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Khashyar SCAM thread-- Comments, Questions, Thoughts...
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Posted by: Khashyar

This thread is for comments about the "Khashyar is scammed! (Khashyar's pre-Lena relationship with Russian woman)" thread, which can be found here:

http://russianmeetingplace.com/foru...ead.php?t=13079

Feel free to post your thoughts, questions and comments.

Khashyar

P.S.: **I want to emphasize that I believe that the vast majority of Russian women communicating with Western men are sincere in their intentions, and that my experience with Olga represents a minority of women (or people pretending to be women).

Posted by: I/O

Khashyar Gaaaawwwwwwdd mate...!!! You were greener than I was when you started.

Ok lets get down to some of this analysis stuff, Pontification, 20/20 hignsight, whatever you like to call it.

I have to say that, green as I was, the first letter I received from her would have sent me running for the delete button. The "You are so sexy" thing just doesn't cut it with any Russian women I have known and I must exclude Belarus from my equation, because although I had lovely communications from a really decent lady from there, I have not been there.

The other thing which would have rung huge bells for me is this, likewise I am a prolific, maybe even verbose letter writer. Big mistake. (Yes I read her advice book too and I think you know who we are talking about. She is a good sales lady.) Any person who doesn't have your language as their first language, simply doesn't have the capacity to go the distance in long letters. They lose part of your meaning. Thus for her to be able to follow the entirety of your long letters is nonsense. She had help and lots of it.

Even now, my dearest one loves a long letter from me and we understand each other well, but it is clear that by the latter part of a letter she has lost the handle on some of my meaning. It is a concentration and absorbtion thing. Don't anyone think it doesn't exist. It does.

I won't go into the meat of your communications, but the next red flag I will raise it the "Not being able to collect the money" thing. My guess and correct me if I am wrong is that you listed at least her city name on the WU transfer? Maybe more details. The moment you do that, they can't collect in any other city without hmmmmmmmm bringing some pressure or incentive to bare on the WU clerks. (I think you catch my point)

As for variances in photos between the two profiles, who knows, there is some amazing photos around and there was even then. But that bikini photo early on and the "For your eyes only" should have been enough. She went exclusive with you far too quick.

Fat yuri stuff written all over it from the get go. Yep I came close also, but the first one who tried me on was much more subtle than yours.

Summary:
I understand English well and liking to receive long letters, not a red flag, but reason for caution.

Dear, Dearest, Sweet kisses talk of absolute exclusiveness early on is nonsense. Don't buy it.

The "L" word doesn't come into the equation for a long time if at all in letters.

Liking your profile. What does she like? Specific questions and specific answers. No wishy washy stuff. Russian women are hard headed and know what the want. She will tell it to you how it is.

Money:
Don't send it..!!! Of course anyone will deny doing so, but we all have. C'mon be honest. When I sent money to mine and that is a very long and complex story and I don't advise anyone to do what we did, I asked for every detail and included all of that on the transfer paper. If she had given me one number wrong in her street address even, she would not have been able to collect. They must show their Russian passport to collect. Don't come into the line that all you need to do is put Russia on the transfer request. Get every detail and put it on there. If she cant show the same she can't collect. Too simple.

Remember people in gereral, these ladies who are scamming are not quite as smart as you think they are, you think they understand men so well and can press all your buttons at just the right time. Ever wondered how they know so much about men? They are men...!!! Most of them. Certainly not all, but the majority. Get a clue. If they know exactly how you are thinking, it is because they think exactly like you. Women don't think exactly like men.

Just my few pence worth to kick this off.

Posted by: Khashyar

Yes, I/O, I was green, and I was trusting.

Remember, this was my first experience with a Russian-Western long distance relationship (if you can call it a relationship

)

Obviously, I moved much too quickly, but then again, I trusted what she was telling me.

I obviously went way too fast.

I had sent the $100 to help pay for her emails, but obviously, she didn't use the money for the emails, since she wrote me less than 20 emails.

Another thing to note, all of this correspondence with her lasted almost exactly one month, so it seems that whoever this person was, made at least $100 for that month.

But, it is amazing how the mind creates a wonderful relationship when one does not exist.

Everyone is welcome to add their thoughts, here, after reading the correspondences.

Khashyar

Posted by: deccie

I have been enjoying reading your replies where you were finding out what was really going on.
It is the closest I have ever seen to you losing your cool and being "pissed off"!

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

I have been enjoying reading your replies where you were finding out what was really going on.
It is the closest I have ever seen to you losing your cool and being "pissed off"!

