The Russian Meeting Place: A place to meet people and talk about all things Russian...

International Discussions about Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Travel, Music, Russian News, Ukrainian culture, Belarusian Dating, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, Kiev and other intelligent topics about life in the former Soviet Union.

     


                                

              

Pages: 1

male black list

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: youlek

I don't know where to place this thread...
Some of you think I am against foreign men. In fact it is not true.
Just I am rather cinic towards the Internet love.
http://forum.antidate.org/index.php?showforum=3
that's the site where women placed info about foreign men, who just play with women and their feelings.
Men turn out to be married, liars and etc
Look it through, maybe you'll be surprised to find yourself in it


Posted by: Pin Boy

sounds similar to the member clarita from a few years back. wasn't antidate her website? something called lavalove too i think.

pb


Posted by: Raspberry

As they say, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander".


Posted by: Manchester

She uses the handle 'antidate' on RWG and 'Kvinna' on antidate itself. Antidate and Lilla Villa and a few other sites are one and the same. FSU feminist central.


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchester
FSU feminist central.


No, they are not. Russian feminist central is Maria Arbatova's site.


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchester
She uses the handle 'antidate' on RWG and 'Kvinna' on antidate itself. Antidate and Lilla Villa and a few other sites are one and the same. FSU feminist central.



Well, not entirely correct.

Clarita and Kvinna are two different people. I know them a bit.

They are associated however.

The correct names of their sites are AntiDate.org and LillaVilla.com

Antidate is their male black list. They felt the need for women to be able to have some of the same resources as many foreign men, althought it is slowly changing, many FSU women still don't have the type of access to the internet that we have here in Western countries.

They felt that there are also male scammers and in some instances there were women that were black listed out of spite, etc and many women didn't know they were black listed (possibly unfairly), so they wanted to try to make things more fair.

They don't hate foreign men and they are looking for a nice man, however, they feel there is a need for information. They welcome anyone on their site that feels they were unfairly blacklisted. They are open to discussion.

Their sentiments are that quite often they are banned or blacklisted themselves for their outspoken views, sometime when they are trying to dispell myths or stereotypes about FSU women, etc.


Posted by: Leprechaun

Theres no doubt, that sites like this are needed. Name them and shame them.....

Just dont get it wrong.


Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:
Originally Posted by youlek

Men turn out to be married, liars and etc
Look it through, maybe you'll be surprised to find yourself in it



A law enforcement agency of the U.S. Government, mostly concerned with online issues, did a study a few years ago about online dating. I shall see if I can find the actual study and post it. It did no include foreign dating sites just the one’s in the U.S.

But it said that about 50% of the men using online dating website were married and about 35% of the women.

As for men being Liars I think the above states would be similar or greater in value.


Posted by: youlek

yes, such sites MUST exist.
Because some men are scammers too. But they don't scam for money, they scam for feelings. and it is unknown what it is more terrible
look what one of the women, who I know, received from a man

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/yulka80/r_wth.jpg
sorry if it is one of you. he-he


Posted by: azamuner

My Eyes!!!!

You should have had a warning on that.

Now I'm scarred.

*Rocks in a fetal position*


Posted by: youlek

Quote:
Originally Posted by azamuner
My Eyes!!!!

You should have had a warning on that.

Now I'm scarred.

*Rocks in a fetal position*

he-he
imagine how she was shocked when she received it


Posted by: AkMike

Better now than later... That'd be an eye opener at a "compromising" time... YECH!


Posted by: youlek

actually it was in his 1st letter


Posted by: Turboguy

I think we guys get obsessed with the scammers and GCG's we run into but I have heard a few horror stories from the other side and sometimes the girls can run into situations as bad or worse than we do.

I did look through the Anti-date black list a while back and to be honest it is probably much longer than any black list I have seen for RW. I was happy to see that I could not find myself in it. I have done my best to make sure no one felt I should be.


Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
I think we guys get obsessed with the scammers and GCG's we run into but I have heard a few horror stories from the other side and sometimes the girls can run into situations as bad or worse than we do.

I did look through the Anti-date black list a while back and to be honest it is probably much longer than any black list I have seen for RW. I was happy to see that I could not find myself in it. I have done my best to make sure no one felt I should be.



Yes there are many not so good men......

I have 2 friends who use to work for the Large marriage agency in Kyiv as translators (no I will not name it)......and WOW do they have stories to tell and lots of them!!!

Both of them after about 1 year quit as they could not stand it any more (both are strict Orthodox)....In there opinion it was a flesh trade......women wanted stuff or green card and man wanted women and neither was shy about it.....dinner was just a informal discussion of the price and procedure to attain it.


Posted by: Turboguy

I have to agree with that. I have a lot of friends who are or have been looking for a wife from the FSU. There are a lot of really great guys but there are some who just really should not be persuing this for one reason or another. I have also met a lot of women from the FSU. There are a lot of really good and sincere women but there are some that have really bad motives. I am glad that Anti-date has that black list. I hope that is saves some from heartache.


Posted by: too_tall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
I have to agree with that. I have a lot of friends who are or have been looking for a wife from the FSU. There are a lot of really great guys but there are some who just really should not be persuing this for one reason or another. I have also met a lot of women from the FSU. There are a lot of really good and sincere women but there are some that have really bad motives. I am glad that Anti-date has that black list. I hope that is saves some from heartache.


Turbo, I agree that bad men should be blacklisted. I was blacklisted and I was eventually removed from the blacklist and instead listed as a trip reporter
and as a man who somehow degraded Russian women just by filing a trip report.

I honestly believe that bad guys.......Married men, men with STDs, Men who abuse women, men who make women pregnant and disappear, men who send naked photos and tell women to send naked photos or they will report them as scammers these men should be blacklisted

They need to make some kind of requirements about what a man has to do to achieve this status. Or else you or me or any Russian woman could put any person on this list. They need to set some standards.

Just my two kopecks

Bill


Posted by: Turboguy

Bill, I have read some of their thread about you. It was funny some to read some of the wild comments they had.

I do agree with you. We had posts here about how careful they are to check thier sources and to make sure only bad guys were listed. It is obvious that those statements were not true.

If something is worth doing it is worth doing right. They are not doing it right.


Posted by: mistermopar

How do I find out if I have been black listed on that site???

Randy


Posted by: ham

While AS ORIGINALLY INTENDED the "idea" isn't bad ( not worse than ANY other topic-based blacklist ), what must be emphasized and brought to attention is that not only can ANY blacklist be (ab)used by angry lone wolves, but that AD site has been rumored to be the tool of agency owners/peddlers, who threaten opponents with public display on the site. Hardly anything new, since ALL COMMERCIAL FORUMS have been (ab)used for that purpose.

Of course there are men who are deviants, players, and mostly MISREPRESENTING THEMSELVES (all these bachelor six figures glamour figures...) and i have been exposing their activity since time immemorial.
On the other hand, many people into online dating ( not necessarily MOB ) exhibit serious personality or attitude flaws and a number are pathological deviants. Here we aren't talking about voting the "wrong" party or supporting the "wrong" idea, but rather about gender benders, multiple personalities, not to mention "professional" conpeople & criminals.


Posted by: Zmejka

Quote:
Originally Posted by too_tall
They need to make some kind of requirements about what a man has to do to achieve this status.


