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Why Marry Russian Women?

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Posted by: PacificFleet009

I just wanted to know why are so many men marrying Russian women? I have had tough experiences with American women, and have been traveling overseas in search of love. Russia seems like one country but I have heard a lot of stories of fellas who have been burned trying to get a Russian bride. There seems to be desirable women worldwide, especially in countries that were part of the Soviet Union, in Latin America, Asia, the South Pacific, etc. I met a Bulgarian woman who was absolutely gorgeous. South America has a lot of wonderful women. To me it seems as if a lot of Russian ladies are motivated in the same way as most American females, looking for a way into a more financially comfortable life. It would seem nice to travel to Russia and meet a woman, but I am not sure about tying the knot, I was divorced once(my previous wife was Hawaiian). It seems as if once she is on American shores she will play the field and dump me when a better "Catch" comes along.


Posted by: Cheburashka

Welcome to the forum PacificFleet009.


Posted by: nocomfortzone

Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFleet009
I just wanted to know why are so many men marrying Russian women?


I don't think they are. Of course there are some, which is why this site has developed an online community but in the millions and millions of people out there most marry people from their own country.



Quote:
I have had tough experiences with American women, and have been traveling overseas in search of love.


Surely you have not searched through the majority of Amercian woman for love? In a country of well over 250 million there must be many woman that you'd find a good match for yourself. They must exist but you you've stopped looking or not looking in the right areas you are likely to find an ideal match for you.


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFleet009
I just wanted to know why are so many men marrying Russian women?

Not that many at all.
Quote:
It seems as if once she is on American shores she will play the field and dump me when a better "Catch" comes along.

It is entirely possible. On the other hand, in many cases they do not.


Posted by: markgm

Lenas article covers some of the questions why some men are attracted to FSU women.



http://www.russianmeetingplace.com/...ssian_women.htm


Posted by: GoingToRussia

I think the first thing that attracted me to my wife was that we had so much in common. We couldn't find a topic or activity that we disagreed on. She is a beautiful woman but the pictures she posted were not all that attractive. I was quite surprised with her beauty when I actually met her. I stayed at her apartment for 10 days, we were rarely separated. This is when I realized that she could be the one. I never met a more caring and loving woman in my entire life. Russian Woman (RW) are almost the opposite of American women. You really have to meet a Russian woman to understand why we/I married one.

"Try it you'll like it".


Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
Russian Woman (RW) are almost the opposite of American women.


That's why I prefer American ones!


Posted by: Janus

It always amuses me when western men say Russian women are so much better than American women because they are so much more caring and loving with family values, blah, blah, ad nauseum.

You know everytime you use this as an argument to justify your decision it reinforces the sterotype of the "mail order bride" that most ignorant people have. The submissive, suzie home maker with no education who can barely speak the language and is grateful to have left behind the economic turmoil and poverty of her former country.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
It always amuses me when western men say Russian women are so much better than American women because they are so much more caring and loving with family values, blah, blah, ad nauseum.

You know everytime you use this as an argument to justify your decision it reinforces the sterotype of the "mail order bride" that most ignorant people have. The submissive, suzie home maker with no education who can barely speak the language and is grateful to have left behind the economic turmoil and poverty of her former country.

Well Janus, My Nat is far from submissive, speaks very good English, has 2 university degrees and a very good job....maybe its you that has this stereotype in your head....you dont have to be uneducated, poor, ignorant and submissive to have morals....i usually find its the other way around!!!


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
It always amuses me when western men say Russian women are so much better than American women because they are so much more caring and loving with family values, blah, blah, ad nauseum.

You know everytime you use this as an argument to justify your decision it reinforces the sterotype of the "mail order bride" that most ignorant people have. The submissive, suzie home maker with no education who can barely speak the language and is grateful to have left behind the economic turmoil and poverty of her former country.


Janus,

I said they were more loving and caring but never said they were better then American women.

I also never said anything about RW being submisive, no education, blah blah blah. My wife is probably more aggressive then any American woman I've ever dated. She has a degree, owns 2 businesses, and 2 pieces of property worth over $100,000 USD!

Maybe I didn't understand your post since I can barely speak my native language, but I think you are confused about RW and I'm sorry your RW
is not caring and loving.


Posted by: markgm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
It always amuses me when western men say Russian women are so much better than American women because they are so much more caring and loving with family values, blah, blah, ad nauseum.

You know everytime you use this as an argument to justify your decision it reinforces the sterotype of the "mail order bride" that most ignorant people have. The submissive, suzie home maker with no education who can barely speak the language and is grateful to have left behind the economic turmoil and poverty of her former country.


Janus i can only speak for my two girls Nat who is very intellegient, caring, loving and one of the bravest women i know her morals are very family orientated. She is definately not submissive and is willing to give everything a go Nat has also installed these values in our daughter Dana who is only 5 and can already speak 3 different languages and is currently learning her 4th English.
Both Nat & Dana could teach Aus women & Children something that has been missing out of our society for a long time now.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by markgm
Janus i can only speak for my two girls Nat who is very intellegient, caring, loving and one of the bravest women i know her morals are very family orientated. She is definately not submissive and is willing to give everything a go Nat has also installed these values in our daughter Dana who is only 5 and can already speak 3 different languages and is currently learning her 4th English.
Both Nat & Dana could teach Aus women & Children something that has been missing out of our society for a long time now.

TOO TRUE MARK TOO TRUE!!!!


Posted by: Janus

I like how the mob mentality forms on someone who has differing opinions and you have to throw insults at people.

GTR you're an idiot plain and simple. You are the last person in the world that should give advice on these forums. Pearls of wisdom such as "it's a proven fact most Russian women got to the states after meeting a man in the net" spew out of your gob.

I mean these are your words you have written when giving advice.

Now I see why you had to marry a foreign bride.


Posted by: Janus

One last thing I'll menton and I'm done. There is already so much stigma and negativity in our society directed at western men and their foreign brides. Ignorant statements such as "Russian women are more loving and caring then American women" only perpetuate them. Any intelligent human being knows that is nothing but a huge fallacy. That is like saying "blacks and hispanics are more lazy than white people," or "asians are smarter than white people."

No, you don't have to justify your reasons to anyone. You can say some cliche and more far from the truth or you can educate someone who is asking for information in earnest. However, it is your life and frankly noone's business how or why you made your decision in pursuit of happiness.

These forums had lots of useful informaton when I first joined. Pity any new member now has to dig through all the useless and assinine posts to find any.


Posted by: bobjf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
I like how the mob mentality forms on someone who has differing opinions and you have to throw insults at people.

GTR you're an idiot plain and simple. You are the last person in the world that should give advice on these forums. Pearls of wisdom such as "it's a proven fact most Russian women got to the states after meeting a man in the net" spew out of your gob.

I mean these are your words you have written when giving advice.

Now I see why you had to marry a foreign bride.


point 1
DO NOT PERSONALY ATTACK ANYONE ON THIS FORUM
a repeat offence will begin warning system

if you wish to post negative thats your choice but there are heaps of guys here who have actually met or married a russian girl who will dispute what you say
its got nothing to do with mob mentality but rather actuall fact which is something you don't seemed to have reserched .
i have been married to an rw for 4 years now
she has 2 uni degrees,was a school teacher,is far from submissive or meek & would of been more than happy for me to have moved to her.
a large percentage of sucessful guys on here will tell you the same,it is a misconception that all rw's wish to leave the fsu
i sugest that you get your facts straight before posting


Posted by: bobjf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
One last thing I'll menton and I'm done. There is already so much stigma and negativity in our society directed at western men and their foreign brides. Ignorant statements such as "Russian women are more loving and caring then American women" only perpetuate them. Any intelligent human being knows that is nothing but a huge fallacy. That is like saying "blacks and hispanics are more lazy than white people," or "asians are smarter than white people."