Yeh... I decided that I wanted to find out what really was going on

So, I was being a bit calculated in trying to find out info.

I was just hurt.... and I think that I was also a little shocked that the feelings that this person was expressing to me just weren't real.

There is a part of ourselves that wants to believe that a young woman loves us so much, and means all of those flattering things.

But one month of correspondence was not enough to get to know someone, but long enough for someone in Russia to get earn some money with just a few emails. (Better than a real job

)

Posted by: Khashyar

I don't want to give anything away for those who have NOT read the "Khashyar is scammed" thread, but there is an interesting paradox between the two women who I start writing to at about the same time: One of them being Olga, and the other another beautiful woman.....

Also, it is interesting that Olga found me through a very reputable Russian Marriage Agency (Elena's Models). This goes to show you that no agency owner can be 100% sure that every woman registered with their agency is authentic and trustworthy. I do appreciate how Elena Petrova responded to my email to her about Olga (you'll have to read the thread to discover what she says

).

I think that there are many insights that we can gather from the correspondence with Olga....

Khashyar

Posted by: Khashyar

And P.S...

Although I deleted Olga's last name, email and mailing address because I just don't feel like I should reveal them in the thread, I DID post the photos that she emailed me...

1) So that others who may have written to her can recognize her

and

2) because there is pretty solid evidence that there was unscrupulous behavior going on.

Khashyar

Posted by: royalpalace774

Hi KHASHYAR,
I like that you can show everyone an example of a normal american man giving it his best shot. You did all of the things any one of us do to try and meet and further a relationship with someone on the other side of the globe.

But the fact is no matter how normal or nice and genuine we men are, we never really know who or what we are communicating with . We just need to know DON'T LET ONE BAD APPLES SPOIL THE REST OF THE BUNCH.

And at some point in our communication the time eventually comes when our rational mind says: This looks good or Something just does not feel right. But I tried my best.

I have a couple sayings that I use for myself on how I live my own life. And you also used the same saying for yourself and met your wife.

One of my thoughts on how I live my life:
WHEN YOU STOP THROWING THE DARTS THE GAME IS OVER!

You my friend kept throwing the darts and landed a bullseye!

Thanks for sharing that experience.

Posted by: Pin Boy

khashyar, i think there will be many members and lurkers who will benefit from your "soul bareing" and willingness to share your naivete from a few years back. the time and effort you are putting into this is much appreciated.

hope you're prepared for some of the good natured kidding you might get.

and some of the bashing you've already received. yes, posters, we know khashyar made some of the classic mistakes. let's not waste bandwith pointing out the obvious.

pin boy

Posted by: Chrismc

That was a long but none the less very interesting read Kashyar. Some things happen for a reason, some things are just meant to be, perhaps you needed to experience the ups and downs with Olga so that when Lena did come along you were better positioned to act accordingly and make the right choice.

At least now you know that choice was correct, thanks for letting us in on how it all started for you two.

Chris

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pin Boy

khashyar, i think there will be many members and lurkers who will benefit from your "soul bearing" and willingness to share your naivete from a few years back. the time and effort you are putting into this is much appreciated.

hope you're prepared for some of the good natured kidding you might get.

and some of the bashing you've already received. yes, posters, we know khashyar made some of the classic mistakes. let's not waste bandwith pointing out the obvious.

pin boy

Hi Pin...

I don't mind if we all point out the obvious

(because I posted these correspondences as a learning tool, and as a way for us to learn how to have better long distance communication.

Someone can even make a numbered list of what I could have done that would have been more effective and wise.

Again, that correspondence with Olga was my first Russian-Western "relationship" (even though it lasted one month), and I have learned many things since then.

But, I want everyone to feel comfortable to discuss what they learned from the thread, or what they would have done differently.

Khashyar

Posted by: Khashyar

Thanks for your comments, Royal.

Yes, Chris. It was striking to me that I was contacted by both Olga and Lena about the same time, and one communication turned one way, and the other in a different direction.

One thing that the correspondence with Olga taught me was that the reality (or realness) of a long distance internet relationship can be deceiving, and in fact, we can create the reality of a relationship that is happening through the internet.

That is why taking more time to communicate, speaking more often by phone, and going to see the person in person is so important.

The communication with Olga lasted only about a month, so that person's real intentions revealed themselves during that time.

I feel o.k. that I sent the $100 for what I thought was going to help with communication.

