this game and I am probably not so the averages might work out pretty good. (maybe)

The hyprocrisy is what amuses me. Don't be too direct they say and then turn around and do exactly the same thing. When the finger is pointed, there is always three fingers pointing right back at the pointer. So yes, shoot the bloody messenger.


Posted by: Turboguy

Only 10 times I/O. I am a pretty bad shot.

I think it is funny that one of the qualities we admire in RW are that they are very direct yet sometimes when someone here is very blunt we don't seem to like it.

I do think though that a lot of good advice is wasted because of a poor delivery. I think when a message is delivered in a way people don't like, they tend to shut out the message.

Thank you for the compliment and the encouragement I/O. There are no guarantees in this endevor. I believe we will be quite fine together dispite our age difference. It is not something I would recommend for others and if it does work for us I would not want to be held up as an example of "it can work" I see us as an exception.

I think the numbers of the age difference are less important that if you have a physical attraction and if you are both able to be comfortable with the stage of life the other is at or are not at different stages with different ideas of what life should be like.


Posted by: I/O

Turbo: I don't want to get into views on your relationship. That's been hashed over enough and my view is clear enough. You're big enough and ugly enough (As we say here) to sort that out for yourself.

I beg to differ regarding disliked messages being shut out. What I see time and again is soft delivery of good sense and the recipient takes that and becuase it has been delivered softly, bends it just a little to suit his/her own purpose.

I've worked with 2 of the best coaches in the world in their chosen sports field. Both used whatever means available including some serious insults (Way more tough than I can ever mouth) to get the attention of the student. I saw many students crawl away for a few days offended, but given time they thought about it whilst they were stinging a little and came back very much the stronger, better and ultimately successful.

I apply the same principal when giving advice. My father still does the same. I don't like a lot of what he says, by by the hell I listen because I get it straight and no soft soap BS.

I have laughed quite a deal here, as the one who complained the loudest about my "Rude" delivery style is the one who used the term "Sanctimonious Clap Trap". I wonder if he doesn't see just a touch of hypocrosy in that? Probably not.

BTW guys, you mightn't agree with me about the other guy/case I mentioned, but it did get you thinking and that was the point.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
Turbo: I don't want to get into views on your relationship. That's been hashed over enough and my view is clear enough. You're big enough and ugly enough (As we say here) to sort that out for yourself.

I beg to differ regarding disliked messages being shut out. What I see time and again is soft delivery of good sense and the recipient takes that and becuase it has been delivered softly, bends it just a little to suit his/her own purpose.

I've worked with 2 of the best coaches in the world in their chosen sports field. Both used whatever means available including some serious insults (Way more tough than I can ever mouth) to get the attention of the student. I saw many students crawl away for a few days offended, but given time they thought about it whilst they were stinging a little and came back very much the stronger, better and ultimately successful.

I apply the same principal when giving advice. My father still does the same. I don't like a lot of what he says, by by the hell I listen because I get it straight and no soft soap BS.

I have laughed quite a deal here, as the one who complained the loudest about my "Rude" delivery style is the one who used the term "Sanctimonious Clap Trap". I wonder if he doesn't see just a touch of hypocrosy in that? Probably not.

BTW guys, you mightn't agree with me about the other guy/case I mentioned, but it did get you thinking and that was the point.

Well I/O we are not professional atheletes and i didnt realise that you were our couch...we are not being payed to take advice from you ..me ...or anyone. Its supposed to be a place for help and advice...and yes of course the varied opinions. I agreed with your first post and i have seen a great deal of your experience passed on that i would call good advice.

The trouble is that when you come across as i know everything and im the only one that talks straight and the rest of you havent got the balls to say what you really mean...we it closes the ears of those that can learn from a lot of what you have to say....including myself.

I wont speak for all but i am not a kid in a junior footy team wanting to be coached...and i had a Dad and dont need another one. You say that you "say it like it is" as does everyone here....to them...and they are just opinions ....yours and mine included. Remember the saying mate opinions are like ar@eholes...everyone has one.