No, you don't have to justify your reasons to anyone. You can say some cliche and more far from the truth or you can educate someone who is asking for information in earnest. However, it is your life and frankly noone's business how or why you made your decision in pursuit of happiness.

These forums had lots of useful informaton when I first joined. Pity any new member now has to dig through all the useless and assinine posts to find any.


sorry you feel like that
this forum means different things to different people & if you don't like what you see thats your problem,whats assinine or useless to you can be a positive to someone else.
RMP is by far the most sucessfull international forum going & its normal that the occaisional new member will feel like you.
the easiest way to seek info on any thread is to simply post a question in that thread hmmmm not hard yer


Posted by: Janus

Did you even read and comprehend what I wrote?

Let me simplify it for you.

Blanket statements such as "Russian women are more loving and caring then American women" is a fallacy. This is an ignorant statement which perpetuates the sterotype that "MOB's" are submissive and uneducated and only good for raising kids. How you got the impression that I believe this is beyond me.

People are the same all over the world, no one group of people is more loving and caring than another. If you think otherwise then I don't know what to tell you.


Posted by: firemansam

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjf
.......,is far from submissive or meek

Nat is an amasing woman and I can attest, she is neither of these points!
Trust me, I forgot cake!!


A mistake I shall never make again!!!


or else!



Posted by: firemansam

Hey Janus, just curious.... How did the second trip go for you? I see in your sig that you are progressing through the hoops.
I assume (yeah I know, never do assume..) that your second visit went well?
Cheers,
Sam.


Posted by: Janus

Everything went really well and we enjoyed our time together immensely. Thank you for asking. The visa process is progressing nicely and we are planning another visit in the Spring.


Posted by: firemansam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
Everything went really well and we enjoyed our time together immensely. Thank you for asking. The visa process is progressing nicely and we are planning another visit in the Spring.

That's great news mate!
I wish you both continuing good fortune and a speedy positive outcome with the application!




Posted by: bobjf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
Did you even read and comprehend what I wrote?

Let me simplify it for you.

Blanket statements such as "Russian women are more loving and caring then American women" is a fallacy. This is an ignorant statement which perpetuates the sterotype that "MOB's" are submissive and uneducated and only good for raising kids. How you got the impression that I believe this is beyond me.

People are the same all over the world, no one group of people is more loving and caring than another. If you think otherwise then I don't know what to tell you.


yes i did as did others.
you stated mob mentality because others disagreed with your opinion which you are free to state
other members are also free to dispute yours on there own experiances
i was not the only 1 to get the wrong immpression so maybe you need to word your statements a little different but the personal attack on gtr is not on
we will agree to disagree no problem


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
I like how the mob mentality forms on someone who has differing opinions and you have to throw insults at people.

GTR you're an idiot plain and simple. You are the last person in the world that should give advice on these forums. Pearls of wisdom such as "it's a proven fact most Russian women got to the states after meeting a man in the net" spew out of your gob.

I mean these are your words you have written when giving advice.

Now I see why you had to marry a foreign bride.

Janus i didnt see anyone throwing insults at anyone till you stated calling people idiots and refering to mob mentality. Just because there are guys on here that hold those beliefs and decide to express their opinions doesnt mean mob mentality. It just means an opinion different to yours. If you have been over or have met an FSU woman and dont hold that opinion fine, but because some of do that doesnt mean we are idiots.....have a nice day


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
Did you even read and comprehend what I wrote?

Let me simplify it for you.

Blanket statements such as "Russian women are more loving and caring then American women" is a fallacy. This is an ignorant statement which perpetuates the sterotype that "MOB's" are submissive and uneducated and only good for raising kids. How you got the impression that I believe this is beyond me.

People are the same all over the world, no one group of people is more loving and caring than another. If you think otherwise then I don't know what to tell you.


I agree with you that blanket statements perpetuate stereotypes, and don't really have much to do with actual reality, because all people are different in their own individual personalities. A big mistake that many western men make is that they meet one russian woman and think that the rest of them is the same. We definitely are very different from each other, and can have nothing in common, language aside.

Coming back to the original question. There is no reason to get married to a Russian woman, unless you two are in love with each other. There is really no need to get married to anybody, whatever their nationality is, unless you are in love with them.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by inlove
I agree with you that blanket statements perpetuate stereotypes, and don't really have much to do with actual reality, because all people are different in their own individual personalities. A big mistake that many western men make is that they meet one russian woman and think that the rest of them is the same. We definitely are very different from each other, and can have nothing in common, language aside.

Coming back to the original question. There is no reason to get married to a Russian woman, unless you two are in love with each other. There is really no need to get married to anybody, whatever their nationality is, unless you are in love with them.

A truer statement i havent heard....."unless you are in love".......thanks Inlove simply put but you couldnt say it better with a hundred words.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
Pearls of wisdom such as "it's a proven fact most Russian women got to the states after meeting a man in the net" spew out of your gob.


I think you have me confused with someone else, I never said this.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
Now I see why you had to marry a foreign bride.


What's wrong with marrying a foreign bride? I see you are doing it ... maybe you had to?


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
These forums had lots of useful informaton when I first joined. Pity any new member now has to dig through all the useless and assinine posts to find any.


If you would quit posting then there would be fewer assinine posts.


Posted by: Cheburashka

Janus I actually agree with much of what you said. I said the same things to Alan2112 about sweeping generalizations. I think you could have used a little softer and less adversarial approach though. But it's your call as to whether you want to make friends here or just stir up the pot and piss people off.

Either way, good luck with your process. And congratulations on finding true love.


Posted by: Janus

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
I think you have me confused with someone else, I never said this.


I will honestly tell how I met my fiancee. It is no secret, most Russian women are in America beause they met an American man in Russia or on the Internet.

Those are your words from another thread. I think you should take your own advice to me about posting useless and assinine crap.

But hey, continue feeling "sorry for me because my fiancee is not as loving and caring as your wife."


Posted by: searcher

Gentlemen,

Lets please get back on topic and end the insults. Your opinions are each your own and may be useful to someone else, however, you can both disagree without the attacks.

I think each of you has something very useful to offer and each person has their own insight, so, lets return to peaceful discussions.

Thank you!


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
I will honestly tell how I met my fiancee. It is no secret, most Russian women are in America beause they met an American man in Russia or on the Internet.

Those are your words from another thread.


What is the name of the thread and what number is it? I do not remember this and it doesn't sound like my writing.


Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:
most Russian women are in America beause they met an American man in Russia or on the Internet.


Hmmm...
Most Russian women (if we mean "real" Russians, not Russian Jews) are in America as H4 -> GC, or F1->H1->GC, or J1...
The percentage of K1 / K3 is significantly low...


Posted by: Janus

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
What is the name of the thread and what number is it? I do not remember this and it doesn't sound like my writing.


I'm not surprised considering the number of useless and assinine posts you've made. But to answer your question, goto the thread entitled "The PIT #2" post #212. Those words I quoted are part of your post in response to another member who was commenting on stigmas and sterotypes our society has.

For someone who tells other members they are confused about RW, you've definitely proven you know absolutely nothing and your beliefs are ignorant at best. Maybe you can make a few thousand more worthless posts and have "super duper elite contributing member" as your title to accompany your "vast knowledge" so you can tell other members they are confused.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
I'm not surprised considering the number of useless and assinine posts you've made. But to answer your question, goto the thread entitled "The PIT #2" post #212. Those words I quoted are part of your post in response to another member who was commenting on stigmas and sterotypes our society has.

For someone who tells other members they are confused about RW, you've definitely proven you know absolutely nothing and your beliefs are ignorant at best. Maybe you can make a few thousand more worthless posts and have "super duper elite contributing member" as your title to accompany your "vast knowledge" so you can tell other members they are confused.

Janus lighten up a bit......for you to go searching through endless posts to justify an attack shows you are taking this very personal....chill out a bit mate...you can make a point without the insults


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
I'm not surprised considering the number of useless and assinine posts you've made. But to answer your question, goto the thread entitled "The PIT #2" post #212. Those words I quoted are part of your post in response to another member who was commenting on stigmas and sterotypes our society has.

