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Tax and salary
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Posted by: kartoshka

Hi everybody!
I have a question, which is not related to relationship.
I am a student now in one institute and plan to work in few years.
My husband earns good income, but he isn't going to share with me his income when I'll be working (he financially supports me only now while I am a student). He pays 30% tax + 8+4% (we are living in New York).
I was recently told that even if I will be earning average income I will be paying as big Taxes as my husband pays. Is there any way to prove that I don't participate in spending his income and to pay less income for my future salary?

Hope somebody knows the advice
Thanks
kartoshka

Posted by: waiting123

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartoshka

Hi everybody!
I have a question, which is not related to relationship.
I am a student now in one institute and plan to work in few years.
My husband earns good income, but he isn't going to share with me his income when I'll be working (he financially supports me only now while I am a student). He pays 30% tax + 8+4% (we are living in New York).
I was recently told that even if I will be earning average income I will be paying as big Taxes as my husband pays. Is there any way to prove that I don't participate in spending his income and to pay less income for my future salary?

Hope somebody knows the advice
Thanks
kartoshka

Welcome to RMP Kartoshka!

If you are both working and you file jointly, then yes, you will both be in the same tax bracket, because you will be combining your income for tax purposes. BUT, if you are "married filing single", then no you will be in the tax bracket according to your income, but you will lack most of if not all the deductions, and he will be in his own tax bracket, and have most or all of the deductions. Here is the Federal tax table for 2005

I do not know the New York tax brackets. If you live in NY city, you have a triple tax, Federal, State, and City. But you will not pay the highest tax in either 3 locales if you file "married but single"

*Please consult a tax consultant for specifics in your situation, I have provided you very general advice.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Man... I am in a hole and all I do is keep digging.. WHY??????

First, Kartoshka... welcome to the board... please do not get offended with this question... but why would your husband NOT want to support you??? You are married are you not??

But, to your question.. you will not have to pay his high rates, but you will be paying higher rates than if you were single... you do not get all the same deductions and your tax brackets are closer (ie, you pay the higher rate sooner).. so, you will be paying big taxes...

Now, I do not know about the NY taxes.. I was lucky and my company paid them.. and since I am single I did not have to worry about a spouse income... but I think you will pay a pretty penny there also..

Posted by: waiting123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

Man... I am in a hole and all I do is keep digging.. WHY??????

First, Kartoshka... welcome to the board... please do not get offended with this question... but why would your husband NOT want to support you??? You are married are you not??

But, to your question.. you will not have to pay his high rates, but you will be paying higher rates than if you were single... you do not get all the same deductions and your tax brackets are closer (ie, you pay the higher rate sooner).. so, you will be paying big taxes...

Now, I do not know about the NY taxes.. I was lucky and my company paid them.. and since I am single I did not have to worry about a spouse income... but I think you will pay a pretty penny there also..

I was waiting for you to help with this one Texas.!!! Thanks!

I do wonder the same question... Why does your husband not want to split assets he makes as a marital asset? Why does he not want to support his and your family?

I will also probably dig a whole with this one!

Posted by: kartoshka

thanks everybody, especially waiting123, I'll save attachment in my computer.
it'll be two years since I'll start working, and I think if it'll be convenient for me to separate assets then my husband will do it, he isn't a monster.
he is supporting me now quite well. he pays for my education for the next two or three years, gives me $1000 every month, let me to travel to ukraine twice in a year etc.... But he wants me to work and help family in future...We will see, if I will have some his financial protection for my retirement, then I'll help him, if not, then I'll do my own savings and investments.
I don't know maybe you guys are all rich and give lots of money to your girlfriends and don't ask them to report every penny, but I've heard there some guys who don't do it at all, and they ask their wives to run to work since the first day of the marriage, don't want them to have any education, or when support them they ask them to report about every penny.
My husband neither rich nor poor, but he was divorced, pays huge aliments (which doesn't make me feel very happy) , but he is nice and educated person, so I feel quite comfortable now. If one day when I'll go to work, he'll make me to spend all my money on family and don't let me to save money for my retirement, then......you know what can happen;-) I am open for every nice possibility:-) Marriage is not a prison, and it make sense to be married when everything is balanced, if not, then not. I am yonger then he is and he understands what possibilities I can have when I'll earn my own money;-)
Anyway, I love him and apreciate for what he is doing for me now, as much as i apreciate for your useful replay. It's a nice website here with nice people.
Take care
Kartoshka

Posted by: swindoom

I find it a lttle strange you talk about "his" money and "your" money. When my wife first moved to England I explained that the money I was payed was "our" money, not "my" money, we are a family and we share everything, it is "our" home, "our" car etc..
Now she has a job , her pay is paid into our joint account and even though my pay is about 6 times hers she still understands it is "our" money in "our" joint account. I do not keep track of what she spends but for major purchases we discuss things, such as we need a new fridge/freezer we have talked about the maximum we will spend, next we will visit the shop together and decide which one "we" want, then find it cheaper on the internet. I always thought a marriage was meant to be a partnership not a takeover.

