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Very disappointing aspects of the Russian Culture
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Posted by: Moneer81

Prevet everyone,

Russia is indeed a great culture and respectful people. However, there are certain aspects that make the idea of me moving there seem scary. The thing that bothers me the most about Russia is the whole sex industry and the sexual images you see everywere you go. I was aware of this, but today I downloaded some video clips for a popular russian band called "Propaganda" (:: PROPAGANDA / ПРОПАГАНДА :: - официальный сайт) and I was horrified with by what I saw! I am assuming those video clips are played on TV channels throughout Russia but they were full of obscene sexual images, sleazy dances and sordid acts. I was really upset by what I saw. Why don't they have a russian FCC like in the US? I wonder if Russia will ever manage to stick to a stricter code of ethics and get rid of such shameful images that you can see everywhere in the media and of course, on the streets of Russian towns and cities.

Posted by: swindoom

What right does the US have to impose it morals and ethics on another sovereign country, especially when it is the worlds biggest producer of pornography.

Posted by: Moneer81

I am not saying that the US has to impose anything on Russia, but I wish things in Russia were a little different. Seriously, it is scary to raise kids over there with that kind of environment.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneer81

I am not saying that the US has to impose anything on Russia, but I wish things in Russia were a little different. Seriously, it is scary to raise kids over there with that kind of environment.

Which brings us back to Swins point. I have a question for you now, would you prefer to bring a kid up in the US considering its apparent moral code of conduct allows the worlds biggest pornography industry. Don't forget, even Presidents have been known to engage in some failry lewd acts in the Oval Office and he should have been

for his attitude with the truth..

Which reminds me, I have always wanted to know, what is behind the green door?

Posted by: Moneer81

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

for his attitude with the truth..

Which reminds me, I have always wanted to know, what is behind the green door?

Well I do agree that the moral code of conduct in the US is in bad shape as well. I guess sexual deviance is a common problem everywhere. The difference is that in countries like the US it is a little more controlled. True, there is a lot of pornography and whatnot in the US but it is regulated, and it is accessible only if you want it. But in some places in Europe and Russia it seems like you can't protect yourself from it, it is everywhere. Sexuality is a human need but like most other needs, it needs to be controlled and regulated. But to answer your question, I guess Yes it will be safer to raise a kid in the US where the kid's exposure to that kind of debauchery would be minimal.

Posted by: swindoom

I disagree that raising a child in the US is automatically safer, there are definitely parts of the US that I find disagreeable because of there puritanical and overtly religious influence on everyday life. All countries have good things and bad things about them but these depend on your point of view.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Swin I respect your opinion but I disagree with you on the basis that being overtly religious is not a bad thin but being a hypocrit is the issue. Treat people like adults and let them choose what they do, as long as it doesn't affect others then there should be no problem, but when it does affect others there is a big problem.

I myself would never bring a kid up in the US, not because it is bad or worse than anwhere else, but because Australia is the best place on the planet

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Actually I am about to keep going, what I find disappointing is peoples ability to judge others simply because they are different to them. Why people cant just accept others as they are is beyond me, what is the major issue? Learn off others and maybe we could do something about the crap that happens on this planet between cultural groups. There is always someone who thinks they are better than others simply because they dont have a clue about the others anyway. Russia has porn SO WHAT, America has porn SO WHAT, use your adult ability to LOOK AWAY.

Posted by: ira156

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneer81

Its funny Moneer, in places like russia, sweden germany ect and yes Australia the attitudes to sex are much less inhibited than in the US...we had full nudity on TV in the 70's. I the US it is not regulated.....ITS CONTROLLED. You pump out more porn than anywhere in the world...take your kids for a walk in many cities and you will pass streetwalkers...peep shows strip clubs ect ect. And you cannot protect yourself from it! Sex on russian...or for that matter Australian TV is extremely easy to control.....CHANGE THE CHANNEL. In the cities here where brothels are legal you dont have the streetwalkers or peep shows that you have in many US cities...the brothels are licenced...girls given regular health checks...and tested for drugs. When you sweep it under the carpet or try to hide it away you only leave it open to further exploitation, drug and health issues ect ect. The US or you as an indivdual has no right to tell another person what is morally right or wrong...let alone a whole country. Because of the voting power in the US of the bible belt your government places these narrow minded principles on the rest of the counrty all the while letting the porn industry thrive. If your morals are such that you feel that the debauchery around you is so bad you can always move to a counrty like Yemen or Saudi Arabia where you only have to look at women covered from head to toe. I am not questioning your morals on a personal level as i have no right to, but because mine or someone else's dont agree with yours doesnt give you the right to question ours either. The solution is simple change the channel...delete the filmclip you downloaded.....and just dont let your kids watch things you dont feel are apropriate.

