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Blacklists--A waste?
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Posted by: Chemist

I have been searching for a wife overseas for close to a year now. But I came to the conclusion pretty early on that blacklists seemed such a waste of time and bandwidth that I was amazed so much time was devoted to discussing them.

Anybody who has received spam in their mailbox about Nigerian money scams knows that there are people on the internet that want to take your money. Why is it such a surprise that an alleged RW would try and do the same thing?

And if scammers tend to follow the same patterns to scam people, what justifies maintaining massive databases of names, pictures and letters of the culprits. It seems like a lot of effort for nothing.

I also have an issue with the reliability of these lists. I have strong suspicions about the reliability and accuracy of these lists. I know of two women that appear on the lists but do not appear to be scammers at all.

A guy should already be busy writing letters to the thousands of appealing women on the internet and thinking about trying to win their heart, and we're expecting him to search through databases of ALLEGED scammers?

Posted by: ira156

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chemist

I have been searching for a wife overseas for close to a year now. But I came to the conclusion pretty early on that blacklists seemed such a waste of time and bandwidth that I was amazed so much time was devoted to discussing them.

Anybody who has received spam in their mailbox about Nigerian money scams knows that there are people on the internet that want to take your money. Why is it such a surprise that an alleged RW would try and do the same thing?

And if scammers tend to follow the same patterns to scam people, what justifies maintaining massive databases of names, pictures and letters of the culprits. It seems like a lot of effort for nothing.

I also have an issue with the reliability of these lists. I have strong suspicions about the reliability and accuracy of these lists. I know of two women that appear on the lists but do not appear to be scammers at all.

A guy should already be busy writing letters to the thousands of appealing women on the internet and thinking about trying to win their heart, and we're expecting him to search through databases of ALLEGED scammers?

Hey Chemist welcome to RMP. You still see letters from Niferia or wherever...the reason there are still people falling for it. I tend to agree about the lists. It is much more helpfull to get on a site like here and get the warnings from people that have the experience. The scammers can just change the photo or name as is the usual trick. But if someone wants to spend the time updating them and someone else feels the need to look then good luck to them. I feel its a much wiser thing to get the systems the scammers use and do your best to avoid them through knowledge

Posted by: Thorburn

I think you make a good point. I wouldn't call them a waste though.
I have read about guys getting suspicious and THEN using the blacklists.

Posted by: Chemist

Thanks for the welcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorburn

I have read about guys getting suspicious and THEN using the blacklists.

I suggest that if a man is already consulting the blacklists, then he is already suspicious (or paranoid) and wants some validation. He has the feeling that something isn't right.

I only had one scam attempt against me, and that was when I first started looking abroad. I was suspicious even before the money request. She did not appear on any blacklists that I've searched and she took down her profile before I had a chance to report her. Besides that, no scammer has bothered me.

Unfortunately, I'm seeing a darker side. There were two women that I was corresponding with that seemed rather sweet and nice. They eventually informed me that they decided we weren't right for each other and ceased correspondence. These two women appear on blacklists! I found it strange that a "scammer" would break contract with me before asking for money. The letters that also appear with the photos on the blacklist looked nothing like the letters they wrote to me either. I suspect a scammer is stealing their pictures or men are using blacklists to get revenge on some women that decide to stop corresponding. It's a shame. Perhaps hundreds of women are being falsly blacklisted!

I suggest for guys is to use your brain and not trust the blacklists.

Posted by: Manchester

When I started out I used Jims Lists. However, recently it has come to light that Jim may have been charging agencies to appear on his gold lists. Added to which Jim used his site to ***** about Agencies he did not like and even put up some forums on his "black list".

Then recently another forum set up a dubious accreditation body that charged agencies for approval, then further pushed themselves down the hole by setting up a spoof site complete with forum to discredit Jims Lists. They were pulled apart for both endeavours on RWG recently.

Also, it seems Jims Lists and some others block FSU IP's thus preventing women from checking themselves and by consequence a right of reply if they feel they have been wrongly listed. Added to which many sites list women as scammers with only one guys say so and little proof (maybe she just didnt dig him?) and some get honest girls pics published with scammers details etc.

So it is not a perfect science, whilst some of them can be of some use, and as can forums, as always, google is your friend.

If mods allow links to other forums on here - you can see Dan of RWD being pulled apart on RWG here on CMA agency accreditation http://rwguide.com/forums/topic.cfm?topic=4042&page=1 and here about his spoof site about Jims Lists: http://rwguide.com/forums/topic.cfm?topic=4384&page=1

Posted by: Dave_N_Elvira

Chemist,
Blacklists serve as a great source of how a scammer works. The Nigerian scam can be identified straight out as a scam and it’s the same old MO every time. However when dealing with a RW scammer, their methods vary greatly. Some of the scammers you don’t even are scammer until a month or so down the track. One lady I shared some 20 letters with before she finally pulled the old sick relative bull on me. Up until then everything seemed normal and I was pretty experienced with dealing with scammers at the time. Basically I wasted some 20 hours+ on letters. If you were able to identify this woman on a list prior to that and learn it was her MO then how is that a waste of time? You are right that not every woman deserves to be on the blacklists. Some men just put women there out of spite. But there are lots who do deserve to be on there and warning other people of what to expect from them is important.

Posted by: rk288

Bottom line my friend...do you have a lot of disposable income? You will need it. Can you visit the fsu many times; more than once a year? My experience over 3 years has been a lot of scammers...it seems to be the mode now...over played...I was asked once by a 19 year old "How many emails do you think I can send in 1 second?" I answered..."one"...he laughed and replied "15"...it's a wild game over there now....

