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Russian women being seen as sex objects (pornography, objectification in the media..)
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Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Everyone...

I thought that it might be interesting to explore the relationship between Russian women's portrayal in the media, and the effect that this has on Russian women and their perceptions in the West...

As many of us know, Russian women are often portrayed as sex objects in the media...

At some point in the media over the past few years, Russian women have become a part of men's fantasies in pornography as well.....

Is this because Russian women really do not have a voice in the general public and are easy to manipulate? Is it because many Russian marriage agencies "market" Russian women as sexy, beautiful and faithful, which seems somehow to fuel the object use of Russian women to fulfill some Western men's sexual fantasies?

Somehow in all of this, the fact that each Russian woman is different and unique is lost...

I am not a feminist, but... I think that Russian women are seen as sex objects because it sells.... I think that perhaps this perception and interpretation of who Russian women are is making a lot of companies (marriage agencies, pornographers) money.

If it was profitable to see Eskimo women as sex objects, then this market would probably also develop....

But why Russian women? And how did this develop?

We discussed in another thread that Russian women were seen as exotic and perhaps even dangerous forbidden fruit as a result of Cold War spy films (like the James Bond series).... The origin of this might have been that European women were often seen as being exotic and desirable (for example, both French, Swedish, ans Spanish women have been considered sexy and exotic over the years)....

Again, I think that this might come down to what is marketable and will make money for people, but also what is desired and wanted by the public....

Somehow, Western men WANT to "the Russian woman"-- someone who is sexy, perhaps even compliant and will serve some or many of the man's needs.... I do not feel that this expectation is healthy or beneficial, but... I am expressing that I think that this is a general perception of Russian women in the eyes of not all people, but many people, and there are some men who find this kind of woman (or the image of this kind of woman) appealing....

There is no spokesperson for Russian women in the media at this time who can counteract the image and perception of the Russian woman as compliant, sexy, "old-fashioned" and domestic...

Anna Kornikova and Oxana Fedorova are two Russian women who have been recently popularized in the media... Their sex appeal seems to be the most featured aspect of their image...

Recently, Anna Kornikova was the most popular searched person on internet search engines....

Maybe some of the sexualization of women (which includes the popularization of women in pornography) is partly because some men like to feel that they can take control of women they desire.....

Maybe some men feel that because Russian women come from an economically poor country, that they can bring Russian women to the West and take control of them and thus "possess" a beautiful scandinavian-looking woman, almost as if they are buying a beautiful bride for the cost of a visa and a couple of plane tickets?

Of course, not all men think in this way, but..... there are men who want to possess a women who is considered beautiful in the man's culture-- perhaps this is related to the gained status that the man thinks he will receive, or the increase in self-confidence that he feels that it will bring him....

Whatever the reason, I believe that it is important to remember that every Russian woman is different and unique, and that they will not be domestic house slaves who fulfill a husband's every desire.... Russian women of course have unique feelings and desires and interests, and respond just like any other persons do to respect and love, or to disrespect and ill-treatment...

(I am going to post this message because it is 4:23 a.m. here in Los Angeles, and.... I am pretty tired

Khashyar

Posted by: klawsite

Great thread Khashyar,

I agree that the media has portrayed Russian Woman in this light. Even on the news it has been portrayed as such. This does create a stigma in our culture which leads alot of people to believe that the am/rw relations are not like normal relationships you would have with am/aw relationships.

What I tell my friends I chose to talk to about it, because they have open minds and don't tend to believe everything the media tells them is that in most every aspect, it is the same. But.. I tell them there are added aspects as well, such as our cultural differences, the difficulties of a long distance realtionship, language barriers and the difficulties of getting your fiance back to the US as well.

As I get to know Nadya more and more, I realize that she is a very intelligent, wonderful woman, who is very independent and has her mind set on what she wants in life and in her relationship. For someone that wants to be able to control the other in a relationship this would not be a good thing.
But.. for me, these are qualities along with many others that I admire in her. I have no wish to control her life. I think it is enough of a challenge controlling my own life.

Unfortunately, as you have mentioned in this thread, numerous agency try to sell this as a Mail Order Bride thing. I am afraid that if you look at it in that way, you are in for a let down. I think that is very far from the truth. But if you look at it as a way to be introduced to women and correspond with them to see where the correspondence may lead, then you are being honest with your self and have a much better chance of finding someone who could change your whole life!!! Hopefully in a very wonderful way. On top of all of this, you have a chance to become more cultured in the process. The main thing is to keep an open mind. Be honest with them and show them the respect they deserve!!

They are human beings just as you are and desire to meet that special someone in their life just as you do!! But I doubt any of them are looking for someone who has a fear of being rejected and wants to be controlling. What I do see that they want is a man who can be strong for them and sensitive to there needs as well. Wow... Sounds like something most woman in the States are looking for as well!!

It is our responsibility I think to try to dispell this stigma that our Media has put on the AM/RW dating scene. My friends that I have chose to talk to about it have come to understand that it definetly is not a Mail Order Bride scenario, but just another avenue for a man to find the woman the he desires to live his life with. There just happens to be additional challenges one must face when using this resource. A couple of my friends have decided to try it themselves. I wish them the best of luck!!

-Kevin

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

I think that Russian women are seen as sex objects because it sells.... I think that perhaps this perception and interpretation of who Russian women are is making a lot of companies (marriage agencies, pornographers) money.

I agree but I also thinkm this is because it is something new , different and being that alot of men/people don't know much about Russia, Russian Women, Russian Culture, etc it seems to be something exotic and exciting for them.

In some ways its like the hype on some of the RW dating web sites that say RW are sexy, etc. While this may be true, its not the only quality these women have but to say otherwise or to point out other things doesn't sell what they have to sell, does it?

The porn industry, etc needs something new, different and *exciting* to sell and RW have become one more niche in that market.