Posted by: Moneer81

Quote:

Originally Posted by swindoom

I disagree that raising a child in the US is automatically safer, there are definitely parts of the US that I find disagreeable because of there puritanical and overtly religious influence on everyday life. All countries have good things and bad things about them but these depend on your point of view.

And that was going to be my next point. I am very leery of the influence of the religious institutions, namely christianity in the US. One thing that I really like about Russia is the very limited existence of religious institutions and the whole baggage that comes with them. This was one of the results of all those years of communism I guess. Elaborating on the advantages and disadvantages of every country will take volumes, but as far as the issue in question (sexual deviancy), I still think Russia and the Russians need to make some progress on that.

Posted by: Moneer81

Quote:

Originally Posted by ira156

You might be thinking of places like LA or Miami. For the most part, in the smaller cities and in the countryside, things are different. And I wish the solution was as easy as just turning the channel! I might be an adult, but a young child or a teenager, their hormones going through the roof, can't control themselves! they will be overwhelmed by those images. They will become part of that lifestyle. They will also start viewing women as sexual objects. They will dive into promiscuous sex, STD's, unwanted pregnancies. How is it hard to see the dangers of this "sexual freedom"????

Please don't look at this from a religious point of view. I DO NOT by any means belong to or believe in any faith system, but I believe in the importance of controlling one's insticts and physical desires. We're talking here about virtue, but what is virtue? I don't mean to digress into philosophical subjects but I think this is worthwhile discussing. Virtue is not what a certain law or "holy" book tells you, the word virtue comes from the latin word "virtus" meaning strength, valor. It is our strength that makes us virtuous, as opposed to our weakness that renders us mere slaves of our passions and instincts. And I think that this is the big difference between someone who is enslaved by those needs, thus becoming an overweight alcoholic sex addict (sorry if I just offended anyone who is overweight, alcoholic or a sex addict), and someone who has enough VIRTUS to completely rise above those animalistic desires.

And this makes me very worried about the Rouskis. We (I am half russian by the way, actually Tatar) have always displayed the most courage and VIRTUS throughout history, but what is happening now? Except for the two centuries under the Mongol rule, no other nation or race was able to subdue the Russians which tells us a lot about the spirit of this nation. So seeing this indulgence and debauchery is indeed a scary thing. I just hope that things are not as bad as I think they are. I am sure Russia has a lot of good men and women, and hopefully they will lead the way for moral prosperity and honor.

Posted by: ira156

Moneer, i didnt relate the religion to you i said morals ( vitue ) their your beliefs.....and you have the right to them. But how do screen your kids from the US MTV....US TV shows...magazines...music the net ect ect. It amazes me that many in the US ( i dont refer directly to you ) have this hang up about sex on TV or in the movies...yet are fine with letting their kids watch people blow each others brains out????? I am more worried about a nation that has the type of firearms laws and violence problems that the US does than one that has scanty women in video music clips. So what do we do ...ban all movies tv and music clips that show women in a fashion that you dont find apropriate not only in Russia but in the US and just about everywhere else in the world. Do we destroy all nude paintings and sculpture?? Do we lock up our kids until they are of an age that you feel is ok to let them out in the world?? Or do we set an example and teach them the morals that we believe are imporant in life and let them make their own minds up when the time comes?? The only option is a puritanical society like that of the Taliban or Pol Pot. The hormones will be there even if the film clips arent...trust me i have 4 kids and if it isnt film clips ect...it will be a Tv ad or a girl at school ect ect....... teach them whats appropriate and why it is. Just look at the US...your public TV channels are very sensored...yet the porn channels and dvds ect are the most abundant in the world.....sensoring or hiding things just increases the interest in them. Cheers

Posted by: swindoom

Thinking Russia and Russian people are more sexually deviant and less virtuous than the US is totally incorrect.

Posted by: Cheburashka

Well you guys are MOSTLY right. US produces most of the world's porn simply because we are better marketers. If Denmark and Sweden did a better job of marketing their products than Seventeen and companies like that would be as big as Hustler and Playboy. Maybe they should take a tip from Saab and Volvo. Russia and Ukraine still produces most of the child porn in the world. Fact!

In my opinion, everyone is missing the crux of the matter. A GOOD PARENT shouldn't be afraid of raising a child anywhere on earth!!!!! If a parent can't be open, honest, and communicative regularly with their children, then they would be afraid of leaving their children to the ways of the world. If a parent mentors their children, then the children have a better chance of making quality decisions that effect the course of their life. To say that teens can't control their hormones is utter cr@p. And to blame a country based on what is being produced in LA and New York is also hogwash.

