permission from X for son to come to USA - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

	The Russian Meeting Place: A place to meet people and talk about all things Russian... International Discussions about Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Travel, Music, Russian News, Ukrainian culture, Belarusian Dating, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, Kiev and other intelligent topics about life in the former Soviet Union.

Pages: 1

permission from X for son to come to USA
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: chipd

can anyone tell me, do we need a letter from x-husband of my fiancee for her son to come to america? i have been told both yes and no and letter from moscow to her does not ask for one. her interview in on 19, november 2003

Posted by: ConnerVT

There are opposing views if a letter is necessary. The general opinion is that a letter is not needed in most circumstances. For if the natural father “decided” to change his mind at the last moment about allowing his child to leave the country, the letter is worthless.

Some suggestions –

If you are exiting Russia with a child and her mother, do so from Moscow. All accounts I’ve read said that immigration control in Moscow virtually never have a question about it.
If the child is less than 5 y.o., they can be listed on the mother’s international passport. At age five, he will then need his own international passport. In Russia, there are two passports, international and domestic. Make sure the international one is current, and does not expire during the 3 months they would be in the US, for they may not be allowed to leave the country.
Take a direct flight from Moscow to the US. Several European countries may give you trouble without documentation for the child to travel with one parent.
Be vague (or avoid completely) when giving information to the natural father about travel plans. It sounds sinister, but I have read too many accounts of the natural father using this as an opportunity to extort money from American men. Some demands have been in the tens of thousands of dollars! It may be unseemly to slip out in the dark of the night, but it is the best route for everyone. A natural father can sometimes be convinced that in the future, his child will be able to sponsor a visa for him.

Posted by: chipd

thank you for your information, her son is 15 and just received his international passport. she will be flying out of moscow direct to seattle where i will pick her up.

it is funny because when she talks to different marriage agency's in her city of yoshkar-ola thay all say something different but one says that same as what i have heard that it is no longer needed as of 2 years ago but others say she does need it.. very confusing

she is very worried about asking for it because she allready knows that he will stop support and if visa does not go through he will not give it back to her. i keep telling her that i am not worried about visa not going through as long as she has all her papers together it will go good. but she is worried about being laughed at if it doesn't.

Posted by: Pin Boy

I think that is good advice about being vague about travel plans. I am working on bringing Angela and her daughter to America from the Ukraine next summer. Currently in Ukraine if the woman does not have sole custody and the father is around, he must appear at the embassy interview and give permission for his child to leave the country. I have been imagining some possible pitfall scenarios and one of them is being ripped off by the father in a way you described. Angela lives in Odessa and the interview will be in Kiev and I have imagined being asked to provide train fare for him. According to Angela her ex doesn't provide a nickel of support, never helped with household expenses, has alcohol problems, but somehow found the money to buy a car after they split. While they were married, about the only thing he provided was a new TV which he watched late into the night while drinking....soooo....it may sound deceitful to keep the father in the dark, but it may also be a wise idea.

Posted by: Jim_FL

In YOUR situation, I would say the letter is definately not needed. Milage for others may vary

Do not try to fly Lufthansa, connecting in Frankfurt without it - ever. She and the son will not be allowed to board the plane

This "permission" is NOT a US requirement, it is a Russian requirement. It is loosly enforced (unless Ex-husband tips them off to exact dates and flight #s)

Russians are also required to obtain an exit visa if they plan to reside abroad for more than 90 days, but this isn't enforced either

Posted by: irynaost

Hello.... I am from Odessa... 5 years ago in order to enter US child was required to obtain travel permit which is a passport for child to travell . Child couldn't get international passport untill he/she turn 16, which is the age for everybody to get internal passport in Ukraine. Unfortunately if you divorced , you have to have special permit from Father , not just a letter. There was a special form Father has to sign infront of the notary public... I don't know if things changed since than ... To be honest I doubt.. write me if I can be any more help...
Irina

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally posted by irynaost
... I don't know if things changed since than ...

As far as the US gov't.......YES THEY HAVE!!
For Ukrainians with children now wishing to leave, the other parent MUST go along to the interview at the US embassy and give permission in person

(if he/she is still living). No forms, no notorized letters are acceptable.

Posted by: searcher

I'm curious,

Jim_Fl,
does the same thing apply to Russian?
What if the mother doesn't know where the father is or doesn't have contact with him?

What would be her course of action then?

