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My experience (so far)in real time

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Posted by: salvatore

I have read quite a few personal stories here. These stories have been quite helpful to me.
I thought that since most of these stories seem to be after the fact I would write my own as it is happening and hope that it might help some other people just getting started in their search for a RW.
I would like to say this though...I notice that people like to say what everybody is doing or has done wrong in their search. I say there are no wrong answers. There are also no right answers. Every experience will be different and since people have different personalities they will see events much differently. So I ask that if you see something that you think I am doing or have done wrong, either keep it to yourself and see how it plays out or if you have some information i am not privy to then share it. If you do decide to share an opinion keep it civil. Please don't be insulting. I just don't like the black and white views I see here sometimes and would discourage people from assuming things about me or reading between the lines for things.
I also have a good eyes for scams ( I am Sicilian after all) and would never send any money even unsolicited unless I felt it was the right thing to do. Here is where if you think I am wrong about that to keep it to yourself and see how it plays out. Perfect example. I would never send any frivolous amounts of money. If I say I sent $30 or $40 for internet access or a calling card and I get scammed, well, I have wasted larger sums on stupider things. So telling me I am a fool for this will get you nowhere.
All that being said, I look forward to all your comments and critiques. I also to making some new friends here in cyberland or in real time possibly.
Ok next post begins the story. Enjoy!


Posted by: salvatore

I have always been interested in Russia. As a child they were the enemy but I never quite bought into that idea. I was curious what Russian boys and girls thought about us Americans and got sad thinking they might be taught the same things about us.
Flash forward a few decades and here I am in Boston at age 35. Over the years I have met many Russians. I lived in a neighborhood in Boston where there were many Russian Jews that fled Russia as soon as the USSR crumbled. So many that when I would be wating for the train I had people start speaking to me in Russian countless times. They just assumed everybody there was Russian.
I had some great Russian deli's and restaurants. The food was great and hearing the language seemed very exotic to me. My interest in russian culture was definitely piqued by this.
Not to mention that the Cold War representation of the typical Russian being a big hairy weightlifting she-male could not have been further from the truth I came to realize. These women were beautiful!
I eneded up with a few Russian friends. They were men and a couple of them were the stereotype that we often read about here. Heavy drinking and mysoginistic. A couple were decent and hard working guys. I am still friends with 2 of them.
I also met a RW living here on a tourist visa. She taught me alot of things about Russian Culture. Her perspective was one from a small village from the south of Moscow. Very beautiful and full of fire. I thought Italian women were ornery! Wow she could kill you with a sideways look. Of course I was smitten! She had a boyfriend from Belarus, however. Yet again the stereotypical RM. I did not like the guy at all. I also had a girlfriend at the time though so nothing was going to happen with this girl but I enjoyed her company.
At this point I still had no intention of looking abroad for a girlfriend or wife.
End part 1


Posted by: salvatore

So now this past Xmas I was in the middle of a break-up. My girlfriend and I were living together and I thought she was the girl I would marry.
It wasn't a terrible break-up. We were both very civil. It wasn't working out. We both loved each other and respected each other but it became obvious we weren't going to be together forever so it was best to part ways before we began to resent each other.
I was still devestated. I was depressed. The holidays are hard enough since I lost my father a few years ago. Now I would have to endure all the questions about what happened since my family loved this girl.
Being close to New Years Eve and having to make new plans last minute sort of I was even more depressed because I didn't have anywhere to go. My Russian friend called me one day to invite me to his place for the New Year. Usually he has a party(with lots of model quality RW's) but this year he was going to keep it chill with some wine and just a few Russian friends. Of course I jumped at the chance.
It turned out to only be 3 of us. My friends wanted to watch a Russian film called "The Irony of Fate". Its a traditional movie to watch on New YEars Eve since it takes place on the holiday.
The only problem with this was that it was entirely in Russian with no subtitles. So my friend translated it word for word as it happened. Doing different voices and everything. It was unbelievable. After a while I even forgot it was him talking. I was totally absorbed. A totally unique experience I will have forever.
Since I was single and lonley now and the Holidays were killing me I decided to sign up for Match.com. I was only half hearted about it though and didn't get many responses.
One e-mail, however, was different from the rest. It was from a lonely Russian girl and even though she was far away she was dreaming of me and would I take a chance and e-mail her back? Of course it was a scam but being as bored as I was I decided to play along. It took a few weeks and finally the request for money for her visa so she could join me here and spend our lives together. Only $1300. She said it was a small price to pay for us to be together.
Coincidentally, around the time I was dealing with the scammer I watched a documentary on the Discovery Channel about the Russian Bride business. It was shocking. Such lonely men going on these tours to Russia. The desparate girls trying so hard and willing to do anything to get out of Russia. The squirrely American owner of one of these dating agencies. Wow. It was hard to watch.
Now these 2 events would tell anybody to stear way clear of going to Russia to find a woman. But one time I watched a documentary about heroin addiction and how it ruins people. I never wanted to try heroine like I did after that show*. So that tells you my character and what I decided to do with my new found single life.
I needed to find out how to go about finding an RW. So here I am.
I am off to bed so part 3 tomorrow sometime.

*Don't worry I resisted the urge to do heroin.


Posted by: salvatore

So I googled Russian brides and Elenasmodels topped the list. A few links down was RMP.
I clicked on RMP and read the first page. I decided this was just what I was looking for. I signed up and didn't come up for air for about 6 straight hours. No exageration. It has been a great resource.
I checked out some reviews of elenasmodels and decided that would be my best bet.
I signed up and made a profile and thought I would read a ton of profiles and see what it was about before I made any financial decision. Besides money has been tight so I didn't want to spend too much right away.
Everything looked pretty good so after about a week I got 20 expression of interests free and sent them to all of the girls I had saved on my favorites.
By the way, I am 35 and decided to look for 22-29 yo girls. Don't worry about the age difference I am pretty immature so it balances out.
Of the 20 eoi's I sent I got 10 that said they were interested. I bought $50 worth of e-mails which got me 10 girls I could e-mail. So I sent all 10 an e-mail.
3 responded. Since I am new at the online thing I figured my initial e-mail didn't stand out much. That was after reading on here about how to write an initial e-mail.
As of right now I am still talking to one of them. She was great at first. Her English is really good. She is cute in a plain way which I like. Very playful and has such a sarcastic sense of humor. Being from Boston that was right up my alley. We can be sarcastic with the best of them.
For some reason though these last 2 weeks I have been losing interest. It seems we don't have much in common and I suspect that she doesn't have much passion in her life. We still havent been able to connect by phone so I will wait to make any determination about whether we will work or not until after we have spoken on the phone.
I am thinking I will sign up for the gold membership or the catalog membership in the next few weeks. I am in school during the day so I can't work as much as I need to for any extra spending money so it isn't a good idea to splurge on that until I finish school. Which is in a few weeks. Then the money i am making will double.
I know it will costs thousands to go ahead with this plan. I will have plenty of money to get over there in the next few months. I figure a trip around Sept will be perfect.
In the meantime I also signed up for freepersonals.ru. I figured it would probably mostly scammers but since it was free it was worth the risk.
I got tons of e-mails within the first few days I signed up. Most were obvious scammers. But I have whittled it down to 3 girls I am talking to now.
2 seem ok but their english is not too good. One is absolutely perfect. She is incredably beautiful. Her English is perfect. She is smart and her e-mails are like poetry. We have alot in common as far as our view of the world.
The problem with her is that she is too perfect. If it is too good to be true it usually is. But I am playing it cool so if it does work out I will be the luckiest guy in the world. She is from Ukraine so I am planning on focusing my attention on that area of the FSU.
That way if it doesn't work out with her I have plans b, c, d etc. I only plan to meet one girl when I get to Ukraine though. I don't want to jump around from girl to girl. If I get there and this girl doesn't work out I will try to meet others while I am there. I just cant see writing to 4 or 5 girls for months and then trying to juggle them all when i get there to see which one pans out. I would be sure to screw it up with all of them and ruin a potentially good relationship if I played it that way.
Anyway I have tried talking on the phone with the Ukrainian but it never quite works. I am sure it is her cell phone. I think the next few weeks will determine if she is for real or not.
In the meantime I am taking Russian lessons. It is not as hard a language as I thought it would be. Of course I have only just dipped my toes in that pool. I am sure the grammatical rules will throw me for a loop but I think I will do alright with it.
I already speak Italian, Spanish and Romanian. All latin languages so they were easy for me to learn. Russian will be more of a challenge but when you already speak one other language it makes it easier to learn a third.
So that is where things stand now. I will post more as things happen but at this stage of the game there isn't much happening.
My id at elenasmodels is 6062558, so if anybody wants to check it out and critique it for me I would love that. And please be honest. I am a big boy and can handle constructive criticism.
Also on that note. I think my first post on this thread might have come across as not so tactful. I am very open to anything anybody has to say so don't be afraid to comment on this thread.


Posted by: ira156

Hey Sal A very common way to head down this road. Its Funny i grew up with a lot of Italian friends and i found Russians very similar to Italians in many ways. The family, the love of food, Art , music ect ect. I even think the way they talk is similar. Like Italians if you dont understand the language ....when you first see them talking you would think they are having a heated argument...just the passionate side i think. Im interested to see how your story pans out....and im sure you wont get ripped off....some of my italian mates could syteal your socks of your feet without taking your shoes off. Cheers Mate


Posted by: Raspberry

Salvatore, really enjoyed your story and could definitely relate to it, in a number of ways. Was really curious about Russia, but never really got into it until I was crazy over this girl(born here) who was Italian(mom's side) and the dad's side were Jews from Belarus. We got along, but since she really was a knockout, it would be longshot for some poor average Joe get her even interested.

Crazy as it was, I started up studying things---language, geography, etc. Of course the girl was so far removed from her culture. But she was impressed on how I came along on this---in fact, had no clue Belarus was the place her family was from. But, as time went on, it was obvious that I did not have a prayer against more handsome men or those with higher incomes. But it took a life on its own and this "Russian" thing stuck with me.

There was a period of a couple of years where I didn't really work on anything Russia-related. I did go the opposite direction, feel relegated to "settle" for someone a little below what I "deserved"......but it turned out to be a disaster. Ironically, when that was over with, I started to get into the Russian thing, and it has kept me on a positive note ever since.