I understand where you are coming from Moneer. The first time I saw a music video in Moscow on TV with full hard core sexual insertion..I was shocked also. But there is a lot that shocks me...not just in Russia.

And I wish you guys would quit raggin' on the Christians. Maybe it's time to start trashing you atheists out there. They have done more damage than we have ever done if one takes accurate score.

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneer81

Prevet everyone,

Russia is indeed a great culture and respectful people. However, there are certain aspects that make the idea of me moving there seem scary. The thing that bothers me the most about Russia is the whole sex industry and the sexual images you see everywere you go. I was aware of this, but today I downloaded some video clips for a popular russian band called "Propaganda" (:: PROPAGANDA / ПРОПАГАНДА :: - официальный сайт) and I was horrified with by what I saw! I am assuming those video clips are played on TV channels throughout Russia but they were full of obscene sexual images, sleazy dances and sordid acts. I was really upset by what I saw. Why don't they have a russian FCC like in the US? I wonder if Russia will ever manage to stick to a stricter code of ethics and get rid of such shameful images that you can see everywhere in the media and of course, on the streets of Russian towns and cities.

I don't think that putting sex in the closet and pretending that it does not exist, will add more morals and ethics to society. Russians already tried that in Soviet Union, and there were more hypocrisy (sp?) as ever.

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneer81

And I wish the solution was as easy as just turning the channel! I might be an adult, but a young child or a teenager, their hormones going through the roof, can't control themselves! they will be overwhelmed by those images. They will become part of that lifestyle. They will also start viewing women as sexual objects. They will dive into promiscuous sex, STD's, unwanted pregnancies. How is it hard to see the dangers of this "sexual freedom"????

The solution from problems with promiscuous sex, STDs, unwanted pregnaciees, etc. should not be solely put on the shoulders of media. The solution is bringing a sound sexual education programs into Russian schools, and talking about those problems honestly and with an open mind. Unfortunately, due to the rising of Russian Orthodox Church, and lack of overall education in this area even among Russian adults, they prefer to let children learn about sex from the music videos than from discussing it at schools and at home.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Russia and Ukraine still produces most of the child porn in the world. Fact!

Not being smart but can you prove that statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

And to blame a country based on what is being produced in LA and New York is also hogwash.

Yet you are willing to blame Russia and Ukraine for what happenin a few of their cities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

And I wish you guys would quit raggin' on the Christians. Maybe it's time to start trashing you atheists out there. They have done more damage than we have ever done if one takes accurate score.

Well Cheb I also disagree here as well simply because if you profess to have the 'right way' to do tings and live life then you should be seen to practise what you preach. Unfortunately when so many American preachers are cut down in their prime time ministries for deviat behaviour it doesn't look good when these guys are the spokespersons for so many of the American Christians telling everyone that everything else is wrong or bad.

Oh BTW wars and cleansings that have been sanctioned by 'christian' authorities have done more damage to this planet than anything else. In the name of christianity more people have died than in the name of anything else. I really think we have to put up with the raggin' simply because as a group we have dished so much out. Turn the other cheek brother.

Posted by: Cheburashka

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Not being smart but can you prove that statement.

Absolutely! But do you really want to hijack this thread to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Yet you are willing to blame Russia and Ukraine for what happenin a few of their cities.

Dude, have you lost your mind. What am I blaming Russia for? I generally defend them on this forum. I think you are just trying to pick a fight and it's not going to work. Last time you and your sidekick deccie tried that you whined like a new born baby. Count me out!

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Oh BTW wars and cleansings that have been sanctioned by 'christian' authorities have done more damage to this planet than anything else. In the name of christianity more people have died than in the name of anything else. I really think we have to put up with the raggin' simply because as a group we have dished so much out. Turn the other cheek brother.

Now I know you have lost your mind. Rome, Genghis Kahn, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, African and Aboriginal genocide,..and I could go on and on. If you believe that true Christians have caused more damage to the planet than nonbelievers you would have to be insane. I don't think you really believe that. And why would anyone want to throw their fellow believers under the bus like that. Remind me to be in a foxhole with someone else. We are a force for good and always have been. Go spend some time working at a homeless shelter and you might change your perspective on who is doig the real damage out there.

PS: Better learn what Jesus meant by turning the other cheek. It was never a sign of weakness or submission. It was an act of defiance to Roman law. Search it out. You might be surprised what would happen if a Roman striked somebody twice or with the back of the hand.

I'll not let this thread be hijacked my anyone who wants to go down the "God road". This is a discussion about Russian culture from Moneer's perspective.

Carry on Moneer! I'm outta here.

