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TWO STRIKES & YOU'RE OUT?
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Posted by: vic2012

My fiance has been told by her local marriage broking guru (lots of girls go to this woman for advice) that, if you apply for two settlement visas, then that's your lot. You cannot apply again.

Has anyone heard of this rule. I'm upset because she's put the wind up my fiance.

Three years ago, my fiance had an unfortunate episode with a guy who was untruthful and turned out to be almost destitute. That lasted six months, before she returned home from Europe.

The British application form clearly asks if she has been in any relationship in the past. One question askes if she was engaged to be married or agreed to form a civil parnership.
And, they need to see the old passport.

So, she has been told to be very careful this time. If she gets a settlement visa and things do not work out for us; no embassy will grant her a married/fiance visa for a third time.

Is this an old wives tale?

Posted by: Ade

Hi,

I've not seen this mentioned on any of the UK Gov. sites, and it does sound like an old wives' tale, really; it certainly wouldn't stand up to any sort of challenge on human Rights principles now.

Sometimes, the people in the FSU get it wrong about things in the UK....in a fairly recent Russian paper I bought for Seida, there was an article by an eminent Russian lawyer saying that in the UK, if someone is arrested for drink driving after, say, drinking in a bar with a friend, the friend would also be arrested for letting him drink drive; this was reported as fact. You and I know it's tosh.

When Seida came here, she was also worried because of 'truths' she was being told about the application process - I had to spend some time telling her that what the Russians thought in this case didn't matter a fig, as it was the UK who decided if she got a visa.

You could call the UKVisas/IND offices for reassurance, but I can't see how it could be applied now - it isn't a crime to have had a failed relationship.

Good luck,

Ade

Posted by: vic2012

Thanks Ade.

Just turning this around, in case I got the wrong end of the stick. Is there any reason why the Russian authorities would not let her back after she has emigrated twice?

Posted by: firemansam

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic2012

Thanks Ade.

Just turning this around, in case I got the wrong end of the stick. Is there any reason why the Russian authorities would not let her back after she has emigrated twice?

Hi vic!
I wouldn't think so mate. One news program I saw over there was basically saying that the Russian Authorities were all but recruiting expats to come home. Honestly, they were telling the story that if you were Russian and still held your passport (weather you had become a foreign citizen or not) and you rocked up to a Russian Embassy wanting to move home again, they would even help financially to bring you back......
Hope this helps.

Sam.

Posted by: swindoom

I think her local marriage broking "guru" is getting the US and the UK/EU mixed up. They changed the law in the US and the guy is only allowed to sponsor two fiancee visa's, after the second fiancee visa a US guy cannot sponsor another one.

From my experience alot of so called "experts" in Omsk do not understand we are seperate countries with different requirements/laws.

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by swindoom

I think her local marriage broking "guru" is getting the US and the UK/EU mixed up. They changed the law in the US and the guy is only allowed to sponsor two fiancee visa's, after the second fiancee visa a US guy cannot sponsor another one.

From my experience alot of so called "experts" in Omsk do not understand we are seperate countries with different requirements/laws.

I think the actual law they were trying to pass limited how many times per year (or some time frame) a man can apply for a visa for his fiance. I think he could potentially apply for many visas over a long period of time. I don't think they could legally restrict how many times a person could apply for a visa, only how frequently.

It has no effect upon the women coming here, etc only the sponsor.

Posted by: waiting123

Quote:

Originally Posted by searcher

International Marriage Broker Act (IMBRA) limits the following

You may have no more than 1 visa petition filed in a rolling 24 months.
You may have 2 approved petitions in a lifetime.

If you apply for a third you must request a waiver, which they are stating is very difficult to get unless you have a very good reason for needing it.