Quote:

We discussed in another thread that Russian women were seen as exotic and perhaps even dangerous forbidden fruit as a result of Cold War spy films (like the James Bond series).... The origin of this might have been that European women were often seen as being exotic and desirable (for example, both French, Swedish, ans Spanish women have been considered sexy and exotic over the years)....

Yes, as I stated above.... And things that seem *dangerous*,*exotic* and *risky* captivate some peoples attention.

Think of it this way. While some RW dating site do state things which are true to a certain extent they will embellish upon the things which they know will hold mens attention.

Thats why if you want something true, legitimate you have to read between the lines. Understand what is hype and what is true!

Posted by: Khashyar

Yes, Kevin and Searcher...

It is good to educate ourselves and others regarding these perceptions and issues...

I think that, for some men, it is easy to buy into the concept that Russian women are somehow more docile and that it takes less work and sincere effort to make this relationship work as it does to make a relationship work with any other woman...

Of course some of the cultural values are different between a woman from the West and Russia, but... I have found that once your Russian fiance or wife moves to the West to live her life with you, that cultural differences become much less important than how relating to another individual...

Traveling to Russia, as well as being married to a Russian woman has taught me that we have more similarities as human beings than differences...

Khashyar

Posted by: Yozhik

Great thread,

I certainly agree that the perception of WM/RW relationships in the west, be it in the media, or general public, is very harsh compared to the truth.

Speaking from an English viewpoint, and I doubt there is much difference than in America, some people (i.e. friends of friends) who found out about Anna, were very close to getting a smack in the mouth from me! I would show a picture, and then there would be a smirk, a cheeky grin, a "nice work mate!" response which blatantly showed an instant lack of respect for Anna, and something that really racked me off. If Anna were English, would I have had the same response? Of course not. Not necessarily for the individual or persons considered, but the blatant lack of knowledge among pretty much everyone in all cross-sections of our community. Yes, many people assume that a WM is seeking a "mail-order bride" to be like a wife of 50 years ago, where women are effectively second-rate citizens. They do not work, but bring up the children. They put dinner on the table when we come home from the office, wash up after etc. etc. and of course the "sex slave" aspect of it.

The thing that really gripes me is that there are even some people who we might know very well, have this perception, and know damn right that, every guy on this forum, would never want a relationship of this sort.

I just wonder what can be done about this tho? I feel that these situations will be faced on a regular basis by some. I also wonder, had Anna actually moved to England as a student, or with parents, and THEN we got together - this would be more acceptable by Joe Public than us meeting on the net. Why?

I think that when a WM/RW relationship has progressed to marriage with the RW moving to the west, all family and friends of the WM certainly find out just how charming, intelligent, and loving the ladies really are, and not something that the media and public in general surmise Russian/FSU women to be.

Si

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Simon....

You speak intelligently about this...

I think that if we met a Russian woman in the West in our countries, that the perception would be different because the element of immigrating "to receive a visa" would not be present.

What you said is accurate that once people meet our Russian significant others, then they realize that they are sincere, honest people, and many people are less skeptical....

My dad, for example, had some judgments regarding Russian women before he met Lena... I will just say that he had some dubious conclusions about them

But, once he met Lena, he realized taht she was a nice, friendly, intelligent and sincere woman, and she accepted her into the family...

Khashyar

Posted by: Aaron Chase

I actually work part time in a adult video store. And more often or not, RedLight District, Evil/Elegant Angel, Diabolic/Anabiolic video seems to market more women from Hungary, Czech Republic than they do Russian Women. However, Private media seems to have a few Russian women who do their videos. I think perhaps why most men have the fantasy of women from the former soviet states, is because up until now, it's been very rare for men to encounter them, and even more rare to see them in adult videos and magazines. Now it's becoming more and more on the adult market, and I suspect the reason the women get into it, is for the money. Which the adult studios have plenty of, since let's face it, alot of men are buying and renting it. (I should know, it pays my rent). I know I walk a fine line in treating women with respect, and working in a adult video store, but it's never going to be easy for Russian women to stand up to men's stereotypes until they tell us how it is......

Posted by: golek

Aaron,

Just curious, what does your fiancee think about your chosen profession?

Posted by: Aaron Chase

It's funny, she never asks about it. But she understands I need the money.....I've tried to ask her opinios on porn in general, but never got a reply.....I guess she just doesn't want to talk about it......Can't say I blame her...

Posted by: Charles

Hey everybody,
Another aspect to consider is that other people cannot fathom why seemingly normal middle class men will travel all the way around the world to meet and marry women they "hardly know."
They ask, "what is so special about these women?"
"Why would these men take these chances?"

Most people are not so bold. My guy friends would never take the chance or expense to find a RW. They are content to wait for an AW who does not think he will restrict her freedom. Good luck to them.

Everyone assumes there is something different and special about these women. My RW is constantly asking me why I want a RW. She wonders. To her, she is a completely normal and unremakrable woman. She says I am like George Clooney (I let her dream). To her, I am the mysterous and exotic one.
Another thing is that accent. It has been said before in this forum, but that accent makes me like the Frankenstein monster in "Young Frankenstein."
Charles

Posted by: ulughbek

About the accent:

I tried to observe my own reaction to many things when I spent time with my fiancee in Uzbekistan. I was concerned to know whether I myself was fascinated by her only because she was exotic and mysterious and had a beautiful, sexy accent. But I observed carefully when she talked with others in Russian in very ordinary situations. And I still found her to be wonderful and magnificent, and her voice transports me to mysterious realms even when she speaks in Russian. Other people speaking in Russian, or in English with a Russian accent simply do not affect me.

To be rational about it, I think this is the normal reaction of being in love. The accent is just a convenient external characteristic that becomes a focal point for all of the feelings that go along with that. And her laughter, without any ethnic or national affiliation, is the best of all.