Posted by: ira156

Hey Cheb, im not judging christians or any other religion. But neither does any religious group have the right to do likewise. People bag the cathoilc church but just look at much of the good they do. Society's values are set by just that Society. Lawmakers and govenments can restrict things all they want ...but if society as a whole wont except it ....it wont happen...EG the US porn or even look at proabition. YOU ARE 100% correct Cheb....parents need to take responsability...as i said in my post they are the ones that set the example and moral standards for their children. SEX is a natural part of who we are...without it none of us would be here. If i was raising children in the US i would be more worried about them watching a TV show, movie or video game with wanten violence....not sex. Weather we are religious or not we all have our own set of morals...associate yourself and children with likeminded people and avoid those who's morals dont fit in with yours. Dont let your kids watch the programes that you dont approve of...change the channel....and discuss sex with them at an appropriate age...dont expect the schools to thats a real cop out. STDs and unwanted pregnancies are not because of sex they are because of ingnorance..

Posted by: MikdeeTx

My feeling on this is..allow what you will allow within your realm. Leave the rest for the vultures outside of it. That's what they do in Russia, Europe, Canada and elsewhere. The US has too much bureaucracy and the FCC is a prime example of going against what the Constitution stands for - Freedom of Speech. So instead of pointing out how our First Amanedment rights are being trampled upon, we create agencies to deal with it by squashing the competition.

As far as religion goes, doesn't the Hindu religion promote the Karma Sutra? The word religion is in itself a misconstrued word. I literally means from the Latin "to bind again." I am a Christian and I read my Bible but I do not attend an Americanized version of what qualifies as a church. Rev. Ted Haggard is a fine example of this hypocrisy.

Posted by: Moneer81

very interesting comments. I just want to mention to Ira and everyone else, that of course no one wants an extremely sexually repressed environment like Saudi Arabia (that has an extremely high rate of homosexuality) or Taliban. But why can't we have something in between? is it just either complete sexual indulgence or total repression?

And I am not only concerned about the issue of raising kids in such an environment. I just gave that as an example but yes Cheb you are right, a good parent can raise a child anywhere. But the most important concern was probably what I talked about in my last post about how sexual indulgence is a sign of degeneration and loss of "virtus" and self control. That for represents the most dangerous aspect of this problem. And I wish we can address that issue because that is indeed a bad reputation for the Russian good character.

We can also start a different thread about god and atheism, but I would like to mention real quick that it is not an exaggeration to say that lots of souls vanished in the name of some god, whether it was through christianity or judaism and of course islam. but Cheb please don't think that whoever committed attrocities and were not christian then that puts them in our camp and hence they share the same beliefs with all the other atheists. By the way hitler considered himself a pious christian and he mentioned many times in his book that he was on a holy mission and always talked about Providence, etc. But yeah we can talk about this somewhere else, I might be interested in a "faith vs. atheism" debate.

Posted by: mark38668

im new to all this and it was my understanding,that the word sex in Russia
was something that one would never say,i mean i no porn is a very big
here in the U.S but ,i thought that russia was nothing like that, as far as ,
sex,porn and ect.but look's like i was very wrong?
can someone help me understand this better?

Posted by: ira156

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneer81

very interesting comments. I just want to mention to Ira and everyone else, that of course no one wants an extremely sexually repressed environment like Saudi Arabia (that has an extremely high rate of homosexuality) or Taliban. But why can't we have something in between? is it just either complete sexual indulgence or total repression?

And I am not only concerned about the issue of raising kids in such an environment. I just gave that as an example but yes Cheb you are right, a good parent can raise a child anywhere. But the most important concern was probably what I talked about in my last post about how sexual indulgence is a sign of degeneration and loss of "virtus" and self control. That for represents the most dangerous aspect of this problem. And I wish we can address that issue because that is indeed a bad reputation for the Russian good character.

We can also start a different thread about god and atheism, but I would like to mention real quick that it is not an exaggeration to say that lots of souls vanished in the name of some god, whether it was through christianity or judaism and of course islam. but Cheb please don't think that whoever committed attrocities and were not christian then that puts them in our camp and hence they share the same beliefs with all the other atheists. By the way hitler considered himself a pious christian and he mentioned many times in his book that he was on a holy mission and always talked about Providence, etc. But yeah we can talk about this somewhere else, I might be interested in a "faith vs. atheism" debate.