It was me that said i found your comments rude in their delivery...but i cant remember saying anything about "sanctimonious clap trap" but hey correct me if im wrong. Cheers


Posted by: Turboguy

For the "my relationship" part, good because I agree and dont want to discuss it either.

For the other part of the post my first reaction is "Damn" Now let me explain that.

I have to back track a bit. You made a somewhat similar post a while back somewhere else that I would have really loved to disagree with you on but was unable to do so. You basically quoted something as a "proven fact" that I felt went against all proven facts, and that there was no field where it was considered to be a proven fact. Damn, you did find one. I have to agree.

Your post elsewhere said something to the effect that is is a "proven fact" that a message delivered in a direct blunt way is the most effective way of getting your message delivered. It is similar to what you are saying here.

Had I been able to challenge your statement there I would have pointed out that that is totally incorrect. That I have extensivly studied negotiation, motivation, and interpersonal relationships for decades. That not one expert would recommend that method for trying to influence someones way of thinking. That they would all consider it the absolute worst and most hopeless way of bringing someone to your way of thinking. I would have said that if I cared to spend 3 months documenting the issue I could quote 100 references that would have backed me up and I would have challenged you to show me even one instance where that method is recommended as a way of motivating people.

I have to say that you did exactly that. You did show me one field where that method of motivation is prefered, accepted and proven. You are right. In the sports field it is practiced extensivly. However the object is not to change the way people think or to enlighten them. It is to insure compliance. Actually another place where that is practiced is in the Army during basic training. In both fields you are trying to discourage thinking and to enhance the phyiscial performance. In a place like this getting someone to follow your commands like a robot is not the answer.

Actually the best way of getting someone to believe something that you want them to believe is to present your ideas in a way that it makes them believe they thought of the idea themselves. Nothing will convince someone as much as believing they found the right answer themselves.

OK, so you worked with two of the best coaches in the world. When I was younger I was one of those skinny short nerds always getting sand kicked in their face and when they were picking up teams I was always the last one standing there that whatever team was last was stuck with taking.

Since I was never going to be a star athlete I spent my life working with people. Studying some of the best experts in winning people to your ways of thinking, in motivating people. Listening to experts who are considered to be the best coaches in the world, people like Robbins, Zeigler, Karras, Hopkins, Carnegie and lots more.

All in all, if you want the people you are advising to score the winning goal you are going about it in the best possible way. If you want them to win in life, you are going about it the worst possible way.


Posted by: Turboguy

I/O, Something I will suggest. I have always believed that we can never have enough knowlege. I have always believed that all things in life should be in balance.

I would like to ask you to invest a few dollars and a few hours in balancing your knowlege. Go buy a copy of Dale Carnegie's book "How to Win friends and Influence People" It is one of the best selling books of all time and you will find it easy reading. I have read it at least 6 times. I have read a number of his other books. I have even taken the Dale Carnegie course. pm me your address and I will even buy it for you and send it to you if you will promise to read it. It will help you a lot. Do it and you will never regret it and you will be able to help people a lot more. You have a ton of knowlege and a lot of wisdom.


Posted by: Cheburashka

Thank God for all the people in my life who have rattled my cage and told me the truth. I may not have liked the way they presented their message. But sometimes harshness can keep people alive.

How many grunts in boot camp hated the way their "mentor" treated them? But then in the field, how many were grateful? Maybe we need to toughen up a little bit and quit being so spineless. We can cuddle and snuggle with the newbies all we want in a lovefest of serenity. But they will become broke after a short while.

PS: I worked with the Dale Carnegie Course for many years. And I know men in the ranks.........


Posted by: Turboguy

I have to say there is some similarity to someone visiting here after their first correspondence with a scammer on Match.com to a new boot climbing off the bus for the first day of basic training.