For someone who tells other members they are confused about RW, you've definitely proven you know absolutely nothing and your beliefs are ignorant at best. Maybe you can make a few thousand more worthless posts and have "super duper elite contributing member" as your title to accompany your "vast knowledge" so you can tell other members they are confused.


I'm sorry you can't read Janus, I was talking about fiancees not tourists, students, or people on a work visa (read preceeding sentense).

Would you like us both to stop making unproductive posts now or would you like to continue this discussion?


Posted by: clark

I second/agree with Searcher. Cut the bull@hit and the insults and get on topic. Janus has a very valid point. If I have seen the remark once I've saw it a hundred times on this forum. How much more caring, loving, wonderful, remarkable, beautiful, slim, ect. ect. russian women are over american/western women. I also agree with him it helps to perpetuate the various stereotypes and it simply isn't true. I totally believe these guys who make such statements have found all of those attributes in the woman they married/loved/love/ plan to marry ect. I tried to explain in a recent thread this very same point but alas to no avail. These attributes can be found in women from any country at any time. It's not the country guys....it's the women!! Are there more in FSU? Perhaps, it is a really big country. By in-large they are not MORE caring/loving ect unless you can show me how you've gauged it. How do you put a yardstick on a better caring or a better love? Show me and perhaps I could change my mind. This is all just my personal opinion btw .


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
By in-large they are not MORE caring/loving ect unless you can show me how you've gauged it. How do you put a yardstick on a better caring or a better love? Show me and perhaps I could change my mind. This is all just my personal opinion btw .


My yardstick is the RW I've met and cooresponded with. It is my opinion, am I not entited to one?


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
I second/agree with Searcher. Cut the bull@hit and the insults and get on topic. Janus has a very valid point. If I have seen the remark once I've saw it a hundred times on this forum. How much more caring, loving, wonderful, remarkable, beautiful, slim, ect. ect. russian women are over american/western women. I also agree with him it helps to perpetuate the various stereotypes and it simply isn't true. I totally believe these guys who make such statements have found all of those attributes in the woman they married/loved/love/ plan to marry ect. I tried to explain in a recent thread this very same point but alas to no avail. These attributes can be found in women from any country at any time. It's not the country guys....it's the women!! Are there more in FSU? Perhaps, it is a really big country. By in-large they are not MORE caring/loving ect unless you can show me how you've gauged it. How do you put a yardstick on a better caring or a better love? Show me and perhaps I could change my mind. This is all just my personal opinion btw .

Well Clark the Yardstick i use is my current situation compared to previous ones. I am not a bitter man, i still speak to 2 of my last 3 ex girlfriends here...and all in all they are great girls. Your statement of me finding those "attributes" is spot on. i couldnt find that here.....are there women like that in OZ and the rest of the West...of course. But i find that most of them are HAPPILY MARRIED...just my point. I have never had a problem finding ..younger, attractive women. And i have found some women that morally and intellectually satisfy me...but physically dont. Is that shallow...thats up to you to decide...but i wouldnt be honest with someone if i got on famously with them but had to force myself to be attracted to them on a physical level. And you are also spot on in saying its the women not the country. But i personaly cannot understand anyone that has been over and met a FSU woman in person...that doesnt see the differences in their approach to life ...the things that are important to them...their morals and family values. I personaly have many more female friends than male. The ones that i would consider a good catch ( are Married ) and funnily enough tend to agree with me on the whole singles scene. Have a good look around the next time you are out shopping or about your day to day activities. See how many women you see that are poorly dressed or no make up ect and you think....HMM she would be really attractive if she had a bit more pride in her appearance....i see it all the time. Im no stud , but i have never had trouble finding a woman....finding the right woman ....thats another story...until now


Posted by: clark

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
My yardstick is the RW I've met and cooresponded with. It is my opinion, am I not entited to one?


Absolutely! more than one even! We are all free to believe what ever we wish . Thats this great country we live in GTR here is the line between opinion and fact. Semantics maybe, but when one states their opinion they should probably note it as their opinion. unless of course they are stating it as fact and have the proof of fact. Otherwise it can easily be taken out of the intended context. In the case of my disagreement with Alan in the other thread, he honestly believed he was right based solely on his experience and opinion, and was wrong. The love light in his eyes wouldn't allow him to believe anything else either I am by no means a politically correct nazi...far from it. But when such statements are made, a by-product of those statements casts aspersions when unwarrented and unjustified to american/western women. Make any sense??


Posted by: clark

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
Well Clark the Yardstick i use is my current situation compared to previous ones. I am not a bitter man, i still speak to 2 of my last 3 ex girlfriends here...and all in all they are great girls. Your statement of me finding those "attributes" is spot on. i couldnt find that here.....are there women like that in OZ and the rest of the West...of course. But i find that most of them are HAPPILY MARRIED...just my point. I have never had a problem finding ..younger, attractive women. And i have found some women that morally and intellectually satisfy me...but physically dont. Is that shallow...thats up to you to decide...but i wouldnt be honest with someone if i got on famously with them but had to force myself to be attracted to them on a physical level. And you are also spot on in saying its the women not the country. But i personaly cannot understand anyone that has been over and met a FSU woman in person...that doesnt see the differences in their approach to life ...the things that are important to them...their morals and family values. I personaly have many more female friends than male. The ones that i would consider a good catch ( are Married ) and funnily enough tend to agree with me on the whole singles scene. Have a good look around the next time you are out shopping or about your day to day activities. See how many women you see that are poorly dressed or no make up ect and you think....HMM she would be really attractive if she had a bit more pride in her appearance....i see it all the time. Im no stud , but i have never had trouble finding a woman....finding the right woman ....thats another story...until now



Ira....I'm with you! You my friend are preaching to the choir. I have not yet been to the fsu. Thus I cannot confirm or deny what many of you guys are saying. I've read "you HAVE to go to see". That may very well be the truth and I am taking ya'lls word for it. Although I have traveled extensively. In my travels I have been I've met many comparables to the ladies the masses here describe. This inside the USA and other countries. I too am no super stud yet I have dated and had relationships with probably more than my fair share. Many younger, some older and many my same age range. I liked/loved them all. Many of them it wasn't necessarily their fault the relationship ended. I can be quirky and one of my quirks is I want the perfect lady for me, not necessarily the perfect lady. Many of the ladies I've known are wonderful people and deserve the best. They do not fall under the descriptions many in this forum have of western women. At the risk of sounding egotistical, I have never met a woman that left me feeling inferior or that I was out of their league. To the answer of your yardstick. That is an excellent answer and in my mind the only one that counts. That will be the one I personally use (but my own experience...LOL). Even if I find her in fsu it won't make the prevailing statement of western woman any more valid. I do now and I am sure I will then believe it is the woman and not the country.


Posted by: ira156

In speaking to my Nat she said to me ...i am not perfect....to which i replied ..i am not after the perfect woman...just the right woman....you!


Posted by: dagpop

Pacific Fleet,if you don't want a Russian,try an Uzbek.I am very happy with my Uzbek wife.


Posted by: markgm

Ok to those involved who obviously did not listen to searcher if there is one more personal shot at another member in this thread it will be closed and those involved will be officially warned.

I will not remind you again.


Posted by: GoeastLJ

Clark has got a valid point. Most of us looking at RW have probably not done well in our encounters with the WW but we may be wiser second time around. Remember, it takes two to tangle and all we are hearing here is the story about the caring men who have been let down by the callous WW. Well, could it be that the WW have actually made us into good men and we have therefore treated the RW better than we did the WW? Reading the comments on this forum, I regularly blow hot and cold as I, at one time, hear about the loving, family oriented RW, and then about the untrustworthy, conniving RW who is only interested in obtaing the Green card the next time. Hands up all those who got a high paying job after their first degree but still went on to study for another degree! It took me years to actually find time to do my Masters degree because I had neither the time nor the money to do so. I hear degrees used to be free during the Soviet Era and who can say that the WM would be incapable of achieving similar feats if universities were offering free education?