Hey Moneer...ironically VIRTUS coming from the roman latin...the romans were one of the most promiscuous societies around. But Moneer do you really want society or the school system teaching your children what their virtues or values should be....i as sure as hell didnt. No my kids aren't perfect...and they aren't all doctors or lawyers and such.....but i have been fortunate enough to not have the drug problems, teenage pregnancies or criminal behaviour. A funny thing was my eldest son went into the army and after a while he had many of his mates come talking to him asking advice ect...he was wondering about why they did and asked one of them....the reply was you have morals and values.....in telling me he said ..." and i realised i got them from you dad" it was the greatest compliment i had ever had..and still brings a tear to my eye. I brought my kids into this world and they are my responsablity....but they are also their own person...we can only hope we have set a good enough example for them to base THEIR life on.

Posted by: nocomfortzone

It all sounds like a mixed bag to me like a lot of countries. I think some people are quick to jump to conclusions and got preconcieved ideas.

I got a resonable idea from my friend in Ukraine what impressions she had of western culture and of russian culture so i'll add them here and keep it relevant to the parts she was talking about woman/cultures in general, and skip anything i consider personal to her. She was obviously bring up the topic with me at one time to want to know what my opinions were, which i gave in time. Anyway it did not sound like there was much difference between what goes on in western and russian culture but it briedly had me alarmed she seemed to got the impression from somewhere that a lot of aussie woman sleep with a guy after knowing him one day which is certainly not true in general but like anywhere people have different idea of sexuality to themself.

"I mentioned something about differences in culture before and I know that the sooner we will talk about it, the better. I only hope that you will not find my views strange, some people think I am old fashioned though I think I am not, I can understand and accept a lot of new ideas, but I was raised in a way when moral values are very strong, my parents taught me to respect myself. Here people can rush into relationships too, but from what I heard about your country, I may be mistaken, there are strange ideas about our country as well, or for example about Russia, there was a TV program where people were asked what they know about this country, I was laughing when I heard everybody thought Russians drink vodka every day in large quantity, that bears run in the streets free and things like that, so maybe you will laugh at my ideas as well. I heard that women in your country can agree to very intimate relationships not knowing a person very well, after a day of being acquainted. I hope that I am wrong, but there are girls in this country that are like that too though I just can’t understand them. What can a man think about a woman who has sex with him at his first word about it after a couple of hours since they have heard each other’s names? I doubt that he will ever call her back, if she has agreed to be that close to him, she may the same with others, where is the guarantee that she feels anything to him at all? I am absolutely different, I know that first dates should look more like friends meetings and if people do feel something, they need to wait a little, infatuation may go, I know that such kind of relationships, very passionate and at the first glance one has a feeling that emotions are very strong and deep but when there is no more lust, two people are disappointed in each other and it is even the best way, they are lucky if they didn’t go too far, when there are no kids, that they both didn’t feel anything like real love, as for one person it may be serious, for the other, it is just a game, sometimes nobody is to blame, as one has sincerely thought he felt real love and didn’t think he will not feel like he wants to spend the rest of his life with her, by the way, it is the same situation if we change the place of pronouns. So that’s why I think it is necessary to spend as much time as possible before making some serious decisions, I mean marriage, or in some cases, living together............................... he has to live with his partner’s actions, and physical attraction can help for some time, but if people don’t get along with each other, if they don’t have common views on very important things, as fidelity, the ways they spend their free time, the way they see their aims in life, will sex help? I think they will be too strangers, their sexual life may still be great but it seems to be the spiritual closeness is more important and it makes sex or love a miracle. I do believe we can have the best things in the world, love is one of them, but we should tell ourselves that we are worth it and that we can be happy, it may take a little bit more of efforts, time and patience but eventually we will be rewarded......................even just a kiss should be not just because it is customary to kiss, after the first date or not later than the second, holding hands should be meaningful, then it is hundred times more pleasant....................being very sensual, it is one of the things that makes life beautiful, but a woman always needs a little bit more time to feel she wants intimacy. "

Anyway reading her thoughts i think there is very little difference in general between western and russian woman on their thoughts on sexual side of relationships.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Absolutely! But do you really want to hijack this thread to do so.

No Cheb, but yet again you don't back up what you say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

EHy last time anyone tried to ask you something you got all deffensive and said "I'm outa here". And now you are getting insultingly childish. Yes you do generally defend the Russians in this forum as do I but I am not the person who claims, yet will not back up my claim with any concret evidence from a respected 3rd party source, that Russia and Ukraine has the biggest porn industry on the planet. What occurs in a few cities in Russia and Ukraine is what we are discussing. Oh BTW Deccie is not my sidekick he is a mature adult male who can think for himself and we often disagree but as adults we discuss our disagreements and back up our claims with verifiable info. If you wanna talk sidekicks lets just wheel out the old SamuraiBob and lets watch him go sucking up to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Now I know you have lost your mind.