I am not so sure that any of us here have earned drill sargent's stripes just by making a few trips to the FSU. Since you have qulified yourself as an expert on Dale Carnegie would you care to point out to me where in any of his books or in the course he recommened that apporoach to try to infulence people.

I still feel we are adults discussing matters and should be discussing them in a way that shows mutual respect and logical thinking. Yes, if we keep telling someone something in a polite and civilized way and no mater how much we try to help they don't want to listen, then perhaps they need beaten over the head and I will hold them down for you.


Posted by: I/O

Turbo: "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". Yes Sir, I read the book 3 times 20 odd years ago. You might be surprised but as I said before, I ain't all nice, but I ain't all bad either. You might notice if you search around a bit, I don't approach every post in the exact same style. BTW, please pm me the extract of where I said "It is a proven fact". (From any board) That I would like to read in context, because frankly I doubt I wrote that. Possible but doubtful.

The bit you guys are not getting here is this. Geeeeeez I dunno, let me explain it another way. I don't give a monkeys bum if or not someone agrees or not with my view, the point is being just smart enough to recognise a "Hard head" when you see one and motivate him/her to THINK. What they ultimately think is their own business. The fact that they start to think is the key to the whole business.

There was never any hope of getting the author of this thread to think like me or anyone else for that matter. I had and have no desire to try. Getting him to think about a few things is the key.

And..........no you are totally up the creek about a good sports coach or "couch" as our learned friend seems to think it is (I ain't anyones "Couch" thankyou) trying to create a robot type article that can perform an exact movement on cue. The guys I speak of coached 9 olympic gold medals (teams) over two decades between then and they both still say the same thing, get the attention and get them thinking and they will figure it out themselves.

Ira: I've had it said to me many times and I'd say the same to you. If you toss out something because you don't like the wrapper it came in, then more the fool you. That just doesn't make sense. A bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face. BTW, let's get one thing very clear, you are no mate of mine and never will be.

Cheburashka: Probably my style isn't so nice for some and that's fair enough, but like you, I know the type I want in a foxhole with me when push comes to shove. For most of these guys tracking to the FSU for the first time, it is a bit like being in a foxhole under fire. But I guess many think they gotta learn the hard way. I think some can be saved a deal of time, money and pain, but that's just MHO.

Think I've stirred the pot enough for the moment. I'll just leave you guys with one thing to ponder (If you choose to) "Don't toss the baby out with the bathwater". I'm only the bathwater, the baby is.................well go figure.




Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
Turbo: "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". Yes Sir, I read the book 3 times 20 odd years ago. You might be surprised but as I said before, I ain't all nice, but I ain't all bad either. You might notice if you search around a bit, I don't approach every post in the exact same style. BTW, please pm me the extract of where I said "It is a proven fact". (From any board) That I would like to read in context, because frankly I doubt I wrote that. Possible but doubtful.

The bit you guys are not getting here is this. Geeeeeez I dunno, let me explain it another way. I don't give a monkeys bum if or not someone agrees or not with my view, the point is being just smart enough to recognise a "Hard head" when you see one and motivate him/her to THINK. What they ultimately think is their own business. The fact that they start to think is the key to the whole business.

There was never any hope of getting the author of this thread to think like me or anyone else for that matter. I had and have no desire to try. Getting him to think about a few things is the key.

And..........no you are totally up the creek about a good sports coach or "couch" as our learned friend seems to think it is (I ain't anyones "Couch" thankyou) trying to create a robot type article that can perform an exact movement on cue. The guys I speak of coached 9 olympic gold medals (teams) over two decades between then and they both still say the same thing, get the attention and get them thinking and they will figure it out themselves.

Ira: I've had it said to me many times and I'd say the same to you. If you toss out something because you don't like the wrapper it came in, then more the fool you. That just doesn't make sense. A bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face. BTW, let's get one thing very clear, you are no mate of mine and never will be.

