BCIS Receipt Notice - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

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BCIS Receipt Notice
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Posted by: Knight_Kadosh

Today was interesting; after some weeks of asking and searching I managed to locate 2 local churches that share their buildings with Russian speaking people. I was told to go see the local Russian delicatessen storeowner, for whatever reason I went there as told. Nice lady, she and her husband have been here for 4 years, the store they have is fairly new. Being from the Ukraine she seemed somewhat familiar with the Stavropol kray region, it was nice she expressed wanting to help, she understood what Lena and Evgeniya will be experiencing on a local level. I think it would be a good idea for us to have culturally diverse couples as friends. It is interesting that ultimately the church is where I located my answer, or at least where they congregate. I have no doubt I can receive some invaluable insight here. She seemed to find my story rather amusing, but understood just the same, she also asked if I was the sponsor, not exactly a word I expected to be brought up in our brief conversation, we then exchanged phone numbers. They suggested Sunday afternoons as a good time to come over since many drop in after church. I am excited; this is an opportunity for me to learn some language skills and cultural understanding. As a side note; I continue to plead my case to my local church leadership, they are beginning to cave in and soften their stance, I have been as transparent with them as possible from the very beginning. It really comes down to our way, or no way, they must decide. Thanks everyone for letting me share the good news. If this is how it feels now, I have no idea how you feel the closer you get, since it seems like an eternity away. The best news was receiving our 1st NOA.

Best regards,

Brian

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Brian...

Thanks for sharing your experiences...

Are you meeting your local Orthodox church leaders so that you can become a confirmed Orthodox so that you can marry in an Orthodox church?

I think somehow I will also need to receive the Orthodox church's approval when Lena and I marry in Belarus later...

That's great news about your first NOA from BCIS...

Keep us posted...

Khashyar

Posted by: Knight_Kadosh

Thanks Khashyar,

Not exactly, to the best of my knowledge, there are no Russian Orthodox churches in Lancaster County. However, I am finding people who understand and are certainly aware of many things I could not know, and they are willing to share their experiences and lend a hand when possible. This is what I found out today in my travels locally.

One of these buildings has been purchased outright, they have changed it’s signage to somewhat reflect the new ownership. This was the “Brickerville Grace Brethren Church”, now known as the “Brickerville Grace Fellowship Church; they are actually operating under the auspices of the “Embassy of God” in Kiev, Ukraine. http://www.godembassy.org

“The First Baptist Church of New Holland” is operating in a functional capacity to assist the local Russian population in various ways. I am unclear as to weather or not they are actually operating the church, or merely attending. http://www.newhollandfbc.org You can be sure I will find out.

There are several other church denominations operating in similar capacities that are just coming to my attention. I am not surprised to see people being plugged into these local churches and getting connected, since many can be major resources for networking, support and assistance. I must say that I have been treated with more respect and understanding then I would have been by the average local resident. I am told that many find their way to these churches because of loneliness, isolation and homesickness; many come with tears in their eyes, broken, and in need of friends and understanding. Perhaps like people who are drowning alone in a sea of despair, it is clear they want to help as many into the lifeboats as possible, doing life together makes a difference. Nothing compares to the greatness of knowing you are loved, and love. As stated before, there are no Russian Orthodox churches here in Lancaster County that I am aware of. I thought drinking various teas was a Turkish custom, but apparently I am wrong, seems it is a Russian custom also. I have been invited to attend a Sunday service at the Brickerville Grace Brethren church, and I look forward to going this coming Sunday. I get the feeling that it is rare for an outsider to take a personal interest in their church, or the value of their friendship. I am reassured that they understand and have in turn extended their friendship to me/us. There are also some children who are the around the same age as Evgeniya. Who can know for sure, perhaps I may even be of some assistance from time to time. It is amazing what you can find, if you only bother to take the time to seek it.

Brian

Posted by: ConnerVT

Orthodox Church parishes in PA

Posted by: Jim_FL

You are one smooth braddah hehe

Posted by: myshka

I want to start this with the comment that everytime I respond to Brian's post I feel I am percieved as being mean, or smart assed or something of that vein. I am not meaning anything I say in a mean way, just from the perspective of one who has done what you all are doing (marrying my Russian fiancee, who is my husband since I am a woman

and is much further down the road than you guys.