If she was legitimate, and she needed the $100 for internet access, then the money was well spent. And if the person was not sincere, then I would be out only $100 dollars. So, in a case of sending $100 to someone for them to access the internet so you can communicate with them more, I think it is a reasonable thing to do if you have a good feeling about them.

I think that perhaps I should have waited a month or so later, and that it would have been best not to send her the package of books, etc. so early.

But, I did send her the package after 2 phone calls.

We live and grow wiser

Khashyar

Posted by: Khashyar

Another thing I wanted to mention...

I know that I spoke about spirituality a lot in my emails... I think that my thinking was that I wanted to mentioning it so that a woman understood that it was something that was important to me, and to see whether she would be comfortable with that.

Just FYI, I consider myself spiritual and not religious.

I wanted to clear that up because I do mention "God" and talk about spirituality in my emails to Olga.

As I began writing to Russian women during this time, I realized that most Russian women were not really interested in spirituality or religion, except for some women in Ukraine. I discovered this as I was emailing some Russian women through this internet "Dating" communication process.

Khashyar

Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khashyar

Yes, Chris. It was striking to me that I was contacted by both Olga and Lena about the same time, and one communication turned one way, and the other in a different direction.

.

I feel o.k. that I sent the $100 for what I thought was going to help with communication.

If she was legitimate, and she needed the $100 for internet access, then the money was well spent. And if the person was not sincere, then I would be out only $100 dollars. So, in a case of sending $100 to someone for them to access the internet so you can communicate with them more, I think it is a reasonable thing to do if you have a good feeling about them.

I think that perhaps I should have waited a month or so later, and that it would have been best not to send her the package of books, etc. so early.

But, I did send her the package after 2 phone calls.

We live and grow wiser

Khashyar

Khashyar,

Education usually costs something, experience can often cost something, either in terms of money or time wasted, so you could say that for $100 you learnt a lot of good lessons and gained valuable experience. So it did not cost you a lot really when you think about it.

We all learn one way or another but in my experience it always cost something to learn the right way and the wrong way to do something. As long as you learn from your mistakes then it is all worth it.

A good story Khashyar and is probably similar to how a lot of us start off when new to the international dating game, some are lucky and hit gold the first time, but for most it takes maybe 2 or 3 trips or more and probably many communications with different ladies to find the one we eventlually want to settle down with.

Chris

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrismc

Yes, I agree, Chris, that $100 for this lesson is not that much of a cost compared to what I learned (and to what others can also learn through this thread

).

I could also look at it as I spent $100 to find out if her intentions were legitimate or not, and I found out soon after.

If I would have sent her $1,000 so early in the communication, then the pain would have hurt more.

But with $100, I either would enable her to access the internet more and write more emails, or, like in this case, discovered that her intentions were not the best.

Khashyar

Posted by: chippie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khashyar

Yes, I agree, Chris, that $100 for this lesson is not that much of a cost compared to what I learned (and to what others can also learn through this thread

Hey Khash,
Lots of upside to the story. You learned a lot for $100.00. You eventually met the woman of your dreams. I know that is the MOST important for you, but if it wasn't for Olga/Irina you would not have started RMP, and to Olga (and you as well) I am thankful.

chippie - in Belarus and still looking!!!!!!!

Thank God for "Internet cafes". 85 cents an hour, can't be beat!

Posted by: Dave_N_Elvira

Just finished reading through your correspondences you posted Khashyar. I can really relate to it through my own personal experience. Ironically it was back in 2001 as well when I begun the correspondence thing.

Started by posting a profile on friendfinders and after a couple of weeks I got three bites from ladies. All of them from Lugansk, Ukraine. Didn�t know anything about Ukraine then and posted the profile hoping to meet someone locally. Never had the thought of finding a foreign girlfriend crossed my mind but the locals weren�t biting so I thought what the hell, why not cast my line further.

Started corresponding with these three ladies and after a couple of letters they said they were with an agency and couldn�t continue corresponding unless I did through the agency. As a couple of them need a translator and the cost was 50us a month I though why not. The three became one pretty soon afterwards. Things were going great and we would share letters every second or third day. I had asked for a phone number and she said she didn�t have one or access to one and that not many people had phones. Such was my level of my green-ness I bought this hook, line and sinker.

Correspondence continued for a few more months and I thought things were going great. Got her some gifts for Christmas and paid for an English course for her as well. Was January 2002 and I made up my mind I was going to go visit her and told her. Soon as I did that the letters stopped.