Posted by: j_c

Quote:

Originally Posted by swindoom

I find it a lttle strange you talk about "his" money and "your" money. When my wife first moved to England I explained that the money I was payed was "our" money, not "my" money, we are a family and we share everything, it is "our" home, "our" car etc..
Now she has a job , her pay is paid into our joint account and even though my pay is about 6 times hers she still understands it is "our" money in "our" joint account. I do not keep track of what she spends but for major purchases we discuss things, such as we need a new fridge/freezer we have talked about the maximum we will spend, next we will visit the shop together and decide which one "we" want, then find it cheaper on the internet. I always thought a marriage was meant to be a partnership not a takeover.

Swindoom

No,no,no,no,no.....you may think this, but really , your money is hers, and her money is hers!!!lol

Regards

JC

Posted by: davidg

Also, with a name like kartochka....

Posted by: Texas Proud

Kartoska,

I am glad that you have a good marriage in your opinion.. and guess what, YOUR opinion is the only one that counts!!!!

But like others have said, it does seem a little strange.. like he is already walling off his assets knowing that sometime in the future you two will get a divorce.. just what it looks like to me..

I will give an example.. there was this woman at work that went back to her class reunion... met the guy she 'loved' in high school.. he proposed to her!! So, she went home, got a divorce from her husband of 10 years.. moved back to her hometown with her three children and got married... after three years, he wanted a divorce... she was wondering why!!! Well, she was his FOURTH wife.. the prior three all lasted 3 years.... kind of saw a history here... but, she was in love etc. etc...

I am not saying that you are not in love with him, but has he committed fully to the marriage?? And AGAIN... YOUR opinion is the controlling one here.. I do not have to live you life.. if you like what you have enjoy the heck out of it...

Posted by: j_c

I Know of a few couples who are friends of mine , some married , some not (none of them have kids) who do not "share" their income. They each have their own income , and put a pre agreed amount ino a joint account to cover the bills, holidays etc...they all look after their own affairs , ie pensions , savings , healthcare etc.

I dont find it hard to understand kartoschka's situaton, don't agree with it , but stil understand and accept that in some relationships it happens!

JC

Posted by: swindoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by j_c

Swindoom

No,no,no,no,no.....you may think this, but really , your money is hers, and her money is hers!!!lol

Regards

JC

Probably true but she always likes me to be around when she spends it, which I do not mind especially after a beer or two then I am quite happy to wander around womens clothes shops, with her.

Posted by: kartoshka

you know guys, about separating incomes and assets ....when I went to him , i didn't expect that he would prepare marriage contract, and what is more I didn't expect that he would prepare bad marriage contract. he gives me education, financial support(until I'll earn salary), and life insurance. that's it. his daughter from previous marriage is beneficiary of all his assets, even retirement savings. I don't mind against it, but everything should be devided proportionally, between her, me and our future children. you would probably say, why, that I didn't bring any money to my family (as he told me many time, excusing himself that he gave me bad marriage contract).I even can't inherit apartment when we are living. then OK, I will earn my own money, and will do my own savings, develop my own business or invest money....but when I told him about that, he answered that he expects me to help him to pay morgage for apartment (for apartment which I am not owner, and which belong to his trust, which will be divided between only his daughether and out future children), or he expects me to spend 3/4 of my future salary on our family....I was asking him if he is going to spend on our family 3/4 too, it was silence in the answer.
so who is thinking about divorce?;-) in this case I am only thinking about doing my savings and protect my future when I'll be retired.
I love him anyway, I give him time to know me and if in future he plans to ask me about my salary, then I will ask him to cancel contract or at least significantly improve it.
I agree with guys who share everything with wives, and their wives share everything with them. I am more into this sceme than into dividing on my and yours.
But anyway, as my friend says, don't cut the cake which is hasn't cooked yet;-) We will see.

Posted by: cedarwind

To me this does not seem right but maybe your husband is just concerned as what happened in his last marriage.