I just think that in general you need to learn more about the culture with which you are getting involved. Most likely your fiancee is "different" than the people you met at the store. There is a giant wave of Ukrainians who started coming to this country in the late '80s who were religious refugees. They were/are mostly Pentecostal Baptists (of varying degrees) They came to this country and then "sponsored" (that word that strikes fear in your heart) their relatives who were still in Ukraina. So in the intervening years since the late '80s we have religious and non religious newcomers. Most have been very industrious and many started businesses. You met one part of these people. They have nothing to do with the Orthodox religion and in reality, dont like it much. You noticed that the church would be the focus of their social life because as you know, it is a group of like minded people who came from the same situation and have all in common. If you meet people in a local Orthodox church, they will more likely be "old" immigrants who are (with some exception) generations removed from the old country. And trust me, PA is filled with Orthodox churches! Maybe you dont have any in Lancaster but go north or east and especially west of home and you will see their domes in almost every town! (long time since I lived in PA but even my small town of Palmerton had 2)

Ok, dont be surprised that the word "sponsored" came up in your brief conversation, it is a fact of life for the people you met. Once they are here, (sponsored by the family members who came before them) their major focus (besides adapting to a new life) is finding someone who can sponsor the family members still at home (since they cant yet because they dont meet the income guidelines) or working as hard as they can to become sponsors of the family left behind. It is a fact of life, so they dont fear it. In fact, I can almost guarantee that if you do get involved in any way with the church members, you will be asked to sponsor a family!

Ok, enough typing for now, please take these comments in the spirit they were given.

Posted by: Knight_Kadosh

The word Pentecostal did come up several times, as did the word Baptist, during our conversation, and I have no idea how they believe, and yes most are tapped out financially as far as they can get. I never suspected why I was being told this. You are also correct in that Lena is not much into that kind of thing, neither am I, to a point. I go for the people; personally I don’t care what their religion is, if the character traits that are present are good. I am single so most of my friends are single; it would seem normal for me to seek out other married people for us to visit, especially some who are culturally familiar to her and her daughter. I’m just trying to get things in order so she and her daughter may not feel so homesick. I cannot imagine what it is like to leave behind all your friends, relatives and all that you know for someone in another country, perhaps being the sponsor is the easy part. I merely wish to know I have done all I can to make this transition as easy as possible for them. I am committed to making this work and being prepared is a part of that. What do you suggest? I grow weary of churches eventually asking me for a commitment or other things of a binding nature resulting in curtailment of my freedom of choice. I like people and often change churches to cultivate additional friendships. I believe one should hope for the best, while being prepared for the worst. Part of being successful is being properly prepared. Three things you can count on, I am not a quitter, I am committed to making this work to the best of my ability, and I do love her for who she is. Again, talk to me, what do you suggest?

Posted by: myshka

I admire your commitment to making this thing work, dont get me wrong. I think maybe you are sometimes going in the wrong direction that is all.
I guess, what most of my answers to you are trying to do, is let you know that you can be in for a rude awakening!
You are very focused on church life, and unless your fiancee is very different than most, she will not be at all. In the former SU your life was not easy at all if you were identified as a church goer. (yes, I know, it can be different for grandmas but they were the majority of avid church goers) As for people from any age that you would be interested in, they steered clear of church. I think it is wonderful you want to be involved spiritually but for the USA as a culture, it is not unusual, for former SU, it is. And if you try to make your Lena be interested as you, it might be a conflict. She may be very spiritual but more than likely it will manifest itself in something different than a conventional church life or socializing within a church group. And I can tell you from almost 15 years experience in being involved with the Ukrainian Pentecostal/Baptist group in the US, they are extremely judgemental (I dont care if you think it is a generalization, it is a fact).
So be prepared for Lena to not feel as comfortable as you might want her to be.

Find an ESL group at your community college, she can take ESL there and will meet people. Let her phone home as much as you can possibly allow economically. Expect her to be homesick and have very different feelings about how a child is raised than you do. Single moms can be very indulgent with their only child, more so than you might be comfortable with. Let her use the internet to access Russian/Ukrainian news and chats.
If you can afford it, get DISH network and let her subscribe to the Russian channels.
I am not an expert but I have year and years more experience than you, so I am just offering suggestions, take them or leave them. If I think of any more I will post them as I think of them.