Bill, we have such criteria, it's written in a section for newbies, if you want i could pm you a link for it.
Here they are (in translation):

1. Cruel or inadequate behaviour towards a woman, sexual perversion during the meeting, after marriage without prior warning.
2. Putting a woman into a black list with no reason but one - to take a revenge.
3. Pursuit of a woman
4. Threatening any type of harm
5. Deceit in letters before real meeting such as in:
a) age more than 5 years
b) having children
c) being married or separated
d) having mental deseases
e) criminal background
f) financial state as unpaied debts, place of work
6. Requests of borrowing money from a woman and promises to give them back and breaking that promises
7. Sending nasty pictures without woman's request (also through webcamera)
8. Humiliation in letters
9. Such facts as giving much promises and breaking them, making a girl pegnant and leaving her etc.
10. Sexual harrasment without woman's consent.


Posted by: Zmejka

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermopar
How do I find out if I have been black listed on that site???

Randy


Randy, you can check the black board on the site in your country section

Guys, if you have any complaints about someone who was put into black list (or accidentally that was you ) with no reason you can adress your complaints to me


Posted by: mistermopar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmejka
Randy, you can check the black board on the site in your country section

Guys, if you have any complaints about someone who was put into black list (or accidentally that was you ) with no reason you can adress your complaints to me


Thank you for the information...

Randy


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmejka
5. Deceit in letters before real meeting such as in:
a) age more than 5 years


Well that is interesting. The woman I am currently seeing lied to me about her own age by 8 years. I wonder if women should be held to the same standard? Or is that just woman's perogative?

I was actually happier that she was was older than what she had told me. Indeed I nearly never wrote to her at all because I thought the age gap was too great.


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmejka
Bill, we have such criteria, it's written in a section for newbies, if you want i could pm you a link for it.
Here they are (in translation):

1. Cruel or inadequate behaviour towards a woman, sexual perversion during the meeting, after marriage without prior warning.
2. Putting a woman into a black list with no reason but one - to take a revenge.
3. Pursuit of a woman
4. Threatening any type of harm
5. Deceit in letters before real meeting such as in:
a) age more than 5 years
b) having children
c) being married or separated
d) having mental deseases
e) criminal background
f) financial state as unpaied debts, place of work
6. Requests of borrowing money from a woman and promises to give them back and breaking that promises
7. Sending nasty pictures without woman's request (also through webcamera)
8. Humiliation in letters
9. Such facts as giving much promises and breaking them, making a girl pegnant and leaving her etc.
10. Sexual harrasment without woman's consent.


Zmejka

I have never visited your site, but I do agree with most of the conditions you have posted here.

However, Item 3 - Pursuit of a woman - isn't this what most men are contacting women for? or do you really mean as in "Stalking" type behaviour?

Also Item 5f - financial state as unpaied debts - Western society is based on credit not like FSU which is still a cash society in the main, therefore most Westerners men and women alike have unpaid debts, be it a mortgage, car loan, credit cards etc etc, should this not be clarified as I see this an area where maybe some FSU women would not necessarily understand what is meant by unpaid debts.

Just my 2 Kopecs

Chris


Posted by: Zmejka

deccie, i think when a woman lies about her age - it's quite rare situation and i suppose your woman told you about her true age before! the meeting. But situations when a man pretended to be 45, for example, but really he's 57 - a girl happens to know only when seeing him. I think it's not a proper behaviour.
If he was afraid that a girl wouldn't reply to him due to his age - then in gneral he should have not contacted girls who seek men younger than him (and stated that in their profiles).

Chrismc, yes, i meant stalking, you're right.
As for debts may be FSU women wouldn't understand much if a man would say he has $50 000 debts or more (or less). But it was meant that a man should say about his debts before! marriage and not after, so a woman can consult somebody if it is much and what responsibility will she have after marriage - paying his debts by going to work from the day 2 i think is not what women would prefer to have after arrival. I think it's an important issue.


Posted by: Turboguy

I agree to an extent that those are not good things but I think the interpretion is a lot too. Another problem that is common is old photos. I have had women in their 40's write to me sending me photos only from when they were teenagers in school. I met one woman long ago that it would have been impossible to recognize from her old photos which were 10 years old and 50 pounds lighter.

My view on the writing women beyond thier specified age requirements are that it depends on how far you stretch it. I had ads I did not answer because I was out of their age requirments and a few weeks later they wrote to me. I stretched it some figuring they had a delete button if they were not interested, but would have never written to a woman who she was intersted meeting a man to 30. I had a very high response rate from the ones I stretched a few years. I am sure had they all written back saying they were not looking for a grandfather I would have not stretched it at all.

As far as the debt part, America is so different than Russia that a man who has a half million dollar mortgage on a one million dollar house may be better off financially than a man living in an apartment with $ 10,000 in debt. How much he owes means nothing if he can pay his bills on time.


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmejka

Chrismc, yes, i meant stalking, you're right.
As for debts may be FSU women wouldn't understand much if a man would say he has $50 000 debts or more (or less). But it was meant that a man should say about his debts before! marriage and not after, so a woman can consult somebody if it is much and what responsibility will she have after marriage - paying his debts by going to work from the day 2 i think is not what women would prefer to have after arrival. I think it's an important issue.


Zmejka thanks for clearing that up, at the end of the day there is no substitute for just being honest with each other from the start. That is how I have acted in my contacts and meetings with RW, it does work both ways though, but honesty of both parties sure can save a lot of time wasted, heartache and sometimes money.


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy

As far as the debt part, America is so different than Russia that a man who has a half million dollar mortgage on a one million dollar house may be better off financially than a man living in an apartment with $ 10,000 in debt. How much he owes means nothing if he can pay his bills on time.


I agree Turbo....that is a good point and what I was illuding too, but you have explained it in a different way.


Posted by: Rockyof Florida

Since they have criteria that they use, fair is fair. There are blacklists for women, so there should be a blacklist for men. After seeing the videos of those tours in another thread, some of those guys need to be on a blacklist.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmejka
deccie, i think when a woman lies about her age - it's quite rare situation and i suppose your woman told you about her true age before! the meeting. But situations when a man pretended to be 45, for example, but really he's 57 - a girl happens to know only when seeing him. I think it's not a proper behaviour.
If he was afraid that a girl wouldn't reply to him due to his age - then in gneral he should have not contacted girls who seek men younger than him (and stated that in their profiles).

.


Actually, she did not tell me. I found out her correct age from an external source. Like I said I was actually releived she was older than she said but I have a hard problem with men being judged one way and women being judged another for the same lie.

She had the view that if she stated her correct age no one would contact her.


Posted by: Turboguy

I have not seen the exact videos you are talking about so I have to speculate. If it is an old fat guy talking to a hot young chick that is no reason he should be on a black list. He just listened to too much agency hype and found some gals willing to empy his back pocket. I don't think black lists are about suckers or guys who believe all the agency garbage as long as the are respectful and sincere.

If it is some rude obnoxious drunk or a sex toursit yes.


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
Bill, I have read some of their thread about you. It was funny some to read some of the wild comments they had.

I do agree with you. We had posts here about how careful they are to check thier sources and to make sure only bad guys were listed. It is obvious that those statements were not true.

If something is worth doing it is worth doing right. They are not doing it right.


Here you are again Turbo As far as I recall you told you had read only "some" of those 20+ pages ( wrote in Russian language which you didn;'t understand well) in a middle of a night .Judging by what you posted later you got not too many from what you have read.
There was a DISCUSSION of Bill's case After that discussion he was listed like trip-reporter but not like sex tourist. Discussion was opened for all sides , includin Bill himself. So what "they" were doing wrong? And do YOU have some ideas about what and how should be done "right" ?