Another childish insult. Onya Cheb keep it coming mate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Rome, Genghis Kahn, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, African and Aboriginal genocide,..and I could go on and on. If you believe that true Christians have caused more damage to the planet than nonbelievers you would have to be insane. I don't think you really believe that. And why would anyone want to throw their fellow believers under the bus like that. Remind me to be in a foxhole with someone else. We are a force for good and always have been. Go spend some time working at a homeless shelter and you might change your perspective on who is doig the real damage out there.

Ok dearest Chebster, Rome when it committed many of its worst atrocities was officially Christian (just so you understand I am refering to Rome in its intirety). Stalin modeled himself on Ivan 4 (you know the Terrible guy) who was a pious Orthodox Christian (well he believed so anyway) Stalin himself was an athiest (officially) but still looked up to the methods of Ivan 4. Hitler claimed to be christian, African genocide was and still is because of religion, guess what Christian Germany and then Belguim set up a system of HATE among the Hutu and Tutsi peoples and then sat back and watched them try to annialate each other. Aboriginal Australian Genocide again was backed buy 'christian' beliefs of the supremacy of WHITE MAN and the apparent naturalyl degraded state of anyone else. You remember the sons of HAM were supposed to be as black in the soul as they were of the skin. As for spending time in a homeless shelter I was a youthworker in western Sydney and on the NSW Central Coast. I have taken kids in who have been homeless. Justbecause you work in 2 continents doesn't mean you have the patent on good deeds and holyness. Unlike you I don't keep telling people about my background and I don't expect praise for the things I have done. I just go and do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

PS: Better learn what Jesus meant by turning the other cheek. It was never a sign of weakness or submission. It was an act of defiance to Roman law. Search it out. You might be surprised what would happen if a Roman striked somebody twice or with the back of the hand.

Cheb last time you told me to look something up that you had just looked up to prove you were correct I posted on here and PROVED WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT YOU WERE WRONG. Your abiity to see things way out of context strikes me as extremely funny. Turning the other cheek was not ONLY against Romans it was against anyone who is oppresive. Ghandi himself used the idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

I'll not let this thread be hijacked my anyone who wants to go down the "God road". This is a discussion about Russian culture from Moneer's perspective.

Carry on Moneer! I'm outta here.

Again you are running Cheb. May I humbly suggest if you don't wanna discss things themn don't post about them. It is extremely rude to expect others to read what you say and then not at least read or allow others to respond to your opinion. It smacks of pride and that is something you should well know you shouldn't have.

If you wan't I am happy to discuss Theology with you via PM or email.

Posted by: Pin Boy

here we go again....this is a good example of why i'm being turned off to this forum the last few months. also, i think khashyar's guiding hand is sorely missed 'round here.

pb

Posted by: Cheburashka

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

No Cheb, but yet again you don't back up what you say.

Sigh! OGL, there is absolutely no reason to change the course or intent of this thread. Seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

yet will not back up my claim with any concret evidence from a respected 3rd party source, that Russia and Ukraine has the biggest porn industry on the planet.

I never said that. I said CHILD porn. There is a difference. America produces more porn than anyone. Our porn revenues are greater that the total cash flow for all major sports teams and the big three televison networks COMBINED! (Here is documentation so you'll quit whining: Internet Pornography and Loneliness: An Association? Vincent Cyrus Yoder, Thomas B. Virden III, and Kiran Amin. Sexual Addiction & Compulsivity, Volume 12.1, 2005.)

Anyone with a search engine and half a brain can figure out for themselves the difference between porn and illegal child porn. It is ironic that when Ukrainian authorities raided the offices of LS magazine and BD magazines and confiscated all the child porn, it all went back up on the net again under control of the Ukrainian govt. If you really want to know that industry, go ahead and start doing research. I warn you, it's a dark world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Ok dearest Chebster, Rome when it committed many of its worst atrocities was officially Christian

Those good Christians Caligula and Nero. Get a clue. Rome wasn't Christian until Constantine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Stalin modeled himself on Ivan 4 (you know the Terrible guy) who ........

Yea, yea, blah, blah, blah..Christians are the bad guys. Whatever!

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Cheb last time you told me to look something up that you had just looked up to prove you were correct I posted on here and PROVED WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT YOU WERE WRONG.

I was working off the top of my head. In fact, I even told you I should go look it up. I was off by one generation. You win! I lose! What an awesome guy you are. I bow to your greatness and uber mental accumen!