Here is a little advice�when you start to work and your husband makes you pay for apartment and all other things. Keep a log book and also tell husband that you want receipt for �rent�. Keep all of these items in a safe place not in the home�like put them at work or with a friend. IE some place your husband can not get them. And keep then forever even if you see no reason to keep them any more.

This way if you do get a divorce or when husband dies you can give these to a lawyer. If the lawyer can prove that the husband did not do the prenuptial paper in good faith it will be nun and void. Also if you can prove that you have been paying at least ½ the mortgage on the apartment you will still be entitled to some part of the worth of the apartment. No matter what the paper says.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Kartoshka,

Glad to see you are a smart cookie...

But, I can see he planned this well... putting assets into a trust before you got married.. it is one of the ways men are taught to minimize the damage when you get a divorce...

I do not know what state you live.. but I do not think it matters... because I think it is federal laws this next statement resides... Your husband can not leave his retirement savings to his children... by law, (and know that I am NOT a lawer, so you get what you pay for here.. which means go research on your own)... but, by law when you get married, the wife is automatically the beneficiary unless SHE SIGNS away her right to receive them.. as long as you do not sign anything.. you would get them if he unfortunately dies....

Now, the apartment things I think is in state law... but some states give the wife a 'life interest' in the home even if it is willed to the children... but, since it is in the trust, I do not know how it would be disposed... so, WHEN THE TIME COMES... consult a lawyer as to your rights.. you might have more than you think...

Another thing... if he is not careful, and he moves assets back and forth between marrital assets and the trust, you can make a claim on the trust... so, agree to pay the mortgage on the apartment and then you have established that connection.... sneaky, but he seems to want to be also...

A question.. how long have you been married... it sounds like he got burned his first marriage and is trying to protect himself... so you might be right.. time will heal this and you will be taken care of down the road..

Posted by: waiting123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

I do not know what state you live.. but I do not think it matters... because I think it is federal laws this next statement resides... Your husband can not leave his retirement savings to his children... by law, (and know that I am NOT a lawer, so you get what you pay for here.. which means go research on your own)... but, by law when you get married, the wife is automatically the beneficiary unless SHE SIGNS away her right to receive them.. as long as you do not sign anything.. you would get them if he unfortunately dies....

Very true Texas... This is accurate...The wife is always the primary beneficiary of a pension or retirement plan unless the wife signs a waiver for that specific plan. A pre-nup does not supersede this.

Katoshka...Do not sign any waivers giving up your rntitlement to his retirement.

Posted by: waiting123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

Another thing... if he is not careful, and he moves assets back and forth between marrital assets and the trust, you can make a claim on the trust... so, agree to pay the mortgage on the apartment and then you have established that connection.... sneaky, but he seems to want to be also...

We talked about this is another thread entitled Prenup....With Ham... Remeber Texas. I was al for trust to protect assets... Hmmmm, me has heard this strategy before

Posted by: NO_MERCY

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartoshka

but when I told him about that, he answered that he expects me to help him to pay morgage for apartment (for apartment which I am not owner, and which belong to his trust, which will be divided between only his daughether and out future children), or he expects me to spend 3/4 of my future salary on our family...

Kartoshka, everything that happens to you should be under your own control. And its seems that now it is. He has already took advantage of you by making you sign a "bad" marriage agreement. It was a mistake on your part too. But now you need to try to correct it or at least not to let him take more advantage of you. If your husband wants you to participate in paying morgage for the house, he needs to make changes to the marriage agreement. You need to start investing into your own retirement when you get a job and your husband can not effect it. A lot of companies offer what is called 401K. Its a retirement plan and the company takes money directly from your pay check and matches them. There are some rules to it, but your husband can not forbid you to put the money into your retirement. You can also open IRAs and in some cases you can get some money invested into your IRA back on your tax return. As far as your tax return goes - You can file jointly with your husband, or you can file separately. Filining separetly can deprive you from a bunch of tax credits, but most of them are related to children and if you have none - you should not worry about it. By the way - you filing separetly will force him to file the same way, so he might lose his credits as well (if he has eligible children) so it could be used as a tool in your negotiations. I dont know your situation, you need to discuss it with a tax professional.

Posted by: NO_MERCY

[QUOTE=Texas Proud]I do not know what state you live.. but I do not think it matters... because I think it is federal laws this next statement resides... Your husband can not leave his retirement savings to his children... by law, (and know that I am NOT a lawer, so you get what you pay for here.. which means go research on your own)... but, by law when you get married, the wife is automatically the beneficiary unless SHE SIGNS away her right to receive them.. as long as you do not sign anything.. QUOTE]

Are we talking about SS or other retirement funds? I am not sure, but I have heard something about some sort of seniority between the ex-wife and a recent wife. I dont exactly remember what it is, but it was about whose marriage lasted longer.. I am not sure.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally Posted by NO_MERCY

Are we talking about SS or other retirement funds? I am not sure, but I have heard something about some sort of seniority between the ex-wife and a recent wife. I dont exactly remember what it is, but it was about whose marriage lasted longer.. I am not sure.