Ulughbek

Posted by: LeoN

Hi all.
Sean Mcgann i like your points.
Personally, i dont care about other peoples opinion.Who gives a s@2t for them, when you know that you found a diamond?
I believe that we are pioneers.Most of our friends (and family) do not agree with our choice, marrying a RW.I announced to my family that i m searching for a RW and they went mad.Like it or not, RW are much better than western women.Thank God that only few of us know the truth.Otherwise, the competition would be tough.

Posted by: Charles

You know, there is an intimidation factor involved here. AWs see RWs as willing to compromise more with their Western husbands, thus undermining their 'hardfought gains' in American culture in the last 30 years. RWs are educational overachievers who are willing to put their priorities toward harmony of the home. My Russian fiance says the main reason she was looking for a husband in America was because she wanted a kind husband who would care for his children. She could not find a suitable man in Russia her own age. Statistics back her up.
Upwardly mobile AWs have been conditioned to hold the line against us brutes, even to the breaking point of the marriage.(American men are often just as obstinate and responsible for bad marriages, don't get me wrong. American men are sinners too, not saints. Men and women are destroying the institution of marriage in this country together.)
There is also the factor of competition. AW are naturally going to react strongly against strong competition for jobs and attention. RWs are culturally programmed to always look their best in public. That puts pressure on the AW in her company. It is probably not appreciated by some women. AWs are like my circle of guy friends, we criticise and make fun of the competition. We try to make them a joke.

Posted by: Vyesna

Usually I don't bother, because what's the point? However, today I'm feeling feisty.

I can't speak for all AW, but...

�� Charles

"You know, there is an intimidation factor involved here. "

You know, I have several RW friends, a RW mother-in-law, a RW sister-in-law and I participate on a forum where a good core of 30-50 well-educated RW write regularly (most of whom are married to American men) and quite frankly, I'm not intimidated by any of them.

"AWs see RWs as willing to compromise more with their Western husbands, thus undermining their 'hardfought gains' in American culture in the last 30 years. "

Hmmmmm...well, judging from my conversations with my RW friends and conversations on the forum, I compromise just as much, if not more with my husband than they do. I also don't expect certain things out of him that they demand out of their husbands and don't complain about him the way they do about their husbands-- draw your own conclusions. Also, he gets to decorate the house pretty much the way he wants (as long as it is something I can live with, even if I don't like it). I don't think you'll find many RW or AW willing to do that.

"RWs are educational overachievers"

Hmmm.... being as I have a B.A. and a J.D. from very good universities, I think I probably also match up pretty well with any RW on that point as do all of my AW friends. I guess we just move in different circles.

" who are willing to put their priorities toward harmony of the home."

Every woman I know, whatever nationality she may be, thinks first and foremost all the time about how to make her relationship with her husband better. However, if you think that "putting their priorities to the harmoney of the home" means a wife who never argues with her husband, never takes a different viewpoint (or never expresses that viewpoint), always gives into him on everything...well, you'll be hard pressed to find a woman anywhere like that unless she's scared silly of you. Quite frankly, I think you're more likely to find a religious AW like that than a RW like that.

"My Russian fiance says the main reason she was looking for a husband in America was because she wanted a kind husband who would care for his children. She could not find a suitable man in Russia her own age. Statistics back her up. "

That's probably true for many women over 32-35.

"Upwardly mobile AWs have been conditioned to hold the line against us brutes, even to the breaking point of the marriage.(American men are often just as obstinate and responsible for bad marriages, don't get me wrong. American men are sinners too, not saints. Men and women are destroying the institution of marriage in this country together.)"

I don't think of my husband as a "brute" even though he is quite the lad. And "hold the line" on what? Every issue? Or is a woman who feels strongly about something, out of principal and disagrees with her husband about it supposed to just shut up and put up even if her husband wants to do something she feels is wrong or extremely risky for the family?

"There is also the factor of competition. AW are naturally going to react strongly against strong competition for jobs"

Competition for jobs from RW? That has never crossed my mind. If that is the case, then AM should be just as worried as AW and even more worried, because there are more AW than AM in college now.

" and attention."

Whatever.

" RWs are culturally programmed to always look their best in public. That puts pressure on the AW in her company. It is probably not appreciated by some women. "

This is true. I will admit the average RW puts more effort than the average AW into her looks in public on a daily basis. However, if an AW doesn't put in the effort, it's because she doesn't want to and the fact that a RW does is hardly going to influence an AW's behavior (keep in mind, the vast majority of AW don't ever come into contact with RW and never think about them
at all and believe it or not, do not spend all day pondering the fact that some AM are searching for RW and thinking "
Woe is me, whatever are we going to do to get our men back?"). It's a free country. If a woman doesn't want to spend 5 hours on her appearance she doesn't have to. It's not a crime. If you don't like it, just ignore her, because quite frankly, it's none of your business. I don't think AM put as much effort into their appearances as European men either, but I think that's an individual choice and don't criticize anyone for making it (unless they complain about not being able to find a job when they don't dress appropriately for job interviews).

I work in Mahattan, where women dress up more than in the rest of the States, so I don't really see this difference in my life, although I will give you that point. On the other hand, from my observations (and although I don't follow fashion extremely closely, I do pay attention) an AW is less likely than a RW to commit the appearance sins of 1) wearing out-of-style fashions from about 15 years ago 2) overdressing where it's really inappropriate 3) dressing too skimpy where it's really inappropriate and 4) wearing way too much make-up.

" AWs are like my circle of guy friends, we criticise and make fun of the competition. We try to make them a joke. "

I don't criticize RW generally. There's nothing to criticize in RW, AM, AW or RM for that matter-- I only criticize individuals based on their words and actions. I like the RW I know a lot, some of them are my friends, I really enjoy the forum I participate in and I understand why a lot of them want to marry Westerners. I criticize people who make overgeneralizations about everything to justify whatever it is their doing in life. So you want to look for a wife in Russia. More power to you. Why do you have to make such a point of putting down AW on the way? What does it add to your sense of well-being and why do you have to justify yourself in this manner?