Posted by: Knight_Kadosh

Myshka,

I find that this information is definitely worth reading and very helpful to me. Thank you very much Myshka, and I really appreciate the input. I understand the situation much better now. Her mother is Russian Orthodox and she had mentioned this several times with some mild distaste. I merely passed it off as being an extremely traditional religion, and her preconceived notion of religion. I brought the subject up once and it was met with great resistance, again I passed it off as being referenced to an old religion. I now see she was setting precedence for her taste regarding such ideology. This will not be a problem now that you have shed some light on the situation. I am a little concerned about her daughter; she has been missing a significant amount of school off and on because of some type of stomach ailment that Lena claims is nothing major. She said most children have it. I hope it is nothing more then occasional “irritable bowel syndrome”. What is an ESL group? I also agree many church groups inflict some forms of rejection when you march to your own drum, rejection by those you trusted is not a very nice byproduct of their supposed unconditional love. I cannot believe we have to wait so long to be together, if not for the weekly phone calls I suspect I/we would never make it. I think it is amazing and speaks volumes regarding the character of a couple, who are in fact able to cut to the chase in such a short period of time, given the common realized goal and hope of their meeting. Not having the luxury of time requires a couple to progress at unprecedented speed regarding the more serious and none negotiable matters. One of the things I noticed was the lack of any game playing and our ability to being open and transparent, regarding the most important values and thoughts of each individual. You definitely know where you stand regarding her feelings and thoughts, not much detective work or guesswork required here, I like that. This ability to move a relationship along at this speed and level of trust is often barely obtainable, or even impossible for many couples. Since I am a very flexible person in general, especially regarding the subject of church and religion, I choose not to waste our time on the matter, we moved on to more important matters that are unique to each couples value system, whether intellectual, emotional or physical, we then spent time on those more important values, and in that fact alone the determination was formed as to whether or not compatibility was possible. I now seek to untangle some of the secondary values that are flexible and easily negotiable that I chalked up to being cultural misunderstandings. I think the differing cultural aspects allow me/us to allow for a much larger area of acceptability and forgiveness. As for cultural notions such as putting the root of the valerian plant on the pillow of a crying baby, to stop the crying, is seen as more then likely rooted in some truth that it is in fact a sedative, if boiled into a tea and ingested. Things of this nature I am uncertain how to handle. If you continue to discuss topics such as these with me I may not need as much outside help as I first thought. I believe your advice is sound and sincere; pointing me in the right direction for outside assistance is also invaluable to me. Would an ESL group be able to teach me anything, or is it strictly a foreign national woman’s group?

Thank you,

Brian

Posted by: Knight_Kadosh

Myshka,

As your time my permit, there are a number of more serious misunderstandings that I would love to discuss with you. We continue to struggle with the subject of money. The compromising solution thus far has been to simply explain it this way. My/our financial goals are easily reprioritized, based on her desires and my/our rate of income. I have no problem whatsoever letting her decide how our income is to be spent. We cannot have it all; time is required to achieve some of these desires and somewhat lofty financial goals, which may be essential. I find that most will require significant funds. I am anxious to show her where all the money goes. When I use the word “expensive” it is received as an insult. I am prepared to document, on an ongoing basis fro her, how our money is spent, and show her money spent in one area is that much less saved toward a future goal she desires. It is getting better; her directness may be a result of her limited language skill, which by the way, is improving at a phenomenal rate. I have tried to explain fixed overhead as a standard of living, with limited success. Please understand, she is not gold digging, this I am sure of, it is more a misunderstanding, an “out of the frying pan into the fire concern”.

This information is very personal to me, and to her, please understand that this is difficult to discuss in an open forum and makes me somewhat vulnerable because many may judge that this relationship is money driven, you can be sure that it is not. Currently she earns the equivalent of $30-$60 dollars a month living in a one room apartment with her daughter, while sharing a common kitchen on that floor with seven other families, 40 families in that building share showers and bathrooms in the basement. I see and also envy all the interaction they have as an autonomous group or family within that building. I am a very culturally sensitive person, as you can imagine, since my customers are all Amish and old order Mennonites, (buggy people). It has taken me years to be accepted by them, within the allowed limits of a closed society. Please also understand that I am a very empathic person who may be somewhat overly sensitive, this could be viewed as either a good strength or a weakness, depending on ones point of view and understanding from life experience. Once again, your experience would be an invaluable asset to me.

Brian

Posted by: myshka

ESL is English as a Second Language. All Community colleges offer this, usually free of charge. There is some variance when one comes on a K1 visa but your best luck will be if no one in the local college knows what a K1 visa is, they will allow your fiancee to attend free of charge. This is a necessary thing for you to let Lena do, it handles two things at once, first she will further her English skills, second, she will meet people, not only Russian/Ukrainian who have limted English skills and possibly make some friends, she will feel she is not alone.
As a generalization about some aspect of money handling: here is an example of a difference in how your Lena may percieve things: (total generalization, please dont point out how there are many exceptions, I know this) many Americans, with a specific amount of money to spend on a random thing, say, Clothing, will go out and buy as much as they can with the dollars they have, ie. 3 blouses, 2 skirts, 2 dresses, of lesser cost, but they will then have 7 items. Former SU women, will rather spend that amount on one good thing, ie, get one fabulous dress, rather than get many things. I dont know why, but this is true usually.
If you already know about her living arrangements and salary, imagine how it sounds to her when you tell her that you pay $1000 per month for a mortgage (imaginary figure but you will get the idea) but if your salary is $4000 per month, and that is only 25% of your salary, it doesnt look the same.
I guess one of the biggest obstacles about money our family had to over come was "everything is so expensive in the USA" I would explain over and over, yes, if your salary is $100 per month, and you pay $40 for a blouse, that is expensive, but if you have a salary of several thousand a month, it is not.
I guess one thing my husband did when he came to the USA was spend money like water. However, he could afford it, (he is a professional) and this tapered off after a while.
Childrearing will be very difficult, Russ/Ukr moms are notorius for spoiling (in our view) their children, especially if they were a single mom for any length of time. They will warm the childs milk, God forbid if cold liquid will touch their throat, they will have a heart attack if there is an open window in a room and there is a BREEZE! They will keep them home from school if there is any hint of sickness. Be prepared, I dont know if you have raised any children but it will be different!