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Against my better judgement I posted this reply. It has absolutely nothing to do with the course or nature of the thread. I have never said that a person can't respond to what I say. Ever! Rude? Me? Please! Rude is hijacking someone else's thread and wanting to debate theology. You are a debater Oz! And remember that debate is listed in Romans chapter one right between murder and deceit. (do I need to give you the "concrete evidence" you always ask for, or can you look that one up for yourself)

I'm not running from you Oz. I quit this discussion as the loser and having been vanquished by your greatness and magnitude. You are the Alpha male and I your subservient. This is my last response. Now can we please get back to things Russian?

Pin Boy is absolutely right!!!!! And I'm not going to play your game anymore Oz.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Regardless of Chebs opinions I have a right to respond publicly to his public comments. This is my public reply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Those good Christians Caligula and Nero. Get a clue. Rome wasn't Christian until Constantine.

Again you have lowered your high standards by resorting to rude and insulting statements. Tell people to get a clue and see how they will react. You forgot to include in your quote the WHOLE statement I made. Go ahead Cheb twist things around to suit your purpose you are good at that. See below what I wrote and NOTE that I incuded ALL of Rome meaning the Holy Roman Empire and the Catholic Church and its involvement in much of the Spanish Inquisition. I even said this in my original statment in tis thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Ok dearest Chebster, Rome when it committed many of its worst atrocities was officially Christian (just so you understand I am refering to Rome in its intirety).

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

If you wan't I am happy to discuss Theology with you via PM or email.

I posted this in the post to give you the opportunity to take this out of the thread anyway but you kept it going in the thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Sigh! OGL, there is absolutely no reason to change the course or intent of this thread. Seriously.

Hey Cheb I answered a valid question from Ade with a valid answer which you didn't like. Ade then replied as below, I didn't go off topic but you tried to argue a point and were proven wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ade

Hi Oz,

Thanks for the post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

I was working off the top of my head. In fact, I even told you I should go look it up.

No this is what you said and it indicated to me that you had ALREADY looked it up and you were still wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Check out Matthew 1:5. I had to go look it up.

Had Cheb is past tense meaning italready happened. SOrry if your stateent confused me but it was your statement and now you are saying something else entirely different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pin Boy

here we go again....this is a good example of why i'm being turned off to this forum the last few months. also, i think khashyar's guiding hand is sorely missed 'round here.

pb

Yes PinBoy you are correct but why are the Mods the only ones who are allowed to come out with insults and no-one else can say anything to another poster in reply to a quesion they ask. Sorry but some Mods here are really pushing boundaries that no-one else is allowed to and when someone treis to say something back THIS is what we get. wish Khashyar would come back because he has an amazingly calming influence on people.

Posted by: Moneer81

why can't we have differences but still argue and debate with no insults?

Posted by: ira156

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneer81

why can't we have differences but still argue and debate with no insults?

Isnt it amazing how someone with only a few posts can state the obvious. Cheb and OZ this is not a debate about religion....its a post about MORALS....individual morals and what we as indivduals find offends them....in this particular instance moneers take on the levels of sexuality thats in your face in different countries. Cheb did say child porn and i could see that quite clearly. Your right Cheb but that does not fit into Moneer's views as it is something that is not in your face as he is describing. I think you will find how so much of it comes from Russia, thailand, Phillipines , sri lanka ect.....but most of it goes to Europe the US and yes Australia. But this is not sexuality it is sexual deviance that all but the sickest individuals find abhorant.
Oz because you or i dont believe in a particular religion it is no reason to attack someone who does...it makes you as bad as a religious zealot who wants to enforce their beliefs on some one else. Individual morals will differ even between 2 christians who sit next to each other in church each Sunday. And even Moneer who started this thread states its not a religious point he is coming from. Moneer if there is a particular part of your city that has hookers and sleezy peep shows and crack heads...you avoid it. Its the same with the media...if you know after 8:00 pm that MTV shows clips that you deem offensive ...dont watch or let your kids watch it. I think it is because commercial TV in the US is so sensored that when you travel you can be quite shocked by other cultures. We have nude beaches here...you know where they are so if it offends you ...you just go to a different beach. these nudists dont do it for sexual reasons because if there is a perv there he will quickly be run off or the cops called. I cant quote stats...but i would wager that in the scandinavian countries where sexuality is exposed and explained to children at an early age...there would be less teen pregnancies, stds, and rapes.....it would be interesting to find out. Education not sensorship is the best way to influence our kids morals.

Posted by: Volga Trader

Quote:

Originally Posted by ira156

............................. I cant quote stats...but i would wager that in the scandinavian countries where sexuality is exposed and explained to children at an early age...there would be less teen pregnancies, stds, and rapes.....it would be interesting to find out. Education not sensorship is the best way to influence our kids morals.