Furthermore, what do you think about your mother (she's an AW), or your sister (if you have one) and how are you going to keep your daughter(s) (if you have any) from exhibiting exactly the AW characteristics you don't like? Are you going to disown your daughters if they turn out to be typical "bad AWs"? Or maybe send them off to Russia for schooling on how to become a "real woman"?

Posted by: Charles

Vyesna,

You are right. I did not realize how overly general my post was. Being a WASP male in America, I am not as sensitive to generalized statements as I should be. I appreciate your good points and apologize for my boorish post. I have a bad habit of generalizing. Thanks for the education.
Charles

Posted by: rtking

Man, I went to visit my friend who works in Mid-Town. Holy Moly! I can't believe people regularly walk from Mid-Town to the East Village and back! That's like a 3 mile walk one-way. We NEVER do that in Los Angeles!

Especially with the humidity during summer. And to think that I'm an Ex-New Yorker (from Flushing!)

Bob K.

Posted by: NathanNathan

>I tried to tell her while my mother is my mother and I treat her >as so, I do not rely on her for anything. I want sveta to be the >only woman in my life,and the womqan of the house . Her >house, where she makes the rules.

her house, she makes the rules

Did you have your balls castrated at a young age? What is wrong with you. It is people like you who make it difficult for all us other men. Please stop encouraging the notion of male subservience and female ascendancy. IF YOU ARE A MAN THEN START ACTING LIKE ONE.

My real complaint is this: why must she make the rules? Can't you just get along with her in a quid pro quo relationship like you would with any of your male friends? You wont be respected if you kiss her (possibly very, very pretty) arse.

Posted by: NathanNathan

Vyesna,

You are right. I did not realize how overly general my post was. Being a WASP male in America, I am not as sensitive to generalized statements as I should be. I appreciate your good points and apologize for my boorish post. I have a bad habit of generalizing. Thanks for the education.
Charles

CHARLES PLEASE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO APPOLOGISE FOR BEING WHITE, PROTESTANT, ANGLO-SAXON, AMERICAN OR MALE.

Being all those things does not make you insensitive. However, crumbling when somebody disagrees with you and then blaming it on your heritage, race and religion to mollify them is POINTLESS.

Start acting like a man, and stop acting like a POLITICALLY CORRECT lapdog for whoever disagrees with you. People will respect you for holding your ground. Personally, I think you make life harder for blokes (and white, protestant, anglo-saxon,americans) when you cave in like a little baby who has been scolded by mommy.

Finally- THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT TODAY WAS BUILT BY WHITE ANGLO-SAXON ENGLISHMEN.

Posted by: Charles

NathanNathan,
I was generalizing. I made those observations about specific incidences toward a Russian woman I work with here. I should have made that clear in my post way back when, but I did not. Therefore, I had to back up a little.
Vyesna's posts are valued for their insight by members of this forum. We are better for hearing what she has to say. I respect her.
Now your posts,on the other hand, do not carry such weight. I cave in only when I am wrong. The only thing I blame my heritage for is good genetics.
So stop hurling faceless, insulting emails like a Frenchman, and show a little civility. How many Y-chromosomes do you have, anyway?

Posted by: Khashyar

Lots of fiestiness today

Fortunately, we are all here to learn something, and learn from our differing life experiences and points of view...

Personally, I don't like to get into arguements about whether this type or that type of woman or man is better...

I believe that I have said this before-- that the longer that I spend with my wife Lena, the less the fact that she is Russian comes into my mind....

Even though Lena and I spend time on this Russian-Western website, we still don't think much about Lena being Russian and I being a Westerner... Our individual qualities are what matters to us on a practical daily basis...

Before I lived with Lena, and in the very begining of our time together, it was fun and noticeable to me that Lena was Russian and I was "American," but now... the surf of life is washing over any cultural differences that we have...

So.. I appreciate hearing differing opinions, especially in a respectful atmosphere...

Khashyar

Posted by: D in KS

Quote:

Originally posted by NathanNathan [/ THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT TODAY WAS BUILT BY WHITE ANGLO-SAXON ENGLISHMEN.

That explains why the entire world is such a mess

There is just no end to the interesting facts I have learned from this forum

Debbie

Posted by: ulughbek

I think when Angles began to mix with Saxons, everything went downhill from there. And what about the Picts? There is an unfairly neglected ethnic group for you!

Posted by: searcher

I just want to remind everyone

Your opinions are welcome but lets not attack a persons character or attack anyone.

I'm not so politically correct but I do believe somethings can be stated more tactfully.

Posted by: Vyesna

And what about the Normans who actually defeated those mighty Anglo Saxons and kept them underfoot for five hundred years, eh?

Posted by: Arnold

What do we have here?

A wolf in a sheep's skin?

A Nazi using a Jewish username?

Is this how a real man acts?

Pretending to be a Jew?

To protect himself from attack?

NN, you are a disgrace!

Posted by: Peter Burns

Getting back to the subject , slightly........
In my country the main sort of influence which I get is from the media ( TV/ Radio/newspapers/
etc ) and alot of it is very negative in regard to russians.The media like to portray the russian woman as a sex object because it sells papers- ordinary life does not sell papers .

Likewise , the biggest infleunce has been my familly - as long as I
ignore the negative and concentrate on the positive I can avoid stereotyping anyone - I dislike stereotypes because I usuallly miss something important if my mind is closed or my eyes are only looking for some proof that I was right.

When I have broached the subject of women from the fsu with collegues at work it has invariably evoked a response along the lines of wink wink nudge nudge etc or even along the lines of sex worker.This reaction has made me angry because I realise that most women from the fsu ( I speak with limited experience but what experience I have I will share ) are well educated , cultured, usually speak several languages, are extremely humerous and decent women. I have learnt that it is better to keep my own counsel .I do not like to fight- or at any rate I prefer to win my battles , so it is wiser to choose the right battle to fight.