Good luck to you if you have found a good RW, but please, let's offer the type of advice that prepares the prospective searchers reality rather than a world of fantasy where they think that they will find this angelic RW regardless of their own short comings.


Posted by: searcher

Good points LJ!

People need to realize that all women are basically the same with only MINOR differences due to enviroment (I once before said my opinion is that generally people who lived more difficult lives are more humble).


Posted by: bobjf

Quote:
Originally Posted by searcher
Good points LJ!

People need to realize that all women are basically the same with only MINOR differences due to enviroment (I once before said my opinion is that generally people who lived more difficult lives are more humble).


i agree & i think most of the guys posting are refering to there own or other known relatsionships
however i dissagree that women everywhere are the same,alike maybe but eastern women on the whole have better family values which is showing through here.
on the whole they are as sercher states more humble in there expectations,most through experiance don't expect the earth & are well aware that money & material items are hard won.
yes there are western women every bit as good & kind just as there are eastern women who will take advantage but as my rw says when you concider that a lot of these girls have been taken advantage of or know 1 who has she can understand there mentality even though she thinks what they do is very wrong.
i'm a bit longer in the tooth than a lot here & have seen good & bad everywhere.
many here state how you should go about the rw thing or about who is right or wrong.
about time that people realised that everyone is different & that there is no right or wrong way.
same with so called red flag scam tests
i bet almost every sucessfull couple on rmp would fail some of these tests,just reinforces what i have maintained listen,use your head but don't cut your nose off to spite your face.
are rw different to ww in my experiance yes
my experiance married to ww 20+years
plenty of friends simuler experiances,knew her several years befor we committed,most of these guys will tell you that there spouses were manipulative,materialistic women who have lost family values & concider there wished for way of life to be fair payment for sex etc
there came a time in my marriage & theres when we refused to be held accountable for there demands,it is no longer any sort of life for us.
many guys here were attracted to rw's because most have very different outlook on life,put there immidiate family before everything & will fully support there man above all else & yes i do agree with my wife when after a period of time in australia she made the observation that most western women would soon be out in the snow in russia
for the guy who used the education thing on degees.
there are not free degrees to be had in russia & as my wife states many russian kids do not go to uni as there parents just can't find the money to send them.
nats mate is a teacher & also does dressmaking & works part time of an evening to put her daughter through uni,rita was what we would call a straight A student but still only got partial help from gov.
years ago it was easier but now only the best students get any help.
so for me & many here marrying an rw was a breath of fresh air,since nat has been here we have lost some friends because the females couldn't come to terms with nats attitude,other couples the guys are insanely jealous & some of there wives would gladly let a contract on nat & strangly a few of the girls have eased back to being the woman that the bloke married & found happyness as a couple again
my 2 cents worth agree or not, up to you


Posted by: ira156

While working yesterday i had a Russian woman come through a home open i had. We got to talking and SHE warned me be careful marrying a Russian woman.....at the same time she also was shocked to see how many western women treated their husbands


Posted by: markgm

There are good women in every country but unfortunately they are snapped up pretty quickly.
There are also women in every country that will scam you and fleece you very quickly no country is immune to this.

With the advent of the internet, breaking down borders, the ease at which you can travel these days to nearly all countries and the advancements in Telecommunications it has made the world a smaller place and given people more of an opportunity to broaden there search for a partner for better or worse.

I myself have been lucky to have found a very good partner and she says the same of me as well.

As i was with my ex wife for 25 years 19 of those married one lesson i did learn from this and it was a 25 year lesson and that was what to look for in a woman good or bad you can not buy this experience it has to be earnt.
There are certain traits and bad habits that you can not hide but you need to be able to see them for what they are and be strong and stay away from the women that posess these Traits and habits.

In knowing this it gave me the opportunity to find a very good woman with the traits and qualities that i wanted of a partner someone who loved me for who i am not for who she wanted me to be this opened up a new world for me wondering why the hell did i not do this years ago.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

I agree with you 100% Bob. Basically women are women. When I say something to my wife about talking on the phone, window shopping, buying clothes, or liking jewelery ... she says (with a smile) "I am only woman". She doesn't say I am only a Russian woman.

Yes it is their values, culture, life experiences that set them apart from Eastern women. I could not find an American woman with my values. RW seem to have a respect for nature, values, and most everything that most American women lack. Yes I met American women that I found attractive, but as Mark said ... they were attached.

Just my opinion based on my experiences.


Posted by: Sammy&Sasha

Why do I always say how wonderful my woman is???????Is it because she is Ukrainian?Do I have deep seated disrespect for American females? All women are "killer" in some way and are actually God's gift to humanity! I don't want to speak for anyone but me ok........My Ukraine wife or wife to be is very certain and serious in her vision of her future and this is sexy.She knows exactly what she is looking for in life. I never see this in Western Woman.Did I mention she is "smokin hot" without makeup.FSU woman have certain physical features not found anywhere in the world.I can easily tell how serious she believed in her education and strong sense of family.My wife is so poor its terrible...she would tell me she is between middle class and very poor in Russia terms.It is "Crazy" that such monetary poor woman is so inner person rich I declare myself the richest man in the world as I have her mind and heart.So is it the East or is it the West?I felt myself go East as I saw my "roots"in her values and beliefs. I saw my values in her values.Another reason it is not a leap of faith,she would say we are doing the correct thing by being partners.


Posted by: Legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus
most Russian women are in America beause they met an American man in Russia or on the Internet.


Most Russian women are in America because they are loved women by their American men.
Why are they loved by their American men? Because an American man is just man as other men in the World and he wants to find special woman - Lady of his heart, whose image satisfies his own ideas about woman

Olga.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legal
Most Russian women are in America because they are loved women by their American men.
Why are they loved by their American men? Because an American man is just man as other men in the World and he wants to find special woman - Lady of his heart, whose image satisfies his own ideas about woman

Olga.

Very well said Olga


Posted by: WhittierRWBound

My perception is also that because I am seriously learning and will, to the point address several RW for my desire to be married to one RW, I will be having meaningful discussions with some of these women.

Why can I do this directly to RW and not to AW?

Because, my perception, tells me that RW will be more readily open to seriosuly consider my desire to marry one, than AW would.

Why do RW would more seriosuly consider me than AW?

Because my perception tells me that RW value marriage more than AW

Why do RW value marriage more than AW?

Because my understanding is that FSU society has not yet reached the feminist dominance that AW use against men.

Bottom line: The FSU environment has maintained a balance between ANY men and women that it is attractive to ANY man.


If I were to directly approach an AW and tell her:

"I want to start a relationship from a foundation based on trust, openness, and friendship. I wish to evolve a relationship from curiosity about each other, toward understanding each others realistic expectations, declaring a mutual desire for each other, experiencing intimacy, passion, and love. I am interested in finding someone who will be willing to open her heart to me and be my soulmate; because I am ready to do the same. I hope you agree to this."

What would you think her response would be?


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhittierRWBound
My perception is also that because I am seriously learning and will, to the point address several RW for my desire to be married to one RW, I will be having meaningful discussions with some of these women.

Why can I do this directly to RW and not to AW?

Because, my perception, tells me that RW will be more readily open to seriosuly consider my desire to marry one, than AW would.

Why do RW would more seriosuly consider me than AW?

Because my perception tells me that RW value marriage more than AW

Why do RW value marriage more than AW?

Because my understanding is that FSU society has not yet reached the feminist dominance that AW use against men.

Bottom line: The FSU environment has maintained a balance between ANY men and women that it is attractive to ANY man.


If I were to directly approach an AW and tell her:

"I want to start a relationship from a foundation based on trust, openness, and friendship. I wish to evolve a relationship from curiosity about each other, toward understanding each others realistic expectations, declaring a mutual desire for each other, experiencing intimacy, passion, and love. I am interested in finding someone who will be willing to open her heart to me and be my soulmate; because I am ready to do the same. I hope you agree to this."