But I know what you mean about Italian women. Some of my own kind(Greek) are not all that, uh, tactful in communicating, shall we say. Then again, not much differences in the neighboring countries. The thought did cross my mind to meet girls in Italy, but there's way too much competition---local AND foreign. Malta, though, I may visit at some point.

I really like the FSU. It's been a more productive thing communicating and visiting, than anything I could do here. Met some really nice ladies.....I would not have a realistic chance with any woman of this caliber here in the states.

So, good that you are on the right track...


Posted by: salvatore

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
Like Italians if you dont understand the language ....when you first see them talking you would think they are having a heated argument...just the passionate side i think. : Mate

Its Funny Ira, My ex came to visit one time and afterwards asked me why they were so mad at each other. I said that they weren't mad. And she asked why they were yelling at each other. It was pretty funny.
And as far as getting scammed, I don't even mind if I do get scammed. To me it is worth it if in the end you end up with the girl you are meant to be with.
Also when I say scammed I dont even mean just financially. It could be a scam like Going to Russia experienced where his wife wasn't looking for money she was looking to see who would be the guy that was best suited for her but went about it in a junior high school way.
Scammers aren't always looking for money.


Posted by: salvatore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspberry


But I know what you mean about Italian women. Some of my own kind(Greek) are not all that, uh, tactful in communicating, shall we say. Then again, not much differences in the neighboring countries. The thought did cross my mind to meet girls in Italy, but there's way too much competition---local AND foreign. Malta, though, I may visit at some point.

..

Forget about Italian women. It isn't even just that there is too much competition its that the game you have to play is so complicated that if yuo didn't grow up there you won't know how to play it. It's like baseball. I only like it because I grew up with it. Foreigners will never like it or understand the rules.
There are so many rules to the dating game that it will make your head spin. Especially since the rules are not written anywhere.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Good start Salvatore. I have a few comments, nothing bad.

I too was fascinated with Russia from a very young age. My interest was with the Orthodox churches. I wondered why would they build these structures and what are they used for? I didn't find out until last year when I visited one. Not what I expected when I walked inside.

I see you read my story. I hope it helped and that you learned a few things. You are right, scammers have more then 1 reason for contacting men. I think my RW has a "self validation" problem and therefore collects men. She must get approval from men so she fills some sort of need or desire.

We have a lot in common. My Grand Mother lived in Russia as a small girl for a few years so I had some Russian influence and background. My wife ended our marriage Christmas day and it wasn't a Happy New Year. I also used Elena's Models. I also believe in talking to many women and whittle it down to 1. You can always visit an agency or go on line and look for a RW in the city you located if things don't work out.

I too always thought Russian people were arguing when they spoke Russian until I heard them laugh during the conversation. To me, Russian is a very rough language.

You've done well "young Jedi" by visiting this board. I don't think there is better information anywhere. I know it has helped me, not only with information but with friendship and support. You can PM me anytime if you have a question about my story, some of the cities I visited, or any general question you might have.

Good luck and happy landings to you!


Posted by: Chrismc

Interesting posts Salvatore you seem to have your head screwed on right and should do OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salvatore
The problem with her is that she is too perfect. If it is too good to be true it usually is. But I am playing it cool so if it does work out I will be the luckiest guy in the world. She is from Ukraine so I am planning on focusing my attention on that area of the FSU.

Yes I agree if things are seem too good to be true they often are!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salvatore
That way if it doesn't work out with her I have plans b, c, d etc. I only plan to meet one girl when I get to Ukraine though. I don't want to jump around from girl to girl. If I get there and this girl doesn't work out I will try to meet others while I am there. I just cant see writing to 4 or 5 girls for months and then trying to juggle them all when i get there to see which one pans out. I would be sure to screw it up with all of them and ruin a potentially good relationship if I played it that way.

Always the best way in my view, visit one you get on well with and if things don't work out, make sure you have a Plan B. I have seen many go over to FSU and treat it all like some sort of mass interviewing process, how they ever get to know the women well enough to take things further I don't know.

Goodluck
Chris


Posted by: salvatore

So last I posted, I had narrowed down to a few girls. I am now officially down to one and possibly not even her.
The too good to be true girl turned out to be just that.
Background on her...
I was writing her via freepersonals.ru. She is from Ukraine and is 22. She seemed very smart and her English was great and very expressive. Almost poetic. We had been writing for quite a while and lately I had been trying to call. I could never get through even when we had a time set for me to call. The first time I called she answered but couldn't hear me. That was the only time I was able to actually get through. Every time I called after that it rang with no answer.
She then started dropping some troubling hints in her e-mails. Her life was stressful because the water and electricity is always getting shut off. Then she couldn't write as much as she wanted because it was more expensive to use the internet cafe. I offered to send some money so we could talk more online. She accepted reluctantly. I told her I didn't know how to send money so she would need to guide me through it. She never told me how so I had never sent the money. Eventually she sent her address. I waited a bit to see what would happen if I didn't send any money.
About a week after that she sent another e-mail this time saying she was getting kicked out of her apartment for non-payment of rent and asked if I could help out. Her birthday was coming up and she said it would be a nice present from me if I sent some money. She didn't say how much but I figured if I asked she would tell me in the next e-mail.
So the scam was on. I don't have the energy to watch it play out and play along so I never responded to the e-mail. She hasn't written back. That was about 10 days ago.
So during this time there was another girl that looked promising. She is from Minsk. Her English is not that good but since I am taking Russian lessons I figured that if I were to visit then eventually we would be able to communicate. Well, I didn't see any signs of a scam from her but then I got this e-mail a couple of days ago.

"Hi mine Salvatore. I really said lies to you. My name is Veronica, instead of
Anna!!! To me of 26 years, instead of 24. Forgive that long did not write … did
not write to really dear person. To you …
Simply so there were circumstances … I I cannot say lies more … cannot remain
more in my country.. I cannot tell the true reason of my act..
I one thousand times apologize before you.. I wish to apologize one million
times.. It not mere words
I shall beg the God, fur-trees you will call me to yourself … to me there is
nothing to lose more …

I do not play game.. I true … but you to me never any more will not believe!!!
So also it is necessary to me..
I shall suffer without you …"

So at least she admitted she was about to scam me but couldn't go through with it. She is still updating her id on freepersonals.ru though. Guys her id is 243353 so stay away from her completely.

That leaves 2 girls. One from St Pete is too boring for me. We talk almost everyday on yahoo messenger in real time. She has it at work. I get up at 630 everyday and chat with her for about 45 minutes then leave for work. I just feel like we have talked about everything we have to talk about. Monday I plan to tell her that I am going to move on.

So 1 girl left. She seems legit and is really sweet but her e-mails are short and she writes very infrequently. So I am going to let that one peter out too.

So down to zero. I have decided to take a break. My finances are not that great right now and won't be for a couple months. I wouldn't be able to travel to meet anybody until October so it might not be worth it to start talking to other girls until I am closer to when I would be able to visit.

I will still lurk here and post occasionally but for now thats all I will be doing. I won't be hitting the dating sites for some time.

Does anybody know what she meant by the bit about the fur trees?


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by salvatore
Does anybody know what she meant by the bit about the fur trees?


It's a typical naunce of using E-translators and it could mean a number of things, but in the context it is written and with my rough understanding, I would suggest it is safe to say she is referring to you as "One of shelter" or "Place of shelter", or words to that effect.

There is a common understanding in many countries, that if you stand under a "Fur Tree" (Pine Tree/Conifur) whilst it is raining, you will never get wet. In fact it is largely true. I would suggest this was her point, if indeed it is a "She".


Posted by: LilyNewbie

Quote:
Originally Posted by salvatore
My id at elenasmodels is 6062558, so if anybody wants to check it out and critique it for me I would love that. And please be honest. I am a big boy and can handle constructive criticism.


Salvatore, Elenasmodels does not allow non-members to search by IDs, so I could not locate your profile. However freepersonals allows this. Could you pls post your ID there? Thank you.


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyNewbie
Salvatore, Elenasmodels does not allow non-members to search by IDs, so I could not locate your profile. However freepersonals allows this. Could you pls post your ID there? Thank you.


Lily....you can search if you are a non member, I have just tried and it worked OK. Try again, it seems to work fine for me.

Chris


Posted by: LilyNewbie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismc
Lily....you can search if you are a non member, I have just tried and it worked OK. Try again, it seems to work fine for me.

Chris


Chris, may be you could give a link with a Search by member ID option? I can not find it...


Posted by: deccie

Not quite true. If you open up any persons profile in your browser and then change the number to the number you want you can get the other person's information.


Posted by: LilyNewbie

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
Not quite true. If you open up any persons profile in your browser and then change the number to the number you want you can get the other person's information.


I tried to do as you tell. Opened one profile, selected his ID but this field does not allow typing in the other number...


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyNewbie
Chris, may be you could give a link with a Search by member ID option? I can not find it...


Here you go Lily, just enter the ID where it says Search by ID that works OK

Chris


Posted by: LilyNewbie

Thanks Chris! now I find it.

Salvatore,

Your primary photo probably does not do you justice.

It looks like you tried to shoot by yourself from your arm's lenght. That would make the middle part of your face look disproportionally large. May be you chould consider a camera with a remote control option?

Also I would consider a 3/4 angle face picture with a somewhat larger smile. The lighter background (e g near the white door) would do better.

Also you probably could consider showing your head and a little of your chest for a primary photo.

Does the light come from a side? if yes, it's a clever choice.

That was about the photo.


Posted by: LilyNewbie

Now on the text.

what I notice immediately is that you always use "I...I...I..". It;s clear that you talk about yourself, and it makes your sentences very simple, but some linguistic diversity would be desired.

On your profession. So you are a barber.Women usually fall into this kind of profession....may be you could consider to introduce your job in more colorful ways? for instance, how about a Hairstylist, or even a Beauty Worker ?

On a general note, I'd say your narrative part could be outlined more attractively.

Good luck!


Posted by: salvatore

I appreciate the input. That kind of honesty is what I am looking for. I will take your advice except for one thing.
The point about the barber. Usually women do the other jobs you described. Barbers are generally men and work solely on men. Women generally call themselves stylists and such. It is a point of pride to me that I am not a stylist and I am a simple barber.
But as far as everything else, I think you are right. Coming from a woman's perspective makes it even more legit I think


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyNewbie
I tried to do as you tell. Opened one profile, selected his ID but this field does not allow typing in the other number...