Posted by: Turboguy

Ellen, you are right. I am not in a position to make a good judgement about your black list one way or the other. I can't read most of it. I have formed my judgement by the posts here. First I think it was Ksena who outlined a very good program to make sure it was a good list. Then there were other posts that indicated those programs were not being followed and that there were people on it that did not belong. Than I read about 2 pages of the post on Bill and he was being discussed half as a sex tourist and half as a fool. Some of the things they were laughing about were a little petty, like him giving some girls a stick of gum and I think they were looking at it as if he was treating them like children.

I like the idea of the black list. We have them for women and there are bad guys. I based my opinion on the comments here by anti date women. I wish my Russian was better so I could form an opinion directly.


Posted by: freebird

Can someone tell me what a "trip reporter" is?


Posted by: Turboguy

A trip reporter would be new to me. A trip report is when we post a detailed version of one of our travels ususally searching for woman. I guess a trip reporter would be someone who posts one of those reports.


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
A trip reporter would be new to me. A trip report is when we post a detailed version of one of our travels ususally searching for woman. I guess a trip reporter would be someone who posts one of those reports.


Yes Trip reporter is that who posts reports ( some times they are VERY detailed ) about his adventures in FSU. Bill was honored to be the first in that category ( though truth tell I think there were some more "decent" candidates for that postion)

Ps About BIll and his sticks of gum It was one of that thing which I for example took like his attempt to tread Russians not like children but like some sort of aborigens who never saw such an athivment of human civilisation like a gum.) May be he had not such intention but it looked exactly like that.
It was one of those little things wich formed such negative reaction to his trip report.

PSS to Turbo If you admit by yourself you have not read much at antidate then may be you will stop at last to post your negative commnets about antidate here and there?


Posted by: Turboguy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
PSS to Turbo If you admit by yourself you have not read much at antidate then may be you will stop at last to post your negative commnets about antidate here and there?


Ellen I come to these forums to try to learn all I can about what I am attempting to do in the personal side of my life and in the hopes I can do everything right and make my RW the happiest woman in the world. I also am happy to help anyone if they have situations that are new to them that I have been through.

The women from Anti-Date do not always have such high purposes. I know what goes on behind the scenes at AD or at least some of it. I don't consider it something they shoud be proud of.

Is there not a forum somewhere that tried to reach out a hand and build some ties with AD and in return they now describe what happened to them as an attack that nearly destroyed them and did they not have to ban many of the AD women to salvage thier board.


Posted by: Cheburashka

Well I learned something today. If I ever come across a Russian lady with bad breath, don't offer them a stick of gum. I guess it is better to have skunk breath than to be insulted like they have no concept what gum is.

Never too old to learn!


Posted by: mistermopar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheburashka
Well I learned something today. If I ever come across a Russian lady with bad breath, don't offer them a stick of gum. I guess it is better to have skunk breath than to be insulted like they have no concept what gum is.

Never too old to learn!


Good info to know Cheb..

Randy


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
Ellen I come to these forums to try to learn all I can about what I am attempting to do in the personal side of my life and in the hopes I can do everything right and make my RW the happiest woman in the world. I also am happy to help anyone if they have situations that are new to them that I have been through.


Good for you. Just don;t think that you are the only one in the world who can be interesting and useful for others with your expereince.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
The women from Anti-Date do not always have such high purposes. I know what goes on behind the scenes at AD or at least some of it. I don't consider it something they shoud be proud of.

Wonder how you can know about "purpose" of AD girls and about what;s going on behind the scene? ( execept collecting rumores of course which are not fine sourse of information and are not enough for posting your opinion based on that rumores. )

Also if you open your mouth and say A you also should say B and name openly those low purpose of AD girls and those "awuful" things wich go behide the scense. Because such accusation like you did just now without proofes and facts look not decent thing in principal matter and also could give too much fuel for some minds with rich imagination which some people possess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
Is there not a forum somewhere that tried to reach out a hand and build some ties with AD and in return they now describe what happened to them as an attack that nearly destroyed them and did they not have to ban many of the AD women to salvage thier board.

I know SOMEONE such forum ( where you got the same punisment like I did ) which was almost destroyed by local guys themselves. Because a group of active posters there could accept no one opinion which went across to their own. As for a hand of help then IF you really knew what's goining on beind the scence of that "some" forum you would have better idea about who bited whose hand and you could not say you're proud of actios of local guys of that forum. ( or you have rather odd idea about proud)

Anyway talks are about antidate forum which you can't read, can't know from first hand what's going on there So you have no right to post your opionion about the forum. Better post your advices and ideas what and how should be done with that black lists of males if you are such expereineced boy in this business.

As for AD girls who destroy "others" forums then HELLOOO, darling ! I'm HERE, my style of posting like you can see is NOT different to what I posted at that "one" forum So here everybody can judge by him/her self ( without your such kind help) how "dangerouse" I am. That's better than to drag rumors from one board to another and post opinion anf foggy hints based on those rumors .


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheburashka
Well I learned something today. If I ever come across a Russian lady with bad breath, don't offer them a stick of gum. I guess it is better to have skunk breath than to be insulted like they have no concept what gum is.
Never too old to learn!


NOw such a kind man who used to give a gum to people with bad breath say me what a girl should think if you offer her that gum? That her breath is bad? or what?


Posted by: Spakoyna

Ellen! You need to meet a nice guy! You do come across to me as having been screwed a few times and having a bitter attitude. Sorry you have had such bad experiences if what I say is true.


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
Ellen! You need to meet a nice guy! You do come across to me as having been screwed a few times and having a bitter attitude. Sorry you have had such bad experiences if what I say is true.


Ok I would follow your advice if you tell me also what should I do with that "bad" guy who I met 20 years ago and who is still my husband

My advice to you is IF I came across you in some threads then you better answer me and in that topic where my opinion was different to yours one. And better you would post your opinion on that TOPIC but not fall into psyhoanalisys of my lovely persone. Trust me each such your attempt to play a role of specialist in psyhoanalys would fail becaus you don't know even one thing about me.

Posting your guessings WHY my opinion was different to your views and doing that in threads which have nothing to do with topic I crossed you times ago in such mannera like you did would cause only one more "cross."


Posted by: Ellen

Now return on topic

Should black list for males exist and what criteria for postig males there you see like "decent" ones fpr posting and what "prooves" admins of such boards have to get and from who for not to be blamed in having "hiding agenda" ?

Also I would want to know how should I react and WHAT should I think if I met some nice guy and he decides to offere me a stick of gum


Posted by: mistermopar

Hey Ellen....would youy like a stick of gum????


Randy


Posted by: mistermopar

Ellen you should say yes..thank you.

It dose not have to mean that the person has bad breath if they are offered gum.Gum is offered in North America offten to other people to be polite.It dose not mean that the prson has bad breath.

But I have noticed that people in the FSU seem to have more bad breath than people in North America.....


Randy


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermopar
Hey Ellen....would youy like a stick of gum????


Randy


You see I was raised in soviet times where ther was no gum at all till 80s. I told Billy "my story" why I personally just CAN"T take gum from foreigners , hope he got what I meant . I told him it in prvate because I was not sure that you foreigners would get too many from my story but it would be only a reason for your laugh ( not kind one) So no stories for you here just an answer - "NO"

And is ANYBODY going to answer to my question - what should I think when you offer me that gum? Does my bad Russian breath reach your gentle foreigner noses even through internet?