What would you think her response would be?


Her response would be : THAT'S NICE I have some things I need to do. Talk to you soon. BYE!


Posted by: WhittierRWBound

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalpalace774
Her response would be : THAT'S NICE I have some things I need to do. Talk to you soon. BYE!



I totally agree! I think there is always a kind of hesitation in place in our society about having a meaningful relationship. We have the divorce statistic in our heads, like the huge white lelphant walking in our livingroom that we try to ignore.


Posted by: youlek

Yeah, I agree too. People are the same everywhere.
You may meet terrible men in Russia and abroad.
You may meet ugly women in Russia too
http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/in-free/index5.html


Posted by: youlek

sorry I couldt resist
http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/543/543361P1.html
http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/543/543774P1.html
I wonder if they saw their pics


Posted by: chippie

Quote:
Originally Posted by youlek


Now, Now. Be nice.........



chippie


Posted by: WhittierRWBound

Quote:
Originally Posted by youlek
Yeah, I agree too. People are the same everywhere.
You may meet terrible men in Russia and abroad.
You may meet ugly women in Russia too
http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/in-free/index5.html



Though people are "the same" everywhere, there are differences among peoples of different nations. Germans have been innovators in agriculture among other things. Japanese recognized for their pursuit of quality "perfection"; and Chinese for commerce. Great peoples, great cultures, great values. Do Russian women value marriage as much, if not more than American women?


Posted by: youlek

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhittierRWBound
Do Russian women value marriage as much, if not more than American women?

All women are the same. It is a myth that Russian women are more family oriented. They were 20 years ago.
It all depends what person your spouce is


Posted by: bobjf

Quote:
Originally Posted by youlek
All women are the same. It is a myth that Russian women are more family oriented. They were 20 years ago.
It all depends what person your spouce is


that would depend on the age group & area the girl comes from,very different attitude away from big cities.


Posted by: markgm

Quote:
Originally Posted by youlek
All women are the same. It is a myth that Russian women are more family oriented. They were 20 years ago.
It all depends what person your spouce is


I noticed a huge difference travelling around Ukraine on quite a few occasions the difference between Aussie women's values and the values of the women over there most are very family orientated, very helpfull, very caring and hard working they also take a hell of alot more pride in there appearance.


Posted by: youlek

I think in general people are the same in any country.
I can't say that American men are better than Russians.
It all depends what a person has inside, and he/she may live in any country


Posted by: nocomfortzone

Quote:
Originally Posted by markgm
I noticed a huge difference travelling around Ukraine on quite a few occasions the difference between Aussie women's values and the values of the women over there most are very family orientated, very helpfull, very caring and hard working they also take a hell of alot more pride in there appearance.



I honestly think your own expierences are colouring your view in this area.
I think of my mothers, sisiters, aunties, cousins etc. and i've been blessed with very caring and helpful women in my life and they are all Aussies.
Also my own expierence years ago with an Aussie girl was she had a simple family orientated desire to get married and have kids and i realised I had many more interest and things in life so i needed to break up with her for her own good and mine for the longer term as my interest were far more vast a simple married life was not in my plans. I hurt her by breaking up, however she got over that and got married and has two kids so it worked out well in long run.

Then my paths cross with a Ukraine girl and my first concern was the day she was describing a simple family situation between a husband and wife and my inital reaction was damn, she is just like the Aussie girl i was in love with but avoided getting married. It was like, why do these girls i feel attracted to only have simple desires of a married life and not much more.
So overall i don't think there is much difference in wants of females in different parts of world. They all like to feel attractive, loved and in most cases create a family life.


Posted by: markgm

Quote:
Originally Posted by nocomfortzone
I honestly think your own expierences are colouring your view in this area.
I think of my mothers, sisiters, aunties, cousins etc. and i've been blessed with very caring and helpful women in my life and they are all Aussies.
Also my own expierence years ago with an Aussie girl was she had a simple family orientated desire to get married and have kids and i realised I had many more interest and things in life so i needed to break up with her for her own good and mine for the longer term as my interest were far more vast a simple married life was not in my plans. I hurt her by breaking up, however she got over that and got married and has two kids so it worked out well in long run.

Then my paths cross with a Ukraine girl and my first concern was the day she was describing a simple family situation between a husband and wife and my inital reaction was damn, she is just like the Aussie girl i was in love with but avoided getting married. It was like, why do these girls i feel attracted to only have simple desires of a married life and not much more.
So overall i don't think there is much difference in wants of females in different parts of world. They all like to feel attractive, loved and in most cases create a family life.


Hey mate good to see you had a good trip and enjoyed yourself. It is only my view but i have noticed a big difference myself personally with the family values over there compared to here with the way children act towards there parents, theres a huge difference in this area as well as the respect shown for older people by the younger generation and i have seen this all over Ukraine not just in one place.
my mother and sisters are also very caring and helpful people but it is fast becoming a rareity here in Australia something that i have watched decline in our country for quite a few years.
Wants and needs similar sure but family values definately different between our two countries plus alot of the women here just want,want,want and are not to content on just being settled into a happy family most want to keep up with the jone'ses.


Posted by: nocomfortzone

[QUOTE=markgm]Hey mate good to see you had a good trip and enjoyed yourself. {/QUOTE]

The trip was was beyond good. Actually my auntie wanted me to write about it so i made a deal with her. She write about life for her as a kid and teenager for our family history and i started working on the first day of my trip oveseas. ****!, it was about 10 pages long and only just started :-)


Posted by: clark

Quote:
Originally Posted by nocomfortzone
I honestly think your own expierences are colouring your view in this area.
I think of my mothers, sisiters, aunties, cousins etc. and i've been blessed with very caring and helpful women in my life and they are all Aussies.
Also my own expierence years ago with an Aussie girl was she had a simple family orientated desire to get married and have kids and i realised I had many more interest and things in life so i needed to break up with her for her own good and mine for the longer term as my interest were far more vast a simple married life was not in my plans. I hurt her by breaking up, however she got over that and got married and has two kids so it worked out well in long run.

Then my paths cross with a Ukraine girl and my first concern was the day she was describing a simple family situation between a husband and wife and my inital reaction was damn, she is just like the Aussie girl i was in love with but avoided getting married. It was like, why do these girls i feel attracted to only have simple desires of a married life and not much more.
So overall i don't think there is much difference in wants of females in different parts of world. They all like to feel attractive, loved and in most cases create a family life.


NoComfort..... it seems half of my posts on the forum have been on this subject. Let me start by stating I agree emphatically with you and your view of western woman. I too neither find them uncaring, unattractive, fat and frumpy feminist nazis. Absolutely there are some in the west but there are also some in the east as well. Specific numbers are all irrelevent. I cannot in any good consciencous demean or degrade western women even if for the sake of conversation because I do not find the stereo types I am seeing on the forum to be true.

I know your an Aussie as we've had pleasant dialogue before. My interest in RW do not stem from an idea that WW are all ugly man hating golddiggers. I myself find the style and demeanor of RW interesting and attractive. I personally know where one can find many "attractive", "classy" unattached american women. If one was so inclined to find a marraige minded, child rearing american lady all they need to do is visit Pennsylvania Dutch country for an Amish or mennonite or perhaps any other religious oriented lady.

My point here is this: Why is it neccessary to attempt to demean and degrade a woman of your own nationality to some how raise the status of other nationalities, namely Russian women? I have enjoyed this forum for quite a few months but I have to say this is getting old news to me. I have asked many times but have yet to receive a viable answer from any of the perpetrators. I am not directing this at you NoComfort, I believe we are in unison on this question, but stating it for anyone on the forum who truly does believe Russian women are superior because they are Russian, or Ukrainian, or Belarussian or whatever.