Cheburashka: Probably my style isn't so nice for some and that's fair enough, but like you, I know the type I want in a foxhole with me when push comes to shove. For most of these guys tracking to the FSU for the first time, it is a bit like being in a foxhole under fire. But I guess many think they gotta learn the hard way. I think some can be saved a deal of time, money and pain, but that's just MHO.

Think I've stirred the pot enough for the moment. I'll just leave you guys with one thing to ponder (If you choose to) "Don't toss the baby out with the bathwater". I'm only the bathwater, the baby is.................well go figure.

I/O my personal life is not a boot camp or an olympic event or a bloody lolly in a wrapper for that matter. As you say yourself "im just saying as it is". And as for the mate thing ...if you take offence at that....care factor 0.


Posted by: Turboguy

I/O, I was not trying to throw you or the bathwater out. You are a very knowlagable person who is an asset to any board.

I can see two sides to the coin. One is that I think if people in general (I am not pointing any fingers) respond in a rude, arrogant or insulting way that it discorages people from posting and from getting involved and drives away those we could help the most.

The other side of the coin I see is that sometimes it makes a post more interesting when someone does lay it on the line and answer in a direct manner, and yes there are people who can be reached no other way. Sometimes a little mix of the two can even make it more interesting.

I still think if someone wants to get their point across starting with presenting their ideas in a civilized, mature and helpful way is the best starting point.

There are people who just like to put others in thier place and I don't put you in that catagory. I don't think they really do any board or any newbie much good but that is just my one cent worth.


Posted by: ira156

Looking back at the initial responses i thing almost all were if not"it is a scam" then be careful...dont send money...some red flags ect ect. Funny that the only one that "told it how it is" was the only one he didnt want to listen to.


Posted by: Cheburashka

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
Funny that the only one that "told it how it is" was the only one he didnt want to listen to.


Yes, that is ironic, isn't it? I guess he should have wrapped that answer in a fluffy bunny fur coat, sprinkled with stardust and angel kisses, and put it in a box of world peace and groovy love. Then he might have listened.

Cheb about to post...........


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheburashka
Yes, that is ironic, isn't it? I guess he should have wrapped that answer in a fluffy bunny fur coat, sprinkled with stardust and angel kisses, and put it in a box of world peace and groovy love. Then he might have listened.

Cheb about to post...........

Thing is Cheb we all had pretty much the same message. And hey youve lost weight ....must be the vegitarian diet.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by vic2012
Strangely enough I/O I didn’t have a problem with your initial response to Sunshine. It was accurate and was mainly about his means. And , you told him that his situation had the hallmarks of a scam. No problem.

It’s the holier than thou attitude, later on that, I find offensive. The sanctimonious claptrap, of I’ve been there, I know it all. And, anyone who posts a conciliatory, cautious or upbeat note, is talking crap.

SAYS WHO?????

We were all very sad about GTR’s situation, which hopefully, looks like improving greatly. But WHO are we to TELL him what to do.

The combined knowledge of the members of RMP is encyclopaedic and it is a great advantage to anyone who asks for that knowledge. But, when all said and done, it is just knowledge. We are not here to lead anyone by the nose, or change their diapers. They must make their OWN choices. And only a fool will TELL them otherwise. For unless you have every minutia of the situation at your fingertips, though it may look blindingly obvious to you, you CANNOT know for certain what the truth of the matter really is.

This "I can read the situation a mile off" attitude, has all the hallmarks of the Lawyer who tells his client, I dont lose cases. As the client starts his jail sentence, because the lawer got it wrong, he just moves on to his next case. No come backs.

No lawyer wins every case. You cannot ALWAYS be right.

So I ask that, members be careful when they jump in with both feet, into someones elses emotional and relationship problems.

MY approach will continue to be: when things don’t look good, you can still hope for the best, as long as you prepare for the worst. And, I certainly don't have a problem with a post starting "you wont want to hear this but,"

My fiancé visited her cousin in Germany, five years ago and obtained, with little trouble, a visa as a single woman.