I didn't explain it very well did I.

What I meant was that when you click on someone's profile, a link appears
in the title bar of your browser..

http://www.elenasmodels.com/index.php?ap=4812

Notice the ap= and a number, in this case 4812.
That 4812 is the profile number and by changing it you can get to another persons profile.

In this case I changed it to 4814 and got another person's profile.
http://www.elenasmodels.com/index.php?ap=4814

I really liked the woman in 4812. She would have been the next person I was going to start writing to.


Posted by: LilyNewbie

Oh yes, now I got what you mean deccie. Thanks!


Posted by: salvatore

So it has been quite a few months since I last posted here. I had temporarily retired from the site and just checked in once in a while to read through the posts.
I decided the time just wasn't right for me to be looking overseas for a girlfriend. I had too many things on my plate here.
But around the middle of August I decided to get back in the game. I went back to elenasmodels and changed my profile according to Lillynewbie's advice.
The results this time were dramatic. I was actually getting unsolicited e-mails this time. I sent many EOI's and got some good responses.
I started talking to one great girl from Kiev that stood out from the others. We exchanged e-mails almost daily. We discovered that we have a remarkably similar outlook on the world and how life should be lived. We stared talking on the phone and now I am talking to just her. We talk on the phone 2-3 times a week. She is incredible. She is 25, beautiful(obviously, she is Ukrainian after all) smart and very independent. She is not looking for a ticket out of Ukraine. She has a great job, her own apartment and is doing very well for herself. She has her own money and lives very well. In fact she asked me if I would be willing to live in Kiev. She is just looking for the right match for her.
So I booked a ticket to Kiev last week and leave the first week of November. Unfortunately, though, I only have a few days to be there. I get there Sunday morning and leave Thursday morning. Not enough time to decide if we are right for each other but enough time to know if we aren't
If things work out I will go there for a few days every few months until next September when I will go there for a few months and see how I like the city and living with her.
Even though we get along great on the phone, I am going with no preconceived notions. I hope we fall madly in love and she is the one for me but until you see somebody face to face you just never know. Right now we are showing each other our best face.
So needless to say, I am pretty excited. If nothing else, it will be a great adventure. Worst case scenario is I have an interesting trip to a foreign country. Best case is I am meeting my future wife.
Well, actually worst case scenario could play out much worse than I described LOL!
So wish me luck!


Posted by: rk288

Salvatore,

Did you read "Very Intense Now" in "Stage 3 Relationships"?

RK


Posted by: EasyTarget

Salvatore:
Good Luck I am sure you don't need it. Your right 3 or 4 days is a limited time, but it is only a first meeting and if things go well, you will just have to go back!

If you have questions about visiting Kiev, so many people have been there that I am sure someone can help you out.
:-)


Posted by: sidney

We wish you luck. You seem to be going with a good attitude which can make all the difference.
Sid


Posted by: bingism

Hi Salvatore,
It sounds like you're going about this all the right way.... keeping "yourself" in control of "yourself".... just try not to let the "other", somewhat smaller, yourself get a hold once you get there Have fun....


Posted by: GoingToRussia

You remind me of myself when I met my second FSU woman. I went with the idea of meeting her, having a good vacation, and not expecting much more. By the end of the first week together, I decided to stop looking for other women and concentrate on her. The chemistry was there and still is.

Good luck Salvatore and I hope your willpower is better then mine! FSU women know how to "bait a hook" if they are interested in you!!!


Posted by: salvatore

Thanks for the encouragement!
I have learned from experience that I can be my own worst enemy sometimes. I used to think that things would happen the way I wanted them to just from the mere wanting of it to be so. Well, did I learn the hard way!
So now I go into things with a much more reasoned outlook.
RK288, I have not read it yet but I will now that you mention it. I am sure I will read some very sage advice there as I have in many of the threads on this site.
GTR, if everything I read is to be believed about the FSU women, then I will offer myself to the hook and cast away!
EDIT:Rk288 I just started reading the post you mentioned. I had actually read it already but had forgotten. Thanks for keeping me in check. You remind me a little of how in ancient Rome when a general or Emperor would ride the chariot during a victory celebration there was always a slave behind him whispering in his ear, "Sic transit gloria" or "Glory is fleeting".


Posted by: AkMike

It sounds as if you're on the right track! Take it slow and be sure!


Posted by: salvatore

I may be a hopeless romantic but I will always be a bit cautious too. In many things in life not just this trip. I do have my pragmatic side too.
I don't have any allusions regarding this trip. I do think it is incredibly romantic to meet a woman in this fashion though. I mean, think of the story if things work out the way I hope they will. That is not to say that I am blinded by the romance of it. I am glad that there are people who are complete strangers to me that are looking out for me and are showing genuine concern for me.
It is truly heartening. I hope that by posting my experiences that somebody is able to learn from me like I have learned from others on here.


Posted by: salvatore

Hello all
Sorry for the delay in getting some updates on the forum. I have been very busy lately and with so much to tell, the thought of posting had gotten a bit daunting. I will do my best today and tomorrow to get everything on here.
I got back from Kiev 2 weeks ago but my first update will go back to about a month ago.
The last update I posted was about how I was just starting to plan my trip.

I had a good feeling about the girl I was talking to. I will call her R. I decided to stop corresponding to the other girls on Elenasmodels and just focus on her. We were talking on the phone probably twice a week and e-mail a few times a week as well. When we talked on the phone it would be for a few hours at a time. I felt pretty good and thought it would be too much trouble to keep talking to other girls just in case things didn't work out with R.

I would only have a few days to spend in Kiev and R was a bit disappointed since she would be working while I was there, but we agreed it would be better than waiting until next summer to meet for the first time. At least we would know if there was no chemistry.

I bought my ticket and then set about looking for an apartment. Actually first I was looking for a hotel but all the hotels that were centrally located were too expensive and R wanted me to be able to cook her a meal (I bragged about being a good cook so now it was time to put up or shut up!) so I decided to get an apartment instead. It would turn out to be cheaper and would have a kitchen and even a jaccuzzi. So I found a place right in downtown by the Tara Shevchenko park for about $69 a night for 4 nights. Plus they would pick me up at the airport and drop me off when I left. They also had a tour guide to take me around during the day while R worked and I could rent a cellphone from them too. My cell phone here works in Europe but it costs about $3 a minute so I thought it best to rent one from them. Seemed top be a pretty good deal.

As the weeks led up to my departure date R and I were talking less and less. Her job is very demanding and she works quite a bit. She works in a bank and was changing departments and needed to train the girl taking her place so she worked almost 12 hours a day. So I understood that we would not be communicating as much and even though it was disappointing I understood.

But we went from sporadic moments to not at all for almost 2 weeks. That was not cool in my mind. I work alot too and find the time to write a text message and e-mails and for 2 weeks was not hearing back from her. Finally I get an e-mail saying she went to Odessa to see her friends and relax a bit and left her phone there. I was not buying it however and called her on it later in the week. She admitted she was lying and told me that when she gets stressed she needs to be alone. I am the same way so I understood, but I could have lived with her telling me before she disappeared that she didn't feel like talking. At least i would know and would not worry.

She was having trouble realizing that with thousands of miles between us, communication and honesty about our feelings are vital. I am not needy and crave attention, in fact I like having my alone time too, but it isn't as if we see each other everyday and were feeling ourselves getting lost. I was a bit worried about my decision to go there now but talking it out with her made me feel better.

After we finally worked things out, or so I thought, it happened again. I was not getting any of my e-mails responded to and my texts and phone calls went unanswered for about 8 or 9 days. And this was only a week before I was to leave. I sent her an e-mail asking her bluntly if she was for real and was actually planning on meeting me or if she was losing interest and didn't have the courage to tell me. She finally responded saying she was sorry. She was getting nervous about meeting because now it was getting real. The fantasy aspect of the online dating was about to become a reality and she was afraid.

I knew exactly how she was feeling because I was feeling the same way. But it was too late to turn back now. I told her if she was changing her mind she needed to tell me before I got on that plane. I did not want to land in a foreign country with the expectation to meet and find myself looking like a fool when she wasn't there. But she assured me it was just the jitters and she would be fine when I got there.

So, now I was wondering if I should set up some meetings with other girls. I was against doing that before because I felt it would take up too much energy. And with only 5 days it was not practical in my mind. Not only that, but I figured once R and I met, things would be better. Once we were able to see that we were real and revisit the conversations we had had, then we would know if it was right or not. But with everything that had been going on I decided to hedge my bets.

I sent some e-mails to some of the girls I had been talking to before asking if they wanted to meet up, and not a single one responded. I think that they must have felt rejected even though I had been respectful and honest with them. I e-mailed a few more girls in Kiev that I had not talked to before and again none had responded. There was no turning back and I figured I would let it ride with R.

The night before I was to leave R and I talked on the phone for hours. It felt like it had weeks earlier. We told each other about our fears and hopes and I really felt we were back on the same page. I had to work the day I left so we got off the phone and I told her we would talk before I left for the airport.

My flight was at 8pm and I got out of work around 4:30. I got home at 5 and got my stuff ready. I called R and we talked and laughed for more than an hour when I said I needed to get going. I wanted to be at the airport by 630 so I need to leave at 615. I can walk to the airport from where I live. I got to the airport feeling pretty good.

My next post will begin the trip report


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Interesting start to your adventure Salvatore!

MORE MORE MORE!!!


Posted by: salvatore

I left without any problems on Saturday night. The flight went well and was actually pretty quick since there was a hurricane in New England when I left so it pushed the plane from behind. I got to Amsterdam an hour early. I landed in Kiev a few hours later.

As soon as I got off the plane I felt the excitement. To be honest, when I was on the first leg of the journey I was wondering if this was a good idea. When I got off the plane in Kiev I knew I had made the right decision.

Seeing the signs written in the Cyrillic was so foreign. I loved it. I got in line at customs and was then yelled at by a beautiful customs agent because I didnt fill out the form that nobody told me I was supposed to fill out. She yelled "Go to table go to table!" and I saw the form and filled out half of it because the other half said departure. I wasn't departing so I didn't think I was supposed to fill it out. I got yelled at again by the same woman and finally got it right. My friend Chuck would fall in love with this girl because he loves hot *****y women!