Posted by: mistermopar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
You see I was raised in soviet times where ther was no gum at all till 80s. I told Billy "my story" why I personally just CAN"T take gum from foreigners , hope he got what I meant . I told them it in prvate because I was not sure that you foreigners would get too many from my story but ot would be only a reason for your laugh ( not kind one) So no stories for you here just an answer - "NO"

And is ANYBODY going to answer at my question - what should I think when you offer me that gum? Does my bad Russian breath reach your gentle foreigmer oses even through internet?


Ellen,there is nothing wrong with offering someone gum,it dose not mean they have bad breath.
Many people chew gum for the satisfaction of just chewing it.
Many people offer me gum and I do not have bad breath.
I offer it to many people and they do not have bad breath.

Maybe Russian women are parinoid about their breath from the way you speak.

Randy


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermopar
Ellen you should say yes..thank you.

It dose not have to mean that the person has bad breath if they are offered gum.Gum is offered in North America offten to other people to be polite.It dose not mean that the prson has bad breath.
But I have noticed that people in the FSU seem to have more bad breath than people in North America.....

Randy


To be polite? Odd ... habbit to offer gum which is sold at any corner, cheap, and wich really could be use to refresh a breath.
Can you clarify me what does "to be polite" mean in that case because I have a strong suspison that you just try to make a "good face in bad game" and that gum issue is really about bad breth or about " you poor things have not it here so take it and enoy with archivment of civlisation" ( like it was in Billy's case)


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermopar
Ellen,there is nothing wrong with offering someone gum,it dose not mean they have bad breath.
Many people chew gum for the satisfaction of just chewing it.
Many people offer me gum and I do not have bad breath.
I offer it to many people and they do not have bad breath.

Maybe Russian women are parinoid about their breath from the way you speak.

Randy

You see it was not I who mentioned that offereing a gum because of bad breath. I just asked a question because I don't get a pont of such offering and I really can't recall such habbit here to offer a gum to people ( especially if we are talking about "dates" )

PS BTW I was taught by my soviet teachers that "shewing" was bad habbit as well.

PSS As for about beeing paranoid then you see it's hard to not thinking about what you REALLY hide behind your smiles when you offer that gum if YOU so like to discuss bad teeth of Russians and their bad breath when you are "alone" in your foreigner company.
Reading such forums gave me an idea that I better should not smile at all in front of foregners to prevent them latter to discuss a work of my dantists instead of what what I have said to them.


Posted by: ham

Quote:
Should black list for males exist and what criteria for postig males there you see like "decent" ones fpr posting and what "prooves" admins of such boards have to get and from who for not to be blamed in having "hiding agenda" ?

Also I would want to know how should I react and WHAT should I think if I met some nice guy and he decides to offere me a stick of gum



Offering chewing-gum?
How dense can we get here?
It depends...it may be a way to chat women up...cheesy but it happens.
I have never seen offering gum to soothe bad breath BESIDES in a movie.
Many people (my father used to ) are just addicted to chewing gums; i don't like it, so i just say no when i'm offered.

A blacklist (however skeptical i am about the concept ) ought to be impartial. No "Jack, Jim and Dan" games if you catch my drift, and blacklisting being used as a THREAT against people dissenting on other grounds.

As well, you ought to list most men, because when men chat women up, sex is DEFINITELY an option.
A friend once said i should go and talk to woman X, but i didn't because i knew i hadn't the looks she liked...and who was believing this story i'd chat her up to discuss particle physics or Descartes' claim whether the pineal gland truly is where res cogitans and res extensa meet...
As true as this is, there is no alternative...unless you meet a woman you are NOT interested in as potential relationship/sex material, only because both of you love Descartes...


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
Offering chewing-gum?

A blacklist (however skeptical i am about the concept ) ought to be impartial. No "Jack, Jim and Dan" games if you catch my drift, and blacklisting being used as a THREAT against people dissenting on other grounds.
.


"Jack, Jim and Dan" games are exactly Jack Jim and Dan games - games among competotirs who gain money being involved in dating process. That' different to antidate forum for sure.
PS I meet foreigner men exactly for purpose to discuss Descartes


Posted by: ham

Quote:
"Jack, Jim and Dan" games are exactly Jack Jim and Dan games - games among competotirs who gain money being involved in dating process.


Try this: they are idiots into selling snake oil?
Oh...and that is not copyrighted, otherwise they would surely represent good candidates for holding a patent.

Quote:
PS I meet foreigner men exactly for purpose to discuss Descartes


so do you think res cogitans and res extensa truly meet in the pineal gland?


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
Try this: they are idiots into selling snake oil?
so do you think res cogitans and res extensa truly meet in the pineal gland?


I think "nothing" because I could not traslate 90% of your question

As for Jack then I(we) met him too I recall he became so "exited" with disscussion with Kvina over agency busness that I thought we would be "banned" from restaurant because of him being so laud No claims though , he was funny ( but I do't agree with many of his ideas. To other hand I undertand that it's just business and hardly it could last too long if things were carried in "proper" from my viewpoint way)


Posted by: Turboguy

Don't feel bad Ellen. I couldn't translate it either.

As far as the gum thing, I have never seen anyone offer gum because they thought someone had bad breath. Here it is polite if we are going to eat to offer to another to eat with us. If we are going to have a cup off coffee it is polite to offer coffee to the other. If we are going to eat candy, to offer some to the other person. If we are going to chew a stick of gum, to offer some to the other person. He it would be considered rude to not do that.

As far as a black list. I think if there were not good guys listed as being bad guys it is a good thing. I would rather see a bad guy not listed because there was not enough proof than to have a good guy listed who should not be there.

As far as who should be listed. Sex tourists but how do you tell? Just because a man visits a woman and they have sex and he does not marry her does not mean he is a sex tourist. Men who scam and abuse women, yes. Men who write and never meet? No, I have written many women that I never met. It is how I decide who to meet. Men who lie and send photos 20 years old, Yes, if it is important lies particularly. Men who offer a peice of gum to a woman, no, of course not.

I too have met Jack. I can picture what you descible and have no doubts about what you say. Jack can get emotional and he is far from a quiet mousy person. He is a good person though and things become very personal for him.


Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
Now return on topic

Should black list for males exist and what criteria for postig males there you see like "decent" ones fpr posting and what "prooves" admins of such boards have to get and from who for not to be blamed in having "hiding agenda" ?

Also I would want to know how should I react and WHAT should I think if I met some nice guy and he decides to offere me a stick of gum


Wow Ellen.... your phrases meander all over the place but convey little meaning... much like a politician.... except this post... to the point and you can actually figure out what you are saying... so, I will answer...

Yes, black lists for males should exist. It is only 'fair' to have some kind of warning system to the ladies. Should there be 'proof'? Yes, some kind of proof... maybe have a board of mods discuss any new posting and say if it should go on or not.. Let's say a guy come over with good intentions... things become sexual between the two.. and something happens before he leaves that shows a side of the woman he can not tolerate... so he says we are not for each other.... now, she would turn around and put him on the black list as a sex tourist even though he was not... is this fair?

And what should you think if offered a stick of gum????? That the person was polite. Some people who chew gum have a big pack... they are brought up to 'share'... so if THEY want a stick of gum they pull out thier pack AND to be polite offer a stick to the other or others in their group... it has NOTHING to do with YOUR breath... just that he is POLITE... if you want one, then say yes... if not, the politely say no thanks... or even just no..


Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
To be polite? Odd ... habbit to offer gum which is sold at any corner, cheap, and wich really could be use to refresh a breath.
Can you clarify me what does "to be polite" mean in that case because I have a strong suspison that you just try to make a "good face in bad game" and that gum issue is really about bad breth or about " you poor things have not it here so take it and enoy with archivment of civlisation" ( like it was in Billy's case)


My wife and I were in the Red Square. We were going in one place and The guard(soldier) was standing their like a statue. I had some altoid mints. I had them out and gave my wife some and ate some myself. I offered some to the gaurd...holding the box out to him. He stood their just eyeing me. I jestured again and he took some!!! He almost cracked a smile but didn't. I could see appreciation in his eyes. He then returned to being a statue.I thought about it later and felt some regret. I was concerned I might have possibly gotten him in trouble.

Ellen, If this guy thought like you I would be He would have started and probably called in . Luckily he did not. It is most Americans hospitanya (upbringing) to offer small things such as gum,candy,(long ago cigarettes),etc. to those around if he was eating(or smoking) to be polite.

As to your other reply to my other post


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
Wow Ellen.... your phrases meander all over the place but convey little meaning... much like a politician.... except this post... to the point and you can actually figure out what you are saying... so, I will answer...

What's that? Some sort of western compliment or what??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
Yes, black lists for males should exist. It is only 'fair' to have some kind of warning system to the ladies. Should there be 'proof'? Yes, some kind of proof... maybe have a board of mods discuss any new posting and say if it should go on or not.. Let's say a guy come over with good intentions... things become sexual between the two.. and something happens before he leaves that shows a side of the woman he can not tolerate... so he says we are not for each other.... now, she would turn around and put him on the black list as a sex tourist even though he was not... is this fair?

I do guess there sould be "some" proof. I asked what did you see like that "proof" which would be enough to stop that accusations which are spreading by sombodies ( who can't read Russian too well at all )
Of course there is a discussion of each case, not only among mods, FAR from any "claim" is listed at a wall of shame, there is a demand to girls to give letters-photos like "a proof"
But it seems not enough. Well may it's so. But I don't know what else could be done because hiring FSB agents for investigation would be too much for mods of antidate.
So what are your males ideas about what would be enough for you like a proof of crime? ( in a case of sex - How many time should that "I can't tolerate that woman I had sex with" happen before women would get a right to think that a man is just that very sex tourists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
And what should you think if offered a stick of gum????? That the person was polite. Some people who chew gum have a big pack... they are brought up to 'share'... so if THEY want a stick of gum they pull out thier pack AND to be polite offer a stick to the other or others in their group... it has NOTHING to do with YOUR breath... just that he is POLITE... if you want one, then say yes... if not, the politely say no thanks... or even just no..


I was speaking not about "sharing" the pack of gum with others. It was NOT a case which we were discussing. What I was speaking about was when a guy wished to present those gum like some kind of souvenirs (one case - Bill's case) and when that guy just offered a gum - "just so" ( not intending to shew it right now by himself so it didn't look like "sharing" ) ( second case - theoretical one - which poped in my mind after reading what Cheburashka posted)

You may have your own idea what others should think ( now I know what it is) . I in my turn just inform you what I would do - I'm polite persone and would say "thank" But I can't give a guarantee that a look at my face wouldn't tell "what an idiot" , because nobody here offers that gum like a "present" . You could have the same effect if you decided for example to present that fine soft toilet paper you are so proud about.

Ps that's only my opinion about a gum like a "gift" (I'm about gifts to "strangers at a street") Others with more opened minds than my one may be glad to get that gum. Good luck for them to get few sticks from some foreiger tourist. Let it make them happy.


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
Don't feel bad Ellen. I couldn't translate it either.
As far as the gum thing, I have never seen anyone offer gum because they thought someone had bad breath. Here it is polite if we are going to eat to offer to another to eat with us. If we are going to have a cup off coffee it is polite to offer coffee to the other. If we are going to eat candy, to offer some to the other person. If we are going to chew a stick of gum, to offer some to the other person. He it would be considered rude to not do that.
.

Again it was not MY idea about a gum and bad breath It was said by one of you. Also belive me or not but I can't see how it could be a polite to meet people you see for the first time , say them "Hi My name is Ellen Here is a gum for you. Enjoy" " For me it's odd behaviour

PS Your opinion Turbo about gum issue indicates that you have not read what Billy wrote in his trip report too.


Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
But I can't give a guarantee that a look at my face wouldn't tell "what an idiot" , because nobody here offers that gum like a "present" . You could have the same effect if you decided for example to present that fine soft toilet paper you are so proud about.

Ps that's only my opinion about a gum like a "gift" (I'm about gifts to "strangers at a street") Others with more opened minds than my one may be glad to get that gum. Good luck for them to get few sticks.


I brought quite a few boxes of mints as gifts. The thought never crossed my mind they would be an impolite gift. They were well received by all I presented them to(interpretors,our guides,etc.)


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
I brought quite a few boxes of mints as gifts. The thought never crossed my mind they would be an impolite gift. They were well received by all I presented them to(interpretors,our guides,etc.)

You are never too old to learn ( That your gum was "well recived" is just a proof that Russians could be polite too )

Really are you not kidding me and you do give such present to people inside your country as well? I am about PRESENTS - souvenirs - gifts -etc ( not "sharing" cases) And I am asking exactly about GUM but not about other small gifts.


Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
You are never too old to learn ( That your gum was "well recived" is just a proof that Russians could be polite too )

Really are you not kidding me and you do give such present to people inside your country as well? I am about PRESENTS - souvenirs - gifts -etc ( not "sharing" cases) And I am asking exactly about GUM but not about other small gifts.


I cannot say I have ever given gum as a gift. Most guys try to bring small gifts which are not available in Russia. Perhaps the guy thought this was the case with the gum. I did not see the mints I brought anywhere. I do believe they were genuinely well received(saw them later eating them and offering them to friends to try!)

PS mints would be more of a slam on bad breath than gum!


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
I cannot say I have ever given gum as a gift.

How about mints? ( like a gft INSIDE your own country)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
Most guys try to bring small gifts which are not available in Russia. Perhaps the guy thought this was the case with the gum.

well I said the same - his advice looked like as he was speaking about aborigens from Tumba-umba island.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
I did not see the mints I brought anywhere. I do believe they were genuinely well received(saw them later eating them and offering them to friends to try!)
PS mints would be more of a slam on bad breath than gum!


Of course they ate them What else they should do with them,? not throw into trash for sure. Anyway believe what you wish in, I post my ideas about gum issue and how your generosity and kindness ( mind you I believe Bill really meant nothing bad) could look like because of your arrogance .


Posted by: ham

Quote:
well I said the same - his advice looked like as he was speaking about aborigens from Tumba-umba island.


perhaps 20 years ago...not any recently.

Quote:
I think "nothing" because I could not traslate 90% of your question


That is what i said: men don't chat women up to discuss Descartes

Quote:
So what are your males ideas about what would be enough for you like a proof of crime? ( in a case of sex - How many time should that "I can't tolerate that woman I had sex with" happen before women would get a right to think that a man is just that very sex tourists?


hmm
Keeping one's leg close is a good start.
It takes two to play the beast with two backs, right?


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
perhaps 20 years ago...not any recently.

Even 20 years ago Russia without that gum of yours was not Tumbu-umba island like that sounds in Bills report ( and in your this post as well)
And neither 20 years ago nor now your priceless gum was a "treasure" to be a "gift"
Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
That is what i said: men don't chat women up to discuss Descartes

I got nothing again ( that time not because of absent of words in my vocabulary like it was first time. But never mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
hmm
Keeping one's leg close is a good start.
It takes two to play the beast with two backs, right?


Yes it's a good start But how about continue? Should she keep them close till she got a sertifiate of marriage in her hands?