Posted by: chipd

she is now worried that she wont be able to get airplane ticket if she doesnt have it. told her i didnt think it would be a problem but would let her know after i asked on here. her X-husband is milatary so she automaticaly gets support for her son but she also has sole custudy of him. they live a stone throw awy from each other and have been divoriced for 8 years and he doesnt even sy hi to him when he sees him.. i would say it is bad. are all russian men like this?
from what i have been reading on here it seems so.. and it is to bad because they are missing the most wonderful time in ther life by raising a child. myself i have 4 children all grown and 7 grandchildren and love them all

Posted by: ConnerVT

Chipd, first thing you need to do is calm down. It is a common Russian trait to expect the worst to happen, as for many years that's how life has been for most Russians. Making long range plans is very uncommon for them. It would be for you, too, if each day you were unsure if the hot water was going to be there, or the bus would make it the whole way to your destination.

Next, you need to stand up straight, put some authority in your voice, and tell your fiancee that many people do this every year, and that there is no problem that can't be handled. She still will worry about everything, but at least you won't be running around and jumping for every boogyman she thinks of. Most of these are created by the gossip of other Russian women. This is a very old, very established organization, and you will never overcome it. Don't even try.

Now that you've taken a deep breath and settled down, about airplane tickets.

If you are purchasing the tickets here in the USA, and are sending/carrying them to Russia to her, all you need is the correct English spelling of her name.

If she is purchasing (or perhaps picking up) the tickets in Russia, many travel agents will not sell her the ticket without her international passport and a valid visa. They will tell her she needs to purchase a round trip ticket, but this is not true (although, many times the RT ticket is cheaper).

She does not need a letter from the father to buy a ticket. She does not need a letter from the father to get a visa. And if leaving from SVO2 airport, she does not need a letter from the father to board the plane.

Think about it. The letter is actually worthless. Ten minutes after he writes the letter, he can change his mind, and demand that his child not leave the country. Which do you think has more pull, a letter to allow a russian child to head to the West, or a Russian man declaring his son will always be Russian?

As I wrote earlier, it may seem less than ethical, but the best manner to handle this is with as little interaction with the father as possible.

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally posted by searcher
I'm curious,

Jim_Fl,
does the same thing apply to Russian?
What if the mother doesn't know where the father is or doesn't have contact with him?

What would be her course of action then?

No it is not the same for Russians (but as a trade off, Russians are subjected to security checks lasting 5 times loneger than Ukrainians......so, pick you poison

)

There appears to be no provision for if a UKRANIAN mother doesn't know the whereabouts of the child's father. There have been rumors that a court order of sole custody will suffice but the embassy website doesn't say that (anywhere). What it does say is this:

Quote:

Fifth Step: The Visa Interview
Your fiancée will be asked to present:

*Valid passports for the beneficiary and any dependent children
*Birth certificates for the beneficiary and any dependent children
*Presence of the biological parent of any minor child under 16 years old
*Proof of termination of any prior marriages of both petitioner and beneficiary
*Police certificate(s) for the beneficiary and any dependent children over 16 years of age
*Medical exam results for the beneficiary and any dependent children
*Proof of adequate financial support once in the United States to ensure that your fiancée and dependent children will not become public charges
*Supporting documentation verifying the relationship between the petitioner and beneficiary

Quoted from: US Embassy, Kiev - Fiancee` visa page

Posted by: barry

I know of an instance where the father filed charges of mama taking the child from the FSU without his permission and filed kidnapping charges against moma. Had she not had his notarized statement giving permission to live in the USA, this charge and the ensuing international custody battle most likely would have had different results.

So keep this in mind when considering weather or not to have a written statement from papa allowing his children to leave the country.

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by barry
I know of an instance where...

That sounds a lot like how many facts begin that are passed around in the “Russian Woman Network”.

Were the charges filed in Russia? For Russia has not signed the international treaty extending parental rights, where these children in question will be deported back to their country of origin. A notarized letter only states these are my wishes, right now. The only way to truly protect yourself is for the mother to be awarded sole custodial rights of the child, without any visitation privileges granted to the father. Just as it would be here in the US.

At times it may seem that a notarized letter is all important in the FSU, as you can’t seem to get anything done without one. But a notarized document is only as important as the person who writes it (otherwise, you would here many more Russian children say “I want to be a notary when I grow up!”). A father in FSU can no more waive his parental rights and responsibilities than we can in the US. He may be able to ignore and evade them, but he can not waive them simply by writing a letter.