Yes I’m real about it. It’s unlikely to be true….BUT IT AINT IMPOSSIBLE!


Vic,
I agree with pretty much everything you've written here. The most anyone can say is the probability of something being a scam. Even million to one chances do happen - every day. Someone can certainly make the call that something looks like a scam but that's about it.


Posted by: vic2012

As Deccie has aired my post again, I want to take the opportunity to explain why I got so angry earlier in this thread. I had just had my knuckles rapped for urging caution in a situation which had all the hallmarks of a scam.

As Ira pointed out earlier, you do get a proportion of women who are very naïve and believe a visitor’s visa , backed by a sponsor, is easily obtained. And this woman had apparently invited the guy to Kazan first. So I added a note of possible optimism. Why do I usually do this, in this type of posting?

Eight months ago, I found myself in a situation where, had I sought help on RMP, I knew I would get conflicting advice.

My fiancé had called everything off. She was worried about a number of things, our age difference being the main consideration. Because it was hurting her to do this, she told me not to call her again, because it would only make things more difficult for both of us. After a week, Chris PM’d me to say she had set herself on a well known dating site. I couldn’t stop looking at her page. A couple of weeks later there was a message on her page saying she was having a 90% success rate.

I was absolutely gutted.

I was desperate to call her, but I kept putting it off. Firstly, she told me not to and I didn’t want to upset her. And secondly, psychologically, the longer I put off calling her, the longer I could continue to dream that, there was still a chance for both of us to be together.



Now come on guys……………If I had posted at this point to ask for your help, what would YOU have said to do?


I can almost read the responses. "Victor, you wont want to hear this but, She’s gone; she’s corresponding with someone else. GET OVER IT and move on". "There’s plenty more fish in the sea". etc. etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheburashka
: Thank God for all the people in my life who have rattled my cage and told me the truth. I may not have liked the way they presented their message. But sometimes harshness can keep people alive.
Now we come to the point I’ve been trying to make. What is THE TRUTH?. What member here can say "This IS the way it IS", just from a few lines in a posting.

Remember you are sometimes dealing with some guy’s emotional turmoil here. If you make a bad call, you could possibly ruin a lifetime’s happiness for him.

And here’s the case in point:
I called her after a month. She was so happy to hear my voice. She said she loved me and missed me very much. But after the way she had treated me, she felt too embarrassed to call me. And for the first time in years, I was moved to tears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deccie
Even million to one chances do happen - every day


So, since this time, I’ve always added a note of caution to my posts: “It looks bad, but there’s a possibility”. And anyone who accuses me of blowing smoke up their ass can take a running jump.


Posted by: Turboguy

I agree with everyone that although a visa to the European Countries is possible one to the USA is highly unlikely. The scamers using the travel and visa scam all seem to have the same modus operendai. One give away is that they most all at this time start on Match.com and virtually all inititaite the contact.

I did have one gal come here on a visa and visit me so yes, it does happen. The real plus is that some of the unsuspecting that were smart enough to know it was a scam have become interested in meeting real Russian women as a result.

When we get someone here who is conviced they are real and don't care to listen to our words, perhaps I can help them in another way. Many seem to not be able to afford a trip to Russia and my uncle was a high government official in a south african dictatorship and perhaps if they want to help me get the 153 billion dollars out that are sitting there in a numbered account I can give them enough of a bonus to just buy Russia.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by vic2012
As Deccie has aired my post again, I want to take the opportunity to explain why I got so angry earlier in this thread. I had just had my knuckles rapped for urging caution in a situation which had all the hallmarks of a scam.

As Ira pointed out earlier, you do get a proportion of women who are very naïve and believe a visitor’s visa , backed by a sponsor, is easily obtained. And this woman had apparently invited the guy to Kazan first. So I added a note of possible optimism. Why do I usually do this, in this type of posting?

Eight months ago, I found myself in a situation where, had I sought help on RMP, I knew I would get conflicting advice.