Also my question was not only about sex tourists ( BTW do you refuse to admit there IS such event in pricipal matter or what? )

There are enough other "crimes" which could be done by males except making trips and having sex time after time each time with new woma(e)n during N years in a row without any other results in developing relationship.


Posted by: ham

Quote:
I got nothing again ( that time not because of absent of words in my vocabulary like it was first time. But never mind.


Scotty, beam me up

Quote:
Even 20 years ago Russia without that gum of yours was not Tumbu-umba island like that sounds in Bills report ( and in your this post as well)
And neither 20 years ago nor now your priceless gum was a "treasure" to be a "gift"


Eh?
a friend of mine collected empty beer bottles; another empty soda cans...ah, those cavemen.
A gift hasn't necessarily to be a treasure.

Quote:
Also my question was not only about sex tourists ( BTW do you refuse to admit there IS such event in pricipal matter or what? )


I commented on this many times.
It exists, but i find it highly unprofitable to travel 5-15000 km to have sex a few times.

Quote:
There are enough other "crimes" which could be done by males except making trips and having sex time after time each time with new woma(e)n during N years in a row without any other results in developing relationship.


hahaha!
is it human nature you endeavour to change or what?
Come on...how many domestic Oleg and Igor sleep around and how many Sveta and Liuba sleep with them...without any intention of forming a lasting bond to start with?


Posted by: Jerico

Quote:
say them "Hi My name is Ellen Here is a gum for you. Enjoy" " For me it's odd behaviour


Well Usually when I get out the gum or listerine strips for myself I ask whomever is with me if they want one. It is rude not to ask them.
I would never bring gum and give it to a Russian girl thinking she has never had such a gift, hehhe

Quote:
There are enough other "crimes" which could be done by males except making trips and having sex time after time each time with new woma(e)n during N years in a row without any other results in developing relationship.

Well are these so called sex tourist having sex with themselves?
Seems to me there must be consenting women taking part in this also.
The women do not have to give a man sex but if they do they must like the guy a little bit or maybe it is a lie on thier part also.
I would not want to sleep with a woman in Russia that felt she had to give me sex in order to keep me interested in her. This is crazy.
Jerry


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
Eh?
a friend of mine collected empty beer bottles; another empty soda cans...ah, those cavemen.
A gift hasn't necessarily to be a treasure.

You are speaking about absolutely another case. Presenting a gift you should be sure that it either has a great value to this particular person even if it had no "value" for others ( you can't claim that you can present empty soda cans to everybody and expect people to be greatful for such a gift can you? As well as you can't really think that anybody would collect gums here as it;'s exactly "collectining" which adds great value to common things) Or your gift should hae a value itself ( the best indicator of that value is a fact that thing could be seen like a "gift" in your own country. I can't believe that gum could be a gift ( exactly gift but not a thing for sharing) in your own country.

Anyway I tell you my own opinion about gum Others may be exited with such a gift. Aborigens was existed with glass stuff too after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
I commented on this many times.
It exists, but i find it highly unprofitable to travel 5-15000 km to have sex a few times.

So you do admit it EXISTs Go futher Should girls be aware about those who used to enjoy ( for whatever reason) with such uprofitable business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
hahaha!
is it human nature you endeavour to change or what?
Come on...how many domestic Oleg and Igor sleep around and how many Sveta and Liuba sleep with them...without any intention of forming a lasting bond to start with?


From what I saw here those Olegs and Igors are not listed themselves at marriage market. And if they post their profiles at dating sites they in majority cases are not shy to say stright "I';m seaking for sex without any obligations" Of course they could try to lure women into bed promicing to marry but that's another case to males who use MARRIAGE sites and agencies for meeting women for only sex.


Posted by: Turboguy

I think sex tourists may be more common among Europeans than Americans. For an American I can't think of any way to spend more money for less sex than going to Russia.

I think sometimes the women from A-D create the wrong impression of what your site is about.

On a forum not related to relationships someone asked this morning about where there were good forums for him to go and also good ones for his wife. I gave him the URL for this site and a few other forums.

I told him of the two for women I was aware of RussianWomanAbroad and A-D. Unfortuanately my description of A-D was that it was a good place if he wanted to turn her into a man-hater and that it was the equivelent of the Klu Klux Klan for Russian women. I wish I could have better feelings about your site.


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerico

Well are these so called sex tourist having sex with themselves?
Seems to me there must be consenting women taking part in this also.
The women do not have to give a man sex but if they do they must like the guy a little bit or maybe it is a lie on thier part also.


You missed a point Women I'm speaking about complian not about being used because they had sex They complain about that a boy who they thought had seriouse intention to find a wife "suddenly" disappeares without any reason just for to pop up in other Russian/Ukrainian town in a company with one more new woman. Of course it could be just because he didn't click with that particlar woman But if that click does not happen at N trip too then.... Something is rotten in the Kingdom of Denmark.. already

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerico
I would not want to sleep with a woman in Russia that felt she had to give me sex in order to keep me interested in her. This is crazy.
Jerry

You for sure would not Who would? But who do know for sure what was that sex aout?
But a reality of dating through internet is that there are enough males who claim that they would move on if they didn;t get sex to 3d date ( or at least to the end of first trip). Such ideas are rather common among males who have to make long distance trips and women are aware about those ideas very well. So women are forsed to make a dissision too fast or they have to face a posabiity a man would not make second trip at all.


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
I think sometimes the women from A-D create the wrong impression of what your site is about.
I told him of the two for women I was aware of RussianWomanAbroad and A-D. Unfortuanately my description of A-D was that it was a good place if he wanted to turn her into a man-hater and that it was the equivelent of the Klu Klux Klan for Russian women. I wish I could have better feelings about your site.


yeah Indeed you WERE aware about the site you could not read ( and didn;t bother yourself to visit even English part of it)

That EXACTLY because you form your personal opinon about the board based NOT at information you have read there but on your PERSONAL attitude to "some" girls ( which just CAN"T be objective thing in principal matter) I ask you not to post your opinion on other open borads where people could make wrong conclusions about exactly the board/site as they don;t know your "issue" with particular girls.

And IF you wish to have better feeling about our site then learn at last Russian and READ the site !!

Something "wrong" with such my request?

Ps If I followed your logic and acted the same way you used to do I could describe "some" boards (you think about like decent places) like just places of sex tourists, Rusophobes, women haters and just mental ill persones because of my personal attitude to some males from there. And I even could name particular names not bothering myself with explanations and proofs WHY I think so about those males and is it true or not What for if I just could make my statement like "a matter of fact" .( like you do that)


Posted by: Jerico

Well unfortunatley the whole process kind of moves fast because most people just cant stay in Russia more than a few weeks so it can be a problem.

There are some men that do complain about not getting any sex but usually they are married men ,Hehhe . I am joking

Well I have to work so this is short.

I understand what you mean though Ellen. Your logic on this sounds reasonable.
Jerry


Posted by: ham

Quote:
I can't belive that gum could be a gift ( exactly gift but not a thing for sharing) in your own country.

Anyway I tell you my own opinion about gum Others may be exited with such a gift. Aborigens was existed with glass staff tool after all.


i don't understand what the fuss is about.
A friend of mine goes crazy for fennel seeds; i find them disgusting.
Either i accept them from him (for whatever reason ) and dispose of them, or better i turn the offer down.
You're reacting like an Hitchcock charachter who would go on a murderous rampage every time he saw lillas or found himself behind a locked door.
There are people who make a great deal of something, while you couldn't care less; so be it.
Maybe that man thought his chewing gum was a collector's item.