I, however, don't and so getting yelled at was such a distraction that I left the flowers and waffles I bought in Amsterdam for R on the table. I didn't even realize that I didn't have them in my hands.

I left customs and saw the man with my name on a card. He spoke no English and my Russian was limited to a few phrases that I had learned over the last 2 weeks. I got some gryvna from the ATM to get me started and I told him I needed to use a telephone before we left. I wanted to call R so she knew I was in and would be ready. I thought he understood me and I thought he was telling me I could use his phone when we were on the way. We were both wrong. He wouldn't let me use his phone. So I had to wait until I got into the apartment.

I felt like a kid seeing all the signs in Russian and decoding the letters. It was like when I was 5 and so proud of myself that I could read the signs and billboards! I knew this would be an adventure and such a challenge. I really needed it to be because I hadn't had a vacation or even more than 3 days off in a row for over 2 years. This trip would recharge the batteries for sure.

About 30 minutes later we were coming into Kiev. I was very impressed with my first look from the taxi. Lots of lights and the architecture was really pretty. It didn't have that old Soviet drab look that Bucharest has, so that was a relief. We picked up the apartment manager and then arrived shortly after at my place. It was right across the street from the Premier Palace so the location was perfect.

The place was clean and furnished decently. It wasn't the Ritz but it was not a dump. it would do for what I needed which was really just a place to hang my hat for a few days. The first thing I tried to do was call R but the manager said that the phone doesn't call cell phones so she offered me her phone. I called and R said she would give me some time to get cleaned up and would meet me in front in 45 minutes. I started getting very excited now.

I told the manager I would like to set up a tour guide so she called one for me. I talked to the girl but she said she was not available until after 5 during the week and it would be dark and not a very good tour. I said 5 would be alright since I wouldn't be meeting R until around 7 each night anyway. Then she said she was not feeling well and didn't want to give me a tour. When I asked the manager for another number for a guide she said she didn't have any others. Disappointing, but I could find one myself I decided. Ok, I needed a cell phone. She didn't have one with her even though I told her in my e-mails that I needed one. She would try to get one for me tomorrow. I was not crazy about this girl since she didn't seem very professional and didn't really seem to care that she wasn't providing the services she had agreed to in our e-mails.

But, I was excited to be there so I didn't let it get to me. I would figure things out on my own if I needed to.

45 minutes later I was outside the apartment and there was R. She looked beautiful. Exactly how she looked in her pictures. She was dressed great and her hair looked great. We kissed hello and embraced each other. I gave her some chocolate I brought from the States. I am glad I was not empty handed after leaving the flowers and waffles(she had asked me to get her those waffles since she had some when she went to Amsterdam once and loved them). It was as if we had already met before. It was very comfortable. We decided to go get something to eat at a Ukranian restaurant in the Tara Shevchenko park. I forget the name of it right now, but it is a traditional restaurant and the staff dress in traditional clothes. Normally I would think this was a tourist trap but it was full of Ukranians. Not an American to be seen. Perfect!

We ordered some food and some wine and talked for a while. She showed me some pictures and we had a great time. The food was great. The wine was from Crimea and a little sweet for me but she liked it. The bill came to about 350 gr ($65) in case anybody is wondering about prices. I did not want to pinch pennies so I didn't concern myself too much with prices. I paid the bill and we decided to go for a walk. She wanted to show me her favorite places. She did not thank me for paying for dinner. Not a good sign.

We walked around the park and watched people playing chess under the trees. It was getting dark now and a little cold but they didn't seem to mind. I held her hand and she told me about the places she likes to go. I took lots of pictures but she wouldnt let me take any of her.

We stopped after a while of seeing the sights to have some coffee and cake. I complimented her a few times and felt like things were going well. the conversation came easy and there were no awkward silences.

She lives outside of the city center and was staying with her parents while I was there since they were close by my apartment so I walked her there and we said goodnight. She offered her cheek and I gave her a kiss. We planned on talking the next day while she was at work when I got the cellphone and planned on dinner when she got out of work which would be around 7.


I slept a little late the next morning until around 10 or so and figured I would call the manager, get some breakfast and then just walk around and get myself oriented. I picked up the phone and there was no signal. The phone was not working. How was I supposed to get my cellphone now? I actually brought my cellphone from America with me in case of just such an emergency. I waited for it to find a signal...and waited...and waited...and waited. It was not going to work. Even though I paid extra for international service and it worked in Amsterdam.

Ok no big deal. I will find an internet cafe somewhere and e-mail the manager and she can tell me what to do. So got cleaned up and went out for breakfast.

I went to a cafe nearby and ordered a cappuccino and a croissant and some water. My waitress spoke no English but was absolutely stunning. We communicated somehow with my dictionary and a few words she spoke in English. I wanted to ask her for some help getting around but I knew that would be futile. I paid around $10 which I thought was expensive for what I got considering I was in Kiev. Again, not pinching pennies so it didn't bother me, but I was a little surprised.

I left there and the Bessarabskiy market was right across the street so I decided to go there first and check out the food. It is impossible to cross the streets there so there are underground passages. I had seen these in italy but was not prepared for what was underneath. When I had seen them before they were simple passages to cross the street. Here I was confronted with an underground city almost. There were stores and restaurants and tons of people. And an internet cafe. So I went there first.

Luckily the kid at the desk spoke fluent English and got me set up. It would cost 8 gr an hour or about $1.35. I sent an e-mail to R explaining it would probably be a while before I would be able to call. I sent an e-mail to the manager asking about the phone. I figured by the end of the hour I would hear back from her. So I surfed around and got some ideas of where to go and what to do. I looked for some tour guides I could hire and got some addresses of some banyas that I wanted to go to while I was there. Then of course I had to check my fantasy football scores and see how the Patriots did against Indy. They won but I lost that week. By the end of the hour I still had not heard back from the manager.

I went back up into the daylight. The weather was not bad. Sunny and around 45 fahrenheit. I went to the bank and changed some money. I brought dollar bills since I didn't want to chance having to run around from bank to bank to change travellers check which happened to me in Romania.

Then I went to the market. It was awesome. Flower stalls with all types of flowers. Butchers with all their meats out and calling out to customers. They even had brains there, which I woudl never eat but found beautiful to see since we don't see meat sold like that. It was refreshing to see whole pieces of meat and not divided into little plastic covered boxes.

I saw a table with many different jams and was trying to figure out what they all were when the old lady that made them started talking to me. She let me try some of them and they were all delicious and home made. I bought one to take home with me. I checked out the fish market and all the exotic fish I had never seen before. There was a stall that sold only honey. I bought a few jars since I collect honey from all over the world. I thought about some caviar but figured I would wait until I was leaving to buy some. That passed about an hour and I decided to go back to the internet cafe and see if I had an e-mail.

I didn't. So my next plan was to buy a phone card and try a pay phone. I was intimidated since I knew that it would be hard to communicate but I found a kiosk with some pictures of them. I pointed to what I wanted and got the card. Now how do I use the phone? I couldnt read the phone card, but I realized after a few minutes I needed a different card. The card I had was to add minutes to a cell phone. I went back to the kiosk and pointed to the pay phone and said 'phone card' In Russian and got a card that you insert into the phone. I was able to make the call only to be told that they didn't have a cell phone for me after all. Aggravated, I called R and told her I would call her at 7 and we would come up with a plan.

I walked around for a while revisiting the sites I had seen the evening before and was quite proud of myself that I was able to retrace my steps and find my way around. I stopped for lunch and had a great meal on Kreshatik street. It was cafeteria style almost like a buffet but the food was delicious. The chicken Kiev was amazing. Though of course just as the Chinese don't call their food Chinese food they just call it food, they don't call it chicken Kiev there. They call it a cutlet.

Jump to 7 oclock. I talk to R and we decide on sushi. She works in the Podil section on the lower side of Kiev so I took the funicular down there and met her at work and we went to a sushi restaurant nearby. She looked awesome yet again. We had great conversation for a while and enjoyed our meal. Towards the end of the meal she got quiet and I figured she was tired from work. So we left and walked around again. It was a little silent but I didn't feel it was awkward. I paid and yet again she did not thank me for paying.

We hadn't talked much about us yet. I didn't want to really. I wanted to wait until the last night I was there. I had a dinner planned and thought it would be nice to end on a romantic note and we would have a better idea of how we felt at that point.

I walked her home and left with a nice kiss on the lips.

Day 3 to come tomorrow


Posted by: Pin Boy

glad you're telling your story sal. may i ask, what was the name of the agency you used for apartment, cell phone, and tour guide? look forward to more!

pin boy


Posted by: AkMike

It sounds like a good begining to the story! Keep going.


Posted by: salvatore

I decided to go to the Pecherska Lavra monastery so during breakfast I put a plan together. My guidebook did not mention how to actually get to the place but had a map at the back of the book with the subway lines on it also.

There is a Pecherska stop so I figured that was where I needed to go.
Now finding the subway was like being a mouse in a maze. I got pretty lost underground. When I came up to the street to get my bearing I realized that I needed some help. I tried asking around for the nearest metro but nobody spoke English and when I showed them on the map where I wanted to go, they still couldn't help me because they couldn't read the map since it wasn't written in Cyrillic.

I stopped a young girl to ask (only because I figured she spoke English not because she was hot...though she was really hot!). She did speak English and tried to help but it was getting complicated so she decided to just bring me there. I could not believe her kindness. That would never happen in Boston. It took about 10 minutes and there was no way I could have found it on my own.

I got down in the subway which only cost a dime. It was very crowded and confusing. It took me a few minutes but I soon realized that this line would not get me to the stop I needed. So I tried asking which stop would bring me to the connection to the line I needed. Nobody spoke English.

I needed a new plan and thought about just taking a taxi. But I really didn't want to do that. I needed to get there on my own. So Looking at the map I tried to figure out how long it would take to walk. I figured it would take an hour so I set off on foot.

I was making my way around alright. I had the map mastered and was on the right street. After more than 30 minutes of walking though I realized that I was too far away and it would take me too long to get there. So I asked a guy for help. He spoke no English either. We managed to communicate and he told me to take a bus there that was number 55 I believe. But I would have to go back the way I came to catch it. I made a motion with my fingers that I wanted to walk. He laughed and said no. He told me to take a taxi and to only pay 30 gr. So I crossed the street and hailed a cab. Before I got in I said 30 in Russian and he agreed.