Is the portrayal of the fsu woman as a sex object soley a recent phenomenon ? I do not think so . Partly it is that the fsu has been a mysterious continent - inhabited by a mysterious people- the russians . So two very potent images emerge and this
is manipulated by society into a charicature .

Posted by: Charles

Was "From Russia With Love" the first instance of pop culture imagery porttraying Russian women as sex objects, or were there earlier instances? The way the KGB threw beautiful young women at foreigner to "soften them up" during the Cold War has probably strengthened this image of Russian women.

Posted by: Arnold

what about "Bullwinkle"?

Was that befor or after the movie you are referring to?

Because there were Natasha and Boris, remember?

-- Arnold

Posted by: Charles

Rocky and Bullwinkle , with Boris and Natasha, was on from the late 1959 to 1974.
check ou this website:

http://bullwinkle.toonzone.net/history.htm

But, was Natasha sexy? I do not remember that so much. But I watched it before school every morning when I was 10 years old. I just remember she had low standards in men.

Now the horny Russian woman from the 'Hogan's Heroes' sitcom...
I think she fits the stereotype we are discussing here. That would have been 1968 or so.
She was lucky there were no extension cords in Stalag 13.

Posted by: Arnold

Hello Charles,

well, you have to take into consideration that Natasha is a caricature! And don't all women have to lower their standards in order to be with us men?

In any case, check this out, 1935 German & English versions of "Anna Karenina" (written by Leo Tolstoy) with Greta Garbo as Anna K. (two diffrent movies -- not dubbed).

Also Anna Karenina 1948 version with Vivien Leigh.

In 1939 Greta Garbo had the lead in another movie called "Ninotschka", but it's in German.

Now Greta Garbo definetly is/was a hot chick!

Best wishes, Arnold

Posted by: Khashyar

Thanks, guys, for providing specific examples of how Russian women have been stereotyped in the (Western) media...

It would be wonderful if someone would write an essay or research article about this sometime...

Khashyar

Posted by: Ironheart

I do not know much of the stereotype being prtrayed of RW in the media. It seems to be in all cultures in media worldwide. As for my part....my interest in RW came in 3rd to Aussie women being first, Scottish lasses second then RW.....
The reason for my strong attraction for RW is that I love a certain look and the accent plus their passion for being committed to marraige and it's success. I adore very tall women, blue or green eyed brunettes/black hair. AND WE ALL KNOW russian women are very tall!!!
The majority of blue eyed brunettes/black hair women in the world are found in Russia. And they are much more desiring to be married and maintain their feminine qualities. I do not mean to slam American women so much but the majority of the females where I live are overweight and do not take care of themselves ( no pride) I live in Texas.
Sorry, but I prefer a woman who prides herself in her appearance and her qualities of modesty equally. I could go on and on but no need to.......

Posted by: Arnold

Ironheart, you must be very short, if you honestly think many Russian women are tall!

Posted by: Ironheart

most russian females i know are over 5' 7 " tall to 6 foot. I am 5' 9" tall here in Texas most females are under 5' 4" tall and weigh 150 to 180 lbs.

Posted by: Arnold

Are women in Texas short due to abnormaly increased gravity?

Posted by: Ironheart

LOL That and eating too many tacos and cheesburgers and the genetic predisposition of parental inbreeding...lol

Posted by: andrei

all that feet-inches stuff is so confusing....

metric system is officially recognized all over the world, why are yall still stuck in those inches?....

the guy tells us he is five-feet-nine tall and I dont even have an idea is that tall or short

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by andrei
the guy tells us he is five-feet-nine tall and I dont even have an idea is that tall or short

5'9" (5 feet 9 inches) would make him average height.

But then, I always thought that women invented the Metric system, because stating they are 75 Kg sounds much more flattering than saying they weigh 165 pounds...

Posted by: Arnold

How does it feel Andrei, when you have an honest question, and you get a "clever" answer as presented by Mr. Conner?

He informed me in a different thread that Russians like it when people (like him) are being "clever" instead of helpful. Is that true?

Andrei, I don't know why American's are stuck on this system? Perhaps, they hold on to it, because they still want to belong to the British Empire, who knows?

In any case here is a rough conversion for you:
One foot which consists of 12 inches, and is pretty close to 30 cm.
One pound (lb) is 454g.

I hope, this will help you figure out, how short this Texan is.

Posted by: ConnerVT

Andrei is a dentist, very well educated, computer saavy, and I'm fairly certain that he can figure out how to convert feet and inches to centimeters.

Andrei is also very witty, and I posted my remark for his amusement. I consider him one of my Internet friends. If he has a problem with it, he is quiet capable of handling it on his own. He has proven that in the past.

If you want a more factual answer than Americans are afraid of leaving their British mother, her is one explaination: cost.

Much of the manufacturing machinery, commercial packaging, and Federal, state, and local legislation are designed and written for the system utilizing feet, pounds, gallons, etc. It would require a great expense to change this on a national level to the metric system. It would require retooling and recalibrating millions of pieces of machinery, or keeping the same demensions, and then selling items in very odd measurements.

Laws would also need to be rewritten. Example: Instead of taxing Gasoline (Petro) at a certain rate per gallon, the law would need to be rewritten to specifically state liters. Or we could be just converting everything to gallons anyway, so we could calculate how much tax is owed. Why do that?

The only reason to convert is if our trading partners insist on it. Yet they seem to like American products just fine, even when they are sold by the pound.

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by ConnerVT
Andrei is a dentist, very well educated, computer savvy, and I'm fairly certain that he can figure out how to convert feet and inches to centimeters.

Andrei is also very witty, and I posted my remark for his amusement. I consider him one of my Internet friends. If he has a problem with it, he is quiet capable of handling it on his own. He has proven that in the past.

If you want a more factual answer than Americans are afraid of leaving their British mother, her is one explanation: cost.

Much of the manufacturing machinery, commercial packaging, and Federal, state, and local legislation are designed and written for the system utilizing feet, pounds, gallons, etc. It would require a great expense to change this on a national level to the metric system. It would require retooling and recalibrating millions of pieces of machinery, or keeping the same dimensions, and then selling items in very odd measurements.