Quote:
From what I saw here those Olegs and Igors are not listed themselves at marriage market. And if they post their profiles at dating sites they in majority cases are not shy to say stright "I';m seaking for sex without any obligations" Of course they could try to lure women into bed promicing to marry but that's another case to males who use MARRIAGE sites and agencies for meeting women for only sex.


so your ethics is highly situational and a deceitful act coming from Barney is awful only because he's listed on a website, while it is fine with Igor because he isn't?

Quote:
So you do admit it EXIST Go futher Should girls be aware about those who used to ejoy ( for whatever reason) with such uprofitable business?


if you were 110% accurate, perhaps it would be good, but i suspect someone is pèulling the strings.

Quote:
But a reality of dating through internet is that there are enough males who claim that they would move on if they didn;t get sex to 3d date ( or at least to the end of first trip). Such ideas are rather common among males who have to make long distance trips and women are aware about those ideas very well. So women are forsed to make a dissision too fast or they have to face a posabiity a man would not make second trip at all.


so she answer an ad offering a job. she understands she's expected to lay on her back for the boss to keep the job, but she needs the money and after all she can't think of a better choice right there. Would you blacklist the boss? How many secretaries are competing to get in bed with him already? What are you discussing here? Universal fairness? The world isn't fair.

The N dates rule means
Quote:
Women who don't like sex--- at least, not with you-- and won't admit it. They have a hundred reasons, but it all boils down to this: They have decided that they aren't attracted to you don't want to form a close relationship with you. And they're LYING about it. This damages your emotional integrity and wastes your time. Apply the three-date rule as a guideline.


I can't deny there are women out there to make a fool of men, much like there are womanizers.


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
i don't understand what the fuss is about.
...

A fuss is about Bill's advice he wrote in his trip report to bring more gum with you because Russian seemed to appresiate it very much It was one ( among others) things which Russian girls who read his trip report saw like not right advice made in wrong manera which indicated his wrong attitute to Russians ( in general) Here I try to explain you that if you present thing which is too "small" for gifts in your own country then your generosity could be taken wrong in Russia.
I'm not going to murder anybody for such a gift. I told I would say "thank" an think "what a fool" Not big deal actully. It's up to you what to do with my such opinion ( at least it was not I who brought this subject to a discussion)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
so your ethics is highly situational and a deceitful act coming from Barney is awful only because he's listed on a website, while it is fine with Igor because he isn't?

It's all OK with my ethic as I would never see those Olegs and Igors like a matherial for a husband knowing for sure what they are about in dating.In a case with MARRIAGE dating sites/agencies guys get some priore credit because they are supposed to have seriouse intentions. And in this case to deal with their lie is some ore hard then if it was no "promices" from the begining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
if you were 110% accurate, perhaps it would be good, but i suspect someone is pèulling the strings.

It's impossible to be 110% accurate in this business because like I said to hire FSB agent for investigation would be impossible So I asked about YOUR ideas what proofe would be enough to prevent you to have those "suspesions about strings" you are talikng and which I HONESTLY have no idea about.
Also would not mind to enlight me who exactly could win benefits and what could they be because of posting sombody at black lists at antidate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
so she answer an ad offering a job. she understands she's expected to lay on her back for the boss to keep the job, but she needs the money and after all she can't think of a better choice right there. Would you blacklist the boss? How many secretaries are competing to get in bed with him already? What are you discussing here? Universal fairness? The world isn't fair.

I told you that I's discussing here cases when males dissapeared without reason just to pop up later in another town. I was discussing case of women who had sex not because they wished to gain some benifits but because they trusted that man and thought he had seriouse intentons You sound like there could not be such women in this business in principle matter and all sex tourists are deling here ONLY with those "secretutes" of yours ( i don't deny an exitance of such secretutes but there ARE anoter type of women as well I'm speaking about THEM)


Ok enough for today Good night for everybody.


Posted by: Jerico

Quote:
You sound like there could not be such women in this business in principle matter and all sex tourists are deling here ONLY with those "secretutes" of yours ( i don't deny an exitance of such secretutes but there ARE anoter type of women as well I'm speaking about THEM)


That other type of woman you speak about is exactly what we also want.
I personally did not go to Moscow looking for sex.
As you know i cannot speak for every guy who trys this type of relationship.Sure there are bad men just as there are bad women who give this type of relationship a bad name.
I wanted a GOOD wife and thought my chances were better in Russia for this.
For the record when I visited my wife we never had any relations.
Jerry


Posted by: Turboguy

Often men do not think a woman is right for them but do not wish to hurt the woman's feelings. I spent 3 days with a women I had written for a year and really liked before I met her. Shortly after I arrived she asked me what I like to drink. I told her coke, coffee and juice. I asked what she liked to drink and she said beer, wine and champagne. The next day she drank the biggest part of 5 bottles of champagne and three beers and passed out spilling the last beer on me. I wrote her a few letters after I returned but never said I don't want to see you again because you are an alcholic. I just wrote less and less and in a few months stopped.

I have read some of the English parts of the site Ellen. It was interesting. I am not saying I can know all about the site or what goes on there. When I mentioned it today it was for someone looking for a forum for his wife. I don't think I would have been doing either a favor by suggesting she might love A-D.

Personally it was not important to me to have sex on the 5th day or first trip but if each night all you get is a kiss on the cheek I think the chemistry is not there. My fiancee is my second from Russia. I did not have sex with either on the first trip but there was enough romance that I knew the chemistry was there.


Posted by: ham

Quote:
In a case with MARRIAGE dating sites/agencies guys get some priore credit because they are supposed to have seriouse intentions. And in this case to deal with their lie is some ore hard then if it was no "promices" from the begining.


very thin argument.
you do portray your fellow women as if they were savages fooled by a piece of glass.
Anyone who believes whatever is said on the internet literally is game.
Most vocal people over the internet about morals and values are usually sociopaths and worse, and i have proof about many.

Quote:
YOUR ideas what proofe would be enough to prevent you to have those "suspesions about strings" you are talikng and which I HONESTLY have no idea about.


i don't believe in the blacklist concept to start with. i believe in generalities.

Quote:
Also would not mind to enlight me who exactly could win benefits and what could they be because of posting sombody at black lists at antidate?


I have seen often the name of a client who disagreed with an agency owner dragged into the mud with his personal details exposed and him accused of various crimes, EG theft or misbehaviour, EG being a sex tourist/porn addict whatever. Some might not care, but most are afraid of the negative image resulting from the attack, thus they censor themselves into silence.
Is this excessive? Think Jack, Jim & Dan games.

Quote:
I told you that I's discussing here cases when males dissapeared without reason just to pop up later in another town. I was discussing case of women who had sex not because they wished to gain some benifits but because they trusted that man and thought he had seriouse intentons You sound like there could not be such women in this business in principle matter and all sex tourists are deling here ONLY with those "secretutes" of yours ( i don't deny an exitance of such secretutes but there ARE anoter type of women as well I'm speaking about THEM)


I answered already. It escapes me what a "secretute" might be, but i think you are talking about fairness here. Much as i disagree, the world is unfair. People with an advantage are very likely to exploit it. A man and his passport or money; a woman and her beauty or youth.
Someone castigated me elsewhere because i said: trust nobody.
We can debate until the moon turns blue, but in the end, one (male or female) has only a choice: trust or distrust.
I go with the parsimony principle; i can't properly analyze all if's & but's ( i have no way of knowing ), so i must go with the more likely among the most probable.
A request for money is a scam for me; perhaps it's a true cinderella who has none to turn to in order to save her honor.
A man who wants sex the third time he meets a woman is suspicious ( i believe in the N dates rule, however i don't know whether 3 is right ).
A woman who has allowed a man to wine, dine & escort her and spend money on her YET at the eighteenth date isn't ready for (at least some ) intimacy is suspicious.
And i have been there; i have dated, wined&dined women for ages without any sexual reward and in the end i've learnt they were interested in me as a shoulder to cry upon, a meal ticket, a driver or whatever, but not as a person: bad deal.