So I finally made it there. I paid me fee to get in and the woman at the counter asked if I wanted a tour guide in English. I said ok and paid 150 gr. and waited for her.

She was young and pretty but had braces which made her look even younger. Which was good since it made me not want to flirt with her preventing me from getting into any kind of trouble. Her English was great and she gave me a good tour which lasted about 2 hours.

After the tour she was going back into downtown so we went together. We took a bus, the number 55, which took about 15 minutes to get to the Bessarabskiy market. It turned out that the Pecherska metro stop is nowhere near the monastery of the same name. I could have taken the bus there for pennies and gotten there in no time. Oh well, it was worth the experience.

The guide gave me her number in case I wanted a tour of the city with her for the same price for 2 hours. I thought it would be a good idea for the next day so we agreed to meet at 10 am.

I called R first thing after I got off the bus. She was disappointed that I had not called earlier since we could have gotten lunch together but she just got back to the office. This cell phone thing was getting irritating now. She would be getting out of work late that night so we made plans to meet at her work around 830.

We met up and she asked me what I wanted to do. We decided on dinner and I wanted to smoke a hookah so we went to a North African style restaurant called Marakesh. It was really beautiful. We had a private table with a sofa with pillows all over it. The decor was nice and the music was good. The food was fantastic. I spent about 500 gr there that night.

R was very tired from work and stress and was a bit quiet. I figured I would do most of the talking. But after a while the small talk was drying up. It was time to ask the hard questions.

I asked her if there were things about herself she didn't like. She said there were some things. She is an only child and is not always considerate of other people. In fact she said that she realizes that she sometimes hurts the people she cares about. Now some of you might be saying that should have raised some alarms but it didn't. She is aware of herself and if she can admit that shortcoming to herself and to me then that is pretty important in my book.

She talked about her childhood and how she was raised more by her grandparents than her parents. She told me how she took her grandfather for granted until he died one day. We talked about these sad subjects for a while. It was not the most pleasant conversation but I thought it was important.

She also said that she didn't know what she wanted out of life or how she envisioned her future. This is something she had been struggling with. We had talked about it before. I was not too worried about it though because if we were meant to be together then the future would take care of itself. I said she didn't need to know what she wanted 10 years from now she only needed to know what she wanted right now. And she needed to know if she wanted us to be there that instant together in that restaurant. She didn't tell me that she did. She said nothing and looked a little stressed. I had my hand on her knee most of the night but she didn't put her hand on mine or show any affection. Again, no thank you for dinner.

It was getting quite late and she had another long day ahead of her so we started to walk home. We were both a bit quiet. I told her my plan to make her dinner the next evening. But she told me she didn't think it was a good idea. Her mother had to go to Rotterdam for business and her father had to go to the Carpathians to check on a house they were building there so when she got out of work she had to walk the dog. I thought she was joking. Her parents flat is a 19 minute walk away from my flat.

She was serious though. She said it would be after 930 before we got to see each other and she didn't want to eat a late dinner. I was gutted. Food is very important to me and it is the best way I can show somebody that I care about them by making them a home-cooked meal. So I asked her what she would like to do instead.

She didn't answer. We got back to her folks place and I was not feeling good about the night. We kissed quickly and I told her to think about it and I would call her the next afternoon to get some lunch. Then we would decide what we were going to do.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Hmmm ... a lot of highs and lows with your trip. I hope you didn't feel too lost or confused.


Posted by: salvatore

Pinboy
The name of the agency was Ukraine Apartments or uaapartments.com and the number of the apartment I stayed in was KV112.
GTR
There certainly were highs and lows but I wouldn't say I was insecure. I was not even confused. I was more disappointed than anything. I felt that same as if it was happening in Boston. At least I had the distraction of being in an unfamiliar place so I didn't dwell too much on what might or might not happen.


Posted by: EasyTarget

Quote:
Originally Posted by salvatore
I stopped a young girl to ask (only because I figured she spoke English not because she was hot...though she was really hot!). She did speak English and tried to help but it was getting complicated so she decided to just bring me there.

I have given this advice numerous times in the past. If you are lost, or don't know where to go. Find a young woman - college age - and if you have a map in your hand 90% chance she will help you.
--should have gotten her phone number too.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by salvatore
Pinboy
The name of the agency was Ukraine Apartments or uaapartments.com and the number of the apartment I stayed in was KV112.
GTR
There certainly were highs and lows but I wouldn't say I was insecure. I was not even confused. I was more disappointed than anything. I felt that same as if it was happening in Boston. At least I had the distraction of being in an unfamiliar place so I didn't dwell too much on what might or might not happen.

Good for you. One rule about going to the FSU to meet a girl, consider it a vacation not a meeting with a beautiful woman ... and an attractive accent ... and a magical touch ... and someone you might be with the rest of your life ... and ... AHHHH I need to TRAVEL NOW!!!


Posted by: rk288

I'll be interested to see what happens next...you don't mention meeting her parents or any of her friends...


Posted by: salvatore

GTR, I definitely went into it thinking the same way. I will have a vacation if this doesn't work out was the attitude, but easier said than done. When I got there I really felt the pressure. I wanted to leave there knowing that we had a relationship to build on. But I really tried to think of it as a vacation.

And as far as meeting the parents or friends, I didn't even ask to meet them. The way the weeks leading up to my trip went, I didn't expect to see them. I thought that she wasn't sure how things were going to go and would not want to introduce me if this was going nowhere. I am sure many of these girls get embarrassed to meet these men and and either get dumped or do the dumping and then family and friends think less of them.


Posted by: salvatore

The next morning I met up with the tour guide I had from the day before. We had agreed on a 2 hour tour that would end by the Andrew Decent which is not far from where R works. That way I would be in the area around lunchtime and we could meet up for lunch.

We walked along and my guide told me some stories about Kiev. How it was founded and such. She was obviously very proud of her city. I noticed that about many of the people here.

We checked out St Sofia and Independence Square. We looked in some little nooks around the city and saw the Raven's Cage which was very odd. I had trouble paying attention to the tour. I was not very into it. I was so distracted by the conversation I had the night before with R. I just knew things were not going well.

Not only because of the conversation, but it caused me to pick up on little things that I had noticed but didn't pay attention to until now. Not only was I unsure of how she felt about me and what she wanted, but I wasn't sure how I felt about her either. Though, I was also worried that we were both being so cautious that we were holding back too much and not really letting ourselves just enjoy being with each other. I felt that this was an important day for us to see each other as much as possible.

When the tour was over we ended up beside St Andrew and I called R. She sounded upbeat on the phone. We had some small talk for a few minutes and then I asked her to lunch. She couldn't today she said. She was too busy and had a meeting. But she told me she decided dinner at my place would be good and she looked forward to it. So now at least I knew I could go to the market and buy some things.

I walked down down St Andrew Decent and looked at all the merchants selling souvenirs. I bought some of those Russian dolls that have the whole family inside. I also picked up some Soviet medals for my friends. I was able to pick out some that were very specific to the hobbies they had. For instance, one of my friends lifts weights and I found a great one with a body builder lifting some weights and another with a pilot for my friend who flies planes for fun. It is a beautiful street with all the vendors and artists and even people just playing backgammon. It kind of reminded me of Mont Martre in Paris.

I stopped and asked one of the vendors where he would have lunch and he recommended a place down in Podol. It turned out to be right next to the place Marakesh where we ate the night before.

It was really busy inside which is a good sign to me. It was cafeteria style which seems to be very popular here. Probably because it is so inexpensive. There wasn't much rhyme or reason to how the lines formed, but I was in no rush so I didn't mind.

I spotted the first American that I encountered in Kiev. I saw him a mile away with his bright white sneakers and fanny pack. He was balding but hadn't kept his hair neat at all. (Don't flame me, I am balding too!) He stuck out like a sore thumb since everybody here takes pride in their appearance and dress nice and keep their hair looking neat. He reached for a Coke but couldn't quite make it. So I helped him out and grabbed it for him. He said "spacibo" and I replied "you're welcome"

"Oh thank God an American" he said. He asked me where I was from and I told him Boston. He said he was from Utah and then added "You're not really from Boston!" Why do you think that I asked.
"You didn't say Bahston thats why!"
"Well, we don't say it like that. We say Boston just like you do."
"Well, do you warsh your clothes then?"
"We don't say warsh either. We say wash just like you"
I had to pay so I said goodbye. I hate to sound like a snob but but he was such a geek. Please, guys, when you travel dress well. You don't have to wear Gucci but they look so nice there so why look like a slob. It was a little embarrassing to see him like that and to have such a stupid conversation was a little depressing too. I would have rather had a conversation about why he was there and how he found Kiev. (Ok flame away)

I made my way back to the market to pick up some items for dinner. I got some flowers, 25 roses to be exact. Some wine and some candles. I got a beautiful pomegranate that I figure would be too expensive for her normally. It cost $6 so it seemed like a nice treat. Besides it would look so beautiful opened up with the seeds spilling out.

I got some fish which I assumed was halibut. That was an adventure trying to buy that. But as had been the case many times on this trip, you just seem to find a way to communicate and it makes it so much fun. I also got some spinach and some gorgeous mushrooms that were similar to porcini. Some butter was all that was left and I found some nice homemade butter. The prices were about what I would pay at home and I wondered how people managed to afford to eat here.

I got home and got the place straightened up and put out the flowers and got some cooking done. I did about half of it and left the rest for when R got there so it would be nice and hot when we were ready to eat. I called her around 730 and she told me she would be over around 900.

At about 9 I got the candles lit and and got ready for her. I watched some tv for a bit and waited...and waited...and waited. Around 10 she still wasn't there. So I called her at the office. And she was there. She sounded very aggravated that she was still there. But she said she was almost done and would surely be at my place before 11. Much later than we wanted to eat but there wasn't much we could do. She had the number for the apartment so I told her to call me when she was on her way.