No Mercy.. I was talking about his retirement accounts at work... whatever kind of pension he might have.. including cash balance accounts, 401(k), etc... and this is with his 'wife' not an ex-wife.. The ex got her share when they were divorced, so has not claim on the funds (unless in their divorce they agreed to do something when they retired, but that is unusual)...

As for SS etc... I do not know.. I think both can get a spousal benefit.. but remember that when a wife applies for SS, she gets either the spousal benefit or what she has earned, whichever is greater... since she is about to start working, I will assume she will earn enough to get a better payment on her own wages... she did not say her age, but I think she is a bit younger than her husband..

And I agree with you... she should take a long look at her marriage.. and determine if it is right for her... but only she can make that decision no matter how we might feel.. love does some strange things to people's minds!!

Posted by: kartoshka

yes, I am yonger than he is, I am 34 now, but I am not 22 years, so I hope to be the best in my university to get good promotion in a few years. thanks for all advice, I'll save it in Microsoft word. As I feel for today (without salary) I can't ask him to change contract (it was once, he said if you aren't satisfied then you can divorce me). I will do it after I'll start earning money, and I am not going to pay any rents, but better to invest in something profitable + put money for retirement. All this things upset me, so I am trying to think more about interesting things in life, education, museum...etc
I still can't undesrtand how such lovely person as my husband could put me in such conditions.... but probably kapitalism exsist not only in economics but also relationship, your money - your rules....I really envy to couples where people do everything together and don't separate on my and yours...
OK , have a great time evrybody, I am running to cook borsh (I am the bset in it....ha-ha)

Posted by: EasyTarget

Kartoshka:

There are so many variable as to what is going on with the financial situation. I would not blame him for trying to protect his assests IN CASE you got a divorce a year or two after being married. One thing you didn't mention was how long have you been married?

Several states have clauses that start to diminish the impact of a pre-nuptial agreement the longer you have been married. I know that some states basically throw out the pre-nuptial agreement if you have been married for more then 7 years.

It is all sort of tricky.

The best situation is to do what you are doing. Finish your education, build strength in your relationship which will build trust, and then by that time you will have a job and you will know where your marriage is heading. Your friend is right don't cut the cake just yet...

Posted by: kartoshka

The best situation is to do what you are doing. Finish your education, build strength in your relationship which will build trust, and then by that time you will have a job and you will know where your marriage is heading. Your friend is right don't cut the cake just yet...[/QUOTE]

Yes, you are right...that why I am concentrated on cooking borsh now;-)
but why your mood is sad?;-) I want to find some phsycology books to clean my mind and have positive view on life. I was married less than a year, but I loved my husband when I forgot this prenup, and was crying and hating him when I thought about prenup. Enough for me. If I can't change the situation then I change my attitude to situation. It would be interesting to read something how to grow into quality person, who achives goals and gives insted of dreaming what to receive... Now I am reading Freakonomics, very interesting...

Posted by: NO_MERCY

[QUOTE=kartoshka]
I still can't undesrtand how such lovely person as my husband could put me in such conditions.... but probably kapitalism exsist not only in economics but also relationship, your money - your rules....[QUOTE]

Rules are not connected with money. At all. Remember how many times in Russia have you seen a woman working hard, earning much more than her husband, cleaning-cooking-raising kids while her lazy husband drinks and cheats and even hits her and rules are all his. You probably know a couple of examples on how a smart girl completely "ruled" her husband's finances to her pocket. I have just re-read Chekhov's stories, if you happen to come across one of them - "Perepoloh" - it could be of some help to you. Its a bitter story of a rich guy, a businessman, who was pressed into submission by his wife so much, that he had to steal his own jewlery from his wife, because she would not give him any money. Each man has his own weakness, but if a woman is smart, she finds this weakness and exploits it. You husband has found this "key" to you, and it looks like he is using it successfully - "divorce". Some guys married to RW use GC as a "key" to submission. Guilt and sex are among most commonly used by women, but there are others. The smarter a man, the more sofisticated are his weaknesses. It takes time and observation to figure out, but since you are not 22 yo and have some life experience, it should not be very hard. Good luck.