My fiancé had called everything off. She was worried about a number of things, our age difference being the main consideration. Because it was hurting her to do this, she told me not to call her again, because it would only make things more difficult for both of us. After a week, Chris PM’d me to say she had set herself on a well known dating site. I couldn’t stop looking at her page. A couple of weeks later there was a message on her page saying she was having a 90% success rate.

I was absolutely gutted.

I was desperate to call her, but I kept putting it off. Firstly, she told me not to and I didn’t want to upset her. And secondly, psychologically, the longer I put off calling her, the longer I could continue to dream that, there was still a chance for both of us to be together.



Now come on guys……………If I had posted at this point to ask for your help, what would YOU have said to do?


I can almost read the responses. "Victor, you wont want to hear this but, She’s gone; she’s corresponding with someone else. GET OVER IT and move on". "There’s plenty more fish in the sea". etc. etc.

Now we come to the point I’ve been trying to make. What is THE TRUTH?. What member here can say "This IS the way it IS", just from a few lines in a posting.

Remember you are sometimes dealing with some guy’s emotional turmoil here. If you make a bad call, you could possibly ruin a lifetime’s happiness for him.

And here’s the case in point:
I called her after a month. She was so happy to hear my voice. She said she loved me and missed me very much. But after the way she had treated me, she felt too embarrassed to call me. And for the first time in years, I was moved to tears.



So, since this time, I’ve always added a note of caution to my posts: “It looks bad, but there’s a possibility”. And anyone who accuses me of blowing smoke up their ass can take a running jump.

So true Vic. We can say what we think it is and thats fine. There was an instance quoted here of another member. Even if we had all had of given him the I/O treatment he probably wouold have gone ahead and done it anyway. The thing was that he has been able to come back and get support from the members here that he feels he can trust...even the ones that didnt agree with him. If the other approach was taken by all then he wouldnt have felt he had that support.

We dont know what the full story is with most of the things we read. If i see something i think is a scam ill say "its a scam"....if i have concerns i say "be cautious" if i have none ill say good luck. Who am i that someone is going to base a life decision on anyway??

We have already seen some stories here that we would have thought were a scam and turned out not to be ....and im sure there are many more that we dont know about. Just as there are some stories that you will read and think yep she is a keeper....only to find out otherwise later.

Its only advice and opinions....not the doctrine or THE TRUTH as layed down by A..B..or C.


Posted by: I/O

Vic: I was intending to leave you guys in peace to mull over all this for a while, but your comment about "You can just hear what I would have said" almost caused me to spit coffee all over my keyboard laughing and I couldn't help responding just a tad. (Well I could've helped, but I didn't because it was just too funny. Yes I was genuinely amused)

You guys are sitting here waffling on about opinions ARE NOT concrete and so forth and just shooting yourselves in the foot with your own arguements. Don't you see that you did not say "All opionions MAY NOT be concrete"? The more you try to build your case the more it is stacking up the other way around. You are trying to build a case against absolutes with absolutes. No irony there? I guess not.

Next point: Lets go back to my original comment about visa/scammers. I did not say she can't get one period. One of the things I said was that if she talks this in the first few letters she is a scammer. Before getting panties all bunched, read things in context.

As for your situation, you are about as far wide of the mark as possible with your assumption of what I would have suggested. I would have said that you should have discussed the age thing from end to end LONG before meeting in the first place, BUT given that you felt you were in love with this girl, I WOULD HAVE said, get off your dime and call her. Perhaps that could have also been wrong because perhaps it might have been too early, but that is what I would have said.

Irrespective, the point is here again you are sitting on a pedastool but the problem is the pedastool's base is cracked and by staying there, you're only gunna end up on the floor. Think about it.

Emotional issues: Yes under certain circumstances there is place for a variety or approachs and if you read other posts, I temper them to the approach of the author but still telling it how it is. Personally I think anyone comming into this pursuit with emotional issues shouldn't even be in this caper because Russian women are not for everyone and this is one of the toughest things anyone who succeeds will ever do. It AIN'T entry level dating.