So 11 rolls around and she still isn't there. All of a sudden I remembered that I never told her the code to unlock the front door. It was never closed but I figured it would be my luck that at this moment it would actually be closed and she couldn't get in. But she had my number I thought so it shouldn't be a problem either way. Just to make sure I went downstairs and checked the door. It was open. I ran back upstairs so if she called I wouldn't miss it. At least I knew the door wouldn't be an issue.

Long story short, I gave up on her arriving when it turned midnight. I checked the door again and again it was open. So there I was with a room full of flowers and candles lit everywhere. ice cold half cooked food on the stove and a bottle of wine open on the table. What a fool! I felt like the biggest loser on the planet. Why would she do this to me? How could she be so cruel? I didn't expect anything from her just because of the expense and time it took to get to Ukraine but one thing I did expect was a modicum of respect.

I couldn't eat any of the food I cooked or drink any of the wine. I couldn't sleep and didn't want to anyway since I had to leave at 430 am to go to the airport. Believe me when I tell you that I was tempted to walk over to her parents house and wake up the whole neighborhood screaming at her. But I didn't. What was the point? I already looked foolish enough. I didn't need to whole of Kiev to know that I had been jilted.

I thought of all the signs she had been showing me. I knew in the back of my mind things were not right. I should have said the very first night that it was not going to work and went on my way. I could have met other girls or simply said forget it I will just be another tourist here and see the sights and then head home in a few days. I felt stupid. But she could have been honest with me. She could have told me that she wasn't sure about things. But then, she might have been afraid I would try to convince her to just give it a chance. I can be very persuasive sometimes so I am sure she just didn't want to deal with it.

You can see how conflicted I was. On the one hand she could not be more wrong and then a second later I was blaming myself. I had totally wasted my time and money and I had to get over it. A few hours later I was on a plane to Paris where I would connect to get back to Boston.

I slept the entire way. As soon as I got to my gate in Paris I shut down. I found a spot behind a tv and lay on the floor and passed out until I heard my name called over the loudspeaker. They had started boarding the plane while I was asleep and called to make sure I was there so they didn't leave without me. As soon as I got buckled up in my seat I was out like a light again and did not wake up until they served dinner. Then I was out again until we were landing.

I got off the plane and got through customs. It was about 330pm and I still had to go to work for a few hours. I am a barber and I usually go in late and the other guy leaves early on Thursdays and Fridays. So it was Thursday and I got on the subway and headed to the shop. I was so depressed and angry and not wanting to go to work. Not only because I was tired, but I didn't want to answer any questions about the trip. I didn't want to even think about Kiev.

As soon as I got off the subway my phone started beeping that I had a message. I couldn't believe what I was reading. there were 3 messages from R. The first one was she went by my apartment but the door was closed and she didn't write down the phone number so she couldnt call me to let her in. The next was that she was sad that we didn't get to say goodbye in person and the last was asking me if I got into Boston alright.

Now I really felt stupid. But then, why didn't she call me when she was leaving like she said she would? Even before that, why didn't she call at 9 when she was running late? And the times I went down the door was open. I didn't know what to think.

So I put it out of my mind and went into work and worked until about 8. I never told anybody at work the real reason I was going to Kiev so I didn't have to tell anybody what happened. As far as anybody knew I was just in the mood for an adventure and went to Kiev. It wasn't far from the truth anyway.

I ate a light dinner when I got home and went right to bed. I slept really well considering what I had been through the last 24 hours. But I woke up very early.

The first thing I did was to call R at work. She answered right away and told me how sorry she was. But she didn't really sound sorry to me. I asked her why she didn't take the number or why she didn't call me when she left and she explained that she was flustered from having to work so late. Then I apologized and told her how bad I felt that it ended the way it did. I told her about the candles and the flowers. And that I wish I had just told her the code to the door just in case. She said that she thought of asking, but noticed when we went by there a couple of times that the door was never closed outside so she didn't think it would be an issue.

I needed to know what she was thinking now that I had been there but she didn't want to talk about it at work. So I asked her if she would write an e-mail for me. That way I figured if she was going to tell me she wasn't interested it would be easy.

I was really confused. I felt like it could have happened the way she said it did. But there was a part of me that didn't believe her. I took the rest of the day to figure out if even if it was true, did I even want to be with her. I never got that e-mail that day. She would not be able to send it until Monday when she got back to work. So that answered it for me. I did not want to be with her. I would not be going back to Kiev to meet her again.

I called her the next morning and got her on the phone right away. I got up at 6 am so I could catch her since I would not get out of work until 5. It would be late to call her then and I wasn't sure she would answer. She answered right away and said what a surprise since she knew I hated getting up that early. We chit chatted for a minute or two and she told me she was going to the theater with her friend to see and organ recital. But I wanted to talk about us. Well, she was putting on her make-up and could we chat tomorrow? Sure, I said. I would call back when we both had more time to talk.

That is the last time I talked to her. That was November 10. I tried calling her all day Sunday and all day Monday. I tried sporadically throughout the week and wrote her an e-mail as if nothing had happened. I never got one back or a text or anything. So a few day ago I wrote her another e-mail telling her goodbye and to grow up.

So there it is. Thats the end of the story.


Posted by: rk288

I know the story...

It was a good vacation though, huh?

The game is overplayed now after all these years especially in Ukraine...

Do not visit Ukraine! It is a network. You are wasting your time and money, period; end of story...Russia is next...forget about it unless you have millions of dollars...

Moscow has the greatest concentration of Billiionaires per square mile on the planet...what do you think these women are looking for??? Don't kid yourself...

Duh...

RK


Posted by: GoingToRussia

I'm sorry things didn't work out Sal. Take some time to mend and think about what went wrong and why ... also what went right and why. I try to learn something about myself or situations when I travel.

Take care and good luck with your next adventure.


Posted by: salvatore

Thats good advice. I really think that is the best way to learn from anything. To look at both the good and bad and make a determination.
I will be posting some odds and ends from the trip soon too so hopefully my experience might help somebody.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Very good idea Sal. We need members to post their thoughts, experiences, and outcome from trips ... good and bad. It helps everyone and that's how we learn round here. No one has all the answers.


Posted by: GoeastLJ

Sorry to hear that, Sal, but you will find that you could not have bought the experience from anywhere/anyone. You are better equipped now. The lady's behaviour is a bit odd (immature). I do know that some people start this whole business not knowing what to expect and get cold feet when things start to happen. Things like 'the man may actually come to visit' or 'I may have to leave my home country' do not occur to some ladies. All the same, decent women will realise the sacrifice you have made (money, time, emotion, overcoming fear of the unknown, etc) and give you a bit of their time even when they know nothing can develop between the two of you. The saying thank you bit is a red herring. There is far a bigger weight placed on pleasantries in the West, but very little in other cultures (Eastern, African). Gratitude is normally shown through general behaviour rather than words. This, though, is just a generalisation as there may be some who are perfectly aware of what is expected of them.


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by salvatore
The next morning I met up with the tour guide I had from the day before. We had agreed on a 2 hour tour that would end by the Andrew Decent which is not far from where R works. That way I would be in the area around lunchtime and we could meet up for lunch.

We walked along and my guide told me some stories about Kiev. How it was founded and such. She was obviously very proud of her city. I noticed that about many of the people here.

We checked out St Sofia and Independence Square. We looked in some little nooks around the city and saw the Raven's Cage which was very odd. I had trouble paying attention to the tour. I was not very into it. I was so distracted by the conversation I had the night before with R. I just knew things were not going well.

Not only because of the conversation, but it caused me to pick up on little things that I had noticed but didn't pay attention to until now. Not only was I unsure of how she felt about me and what she wanted, but I wasn't sure how I felt about her either. Though, I was also worried that we were both being so cautious that we were holding back too much and not really letting ourselves just enjoy being with each other. I felt that this was an important day for us to see each other as much as possible.

When the tour was over we ended up beside St Andrew and I called R. She sounded upbeat on the phone. We had some small talk for a few minutes and then I asked her to lunch. She couldn't today she said. She was too busy and had a meeting. But she told me she decided dinner at my place would be good and she looked forward to it. So now at least I knew I could go to the market and buy some things.

I walked down down St Andrew Decent and looked at all the merchants selling souvenirs. I bought some of those Russian dolls that have the whole family inside. I also picked up some Soviet medals for my friends. I was able to pick out some that were very specific to the hobbies they had. For instance, one of my friends lifts weights and I found a great one with a body builder lifting some weights and another with a pilot for my friend who flies planes for fun. It is a beautiful street with all the vendors and artists and even people just playing backgammon. It kind of reminded me of Mont Martre in Paris.

I stopped and asked one of the vendors where he would have lunch and he recommended a place down in Podol. It turned out to be right next to the place Marakesh where we ate the night before.

It was really busy inside which is a good sign to me. It was cafeteria style which seems to be very popular here. Probably because it is so inexpensive. There wasn't much rhyme or reason to how the lines formed, but I was in no rush so I didn't mind.

I spotted the first American that I encountered in Kiev. I saw him a mile away with his bright white sneakers and fanny pack. He was balding but hadn't kept his hair neat at all. (Don't flame me, I am balding too!) He stuck out like a sore thumb since everybody here takes pride in their appearance and dress nice and keep their hair looking neat. He reached for a Coke but couldn't quite make it. So I helped him out and grabbed it for him. He said "spacibo" and I replied "you're welcome"

"Oh thank God an American" he said. He asked me where I was from and I told him Boston. He said he was from Utah and then added "You're not really from Boston!" Why do you think that I asked.
"You didn't say Bahston thats why!"
"Well, we don't say it like that. We say Boston just like you do."
"Well, do you warsh your clothes then?"
"We don't say warsh either. We say wash just like you"
I had to pay so I said goodbye. I hate to sound like a snob but but he was such a geek. Please, guys, when you travel dress well. You don't have to wear Gucci but they look so nice there so why look like a slob. It was a little embarrassing to see him like that and to have such a stupid conversation was a little depressing too. I would have rather had a conversation about why he was there and how he found Kiev. (Ok flame away)

I made my way back to the market to pick up some items for dinner. I got some flowers, 25 roses to be exact. Some wine and some candles. I got a beautiful pomegranate that I figure would be too expensive for her normally. It cost $6 so it seemed like a nice treat. Besides it would look so beautiful opened up with the seeds spilling out.