Laws would also need to be rewritten. Example: Instead of taxing Gasoline (Petro) at a certain rate per gallon, the law would need to be rewritten to specifically state liters. Or we could be just converting everything to gallons anyway, so we could calculate how much tax is owed. Why do that?

The only reason to convert is if our trading partners insist on it. Yet they seem to like American products just fine, even when they are sold by the pound.

Posted by: Ironheart

I'm not short.....i'm petite! LOL

Posted by: Arnold

Conner, sorry about the stab earlier. I was still pissed from yesterday -- have you looked at my post re. the ESL website?

Ironheart,
I am sure you have much luck with the Russian ladies, as you seem to have a good sense of humor.

Posted by: Ironheart

hmmmm? I do not know about the success part but I do have quite a few beauties that I have been corresponding with for some time now. One lady I have been communicating with I am going to go see in the summer. I have known her for 3 years. Now I do make her laugh a lot.

Posted by: Arnold

Is it your first visit, if I may ask?

Posted by: Ironheart

Yes it is my first visit to Russia, I have been to Poland and Chech.... before , back during the cold war days. Those check points and body cavity searches were to die for!!! LOL It deterred my venturing further into the heartland of Mother Russia.

Posted by: Arnold

I have been there during the "good old days". You didn't miss anything, back then I mean.

I have been to St. Petersburg and Moskau, and like I said, it really was nothing to write home about.

Very depressing, grey, cold (obviously I did not go in the summer). No possibility to make contact with regular none party member Russians.

Sputnik cigarettes -- pretty box, but leathel content!

No Vodka, due to Glasnost (prohibition period)...

Well, it was depressing back then!

Posted by: Ironheart

Well I dont smoke or drink so problem there....but you didnt go to the Hermitage? Thats what I want to see!!!! Rich works of art etc etc.... as far as the cold...it cant be as cold as where my lady friend lives...Nizhnekamsk....brrrrrr she got stuck in a snow bank two weeks ago and the truck konked out on her and she had no heater. poor baby...i keep telling her to move here to TEXAS we just now started getting cold weather....all of 45 degrees! LOL It won't start getting really cold here until march... then by May we get back up to 80 and 90 degrees then by June its 100 all the way up to October......

Posted by: Arnold

Hello Aqua,

the Sputnik ciggis turned out to be a fine lexative!

You are right I actually loved St. Pete, more colorful than Moskau. In any case, we did meet some beautiful female Russia students, since the trip was sponsored through a youth organization.
And some ugly Russian guys!

But everything seemed devoid of life.

It is good to have seen it, but I can not blame anyone for wanting to leave it behind. Even if you call it home.

You are right, I loved the Russian Venice... thanks, for reminding me!

Posted by: Ironheart

I wouldnt mind seeing the white nights

Posted by: Arnold

White Knights? Sorry, I don't understand?

I only know pink elephants!

Posted by: Charles

Hello Arnold,
I have not seen any of the older movies you mention. Do you think the female leads in such old movies were sexy or stereotypical? I will trust your opinion. Viven Leigh was hot, in that cold fish but beautiful way.

I know men's sexual fantasies reflect contemporary culture and trends. I have seen turn of the century porn movies. The silent dialogue is preferable to the modern kind. Plots have not changed much in 100 years.

Though the difference in film speed helps the comedy factor.

Posted by: Arnold

Well, Charles if you do a search on the net, there is a Greta Garbo site. I think, Bullwinkels Natasha may have been based on this actress. Also Vivien Leigh has characteristics similar to Greta G. Sorry, I don't have a link ready.

You are right of course, when you point out that tastes change over time. Greta, Vivien, and Natasha were all brunettes, but the Bond babes were blondes if I recall this correctly?

Also there was a change in chest (breast) size, eye color, etc.

I guess, what ever was considerate appealing or exotic in the West would become the stereotypical mold for the Russian woman as portrayed in the movies.

Posted by: Charles

That is a really good point!

Posted by: andrei

Just popped in to say all that talk about switching to metrics was just a kidding thing. Dont take me too serious people. Of course I could convert all that by myself I was just too lazy that's why I made Conner do that for me so thanx to him))))))))))))

Posted by: Bordric

Quote:

Originally posted by Ironheart
I wouldnt mind seeing the white nights

Are you talking about the Midnight Sun?

Our sun in the middle of summer does not go across the sky. It kinda comes up and zig zags around and circles and goes really low about 2 am or so and then pops back up for more zig zagging.

Not sure what this has to do with Porn but there you go.

Posted by: lolomarseille

Quote:

Originally posted by ConnerVT
5'9" (5 feet 9 inches) would make him average height.

But then, I always thought that women invented the Metric system, because stating they are 75 Kg sounds much more flattering than saying they weigh 165 pounds...

FRENCH MEN did....

Posted by: lolomarseille

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2004/11/03/003.html

Posted by: Pawel_PL.USA

I think that some sleezy, nasty, cocky American guys see Russian women as such and pursue them for the reason that no decent American or Western women would look at them twice ... but a poor and unfortunate Russian woman desperate to get out of that hell is another thing. In all of this my heart bleeds for all those Russian women exploited and taken advantage of by many American or Western a**holes.

Posted by: lolomarseille

true

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Quote:

Originally posted by Pawel_PL.USA
I think that some sleezy, nasty, cocky American guys see Russian women as such and pursue them for the reason that no decent American or Western women would look at them twice ... but a poor and unfortunate Russian woman desperate to get out of that hell is another thing. In all of this my heart bleeds for all those Russian women exploited and taken advantage of by many American or Western a**holes.

That cuts both ways friend

. First, this topic is dealing with extremes. You have a small percentage of men who are, as you put it, Sleazy. You also have a small percentage of women who are exploiting men. I dislike trying to stereotype this because it is taking the extremes and painting them as the accepted norm.