Spent around 3 weeks trying to contact her. I sent letter after letter to the agency and they wouldn�t reply either. Finally a friend told me I might have been scammed so I done some digging on the internet. Didn�t find her but I found the agency she worked for and discovered the whole agency was a scam and had some 5 name changes in the last two years.

Confronted the agency with this a few times and they didn�t reply. Finally I wrote a little computer program and spam bombed the hell out of their inbox with some 5,000 emails asking the question why.

Funnily enough a day after I started spam bombing them I got a reply and guess what. It was pretty much the same pneumonia letter you got Khashyar. Must have been the standard scam story at the time.

Wasn�t as lucky as you have a Lena to fall back on straight away but all good things come to those who wait and found Elvira around 3 years later.

Would have lost around 1k but that�s money. Easy come. Easy go. What really hurt was the way my emotions were played with by these soulless bastards. Like quite a few of the wise old heads nowadays, when I started out I was na�ve as ever. So green infact many of the noobs here would have told me to wake up and smell the java. You live and learn I guess.

Posted by: Khashyar

Thanks for sharing your experience, Dave.

It's interesting that you received a similar illness letter.

It is also interesting that it seems that Olga seemed to disappear soon after I mentioned seriously that I would like to visit.

Khashyar

Posted by: Dave_N_Elvira

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khashyar

I could also look at it as I spent $100 to find out if her intentions were legitimate or not, and I found out soon after.

If I would have sent her $1,000 so early in the communication, then the pain would have hurt more.

Interesting you would say this. Personally I don�t think losing $100 or $1,000 would have made a lick of difference to the hurt I felt.

If you look at it what where you really angered about? Losing $100 or having someone toy with you feelings and emotions. One side of the coin is a materialistic loss and lets face it, easily replaceable. The other side impacts your mental, physical and emotional states and can take time to recover from.

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_N_Elvira

Definitely it would bother me to have my feelings toyed with.

Khashyar

Posted by: WhittierRWBound

I, for one, am really glad this place is available.

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhittierRWBound

I, for one, am really glad this place is available.

Thanks, RWBound.

Khashyar

Posted by: Thorburn

This was really helpful and takes a bit of guts to bare it all completely.
I don't think she was that obvious. After all you did actually talk to her and she did respond to questions you asked.
The talk about sex was a red flag but you were not to know that.

The obvious mistake was sending money but I think you have to keep that in context. You would spend this much on a local first date with someone which you know may go nowhere. If you kept doing the same mistake I'd worry.

It really comes down to toying with your emotions and wasting your time.

Forgive me for saying so but I thought you lacked sophistication in the way you approached important issues. What I mean is that spirituality was important to you. So OK you were up front and honest about this. But can you see in hindsight that you directed her to tell you what you wanted to hear? I wonder if it would have been better to discover her thoughts about this issue before you shared yours?

Perhaps that is a lesson I can learn from this. I.E. pick one very important thing and get her to lead the discussion on that topic.

Anyways thanks very much for the real life example and lesson.

Posted by: ham

http://russianmeetingplace.com/foru...01&postcount=13

1 It looks as if the bikini had been PHOTOSHOPPED onto a naked body...which in turn raises the question of whom the naked photo was sent to...
2 which "decent" woman sends naked of herself pics over the net?
3 is it really a woman, or Igor with stolen pictures?
HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS.

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorburn

This was really helpful and takes a bit of guts to bare it all completely.
I don't think she was that obvious. After all you did actually talk to her and she did respond to questions you asked.
The talk about sex was a red flag but you were not to know that.

Ok, I may get slammed for this, because it must have been perhaps one of the most unpleasant things ever for K, but I am not sure you can really say this is a scam. The thing is she may have been a very uncaring, deceitful and shallow person, but as she did not ask for money I can't see how this is definately a scam? Here is my reasoning:

1. She did not ask for money, he sent it by himself.

2. If she was a real girl and not Fat Yuri, (but maybe she was just not a nice person!) She had to pay to use internet cafe's etc. Just because she only sent 20 emails does not mean that she was scamming. If he offered to send her money without having some kind of commitment, it is his choice.

3. Having multiple profiles is not always a scam. She may have been nervous to use her real name at first, and then later put up her profile in her own name. Perhaps she was worried about her friends seeing her profile etc. I myself had a second profile at one agency, I wanted to add some details, it became so frustrating trying to get them to change it - I just posted another. (you could post one by yourself, but only the agency could edit)

4. The name on the bank account is irrelevant, if the money was offered without strings, how it was received is her business.