Posted by: ira156

Guys there are great attractive faithful loving women here....just as there are faithful hardworking sober Russian men......trouble is almost all are already happily married.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

My only comment. I will never date or marry an American woman. Russian women spoiled me and in my opinion are the best ... and I was burned by one!


Posted by: nocomfortzone

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
NoComfort..... it seems half of my posts on the forum have been on this subject. Let me start by stating I agree emphatically with you and your view of western woman.


Well lets be clear here atleast about my own views. I don't pigeon women into seperate groups. There is too much of that going on in the world as it is.
Women from certain places may have certain tendencies of traits and characteristics. Most people tend to be a product of their environment which can mean picking up qualities that may be perceived as good or bad by an obeservor with any bias. But my overall view is woman the world over have much more in common than differences. They all liked to feel attractive, loved and prefer to create harmony with the near environement around them which in most cases tends to be focussed on family and household. You can find wonderful women anywhere and anyone that limits themselves thinking there are only good women in certain regions is creating that situation for themselves to expierence.

Unfortunately some people do like to degrade or demean others for their own personal reasons but that is their ownership in thinking that limited way. Me included as i can fall into the trap aswell but like to think i rarely do.
None of us are perfect and the sooner we all realise that, the better.



Quote:
I know your an Aussie as we've had pleasant dialogue before. My interest in RW do not stem from an idea that WW are all ugly man hating golddiggers. I myself find the style and demeanor of RW interesting and attractive.
Yes, my feelings is if a person is attracted to some women for the right reasons it does not matter where she comes from or where he comes from. As long as they are building a relationship on their strengths and interest rather than what they felt they missed out on before then it stands a greater chance of a loving relationship for the good of both.

Quote:
My point here is this: Why is it neccessary to attempt to demean and degrade a woman of your own nationality to some how raise the status of other nationalities, namely Russian women? I have enjoyed this forum for quite a few months but I have to say this is getting old news to me. I have asked many times but have yet to receive a viable answer from any of the perpetrators. I am not directing this at you NoComfort, I believe we are in unison on this question, but stating it for anyone on the forum who truly does believe Russian women are superior because they are Russian, or Ukrainian, or Belarussian or whatever.


anyone who thinks any nationality is superior to another might aswell have been a Nazi. I'm not interested in ruffling feathers for the sake of it but i do love challenging prevailing long held beliefs in certain groups of forums if i thinking it is healthy. However, i'm not fussed about it as i realise some people do generally believe they will only find a good women for them in a certain region. As the saying goes in one of my favourite books
"Argue for your limitations and sure enough they are yours "

and to follow that up
live and let live


Posted by: markgm

Quote:
Originally Posted by markgm
Hey mate good to see you had a good trip and enjoyed yourself. It is only my view but i have noticed a big difference myself personally with the family values over there compared to here with the way children act towards there parents, theres a huge difference in this area as well as the respect shown for older people by the younger generation and i have seen this all over Ukraine not just in one place.
my mother and sisters are also very caring and helpful people but it is fast becoming a rareity here in Australia something that i have watched decline in our country for quite a few years.
Wants and needs similar sure but family values definately different between our two countries plus alot of the women here just want,want,want and are not to content on just being settled into a happy family most want to keep up with the jone'ses.


Guys I'm only talking about my view on this and not stereotyping.
I have worked with many different migrant groups over the last 25 years and the one thing that has stuck out is the family values, respect and hard work ethic that most others have from these different cultures. Travelling to Ukraine a few times and visiting quite a few cities, towns and villages to me this really stood out as well and i can remember thinking quite often that we could learn alot from these people especially with families and respect for others.
I have employed many over the years from Asia, India,Poland, Sweden, Ukraine and Lebanon and i personally can see the difference. There are some women here in Aus that are like this but you will not find them single or available.
Most of us here on this site have a preference for FSU women thats why we are here so we are going to be one eyed at times.
Australia has many beautiful women as well, and in my state the women do outnumber the men but if i walk down the street here i hardly notice them but take Ukraine for example nearly all the women there really do stand out and those of you that have been there can not help but notice this there pride in there appearence is quite noticable.


Posted by: bobjf

for those still in the process i wish you luck & an open mind.
life experiance may change your views,you are free to voice your opinion but it dosen't make you anymore right than those who disagree.


Posted by: EasyTarget

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
My only comment. I will never date or marry an American woman. Russian women spoiled me and in my opinion are the best ...
Totally agree. I have sworn off American women. I don't really understand it, but once you have experienced the best, you have no desire to try anyone else.


Posted by: bobjf

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
I know your an Aussie as we've had My point here is this: Why is it neccessary to attempt to demean and degrade a woman of your own nationality to some how raise the status of other nationalities, namely Russian women? I have enjoyed this forum for quite a few months but I have to say this is getting old news to me. I have asked many times but have yet to receive a viable answer from any of the perpetrators. I am not directing this at you NoComfort, I believe we are in unison on this question, but stating it for anyone on the forum who truly does believe Russian women are superior because they are Russian, or Ukrainian, or Belarussian or whatever.



pity your choice of words,i don't see anyone demeaning or degradeing women,simply offering there opinion as is there right wether you agree or not.
everyone sees life differently & as this forum revolves around russia ,it is fair to say opinions will revolve around rw's & the fact that most who have suceeded or are looking do so because they are disalusioned about females in general from there own countries.
so it also stands to reason that these guys,me included will talk about there personal experiance with women from there own countries.
have i noticed any differences between these women
then my answer is yes but then i'm biased as i married 1 & i'm extremly happy


Posted by: bobjf

Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyTarget
Totally agree. I have sworn off American women. I don't really understand it, but once you have experienced the best, you have no desire to try anyone else.



no argument from me easy,natasha has been a breath of fresh air for me & turned a lot of my mates green with envy.


Posted by: youlek

frflowr:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
Guys there are great attractive faithful loving women here....just as there are faithful hardworking sober Russian men......trouble is almost all are already happily married.

I am happily single but busy with some man


Posted by: Thorburn

One the problems with this discussion is with making broad generalisations about people. However I think as long as they are accepted as only broad generalisations that is fine. I also agree that we are highlighting the differences and glossing over the similarities - but that is human nature. One of the other problems is in grouping all Western women together.

Let's take fat as an example. American women are often fat. Sorry if I have offended anyone but it is a simple truth. For almost anyone who has not been to America before - just travel around say California for a little while. The food portions and fat/sugar content are enormous and it shows in the people - particularly the women.

Now I wouldn't make the same statement about women in Western Europe for the simple reason that it isn't true. All western people are becoming more fat but you don't see that same level of obesity in say Spain.

In my country, polynesians of both genders are fat but white people, particularly women are usually not. We drive literally everywhere so of course it shows but most women stay reasonably healthy. They might not be models but they usually take care in what they eat.

So here are some generalisations about people, particularly women. You might not like them but if I had to, I could produce empirical evidence to back them up.

Now men are attracted to healthy but not fat women.
If there are more of those in FSU then that is one reason men will be interested. It's just basic human instincts at work. When looking for a mate, people do things to increase their odds.

I think simlar generalisations can also be made even though there will be many exceptions.


Posted by: youlek

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorburn
Let's take fat as an example. American women are often fat. Sorry if I have offended anyone but it is a simple truth. For almost anyone who has not been to America before - just travel around say California for a little while. The food portions and fat/sugar content are enormous and it shows in the people - particularly the women.

I believe it doesnt depend on a nation(maybe in some way). I think it depends on how lazy you are .
I confess I am rather lazy, but i visit fitness 2-3 times a week.
so if a person is fat it may mean he/she is lazy.
I am not talking when a person is ill.
by the way, swimming is the best and easier way to lose weight


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorburn
Let's take fat as an example. American women are often fat. Sorry if I have offended anyone but it is a simple truth. For almost anyone who has not been to America before - just travel around say California for a little while. The food portions and fat/sugar content are enormous and it shows in the people - particularly the women.