I for one do not agree that it is �many� American or Western men. I do agree that there are some who are approaching things from a bias as you describe. I would say that the percentage of men and women who are exploiting the opposite sex are probably roughly equal. On one hand, the party doing the exploitation is obviously someone who has no moral fiber and is utterly despicable. On the other hand, unless the person doing the exploitation is exceptionally gifted at deception, the person being exploited has a minimal level of accountability for there own actions. I feel no more pity for a man who ignores OBVIOUS signs that a woman is with him for reasons other than love than I do for a woman who is with a man who is obviously as you describe. Both parties made decisions and ignored obvious warning signs in most cases.

Posted by: sidney

To add to this robohioguy, Many of these potential problems can be solved with time. Don't rush into a relationship. Thru time you will get to know and understand better the other person and what problems will surface.
Sid

Posted by: ConnerVT

Rob, no hard facts here, but a bunch of anecdotal data I've gathered over the past two years from agency owners, interpreters, Russian friends and others. Although the out-and-out extreme "sleazy" sex-tourist is only a small minority, a large percent (perhaps over 50%) of the men really have no business in going to the FSU for marriage purposes. They are unprepared both for the trip and to handle a relationship that would lead to marriage. They lack the financial means and/or the social skills necessary to make a sound decision or to be a better spouse than a woman would find in her own country.

But there are problems on both sides of the fence. Not every woman saying they wish a Western husband is sincere and wonderful. Besides those who only put their profile out there to earn $$$, there are also some who look for that green card meal ticket, the good time girls who are happy to spend your money when you visit and share your generous gifts with their boyfriend at home, those who aren't really interested (either signed up with a friend or was recruited on a model search), and some that are just plain flat out crazy (I've personally met two in that last category).

What we can lump together as the "MOB Industry" is a crazy and potentially dangerous place. With that said, it also affords an opportunity for those who have their head screwed on straight to find someone very special. It takes taking objective viewpoints of something that is very subjective in nature.

edit: Corrected for the proper use of 'their'

Posted by: rob_we

ConnerVT

Quote:

Although the out-and-out extreme "sleazy" sex-tourist is only a small minority, a large percent (perhaps over 50%) of the men really have no business in going to the FSU for marriage purposes. They are unprepared both for the trip and to handle a relationship that would lead to marriage. They lack the financial means and/or the social skills necessary to make a sound decision or to be a better spouse than a woman would find in her own country.

I guess your quite right with this. The problem is that from the girls point of view, it is not so easy to figure out if its a "sleazy" one from the beginning ,or someone who figured out after some time, that he´s not really able to "make it". The problem is that the result is quite often the same, ending in some "whateverexplanation" to the girls why it doesnt work out or the "insight" of the girl better to dump the guy....
So the global percentage for the girls getting a flop is quite high...
I´d guess all in all over 90%. This of course, gives the scammer picture of most western guys to them, as it does on the other side of the fence. And it gets more and more difficult for both sides. Each reaction provokes a "gotcha" on the other side.... it´s sad but true....

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Quote:

Originally posted by ConnerVT
Rob, no hard facts here, but a bunch of anecdotal data I've gathered over the past two years from agency owners, interpreters, Russian friends and others. Although the out-and-out extreme "sleazy" sex-tourist is only a small minority, a large percent (perhaps over 50%) of the men really have no business in going to the FSU for marriage purposes. They are unprepared both for the trip and to handle a relationship that would lead to marriage. They lack the financial means and/or the social skills necessary to make a sound decision or to be a better spouse than a woman would find in her own country.

But there are problems on both sides of the fence. Not every woman saying they wish a Western husband is sincere and wonderful. Besides those who only put there profile out there to earn $$$, there are also some who look for that green card meal ticket, the good time girls who are happy to spend your money when you visit and share your generous gifts with their boyfriend at home, those who aren't really interested (either signed up with a friend or was recruited on a model search), and some that are just plain flat out crazy (I've personally met two in that last category).

What we can lump together as the "MOB Industry" is a crazy and potentially dangerous place. With that said, it also affords an opportunity for those who have their head screwed on straight to find someone very special. It takes taking objective viewpoints of something that is very subjective in nature.

Most of this should be blamed on the guy IMHO. That is why most of my responses deal with the guy having it together. E.G. be desirable dating material. Be in as good physical condition as you can. Have at least some basic fashion sense. Have exceptional hygiene habits both for your person and your personal space. Have the kind of home that makes a woman comfortable. Work on your personal and social skills. Have a full and fulfilling personal life.... man that is so important that its not even funny. When a person has a full, fulfilling life, they don't NEED someone to fill that void in there life.

When that aspect of your life is pretty much under control, then when you enter the dating scene be it in your home country or in the FSU you are confident because its a by-product of your lifestyle. You communicate (nonverbally) confidence, self reliance, self assuredness. You come across as a man who has a clear sense of direction for what and where he is headed in life... all of these things are things that most women respond to and interpret as being "attractive and desirable" in a man.

Can this guy (as described above) be scammed? Sure... but its much less likely. Why? Because the majority of criminals prey on the weak. They look for and attack weakness. Women, in general, respond very positively to men who are confident, who exude an aura of confidence that persona or aura is viewed as strength... not typically the quality a scam artist is looking to exploit.

I agree that the foreign dating approach is a crazy environment. That is why it is imperative to maintain control of your emotions in the early courtship phase with any woman.

Particularly with someone you are dating who lives thousands of miles from home. When you don't make huge emotional investments, it is easier to think clearly and observe behavior. When any party is acting contrary to there words, there is a major problem.