Posted by: Jerico

Quote:
And i have been there; i have dated, wined&dined women for ages without any sexual reward and in the end i've learnt they were interested in me as a shoulder to cry upon, a meal ticket, a driver or whatever, but not as a person: bad deal.

Dam Ham that just sucks anyway you show it.
I have been fortunate to not experience this. Not that I am great or something but i was with the same woman for 13 years before I met my now wife.

Quote:
A woman who has allowed a man to wine, dine & escort her and spend money on her YET at the eighteenth date isn't ready for (at least some ) intimacy is suspicious


I 100 percent agree with you on this one. There is shy and there is just not interested in anything but the money.
Jerry


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
Often men do not think a woman is right for them but do not wish to hurt the woman's feelings. I spent 3 days with a women I had written for a year and really liked before I met her. Shortly after I arrived she asked me what I like to drink. I told her coke, coffee and juice. I asked what she liked to drink and she said beer, wine and champagne. The next day she drank the biggest part of 5 bottles of champagne and three beers and passed out spilling the last beer on me. I wrote her a few letters after I returned but never said I don't want to see you again because you are an alcholic. I just wrote less and less and in a few months stopped.

If your post was like an answer to my one about disappeared males and you knowing that she didn't siut your expectation for wife had sex with her anyway then your case could fall into cathegory I was speaking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
I have read some of the English parts of the site Ellen. It was interesting. I am not saying I can know all about the site or what goes on there. When I mentioned it today it was for someone looking for a forum for his wife. I don't think I would have been doing either a favor by suggesting she might love A-D.

I'm tired Turbo to explain you time after time after one more your confession that you have not read AD forum that in your case you just have not a right to post your opinion about forum ( wich you continue to do time after time) Also nobody ask youa favour to suggest that somebody might love it. You are asked not to spread negative about things you have not idea about. That's all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy
Personally it was not important to me to have sex on the 5th day or first trip but if each night all you get is a kiss on the cheek I think the chemistry is not there. My fiancee is my second from Russia. I did not have sex with either on the first trip but there was enough romance that I knew the chemistry was there.

no comments (I personaly don't like to discuss personal experinece of males with N Russian fiances. That entertaiment is for folks from "some" decent males' board ) )


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
very thin argument.
you do portray your fellow women as if they were savages fooled by a piece of glass.
Anyone who believes whatever is said on the internet literally is game.
Most vocal people over the internet about morals and values are usually sociopaths and worse, and i have proof about many.


I didn't speak about cases when women fell in love because they have read something in interent First of all I was speaking that if male posted his profile in no other place but MARRIAGE agency then dealing with him is some another case than dealing with male who didn't portrate his intention in such way. ( that's about your reffereing to Olegs and Igors - their beaviour is not justified by me, it's just knowing that they are not going to marry "in pricipal matter" I would not waste my time on them)

Secondary I was speaking about cases when there were more than just "letters" and "words" in interent ( sometimes that "more" was started process of K1 after which male dissapered)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
i don't believe in the blacklist concept to start with. i believe in generalities.

And how it ( generalities) should look like? And who should make those generalities? And what should be a "base" for those generalities?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
I have seen often the name of a client who disagreed with an agency owner dragged into the mud with his personal details exposed and him accused of various crimes, EG theft or misbehaviour, EG being a sex tourist/porn addict whatever. Some might not care, but most are afraid of the negative image resulting from the attack, thus they censor themselves into silence.
Is this excessive? Think Jack, Jim & Dan games.

I told you I saw Jack, Jim& Dan game like another case to antidate forum because those Jack,Jim&Dan made money on those clients They are not interested in negative information about their business so it's in their interest to dragg into the mud such "ungreatful" clients ON BOARDS WHICH OTHER CLIENTS READ.( it's not antidate for sure) I see nothing of benefits for antidate to dragg the mud for purpose on somebody I asked you to enlight me if you know where those benefits could be gained I wish to know where I lost an opportunity to make money

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
I answered already. It escapes me what a "secretute" might be, but i think you are talking about fairness here.

Fair or not but I was talking about interest of women ( honest women who DO exist in this business and who DO suffer because of actions of sex tourists- key board romeos-still married- etc as well as because of actions of dishonest women who managed to gain bad reputation to the whole country )

secretute-ka (ñåêðåòóòêà) - a mix from two words secretarity(ñåêðåòàðøà)+prostitute(ïðîñòèòóòêà) We used this word for describing that occupation you were speaking about. BTW speakng about those bosses and black list for them I think that if I was looking for a positon of secretarity then a black list of bosses who see that occupation like only secretute would be very useful for me. How it could be fair to list such boss if secretute herself didn't mind to have a sex with him would be "out" of my interest because I'm going to deal with boss and it's his beavior interesting for me. ( that does not meant at all that I justify behaviour of secretute)


PS I personaly "trust no one" So I know for sure that dating through interenet would be impossible for me


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen

PS I personaly "trust no one" So I know for sure that dating through interenet would be impossible for me


Not even your husband Ellen?


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
Not even your husband Ellen?

Firstly I was speaking "theoretically" ( that's why I try my best in English grammar putting those WOULD whenever I can)

As for trust to my husband than I was speaking about dating through internet.( I met him not in such "odd" way)

Also I was young, silly and naive when I trusted him to such a degree that I decided to marry him I became more wise since those times and more cynical ( if you wish) in dealing with males
As for exactly husband then now I just know with 99,9% asurance where he lies and where he is honest, what he can do and what he can't So it's another "trust" now, ( that one which is based on accepption of his bad/good sides I know about because of my personal long time experience in dealing with him) It's different to what I meant speaking ( theoretically) about "dating" . That trust is based on credit I'd give to men who I actually don't know.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
Also I was young, silly and naive when I trusted him to such a degree that I decided to marry him I became more wise since those times and more cynical ( if you wish) in dealing with males

Is this a problem exclusively with males or with people generally? Perhaps the types of problems you have with males and with females are different?

I wonder how your husband feels about his side of the relationship? it would be interesting to hear his side. It has been mentioned to me often that Russian women have a tendency to not mention things to their male partners that they "don't need to know".


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
As for exactly husband then now I just know with 99,9% asurance where he lies and where he is honest, what he can do and what he can't So it's another "trust" now, ( that one which is based on accepption of his bad/good sides I know about because of my personal long time experience in dealing with him) It's different to what I meant speaking ( theoretically) about "dating" . That trust is based on credit I'd give to men who I actually don't know.


I think that is a healthy position for both sides. The internet dating and also for your marriage.


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
Is this a problem exclusively with males or with people generally? Perhaps the types of problems you have with males and with females are different?
I wonder how your husband feels about his side of the relationship? it would be interesting to hear his side. It has been mentioned to me often that Russian women have a tendency to not mention things to their male partners that they "don't need to know".



Why is it "problem'? It's just life. People ( of both genders) are not saint, so there would be more bad experience with ages, youth is more naive ( and it "must" be naive) , older ages are more cynical ( even if people try to hide that under a shadow of "naive