So yes basically 2 strikes and you are out. But this is the US, not the EU or UK.

here is an excerpt from IMBRA:

LIMITATIONS ON FILING MULTIPLE K VISA PETITIONS: (Revised July 2006) For the first time, limitations are placed on the filing of K Visa petitions (both K-1 Fiancee and K-3 Spousal). There are two (2) kinds of limitations: A. numerical limitation and B. time limitation. Under USCIS current intrepretation of Section 832(a)(2) of IMBRA, some petitioners will not be able to file a K Visa petition as of right. Numerical limitation: If a petitioner filed two (2) or more K Visa petitions ever in the past which were APPROVED by Immigration Service, then that petitioner needs to secure a special exception called a "waiver" from Homeland Security before successfully filing another K Visa petition. Time limitation: If a petitioner filed any single K Visa petition which was APPROVED by Immigration Service in the past 24 months, then that petitioner must wait at least 24 months from the filing date of the last petition before filing the next K Visa petition, or secure the special exception "waiver" from Homeland Security, before he can successfully file another K Visa petition.

Posted by: MikeCa

It is nice to know that with all the problems in the US, congress finds the time to pass this law. ;-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by waiting123

Posted by: waiting123

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeCa

It is nice to know that with all the problems in the US, congress finds the time to pass this law. ;-)

From what I see, no matter what is going on, congress has time to write worthless legislation.

Posted by: SCOTTUSA

Why not marry her, in CIS, or anywhere, then apply for Visa to get her into USA???

No politician/bureaucrat would dare to stop a man from bringing his wife into the "Land of Freedom"! Would they?

Sounds like a good "Khashar Documentary" to me!!!

-Scott

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCOTTUSA

Why not marry her, in CIS, or anywhere, then apply for Visa to get her into USA???

No politician/bureaucrat would dare to stop a man from bringing his wife into the "Land of Freedom"! Would they?

Sounds like a good "Khashar Documentary" to me!!!

-Scott

Yes they will... and have done so...

Long before my search... and before the WTC disaster.. I remember reading in the debate on immigrants about a lady who had come in on a fiancee visa.. but found that her fiancee was an abusive man and beat her.. she found another man to marry, and both of them thinking she need to get married in the timeframe did so... however, her visa was for her sponser and not another man... so they deported her... when she applied for a visa to come back.. refused... she had 'lied' on her previous visa... from what I remember she could not apply again for 10 years... they tried to play it up in the media, but nobody cared..

hmm.. this probably would mean her 10 years were up after 9-11... I wonder if she got back in.. or did they divorce??? makes you wonder..

Posted by: SCOTTUSA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

THANKS TP- The example you posted- What a MESS.

MORAL of the story- "Obey the rules".

Posted by: so cal rick

Ah, what a fine lad firemansam is

Listen mate, I don't know the law or requirements

but as a "owner" of the USA, I will be bloody damned...if fact bloodt "ell" if I let the "clowns" in government dictate to me who I can become engaged to and how mant times I can try.

Do ya hear the drum beat lads.....it 1776 all over again

So Cal rick

Posted by: EasyTarget

How crazy of a law is this...why is the ACLU not fighting it???

So the law is stating that you can only ever marry 2 non-US citizens in your lifetime?

What happens if you marry a girl at 25 marriage lasts 6 years and then divorce. 35 you marry a second girl lasts 10 years and then divorce.

Does that mean if you ever want to get married again you HAVE to marry a US
citizen???

Is this law not infringing on our right of "pursuit of happiness"?

Posted by: Texas Proud

Hey guys...

From what I read... and using Easy Target's example... you can get a third... but, it is not 'automatic'... you have to petition them and they take a look.. it would seem that this example would be an OK...

But, what if you got a visa, she came over and you did not get married... within one month applied for another visa... she came, you got married but divorced in 6 months or less.. applied for a third and did not get married... maybe they would say NO to your forth request within a two year period... (and I do not think you CAN request 4 in 2 years....)...

Posted by: waiting123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

Hey guys...

From what I read... and using Easy Target's example... you can get a third... but, it is not 'automatic'... you have to petition them and they take a look.. it would seem that this example would be an OK...

But, what if you got a visa, she came over and you did not get married... within one month applied for another visa... she came, you got married but divorced in 6 months or less.. applied for a third and did not get married... maybe they would say NO to your forth request within a two year period... (and I do not think you CAN request 4 in 2 years....)...

I have been following this. In your example easy, you would have to apply for a waiver.