It shows in men just as well. There are as many american men that are fat as american women. Americans are one of the fattest nations in the planet, let's leave it at that.

Quote:
Now men are attracted to healthy but not fat women.


Just like women are more attracted to healthy and not fat guys. Works both ways.


Posted by: Raspberry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorburn
Let's take fat as an example. American women are often fat. Sorry if I have offended anyone but it is a simple truth. For almost anyone who has not been to America before - just travel around say California for a little while. The food portions and fat/sugar content are enormous and it shows in the people - particularly the women.


Actually, California women are generally in better shape than most parts of the country. So you can imagine how some other areas are. Or did you see just the worst element of CA?


Posted by: clark

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjf
pity your choice of words,i don't see anyone demeaning or degradeing women,simply offering there opinion as is there right wether you agree or not.
everyone sees life differently & as this forum revolves around russia ,it is fair to say opinions will revolve around rw's & the fact that most who have suceeded or are looking do so because they are disalusioned about females in general from there own countries.
so it also stands to reason that these guys,me included will talk about there personal experiance with women from there own countries.
have i noticed any differences between these women
then my answer is yes but then i'm biased as i married 1 & i'm extremly happy


Bob...did you marry your wife because she is Russian or because she is a wonderful woman? I stand by my choice of words because it is demeaning and degrading to catorgorize and stereo-type American women as Fat, uncaring, materialistic, blah blah blah. I am very well aware that this is a forum of FSU and western relationships. This doesn't negate the fact that there are perceptions on this forum that are untrue. Is that "just" my opinion? Maybe so.

Does the fact that some guys are disillusioned and have had bad personal experiences with women from thier own country make such statements about those women true? Absolutely not. Personally, I believe to agree with such statements only helps to perpetuate and fuel these misconceptions. What man hasn't experienced rejection? Most of us get up, dust our pants off and get over it.

There are many threads where the writers believe FSU women are superior, genetically and otherwise to western women. There are also many threads on this same forum whereas men feel they have been betrayed/cheated/scammed by FSU women. Do we also take that stereo-typing misconception for broadsweeping generalizations as well? If so, in that case ALL FSU women are scammers and cheats.

I came to this forum seeking infomation and did find it helpful in many ways. I also find it very disturbing that much of the information is riddled with demeaning overtones to american women. I take this to heart and offense because my mother is one as is my daughter. Not to mention the literally thousands of american women I personally know, this is simply not the case.

I have come to realize that perhaps the men making such statements have serious issues of thier own. I do not feel comfortable considering advice from such obviously disturbed individuals. I do not believe all men seeking a FSU partner is disturbed or has some serious social problems. But if many men that do infact go to Russia seeking a wife carries this particular attitude discussed, God help the FSU women. Another reason and no wonder americans are getting a bad reflection abroad. For that reason I believe I will bow out of the forum and give it a break. Most likely permanant, although my search will continue. There is some wonderful stories, both successes and failures. There also seems to some wonderful people. But this negative side and dissing of american women I am through with. cest la vie


Posted by: Cheburashka

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
For that reason I believe I will bow out of the forum and give it a break. Most likely permanant, although my search will continue. There is some wonderful stories, both successes and failures. There also seems to some wonderful people. But this negative side and dissing of american women I am through with. cest la vie


Hold on there Clark!!! Because you don't want to participate in the AW bashing, you will leave the whole forum? Why?

Why not just do what I do: seldom if ever venture into areas like this one. There are plenty of great areas of Russian culture discussed on this board without there being the "RWs are great, AWs are evil" endless threads.

You have much to offer many members of the board. Don't leave. Stay, and post in other areas. Think about it. Head over to music or politics....


Posted by: Leprechaun

Maybe we should start a bash WW section, it can be a dot, hidden deep in the nether regions of the deepest pages of the forum. =o)


Hey Clark, just because I don't like the coffee creams doesn't mean I throw out the whole box of chocolates (does that sound like a Forrest gump quote)

Don't let something like that make you leave here.


Posted by: Dave_N_Elvira

Quote:
Originally Posted by youlek
All women are the same. It is a myth that Russian women are more family oriented. They were 20 years ago.
It all depends what person your spouce is


And you form this basis on exposure to how many countries? Fact is women are not the same the world over despite whatever song or book lead you to believe this. In places like the US, Aussie and Western Europe you will find women putting a lot more emphasis into career. Many are very career driven and will sacrifice things like family and relationships to achieve their goal. The majority of Eastern European women on the other hand are still interested in a career will not sacrifice a relationship or family over career. To most, raising a family is most important to them and a career secondary. This is why they are more family orientated. Its not a spousal thing, in a cultural thing. Western Culture is not as family orientated as Eastern European culture.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Let's just call it a matter of opinion. I don't think anyone is stating a fact ... it is their opinion about WW or RW. When it comes to opinions, you will always create a comotion because everyone has one ...... agree to disagree on this one guys.


Posted by: nocomfortzone

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
Let's just call it a matter of opinion. I don't think anyone is stating a fact ... it is their opinion about WW or RW. When it comes to opinions, you will always create a comotion because everyone has one ...... agree to disagree on this one guys.



It is my opinion that you need to visit Lips after your comments on the cricket :-)


Posted by: GoeastLJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_N_Elvira
And you form this basis on exposure to how many countries? Fact is women are not the same the world over despite whatever song or book lead you to believe this. In places like the US, Aussie and Western Europe you will find women putting a lot more emphasis into career. Many are very career driven and will sacrifice things like family and relationships to achieve their goal. The majority of Eastern European women on the other hand are still interested in a career will not sacrifice a relationship or family over career. To most, raising a family is most important to them and a career secondary. This is why they are more family orientated. Its not a spousal thing, in a cultural thing. Western Culture is not as family orientated as Eastern European culture.


But is it just culture? I think there are many external factors including the degree of equality between the genders and the country's economic success. There is this tendency in the developed countries (west) to think that housewives are dumb, and no wonder women become career minded. Where in the west would you find a woman with higher education choosing to spend her entire life as a housewife? Some anthropology woman argued that the intellectual level of most western countries will drop with time because the most intelligent women do not pass on their genes as they chase their career ambitions...

The attached article was in the Iht yesterday and fits in nicely into this debate. http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/21/news/brides.php


Posted by: firemansam

To answer the question directly.....

WHY NOT?


Posted by: bobjf

[QUOTE=clark]Bob...did you marry your wife because she is Russian or because she is a wonderful woman? I stand by my choice of words because it is demeaning and degrading to catorgorize and stereo-type American women as Fat, uncaring, materialistic, blah blah blah. I am very well aware that this is a forum of FSU and western relationships. This doesn't negate the fact that there are perceptions on this forum that are untrue. Is that "just" my opinion? Maybe so.

i married my wife not because she is russian but because she exibited qualities that seem to have gone out the window in western society.
were tha almighty ,dollar or job have taken the place of family values,my wife is extremly well educated & could easily get a well paid job but as she says family is more important than any job or money
perceptions are in the eye of the beholder & there opinions are just as valid as yours.

we will agree to disagree


Posted by: bobjf

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
I have come to realize that perhaps the men making such statements have serious issues of thier own. I do not feel comfortable considering advice from such obviously disturbed individuals. I do not believe all men seeking a FSU partner is disturbed or has some serious social problems. But if many men that do infact go to Russia seeking a wife carries this particular attitude discussed, God help the FSU women. Another reason and no wonder americans are getting a bad reflection abroad. For that reason I believe I will bow out of the forum and give it a break. Most likely permanant, although my search will continue. There is some wonderful stories, both successes and failures. There also seems to some wonderful people. But this negative side and dissing of american women I am through with. cest la vie


so if anyone choses to disagree with your perceptions there automaticly disturbed indevidualls with serious issues of there own
i concider my wifes view that most western woman would soon be out in the snow in russia a more valid opinion than that which you chose
everyone's opinion is as valid as yours


Posted by: Kathy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_N_Elvira
And you form this basis on exposure to how many countries? Fact is women are not the same the world over despite whatever song or book lead you to believe this. In places like the US, Aussie and Western Europe you will find women putting a lot more emphasis into career. Many are very career driven and will sacrifice things like family and relationships to achieve their goal. The majority of Eastern European women on the other hand are still interested in a career will not sacrifice a relationship or family over career. To most, raising a family is most important to them and a career secondary. This is why they are more family orientated. Its not a spousal thing, in a cultural thing. Western Culture is not as family orientated as Eastern European culture.