Turbo: You didn't understand the "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water" comment. I AM only the bath water here. The Baby is much more important, that's the bit you should keep. It just seems that some havn't yet identified the "Baby" and probably never will, but they'll never do a lot of things.

BTW Guys, Happy Easter. I ain't all nice, but I ain't all bad.


Posted by: vic2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
Next point: Lets go back to my original comment about visa/scammers. I did not say she can't get one period. One of the things I said was that if she talks this in the first few letters she is a scammer. Before getting panties all bunched, read things in context.:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic2012
Strangely enough I/O I didn’t have a problem with your initial response to Sunshine. It was accurate and was mainly about his means. And , you told him that his situation had the hallmarks of a scam. No problem.
Thats different from saying it IS a scam. It's not me that's getting his panties bunched here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
As for your situation, you are about as far wide of the mark as possible with your assumption of what I would have suggested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic2012
Now come on guys……………If I had posted at this point to ask for your help, what would YOU have said to do?
Strange, you must have a bee in your bonnet about this, because this comment was not directed at you!

In fact this post was directed at those people who choose to jump in with statements of fact rather than statements of personal opinion.

I simply ask that, anyone who says "thats wrong" prefaces the statement with "In my opinion"..... thats wrong.

And, they shouldn't tell other members that, their opnions are wrong. Unless there's a bit more than hot air and aggression to back the statement up. LIKE FACTS!


Posted by: ira156

Yep I/O it certainly isnt your "normal dating" its a bloody big job that for some of us will be worth it and some it wont. We can all throw in our 2cents...some will listen and some wont.


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulshine79
well it is indeed a scam...


Vic: How's that for a fact from the original author?


Posted by: vic2012

Come on I/O. A Pyrrhic victory, if ever I saw one. Fish and barrel come to mind.

It's rather sad that, even though my last post was about a situation that occured eight months ago and was directed at the board, you took it upon yourself to be indignant.

I know, from eighteen months in RMP what answers I would have got to my question.

1. She has big issues about our compatibility.
2. she told me not to call her again.
3. shes set herself up on a dating site.
4. Shes corresponding with other men.
5. She made no effort to contact me in a month.

Should I contact her?

In my humble opinion........I would have expected a near 100% response to say...move on (and that would have been pretty fair advice, in the circumstances) It was over.

I must say, I/O that you surprise me, by saying that, you would have advised me to contact her. I think you would have been in a minority of one or two! And, if you are genuine, I thank you for that.

Anyway, since that time, when our future hung by a tiny thread and survived, I have NEVER said NEVER!

I will always point out the plus points whilst cautioning. BUT....I will NOT allow anyone to say my advice is wrong, unless they have FACTS to back it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I/O
There is far too many who will sit in the Rah Rah stands and tell you "Go for it, it's all good". These people lead the newer ones right into a crash and burn by all their kindly words and then run away and say "Oh how awful" when it all goes toes up. We saw a huge example of it right on this board in the last 6 months. These Rah Rah lot are in fact to a large extent responsible for some real heartache and they rather disgust me.
In my opnion, a disgraceful bit of posting .

As I tend to offer cautious encouragement to Newbies, (Rah Rah as you put it) I would be appalled if I was " to a large extent responsible for some real heartache" Unfortunately, by inference you have implicated me in this.

So, if the "huge" example you are referring to factually, six months ago, happens to be GTR, who denies it.
Where are your facts???

PUT UP OR SHUT UP


Posted by: I/O

Vic: You seem detirmined to develop some sort of flame out of this and really you're wasting good cyber ink. BTW, yes it is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel, kinda no brainer really.

You think my comments are a disgrace? To whom? Me? That's my problem. The day you see me make comments which may put the freshmen in a higher risk area than they already are is the day to return fire with the clue bat. In the interim best put the right gloves on to carry the clue bat, because it does require some skill to use correctly.