I got some fish which I assumed was halibut. That was an adventure trying to buy that. But as had been the case many times on this trip, you just seem to find a way to communicate and it makes it so much fun. I also got some spinach and some gorgeous mushrooms that were similar to porcini. Some butter was all that was left and I found some nice homemade butter. The prices were about what I would pay at home and I wondered how people managed to afford to eat here.

I got home and got the place straightened up and put out the flowers and got some cooking done. I did about half of it and left the rest for when R got there so it would be nice and hot when we were ready to eat. I called her around 730 and she told me she would be over around 900.

At about 9 I got the candles lit and and got ready for her. I watched some tv for a bit and waited...and waited...and waited. Around 10 she still wasn't there. So I called her at the office. And she was there. She sounded very aggravated that she was still there. But she said she was almost done and would surely be at my place before 11. Much later than we wanted to eat but there wasn't much we could do. She had the number for the apartment so I told her to call me when she was on her way.

So 11 rolls around and she still isn't there. All of a sudden I remembered that I never told her the code to unlock the front door. It was never closed but I figured it would be my luck that at this moment it would actually be closed and she couldn't get in. But she had my number I thought so it shouldn't be a problem either way. Just to make sure I went downstairs and checked the door. It was open. I ran back upstairs so if she called I wouldn't miss it. At least I knew the door wouldn't be an issue.

Long story short, I gave up on her arriving when it turned midnight. I checked the door again and again it was open. So there I was with a room full of flowers and candles lit everywhere. ice cold half cooked food on the stove and a bottle of wine open on the table. What a fool! I felt like the biggest loser on the planet. Why would she do this to me? How could she be so cruel? I didn't expect anything from her just because of the expense and time it took to get to Ukraine but one thing I did expect was a modicum of respect.

I couldn't eat any of the food I cooked or drink any of the wine. I couldn't sleep and didn't want to anyway since I had to leave at 430 am to go to the airport. Believe me when I tell you that I was tempted to walk over to her parents house and wake up the whole neighborhood screaming at her. But I didn't. What was the point? I already looked foolish enough. I didn't need to whole of Kiev to know that I had been jilted.

I thought of all the signs she had been showing me. I knew in the back of my mind things were not right. I should have said the very first night that it was not going to work and went on my way. I could have met other girls or simply said forget it I will just be another tourist here and see the sights and then head home in a few days. I felt stupid. But she could have been honest with me. She could have told me that she wasn't sure about things. But then, she might have been afraid I would try to convince her to just give it a chance. I can be very persuasive sometimes so I am sure she just didn't want to deal with it.

You can see how conflicted I was. On the one hand she could not be more wrong and then a second later I was blaming myself. I had totally wasted my time and money and I had to get over it. A few hours later I was on a plane to Paris where I would connect to get back to Boston.

I slept the entire way. As soon as I got to my gate in Paris I shut down. I found a spot behind a tv and lay on the floor and passed out until I heard my name called over the loudspeaker. They had started boarding the plane while I was asleep and called to make sure I was there so they didn't leave without me. As soon as I got buckled up in my seat I was out like a light again and did not wake up until they served dinner. Then I was out again until we were landing.

I got off the plane and got through customs. It was about 330pm and I still had to go to work for a few hours. I am a barber and I usually go in late and the other guy leaves early on Thursdays and Fridays. So it was Thursday and I got on the subway and headed to the shop. I was so depressed and angry and not wanting to go to work. Not only because I was tired, but I didn't want to answer any questions about the trip. I didn't want to even think about Kiev.

As soon as I got off the subway my phone started beeping that I had a message. I couldn't believe what I was reading. there were 3 messages from R. The first one was she went by my apartment but the door was closed and she didn't write down the phone number so she couldnt call me to let her in. The next was that she was sad that we didn't get to say goodbye in person and the last was asking me if I got into Boston alright.

Now I really felt stupid. But then, why didn't she call me when she was leaving like she said she would? Even before that, why didn't she call at 9 when she was running late? And the times I went down the door was open. I didn't know what to think.

So I put it out of my mind and went into work and worked until about 8. I never told anybody at work the real reason I was going to Kiev so I didn't have to tell anybody what happened. As far as anybody knew I was just in the mood for an adventure and went to Kiev. It wasn't far from the truth anyway.

I ate a light dinner when I got home and went right to bed. I slept really well considering what I had been through the last 24 hours. But I woke up very early.

The first thing I did was to call R at work. She answered right away and told me how sorry she was. But she didn't really sound sorry to me. I asked her why she didn't take the number or why she didn't call me when she left and she explained that she was flustered from having to work so late. Then I apologized and told her how bad I felt that it ended the way it did. I told her about the candles and the flowers. And that I wish I had just told her the code to the door just in case. She said that she thought of asking, but noticed when we went by there a couple of times that the door was never closed outside so she didn't think it would be an issue.

I needed to know what she was thinking now that I had been there but she didn't want to talk about it at work. So I asked her if she would write an e-mail for me. That way I figured if she was going to tell me she wasn't interested it would be easy.

I was really confused. I felt like it could have happened the way she said it did. But there was a part of me that didn't believe her. I took the rest of the day to figure out if even if it was true, did I even want to be with her. I never got that e-mail that day. She would not be able to send it until Monday when she got back to work. So that answered it for me. I did not want to be with her. I would not be going back to Kiev to meet her again.

I called her the next morning and got her on the phone right away. I got up at 6 am so I could catch her since I would not get out of work until 5. It would be late to call her then and I wasn't sure she would answer. She answered right away and said what a surprise since she knew I hated getting up that early. We chit chatted for a minute or two and she told me she was going to the theater with her friend to see and organ recital. But I wanted to talk about us. Well, she was putting on her make-up and could we chat tomorrow? Sure, I said. I would call back when we both had more time to talk.

That is the last time I talked to her. That was November 10. I tried calling her all day Sunday and all day Monday. I tried sporadically throughout the week and wrote her an e-mail as if nothing had happened. I never got one back or a text or anything. So a few day ago I wrote her another e-mail telling her goodbye and to grow up.

So there it is. Thats the end of the story.


Hi Sal,
I know exactly how you feel. I don't want to sound strange in any way to you , but I have just gone thru some hell myself. If you check out what I have just been through you will be on the edge of your seat.

The only thing that I can tell you is that right now I wish I had your story to tell instead of mine. Sounds crazy, but so very true. At least your girl messed up everything quickly and made it obvious and you were done after trip number 1.

When and if you read about my venture this last year you will see why I would trade places with you in a second.

Your girl was a mess from the minute you were there but hid it well enough to try and make you think she was on the level with you.

My girl on my 1st trip was pure paradise and loving and caring and I was
100% sure that after that trip my future was sealed.

I WAS WRONG!

I am hurting now. I know what you felt like after that trip.

You sound like a great guy. HER LOSS for not even giving it her best shot.

You can go on thinking what went wrong. But it brings you back to the fact that "WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN YOU IS WHAT HAPPENED.

And you can't turn the clock back and do it differently. It's my opinion that your girl knew within the 1st 2 hours of meeting you face to face in the flesh what her intentions would be. She just couldn't tell you knowing how far you came.

Maybe there was no chemistry for her. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you. Because there is NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU!

I read somewhere where it's stated from psycologists that women and men know with the 1st 5 or ten minutes if there is sexual chemistry.

I hate to sound black & white but I will. If a women knows she has no desire whatsoever to ever let you have a sexual relationship with her even after dating you or meeting you , even if you are the greatest guy , she is not going to have sex with you and she knows you are not for her.

In other words" SHE KNOWS RIGHT THEN THIS GOING NO WHERE"

I'm sure some of the guys here might disagree and think that desire can come a little later after a few dates.

For me it is like this. If I meet a wonderful women and she is just the warmest loving person I have ever met and I know 100 percent that I will never have any desire to have sex with her, the most I would let her be to me is A FRIEND. So now my intent for spending the rest of my life with her is done.

I don't know about you or how some of the guys here will react to this but

I want my wife to not only have all of the great qualities but I WANT FIRE IN THE BEDROOM. I want her to want me and not take her hands off of me.

That all diminishes after years but sometimes it gets HOTTER as time goes by.

On my 1st trip to see my girl who just broke up with me we had FIRE if you know what I mean. My 2nd trip the fire was only from the summer heat . She was another person preoccupied with crap and not focused on me on trip number 2. Why, I will never know. I look back now and I'm sure she was not the same on trip 2 as she was on number one.

CRAZY, BUT TRUE!



I'm dragging this out to long. Sorry, I needed something to do today.

I was just browsing here and being that I have some experience in this game I figured I would throw in my 2 cents.

Don't give up your desire to find the right one. I will get back in again and whatever happens happens. I am just more aware of what to look out for this time. I made 3 trips there. One to a girl that was a disaster and 2 to the one that sent me an email to say we are done. She was supposed to arrive here within the next 3 months to spend the rest of her life with me.


GOOD LUCK. You will find what you deserve!


Posted by: salvatore

Royalpalace
I did read your story and it is heartbreaking. You're right I got off lucky. Compared to the time and money I could have wasted, mine is a drop in the bucket.
And I do agree with you that women decide right away if they want you or not. I actually think it is different with men. I was not too interested in the last girlfriend I had when i first met her. I grew to like her and became attracted to her over time. Eventually I thought she was beautiful when at the beginning I was not really that attracted to her.
With the Ukrainian though, I think she decided even before I got there that it would go nowhere. As soon as I told her I bought the ticket she changed. In fact I thought she would sound excited when I told her the news but in fact she was very nonplussed. She sounded as if I told her I would do the dishes. I think that she was not sure if she wanted to change her life at that point. If I had come over as an international financier instead of a barber maybe the outcome would have been different.
She definitely was not looking for a visa out of Ukraine or even my money, which I really liked, but if I were rich then maybe the money would have been more important to her. She really has no reason to want to leave Kiev. She has everything she wants and needs there. I think she was feeling a bit lonely and wondered what was out there. As soon as it got real, she didn't know what to do.
And you know, if things worked out and hypothetically I decided to live in Kiev, I wouldn't have wanted a life with her anyway. She works about 70 hours a week. I am leaving the U.S. next year to get away from that type of work environment. Here you need to have 2 incomes with both husband and wife working their tails off to make ends meet. I don't need to go to Kiev to have the same thing.
So I have not decided what I will do. I am still on elenasmodels and still get some e-mails and EOI's that I have not responded to yet. I am moving to Italy next September. I might just wait until I get there and then jump back into the scene and see what happens. At least if I meet somebody I am interested in, then I will only be a few hours away and I can see right away if she is right for me or me right for her.
Thanks for the kind words royal, I appreciate what you said about me. I really do feel badly about what happened to you and I would not wish that on even my worst enemy. I hope you are able to forgive really fast so you don't take out any of your frustrations on the next girl. It would be very easy for you to see red flags everywhere when there are none because of what happened to you.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Well I don't believe the ten minute statement. My ex-wife still tells me that she will probably be sorry for divorcing me. She also said she didn't want a divorce after saying she did. She changed her mind or re-thought her desition many times. She fianlly picked the other guy.