I haven't got the stats either but amongst rich countries the US leads in teen pregnancies with the UK close behind. The lowest rates are in the Scandinavian countries and the Netherlands where sex is very open and there is very early sex education.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneer81

why can't we have differences but still argue and debate with no insults?

We can but when Mods get into doing it the whole ball game moves a few notches.

Ira, I will just respectfully say you know very little about me and you last post shows that. I respect your opinion but when it comes to the crunch I will reply when I have insults thrown at me, and I will reply with facts.

I have said it before and I will say it again I wil not shut up just because some people don't like my POV, I will remain as polite as they are but I will not take crap from anyone without right of reply.

BTW neither I nor Cheb brought religion into this, he made a statement which is his right voicing his feelings about people picking at christians, I simply replied to his statment. If you dont want religion involved then don't make any statements that could bring it in. Maybe we should cut Politicsl, Global Warming, genocide or any other topic that people go we at the knees with as well.

Funny I though free,but respectful, speech was a basic right in Democratic society, it is obvious that is not the case here.

Posted by: ira156

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Im sorry Oz but i found your remarks ( and i am in no way religious ) were just an attack on someones religion. It is either ill thought or even ignorant to label all people who are religious with the " religion started all the wars ect debate". The opinions put forward from the "faithful" here were related to the original post by Moneer. Not attacking!!!! If it gets into a slanging match im outta here ...which is a shame as i thought this was a very interesting thread....Cheers mate

Posted by: ira156

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volga Trader

Very True Volga, the key to me is not to make it a dirty or taboo subject as that only has 2 results it either makes it much more interesting to kids...or even worse gives them some SERIOUS sexual hangups......educate them in line with your own morals....it has worked for me...SO FAR

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by ira156

Don't be sorry but also be aware that I am talking about MY belief system. I was NOT attacking anything and anyone who took it as a personal attack should take step back and think to themselves why they thought that and why they personally hurt by what I said. I never started it yet I am the one who is being told to "get a clue" and Deccie who has not even posted in this thread was dragged into it by a Moderator who has accused me of trying to start a fight. Guess what I am tired of the childishness in the RMP and the accusations from people who are the ones who start issue and then run when they don't like what others are saying. I also never said religion started all the wars as you have posted above. I ask you if you don't want to get into slanging match why even misquote someone to make a point.

I for one am extremely offended at the attitude of some in the RMP, especially Mods who seem to get offended at the slightest thing that they don't agree with. If people are not willing to take something then they shouldn't dish it out.

Last but not least. I will not be an apologist for things that have happened that are indeed wrong. If MY country, religion, school, ethnic group etc does something I don't think is right or is indeed being hypocritical I will not defend it and I will speek against it. If people are offended with that I cannot help it. I will always provide a counter to what I see as wrong, it isn't argueing it is adult discussion until someone starts slinging insults around, and then again I will reply. It seems we can attack the idea of Communism, socialism, Islam or anything that we personally don't agree with but if someone disagrees with our POV then we start attacking them. What a good way to shut down democratic and adult discussion.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Russia and Ukraine still produces most of the child porn in the world. Fact!

An exerpt from this link http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2554

Child-porn ads--the bulk of which feature girls, some under 5--are pouring into e-mail in-boxes. The $3 billion global industry is concentrated in the U.S. and operates through temporary Web sites and online credit card payments.

http://www.protectkids.com/dangers/stats.htm Another site that has updates going through to 2005 but this is 2003 yet it still says America has more illegal porn than anywhere else and it is in the child porn section.

More than half of all illegal sites reported to the Internet Watch Foundation are hosted in the United States. Illegal sites in Russia have more than doubled from 286 to 706 in 2002 (National Criminal Intelligence Service, 8/21/03).

Some how I feel this implicates America more than any other country in the running and control of the child porn industry. Now can we stop blaming 'others' for what is actually in our own back yards.

Posted by: ira156

Bye Bye

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Last time you and your sidekick deccie tried that you whined like a new born baby.

For someone who supposedly doesn't insult people Cheb, I don't see the above comment as intended to be anything other than an insult.
There are many things Oz and I do not agree about and I am no-one's sidekick.

Again, the operational part of the word "moderation" seems lost on you.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by ira156

Bye Bye

See ya Ira, sad to see you go but it is your choice.

Honestly people I have had gut full of the double standards in the RMP and I know I am not the only one, I just wish the Mods would sortout what rules are going to be applied and actually apply them equally to themselves and everyone else.

Posted by: bobjf

for the last time
moderaters post as members & it is getting very convienant to have a go at someone because he or she has moderater along side his name,nowhere here did any mod pull so called mod abuse of rules,those that posted did so to voice there opinion. end of story ENOUGH
this thread is now closed