Since thies is a new law, and no waivers have yet been petitioned they are saying it is "unchartered" waters. It is written on the website the first 500-100 petitions to waiver will set the standard for future waivers. That almost all reasons will be discovered in the first 500-100 waivers. An example they use is if your wife/fiancee dies or is killed, you should be entitled to a waiver, but as TP stated it is not automatic you have to petition the waiver.

Posted by: EasyTarget

Yes you could file a petition and be granted the waiver.

HOWEVER...I think a fundamental thing is being determined here and the Supreme Court needs to knock it down.

INS is determining who a person can or can not marry. How crazy is this? When did INS gain that authority? So many issues with this law. I really don't understand how it can be remotely constitutional.

Posted by: JuliaNH

I`m ready to get spoiled tomatoes thrown in me...

Though IMBRA for sure is against human rights...For women it means extra defence, there`ll be less possibility for them to depend in an alien country on abuser or person who just wants variety of partners from exotic countries witout intentions to have really longtime marriage, I`ve read girls` stories about such guys. Though IMBRA for sure will make life harder it will make people behave more responsible in international relationships.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

Yes you could file a petition and be granted the waiver.

HOWEVER...I think a fundamental thing is being determined here and the Supreme Court needs to knock it down.

INS is determining who a person can or can not marry. How crazy is this? When did INS gain that authority? So many issues with this law. I really don't understand how it can be remotely constitutional.

At first I was not going to reply.. but since the thread has come back up....

They are NOT determining who you can marry... there is NOTHING stopping you from going over and marrying this woman... they are just stopping you from bringing your wife back into the country.. and they do have this 'right'.. but you have a right to petition..

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuliaNH

I`m ready to get spoiled tomatoes thrown in me...

Julia.. I think you are wrong. I do not think it has anything to do with 'human rights' as you put it. I doubt there are many statistics, but I doubt there are many men who are out to get married again and again to someone from 'exotic countries' without the intention of a longtime marriage...

Yes, you read about the man who is abusive (many men are this way even with 'local' girls).. but even most of these guys want a long term relationship..

And a law will not change the behavior of these guys anyhow.. it might limit them to two marriages (which I doubt as they can ask for waiver)... and if I remember reading about the law they are supposed to give info on domestic violence.. but who is going to be truthful in this matter??? It is known that getting information from one state to another is difficult.. so, abuse somewhere.. move, get married, abuse again, move, get married, abuse etc...

So, you see that whatever the intent of the law for 'protection' will maybe be valid for only a handful of women.. and I bet there still will be many women who come over and are abused...

Posted by: GentleGiant

On the allowing a return to Russia point.
There has been talk of passing a law in Russia stripping RW's of their citizenship and property rights if they amrry a foreigner' nothing yet though.

i have been trying to get my friend to apply for German citizenship alongside her Russian, because this law if made, will stop an awful lot of women from even thinking about marrying a westerner ( which is exactly what the proposed law is intended to do).

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

HOWEVER...I think a fundamental thing is being determined here and the Supreme Court needs to knock it down.

INS is determining who a person can or can not marry. How crazy is this? When did INS gain that authority? So many issues with this law. I really don't understand how it can be remotely constitutional.

Sorry I'm late to the party, but to address this comment...
EasyTgt you need to understand that IMBRA is only a tiny little subsection of the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA). They piggy-backed this onto the larger law knowing full well that any politician voting AGAINST the VAWA, wouldn't (politically) live to tell the tale. Most of what John Q. Public would consider "boolsheet" legislation gets passed in this manner, because the bill sponsors understand that the law would never stand on it's own merit.

As TP said, INS does not tell you who you can marry, but they can and will tell you who you can bring home.

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuliaNH

I`m ready to get spoiled tomatoes thrown in me...

Im willing to bet you that the % of women "at risk" is less than the % of women chasing a green card who are using this process as a means to improve there stock in life at the expense of a man hoping to build a family with a wonderful woman. Funny how the guy doesnt have any legislative protections.... somehow Im not surprised that the feminists (they are the ones who are at the fore front of this legislation.) arent the least bit concerned about any of the other equaly devistating issues with international relationships/