Do be very attentive to "red flags" and do visit more than one time if you find someone who is attractive to you...

Take your time, be patient. Don't let yourself be sucked in or confused by language and cultural barrier issues, another game...they are often "smoke and mirrors magic...very appealing, very charming...

RK

Posted by: markgm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chemist

Thanks for the welcome.

I suggest that if a man is already consulting the blacklists, then he is already suspicious (or paranoid) and wants some validation. He has the feeling that something isn't right.

I only had one scam attempt against me, and that was when I first started looking abroad. I was suspicious even before the money request. She did not appear on any blacklists that I've searched and she took down her profile before I had a chance to report her. Besides that, no scammer has bothered me.

Unfortunately, I'm seeing a darker side. There were two women that I was corresponding with that seemed rather sweet and nice. They eventually informed me that they decided we weren't right for each other and ceased correspondence. These two women appear on blacklists! I found it strange that a "scammer" would break contract with me before asking for money. The letters that also appear with the photos on the blacklist looked nothing like the letters they wrote to me either. I suspect a scammer is stealing their pictures or men are using blacklists to get revenge on some women that decide to stop corresponding. It's a shame. Perhaps hundreds of women are being falsly blacklisted!

I suggest for guys is to use your brain and not trust the blacklists.

Almost 98% of the photos a scammer will use are not there own Blacklist are needed you might not find what you are looking for but others might.
If they were a scammer they would have broken contact with you once realizing you were not an easy target for money this is quite normal.

Posted by: rk288

Quote from your post...

I suggest that if a man is already consulting the blacklists, then he is already suspicious (or paranoid) and wants some validation. He has the feeling that something isn't right.

Yes, be very paranoid and careful...your words and mine...

RK

Posted by: Chemist

I can share what happened with the scammer that contacted me. She didn't really match the typical scammer profile that you often read about:

She never sent any photos of herself in lingerie or swimsuits (or naked). They were all in normal clothing in normal environments with no "come and get me" poses. Her letters were very brief, maybe five or six lines. No long-winded letters about trust, undying love and faithfulness with excessive exclamation points. She answered most of my questions. There were a few days between replies. There were no unique phrases or misspellings in the letters that I could google. Her name also resulted in no hits when searching. There were no red flags that I can see.

Fortunately, there was one quality that every scammer has in common: the money request. And it wasn't the "visa-ticket scam" or "tragedy strikes scam". She asked for a nominal amount for english lessons to improve her english.

The blacklists simply didn't help me at all. This was early on in my search and I haven't had a scam attempt against me since. I wonder if the scammers keep blacklists of western men that don't pay (call it a "stingy" list). That would be funny!

The agencies will boil this down to the basic principle: "Don't send money". We should also be a little more informative about how the scammers operate. I don't oppose this.

But does this justify maintaining huge databases of names and letters and pictures? And expect a newbie to pick apart his letter and search through these databases for a smoking gun? A newbie can spend hours doing this while a scammer can switch identities so easily. Who would be ahead of the curve in this case?

If we're going to take these lists seriously, than I expect the adminstrators of the list to do everything possible to insure accuracy. They don't do this and that bothers me the most.

Posted by: Chemist

Quote:

Originally Posted by rk288

Bottom line my friend...do you have a lot of disposable income? You will need it. Can you visit the fsu many times; more than once a year? My experience over 3 years has been a lot of scammers...it seems to be the mode now...over played...I was asked once by a 19 year old "How many emails do you think I can send in 1 second?" I answered..."one"...he laughed and replied "15"...it's a wild game over there now....

Do be very attentive to "red flags" and do visit more than one time if you find someone who is attractive to you...

Take your time, be patient. Don't let yourself be sucked in or confused by language and cultural barrier issues, another game...they are often "smoke and mirrors magic...very appealing, very charming...

RK

Sorry to hear that you've had a lot of scammers. I'm not sure why certain men attract scammers while others don't. That can be an interesting topic for discussion.

To answer your question:
I visited a Ukrainian girl last August. I visited a Russian girl after New Years but she was already in the US so I don't know if you want to count that one. I am planning another visit to see a third woman in a couple of months.

I may still be a newbie....but not THAT new

Posted by: GoeastLJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chemist

But does this justify maintaining huge databases of names and letters and pictures? And expect a newbie to pick apart his letter and search through these databases for a smoking gun? A newbie can spend hours doing this while a scammer can switch identities so easily. Who would be ahead of the curve in this case?

Most Lovestruck men are very trusting (shall we say naive) and some of them could be using the internet for the sole purpose of finding real love. They would usually had never heard of the term scammer and so when a pretty woman flaunts herself in front of their PC, they think they have struck the jackpot. They don't know the existence of any advice or forums to do with internet dating and so only become 'newbies' after being fleeced by the scammer! I think the database is still useful and would help someone who is aware of the capability of the likes google.

I do agree with the comments made earlier about some honest women wrongly ending up on such a database. Some men may add a woman on the scammer list simply because she didn't like him.

Posted by: mistermopar

I find it amazing how many scammers still use their (or someone else's)photo on multiple sites even when their photo has been posted on multiple scam sites.
I can picture some of them right now,and they still try playing the same game over and over with new people.
So I guess what I am saying is that they can be of some help,also scam sites usually offer info on the differant games scammers play.

Randy