Most women in the US are not working in high power careers. Many run businesses from their homes, so they can be with their children. Others work in pink collar jobs because they need to work in order to make ends meet. US wages have been flat since the 1970's, and in fact, the average family is worse off now than it was 30 years ago, in terms of income.

Western European women have far less "high career" mobility than Americans, due largely, it is believed, to the generous social programmes. In Sweden, only one in four women move to positions similar to those of men in business, law, medicine, higher education, etc. compared to 45% in the US. Sociologists attribute this to generous stay at home programmes for young mothers.

In Ukraine right now, there are about 100,000 "orphans", most of them dumped by their "family oriented" Eastern European mothers. The situation in Russia is even worse. These numbers are far higher, proportionately, than in the West. Part of this is due to social insecurity, and part to a culture of alcohol. In Western Ukraine, many parents leave their children behind to go work in Poland, the Czech Republic, and sometimes Western Europe. These children often end up on the streets. It has become such a large social issue that it has been raised in parliament, and Ukrainian officials are trying to establish schools for these children, who are suspicious of, and hence avoid, orphanages. It is also discussed frequently in Ukraine's press.

I am a professional woman, earning a six figure salary. I work with both men and women. Almost all the women I work with have children, and are family oriented. We all earn less than our male counterparts, largely because we take time off to bear children and stayed home with them when they were babies. We don't do as much business development as men, and therefore, earn less. We tend to come into the office earlier and leave earlier in order to take care of family duties. Frankly, I think the assertion that Western women are less devoted to family is bunk and it demeans the lives of millions of Western women who work very hard to make ends meet and put their children first. That included "professional" women, who certainly don't, for the most part, have the career advancement or success of Western men.

I could recount countless stories of my experiences with Ukrainian women who were less than family oriented - who partied, who locked their kids in closets while they partied, who couldn't cook, or clean. Generalizations are just that, and are largely irrelevant.


Posted by: Kathy

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjf
so if anyone choses to disagree with your perceptions there automaticly disturbed indevidualls with serious issues of there own
i concider my wifes view that most western woman would soon be out in the snow in russia a more valid opinion than that which you chose
everyone's opinion is as valid as yours


That's not what he posted. What he posted was his perception that men slag on Western women as somehow inferior, which quite frankly, is ludicrous. He also noted these views come from the posters' perceptions based on their own experiences.

In your case, so you had an unhappy marriage. Too bad, but you chose that woman for some reason. But remember, you can't clap with one hand.

You eventually moved on and found happiness. That is great. It doesn't mean every woman in your country is a shrew. You chose your first wife for a reason.

As for comments on FSU, Ukrainians say "kozna zhaba svoyu boloty khvalit'". That is what applies here.

Your wife's opinion is just that. An opinion based on her own subjective experiences. Most Russian men would not throw their wives in the snow. I knew men, both in Russia and Ukraine, whose wives drank, and when the couples divorced, the man gave up the apartment and just moved on.


Posted by: vic2012

I don’t know why people are getting hot under the collar. There’s nothing wrong with British or American women in general.

It simply boils down to equations.

Prior to looking east for a partner, I had six months on a major British dating site - for just two responses! (even the fat ones weren’t interested).

Then, by accident, I found Anastesiaweb and joined and suddenly I was getting ten beautiful women every day after me. (O.K. Forget this last bit. We all know about Anestasia)!!!

But, back to the equations. There are simply more available women in Russia, many with higher ideals yet, lower aspirations. And, there appears to be less competition for these girls.

So. on one side of the equation, you can stay home, take it easy and get slim pickings.
Or, on the other side, you get off your a*se, you write a lot, you talk a lot, you spend a lot and you make a lot of journeys half way round the world . But, your chances have increased ten fold, or more.

It’s not easy, but it’s very interesting, exciting and, the rewards can be fantastic.

And, another thing. When I speak, on the phone to my Fiancé, she has a plumy, deep, rich voice that doesn’t match her looks. But, THAT accent. It makes me weak at the knees (anyone seen ‘A Fish called Wanda‘). No western women has ever done that for me!


Posted by: markgm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy
Most women in the US are not working in high power careers. Many run businesses from their homes, so they can be with their children. Others work in pink collar jobs because they need to work in order to make ends meet. US wages have been flat since the 1970's, and in fact, the average family is worse off now than it was 30 years ago, in terms of income.

Western European women have far less "high career" mobility than Americans, due largely, it is believed, to the generous social programmes. In Sweden, only one in four women move to positions similar to those of men in business, law, medicine, higher education, etc. compared to 45% in the US. Sociologists attribute this to generous stay at home programmes for young mothers.

In Ukraine right now, there are about 100,000 "orphans", most of them dumped by their "family oriented" Eastern European mothers. The situation in Russia is even worse. These numbers are far higher, proportionately, than in the West. Part of this is due to social insecurity, and part to a culture of alcohol. In Western Ukraine, many parents leave their children behind to go work in Poland, the Czech Republic, and sometimes Western Europe. These children often end up on the streets. It has become such a large social issue that it has been raised in parliament, and Ukrainian officials are trying to establish schools for these children, who are suspicious of, and hence avoid, orphanages. It is also discussed frequently in Ukraine's press.

I am a professional woman, earning a six figure salary. I work with both men and women. Almost all the women I work with have children, and are family oriented. We all earn less than our male counterparts, largely because we take time off to bear children and stayed home with them when they were babies. We don't do as much business development as men, and therefore, earn less. We tend to come into the office earlier and leave earlier in order to take care of family duties. Frankly, I think the assertion that Western women are less devoted to family is bunk and it demeans the lives of millions of Western women who work very hard to make ends meet and put their children first. That included "professional" women, who certainly don't, for the most part, have the career advancement or success of Western men.

I could recount countless stories of my experiences with Ukrainian women who were less than family oriented - who partied, who locked their kids in closets while they partied, who couldn't cook, or clean. Generalizations are just that, and are largely irrelevant.


Kathy there are many contributing factors to this in Ukraine , alcohol, aids, death of parents is the biggest one and with a population of 48 million this is low compared to some other countries.
Just in state foster care alone America has 500,000 orphans so your figures compared to the west are way off.
This does not include the rest of the orphans in other institutions and on the streets.

If you would like to reference this material see below:

Who Will Care for Me? The Debate of Orphanages Versus Foster Care

Joanne O'Sullivan and Maria F. McMahon
Policy, Politics, & Nursing Practice, 5 2006; vol. 7: pp. 142 - 148.

And i f you were to research this further including the child welfare of America reports, Unicef, and the childrens defence fund of America there are some disturbing figures.

The average age of the homeless in the USA is 9.
Three US children die every day as a result of abuse or neglect.
Children in the US are owed US$34 billion in unpaid child support.
20% of all America's children live below the poverty line; 43.8% of America's black children live below the poverty line.
A gun takes the life of a child every 2 hours in the USA; 50,000 children were killed by firearms between 1979 and 1991 - same as US casualties in the Vietnam War.
6,042 Children are arrested every day in the USA.
4,000 Children in the USA will be murdered by their parents this year.
1.3 Million US children run away from violence or rape every year.

40% Of murdered children were in the legal custody of social services at the time.

But even though the above figures look extreme they do not compare to the figures from African countries or Asian countries.

Australia also has some alarming figures in all of this as well.


Posted by: GoingToRussia