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
Well I don't believe the ten minute statement. My ex-wife still tells me that she will probably be sorry for divorcing me. She also said she didn't want a divorce after saying she did. She changed her mind or re-thought her desition many times. She fianlly picked the other guy.


I understand what you are saying, but I go by the theory

IT'S WHAT YOU DO , NOT WHAT YOU SAY.

My girl or I should say my ex said she missed me, I should wait for her to get hear and then we will fix the yard, she wants some kids. All just words.

Actions say it all. Don't get me wrong, I like to hear some nice good words addressed my way. But if you say something to me that you are gonna do, you better do it.

The one thing I don't like is when someone tells me what they think I want to hear just to keep the peace. As in Salvators story. His girl never came through on anything she said she was going to do. She didn't even show up to dinner after he came thousands of miles and had that special night ready for her.

It's sad. But I would have respect for a girl who told me on the phone that she doesn't think that we are right for each other. To not show up and say you came and the door was locked doesn't fly with me . Having a relationship with a women for a year and visiting her 2 times and both agreeing to a k1 and then she breaks up with you in an email doesn't fly with me either.

Some people just amaze me that they think they are doing the right thing and they are a million miles off base when it comes to communication.

WOW, could it be I am entering the angry stage!


Posted by: blucatz

I do believe you have entered the Angry stage RP.


Posted by: sidney

Discliamer first: I can't read womens minds and often just guess at what goes on inside their heads. These are what I've observed thru the years.
I think that RW will keep seeing a foreigner even if they don't feel any chemistry for different reasons.
They don't have many oportunities to go out to dinner/ theatre or other places that are beyond what locals have the means to afford. My wife was only to a restaurant a few times in her life before meeting me. What many earn in a month hardly provides the necessities of life. Given the choice RW will take the vacation and continue on with little commitment or hollow words. This is russia and was once communist so lying was a way of life and still is to a degree. That is why honesty was at the top of my list when I went looking. It was also important to ask some difficult questions before we got on too far. And YES I did drop some that didn't give answers that I was looking for. Be strong now before things progress and the only way out is by divorce.
They also may feel fidelity has a better chance with a foreigner. Many RM cheat on their wives with mistresses even though they are married. Same is true for RW since it takes two to tango. This is especially true with new russians. I saw this several tiimes when out at the opera. The wife is home with the kids. Often the wife keeps her mouth shut for fear of being thrown out into the street with the childen. The divorce laws are much different there with many RM not offering much support after divorce.
If RW want to end it they will take the non-confrontational approach. Or be afraid that their foreign friend persuade them to keep going. They won't answer calls. They know you are there for a short time so it is temporary. I was guessing/hoping the phone wasnt working. This did happen to me and I was glad that it was in the early stages and I didn't have too much time, money or emotion invested. Also if in the future they want to get back together DON"T. Find someone that knows what they want the last thing you need is an indecisive wife.
There are many RW with local boyfriends that go the foreign dating route. Sometime they look when things aren't going good with them and they feel a need for change. If they don't want to go someplace with you you'd better take off the rosey glasses because the red flags are starting to fly. They may have fear of running into someone and having a scene, Then again when things are rosey they may break off their forign affair if they feel a local gives better options. I had a friend that was taking trips there with a woman and she broke it off. Soon after one of her friends began communicating with him and he went to visit her. He was little more then a golden goose they had no intension of killing off. They were passing around the sucker.
Even with all the pitfalls there are gems to be found. Some get lucky by having found one the first trip. I envy them. For many others of us it takes much more time and effort. I see many good guys fail and give up or become angry at what they feel is unfair. The RW can also accumlulate some baggage from bad previous experience and I feel there are better choices. Iniatially I was looking for never married or divorced from a bad marriage. The idea being that they would appreciate a good relationship coming from a bad one. After experiencing some RW with irrepairable baggage I looked for only those not bring bagage into a relationship.
If RW don't have the blessing of their family it can end quickly. Show everyone involved that you are the best choice and that doesn't mean you'll spend the most. Throwing money at a problem seldom solves it, just look at gov't if you don't believe me.
This process takes a degree of discernment to go beyond the words and look closer at the actions. No matter how beautiful the RW when the flags begin flying be a man instead of a mat and end it.
Sid


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Sidney has a good point about SOME FSU women sticking with a relationship because of the new and exciting experiences like traveling and nice restaurants. But I want to emphasize that not ALL are like this.

I started contacting women about 1 month afer my divorce, I know it sounds quick but I really didn't have amarriage. I was with her for 1 week before I left. Anyway, after speaking to and writing many women I found 1 I might be interested in. As I got to know her, she sounded perfect and I couldnt find anything wrong with her. I still had hurt feelings and baggage from my divorce but I decided to go forth with a relationship so I made plans to see her.

I went with the intention of it being a vacation and I didn't want to get serious and fall in love with someone.

Well this girl WAS perfect and I tried to resist being serious and falling in love ... but that didn't work. After being with her for a week, meeting her son and sending an enjoyable evening together, and flying to Kiev ... I couldn't resist any longer. We spent the last days of my visit filling out a K-1 and getting the proper documentation.

My points are:

Not all, and probably most, FSU women are NOT going to keep a relationship going if they do not see a future. I think the older the women is, the more likely she will speak the truth. Yes there are exceptions but the women I met that were 39 and older were serious about finding a foreign husband ... for he right reasons.

Yes baggage is bad but it can be overcome with time and patients. She and I both had a lot of baggage but we talked about it and got it out of our system. It is "in the past" for us ... history.

The right woman can make you forget the hurt ad pain you feel. Now I'm not saying to find a girl because you are hurt because that is the wrong approach. Take it slow at first and you will know if it is the right girl.

Hang in there RP ... 2 more steps to go and good luck with your next adventure.


Posted by: GoeastLJ

Without disagreeing with what is being said here, I feel the process is more complicated than that. Meeting a serious partner is not easy - even if she lives next door. When you go out with a view to finding a wife, it is very easy to pick the wrong type. The perception of an RW has been made worse by what they write in their profiles. We believe every word they say, even if they copied and pasted from another profile.

We ignore any incompatibilities that may be apparent - some of us wrongly feel that the ladies will be grateful to us for us because we are going to improve their standard of living.

Most of us go into this without any experience and we hang on to every good word the ladies say. They are very clever people and most of them know what they want from life. I have met 8 RW and that has given me plenty of experience. Only one (St. Pete's) was blatantly a no-no, but I could have advanced with any of the others. I very much concentrated on behaviour, without ignoring what they said. I would be a very rich man if I knew what to look for in a lady's behaviour, but I think we all know what we are comfortable with and we have to make sure anything that doesn't feel right is questioned.

For example, one lady was too focussed on having a child before she was 35. This is not normally a reg flag, but it was for me because she said it more that I was comfortable with. I was focussed on us building a relationship between us - anything else should be a by-product of our relationship. From my side, I put in 100% and made sure the lady had my attention. It has been said here that playing house is also important because that gives you plenty of time to see if you can live together. Do you have enough to do together? If not, are you happy with her watching TV and you reading in a separate room?


Posted by: GoingToRussia

I didn't mean to trivealize the process. Yes it is more complicate then what I stated. I was only trying to points out that the "right" woman can make you forget about the past and love again.

It is a long, expensive, time consumimg, thought provoking, and gut wrenching process ... but having anythng good is never easy!


Posted by: goforit

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalpalace774
I understand what you are saying, but I go by the theory

IT'S WHAT YOU DO , NOT WHAT YOU SAY.

My girl or I should say my ex said she missed me, I should wait for her to get hear and then we will fix the yard, she wants some kids. All just words.

Actions say it all. Don't get me wrong, I like to hear some nice good words addressed my way. But if you say something to me that you are gonna do, you better do it.


We talk a lot on this site about how to avoid scammers, and that is a good thing. And one of the cardinal rules of avoiding scammers is never send money to someone you have never met.

But there are some foundational rules to dating as well, whether it is a foreign or domestic women. A major one is, watch what they do, not what they say, as RP mentions above. This one rule will save you from tons of heartache and yet it is one of the most violated rules in all of dating, courting, wooing, loving, whatever you want to call it. Women do this all the time with "bad boys". Guys treat them like crap but they will come back with something like "oh but he loves me" even though every action says otherwise. Her boyfriend is banging ten other girls or her husband is shagging the neighbors wife but a few choice words and the woman in question melts, gives him another chance, lets him back into her life only to be heartbroken again and again.

Well I'm convinced having read a number of similar stories across the internet (and seeing a lot of this over the years in my real life) that a lot of men suffer from the same problem, especially if they haven't done a lot of dating in their life. If a girls actions are at odds with her words, you ignore those actions at the peril of your own heart, and sometimes, if you are not careful, your pocketbook as well. And that is true whether she is American, British, Australian, or Russian. If she is not acting like she wants you (as opposed to just being shy), then she probably doesn't, plain and simple.

Forget about her words. Very few woman will talk to you straight when it might lead to confrontation or for fear of hurting you or for looking like she did something wrong with you relationally. In general, they just aren't built that way although I am sure there are some exceptions.

So, IMO, when you see behaviour that looks shaky, cut your losses and call it a day. Don't hope you can win her back. You won't. Don't profess your undying love for her and that you will be there no matter what. She doesn't care. And if by oft chance she does care, such a profession will only make it harder for her to do what she is going to do anyway. If her behaviour suggests another guy, then there probably is another guy. If she doesn't seem like she is really into you (even though she might have been in the past) then she probably isn't into you. Hard but true.

It might seem ruthless but