Of the men I have personally met that have gone to the FSU, all of them, every single one of them, were HIGHLY successful executives, owners of successful business or doctors and lawyers. I'm sure that there are men as you described but I have not personally met any of the type of men you discribe. Of the men I have met pursuing a wife from the FSU, the line of reasoning is the same. They seek attractive, intelligent women who posses a mind set about clearly defined gender roles that fit what the US held up until about 1970.**

Ultimately, there is no assurance that even if you do all of the "right" things that a marriage will work out. It takes 2 people to make a marriage work. If both people give 100% selflessly, then a marriage will work 100 out of 100 times. Marriage is NOT 50/50 Marriage is about learning to live for the other person. Marriage is about not what can you do for me.... but rather, what can I do for you? When BOTH people do that absolutely nothing can come between them. Unfortunately, in today's world with all of the pressures placed upon people that is the type of commitment it takes to make a marriage work.

Rant off.... lol

** For those of you who espouse feminist views, that is your perogative but I neither agree nor desire to discuss, debate or argue with you. I do not want to hear about how you and your position is the only right view on such matters and the rest of us who do not agree with such a view are wrong.

Posted by: sidney

Quote:

Marriage is NOT 50/50

RobOhioGuy I have a friend who has been married for more then 35 years and gives this same advise. He says if you give 50/50 one or both will feel cheated. You have to be willing to go that extra mile or more. I feel it good advise that does work.
Sid

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by RobOhioGuy
Of the men I have personally met that have gone to the FSU, all of them, every single one of them, were HIGHLY successful executives, owners of successful business or doctors and lawyers. I'm sure that there are men as you described but I have not personally met any of the type of men you discribe.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I have met men who were pretty clueless at what they were doing in Russia, and they were (in least there own definition) successful business owners and professionals.

I also met a few others that you might know -- A cowboy from Canada, a friend of his who works in a casino in Canada, and a former truck driver from the Southwest who now teaches ESL in St. Petersburg. None of them are major business success stories, but each is making a successful life together with their own Russian woman.

I do agree that it takes a confident man who is willing to walk away from the wrong situation, and he must also possess the ability to see things clearly with his mind as well as his heart.

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Rob, no hard facts here, but a bunch of anecdotal data I've gathered over the past two years from agency owners, interpreters, Russian friends and others. Although the out-and-out extreme "sleazy" sex-tourist is only a small minority, a large percent (perhaps over 50%) of the men really have no business in going to the FSU for marriage purposes. They are unprepared both for the trip and to handle a relationship that would lead to marriage. They lack the financial means and/or the social skills necessary to make a sound decision or to be a better spouse than a woman would find in her own country.

I can't believe this, but I agree with Conner!

I've encountered some REAL bus wrecks in Ukraine. As my job there required frequent travel, I occasionally ran into some of these guys in hotel bars and all I can say about the majority of them is YIKES!

Once in a while I would stumble upon one of those "socials" in the hotel lobby and I would chat with some of the guys there (they were usually happy to talk to an English speaker), and, again, the majority were just clueless about the FSU as well as about women in general (in my opinion). And there were some on their third or fourth trip!

Yes, I KNOW there are also many sincere, educated, successful American men looking for FSU brides. But I've seen a lot of dorks as well.

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

But there are problems on both sides of the fence. Not every woman saying they wish a Western husband is sincere and wonderful. Besides those who only put there profile out there to earn $$$, there are also some who look for that green card meal ticket, the good time girls who are happy to spend your money when you visit and share your generous gifts with their boyfriend at home, those who aren't really interested (either signed up with a friend or was recruited on a model search), and some that are just plain flat out crazy (I've personally met two in that last category).

Also VERY true. I once posted on RMP an ad I came across in a Ukrainian newspaper for women interested in joining a marriage agency. The ad specifically stated that this agency is for you if you want foreign men to take you out to dinner in expensive restaurants and to buy you gifts. So is it any wonder?

Posted by: mria

Quote:

Originally posted by Jill
I've encountered some REAL bus wrecks in Ukraine.

Bus wrecks!!!JILL!! I'm still giggling to meself. How did you coin that phrase? Is it Ukrainian or American?

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

How did you coin that phrase? Is it Ukrainian or American?

It seems I first heard it several years ago from a gay man in New York. Don't know the real origins, though....

Posted by: ConnerVT

Jill, me thinks you've been East too long.

I believe the phrase comes from "...a train wreck waiting to happen..."

I did get a chuckle from your descritive use of the word "dorks".

Posted by: Pin Boy

Yes, I got a kick out of "dorks" cause I know what you mean. Saw some of them myself around Ukraine.

The expression as I most often here it to describe a person is "A (real) train wreck!"

Sorta like the U.S. Prez and those who voted for him....just throwin' a little gas on the fire round the RMP Forum

Pin Boy

Posted by: povlhp

As for the men going on "sex tours" - they do that to everywhere. And if you talk porn industry, it exists in every country where it is legal.

The men I know with russian viwes are all in the computer business. Being the calm nice persons, who started dating a bit late.

As for the people going on sex-tours or visiting prostitutes, I have seen it done my labor union executives, sales people, other executives, and the losers. And the losers usually also picks local loser women who they can control.

Not sure how many danish men are just looking for sex in Russia. Ukraine has a reputation of having lots of young girls, many going to the west as "dancers" to end in brothels. And lots of them being easy victims, since they are so poor.

Personally, I would not start netdating an ukrainean girl, since I consider the risk of her looking for a ticket out rather than a houseband to be too large. I am looking for a real relationship where we both seek the long time relationship, life together, children etc.

If I get offered sex on the first night when I visit a girl in Russia, I will most likely reject, and then spend the night reconsidering if she is the right one. Will think about her motives again. Sex after some days might be OK though, but not if I am going to dump her, as I know it will hurt even more.

Posted by: GreenBarb

I am off to Russia next February and by then I will be in contact with my special lady for over six months. I think people should use webcams when talking as you can see the other persons reaction to questions or your answers. As for the issue of sex that is something that has to be decided between the couple. Each one must respect the other first. I am from Ireland and before I started net dating I knew that there would be certain things that I had to make up my mind about, what I wanted in a woman from Russia. I knew and was willing to accept that there would be differences in culture and attitudes.