Ok what I am saying, if the lady was really a scammer and she thought that she had one on the hook, she would have asked for alot more money for something. Read the e-mail exchanges, if she had wanted to play for money she could have got alot more.

I know from personal experience, I had a RW girlfriend, who I met in the US. She really liked me but could not make a commitment. But she didn't want to let me go, liked me paying for holidays, buying a computer, putting her through college. etc. In the end she just decided to move on. Heartless, uncaring, unfair? Yes. Scamming - no (because I dont think she deliberatly intended to play with feelings, thats just how it ended up) Whose fault? Mine

I know I am really playing devil's advocate here, but suppose she was sent $100 to help pay for her correspondence, then later met someone else or just changed her mind. Unless there has been a meeting in person, a proposal and a commitment I think she has the right to change her mind.

Sorry if this offends anyone, as I say, she may well have been a scammer, but we cannot know for sure. And if she was she was a rather poor one to only come out with $100

Posted by: ham

Quote:

Ok what I am saying, if the lady was really a scammer and she thought that she had one on the hook, she would have asked for alot more money for something. Read the e-mail exchanges, if she had wanted to play for money she could have got alot more.

scammers play many men at once. Many of them prefer small amounts, less likely to trigger calls for reparation.

Quote:

The name on the bank account is irrelevant, if the money was offered without strings, how it was received is her business.

it's a typical scam device. Boris actually receiving the money his profile as Natasha earnt him. Scammers even hire women to cash fees for a %.

Quote:

I know from personal experience, I had a RW girlfriend, who I met in the US. She really liked me but could not make a commitment. But she didn't want to let me go, liked me paying for holidays, buying a computer, putting her through college. etc. In the end she just decided to move on. Heartless, uncaring, unfair? Yes. Scamming - no (because I dont think she deliberatly intended to play with feelings, thats just how it ended up) Whose fault? Mine

well, if we see it as arm/bed candy <-> money, it's alright...but do men choose that kind of relationship, or are simply fooled into one?

Posted by: nocomfortzone

Ok, I finally read through it all.
I've been around here long enough to understand what the usual way scammers operate.
I don't think i've seen this before where some guy scammed shows exactly how you got yourself suckered into it.

Reading on i was frustrated thinking please wake up Khashyar as you seemed to easily let yourself believe it was a real person and a female but i guess that is what can happen when people want to believe something so much. Amazing stuff really.

I did not feel this character "Olga" gave you much to go on other than a basic profile but the way it was written in most e-mails was not particularly engaging or ongoing style of depth that would happen in a real conversation style. Maybe 1 or 2 of the earlier e-mails were closer to that to hook you in but essentially you did all the work letting the writer know they did not need to do much work to convince you as to be honest you sounded very needy and vulnerable and i guess that is like gold to them as you were not thinking very cynically about her shorter e-mails with little feedback on your long e-mails. I guess i'm different to most guys as i've never really chased females as such. I generally only open up to someone when i sense a person is genuinely interested but you were full on into your spiritual beliefs and ways of thinking about relationships and i did not feel the writer give you much to get excited about the "Olga". In fact as one or two others said the "bikini shot " looks extremely dodgy. Obviously you were so ready to belief this writer was real you created an imaginary sense of affection between you when the only thing i could pick up was you were really keen on being in relationship and you were talking yourself into "Olga" being on same wavelength of you.

Amazing stuff really how a persons mind can project a sense of realness in another character that was giving you very little feedback of any depth compared to what you were willing to share. Personally i think sure, give a good detailed e-mail to show generally what you are about as a person and if they genuinely hit the mark and engage properly in areas that are important to you then you have something to atleast start open up more to build some rapport with and only then does any affection and care grow once you get a feel for there day to day live, family/home life etc, etc. There was little reason to have much trust to be sending some money. Geez, you just went straight out and offered to send money thru Western Union with little trust developed. I saw virtually none of that real engaged conversation back and forwards with this "Olga" so amazed how much emotion you seemed to be feeling after only a few e-mails but obviously you are a very emotionally expressive person so that is a great strength to admire even though you could not detect there was little of that coming through from the other party. I guess that just shows at various stages in life any person can be fragile and emotionally vulnerable to others willing to take advantage.

I think Chrismc hit it on the head. You obviously had a very burning desire to be in relationship at the time for you to project a relationship in your mind and heart where there really was none but it sure must have made you ready to expierence the real difference of genuine caring person to fall in love with which you ulitmately did with Elena.

Well done on sharing how you came to meet a real women of substance via an unusal winding road :-)