You are surprised that I would have told you to continue? You shouldn't be because I enjoy to see success and nothing is dead until it is dead. My gleaning of your situation (All be it if I don't know much about it) is that perhaps your lady was suffering the "Oh this is really going to happen" jitters and maybe, just maybe (Big clue here) you might have moved a tad fast in the whole process. Most women do get the jitters at some stage and there would have been NO DOWNSIDE in your taking another shot at it. You would have had nothing to lose but a few coins for a phone call. That is just plain simple good sense.

As for your Put Up or Shut Up comments. I make two FINAL comments as I see no point in flaming this out of perspective. 1) Grow up. 2) Go back and read GTR's entire thread from start to finish and if you can't see it all, then I suggest you do some very serious soul searching.

Relax and enjoy the rest of Easter, it is almost over.


Posted by: bingism

For crying out loud... will you two just shut up!! This is like reading "Woman's Weekly" after a night on the town... How long is this going to go on for??

I thoight that we (RMP members that is) prided ourselves on being a fairly tolerant, open and honest forum, unlike some of the others... yes, sometimes the blunt approach is best and sometimes not... I?O if you'd taken your approach when I started seeing red flags, I would've got indignant and told you where to shove it, but conversely, if I'd received your falvour of advice, Vic, I wouldn't have known what to do... The benefit of RMP had been, until more recently, that everyone offered their own take on things and thus the original poster had the benefit of many different views.

We are all allowed to post in our own manner and with the benefits of our own experiences... we should not be attacking each other... otherwise, we may as well go and debate the benefits of a prenup or brag about our conquests on one of the "others"!!! Any chance we could all shake hands and agree to disagree??


Posted by: bingism

PS. This type of public argument is one of the main reasons I stopped posting on the other sites a long time ago and I'm fairly sure I'm not the only one


Posted by: vic2012

I'm not looking to offend anyone. And I've always tried to make my posts measured and tollerant.

On reflection, perhaps I have got drawn in a bit.

I wont post on this thread again.
Victor


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by bingism
For crying out loud... will you two just shut up!!


Yep.


Posted by: Soulshine79

Okay people, I'm sorry I ever posted my question in the first place. My apologies, I could have figured this all out on my own anyways. I work in the prison system and I am encircled by scam artists. I simply saw a tool here and thought I'd get some practical advice. I/O I still think you are more than blunt! It was only when you made comments that I took as personal(hence the "reality check, self appraisal" comment) that I became offended. I feel my self awareness is quite adept. I work amongst rapist, murderers, thiefs etc. and you have to know alot about yourself or else they will be the ones to try and teach you. Needless to say if you learn it from them you end up with a literal knife in your back. I/O you can be blunt or anything else you want. My only problem was that you made comments, that in their context, I felt were belittling. Oh well, right!?!? I do hope this is the last post in this thread. No sense in arguing over this little episode between me and I/O. And I would also like to extend my apology for my broad based reply to I/O. I had no intention when first posting here to offend anyone. If my postings have been offensive then I'll be the first to say sorry. And also for creating a thread that would in turn cause the communtiy here at RMP this unsightly and lengthy argument. To all, thanks!!!!!!!

"rat in a drain ditch, caught on a limb you know better but I know him....."


Posted by: Turboguy

I want to go back and re-read this whole thread before I make any real comments and I will do that later today but I don't think anyone should have to apologize for asking a sincere question and wanting help.


Posted by: Cheburashka

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulshine79
I do hope this is the last post in this thread.


Your wish is our command! When the author of a thread wants it closed...done!


Russian America Top. Ðåéòèíã ðåñóðñîâ Ðóññêîé Àìåðèêè. Ðåéòèíã@Mail.ru Russian Network USA



Russian Meeting Place Copyright ©2000 - 2008, www.russianmeetingplace.com and Khahsyar and Lena.