All this said, I think the differences in our cultures is what makes this relationship exciting, interesting and fascinating. I would not change a thing about it. (just the homesickness that seems to not go away)

Keep asking questions, that is how you learn.

Posted by: Knight_Kadosh

Here’s the deal, and one thing is for sure, unlike most RW that I have read about, who might already know, or who may have been coached not to ask questions, the latter I suppose would lead to fear of the unknown for most, is that she is most definitely not afraid to ask questions. As for whether or not they are considered honorable questions or requests could be defined as a cultural characteristic, which I do not view as inappropriate, depending on the circumstance. Yes, I realize we could go on and on about the standard of moral principles, i.e., pleasure vs. pain, etc, etc…we can save that for another time. I really do not possess a cornucopia of money, and this essential message does not appear to be getting through to my significant other, perhaps saving money may be perceived as greed, I really have no idea? I fear that her perceived understanding of our financial capability will be considered a deception on my part, rather then a cultural misunderstanding. She remains adorable and I am attracted to the essence of this eccentricity that is rather exquisite in its bewilderment. If I may speak freely, so I was wondering how pissed-off she will be if my financial portfolio is not what she perceived it would be, or if that will really matter, ultimately. You can be sure that we as a family can do all that she asked, but in a reasonable timeframe, and provided she understands that unknown variables can cause changes to current financial priorities and practices. I do not wish to be deceptive, yet I continue to be concerned that I appear more financially resourceful then I really am. The emotional implications are rather extreme in their very nature as you find yourself second-guessing her motive. I’m from the ‘keeping your wife happy means you will be happy” school of thought, however, unrealistic expectations are often difficult to control, and these expectations, in any given moment in time, may be found running amuck in the mind of either individual in that relationship. Being physically isolated from one another and being culturally different only adds to the already disproportionate number of unfounded thoughts. So now I also wonder how I keep the truant officer of the local school district from imposing fines on us for excessive absenteeism. My child raising skills, at best, are negligible; so I will be attentively following her instructions in this area, to the letter. I agree that it is the differences in our cultures that make for a very enlivening, motivating and captivating relationship, perhaps even a touch of, young at heart. So tell me, any other surprises? I’m guessing you’re about to inform me that I will be out-voted on most occasions, or they will, for all intents and purposes, be running the household in no time. I was wondering about an onion slice on your forehead for headaches and valerian root beside your head for slumber, and that sort of thing. I tend to lean a little more toward modern medicine for those solutions, how do you approach that sort of thing? If this medical opinion falls under her beliefs (why), rather then scientific (how), this area of discussion could get rather dicey, and my best guess is not to discount their beliefs unnecessarily, out of respect. What about mild cultural shock, I wouldn’t know what this looked like if my life depended on it. What are some of the more significant and meaningful things people find more appealing upon their arrival here that eventually lead them into wanting to stay here. I am curious, what do you think regarding their newly enhanced freedoms and less restrictive surroundings, combined with greater degrees of enabled trust extended all along the way, resulting in a unique cohesion to a relationship?

Posted by: myshka

however, it is a great issue to debate,

"I am curious, what do you think regarding their newly enhanced freedoms and less restrictive surroundings, combined with greater degrees of enabled trust extended all along the way, resulting in a unique cohesion to a relationship?"

Why do you assume that they have newly enhanced freedoms and a less restrictive surrounding? I beg to differ with that statement. However, this is not an appropriate place for debate of this subject. (too long, not enough time, no immediate feedback)

Posted by: Knight_Kadosh

Since I was educated during the “Cold War” era, and certainly no longer current, you will have no problem with me on this issue, and I agree, I am in no position to debate this issue effectively, how is it, or how do you see it? Feel free to give me the abbreviated version.