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You know it's a scam, now what?
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Posted by: LookingfromMO

This may seem like a silly question at first, but let me explain. Has anyone out there played things out with a scammer, just to have some fun and see when the scam attempt comes? Has anyone given any personal information to a scammer, and wondered how best to break things off so that no further problems may come of it?
Fat Borris - aka - Lyuda, made a HUGE mistake in his last email. I will copy and paste for your amusement. "You will allow me to name you BELOVED Alan? I also would want, that you named me BELOVED ELENA!
This letter demanded from me the whole 2 hours to write! I shall go now and I wait your letters. Bye my loved Alan. Heave nice day. Yours forever, Lyuda."
OOPS - accidently filled in a wrong name their Borris, it is Lyuda that writes to me, not Elena! LMAO
So I will not reply to this email, this just gives Fat Borris a chance to catch the mistake. Instead I will start a new email, but now the question is what to say. Or is it best to just stop now with no reply?
I never got my hopes up with this lady, after all the chances were great that it was a scam - (contacted through match.com, no phone number, etc) In a way I look at this as a good experience, I have researched Russian women and their way of life extensively, and because of this scam attempt I now find myself truely wanting to meet a REAL Russian woman. So the question I have is simply what to do next. The pictures are becoming more and more sexy, the story deeper and deeper. Even mum and daddy now love me! I have also given this scammer my cell number. I know the information one can collect from a cell number, I used a cell number to bust my now ex-wife. I knew EVERYTHING about the guy on the other end of that number with just a c-note and the services of a PI. Do I risk pissing someone off. Do scammers simply move on or do they use information to try to cause more problems? Do I say I met someone and break it off, never mentioning that I know of the scam? All advice is welcome.
So tell me guys, is Elanas Models the place to go to meet a real woman? All suggestions are welcomed. Thanks
Alan

Posted by: Pin Boy

alan,

i like your idea to say you met someone and are turning your attention elsewhere and just letting it die. i am no tech expert, but i don't believe you're at any risk for fraud from "her" having your cell number. spend your precious time on authentic prospects. good luck.

pin boy

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Alan be careful woth the Russian name thingy. Some names are the sam thing and with some of them the difference betweeen them is a level of intimacy, with others it is the name the lady would prefer to be called by people who are close to her etc

I know of some such as Ksenia and Oksana are the same name yet who gets to use them depends on the owners choice. So that may or may not be a red flag. You may be reading way to much into this although I do not think so I just think you are reading the wrong things.

The last thing I would say to you is, if you have your mind made up that this is a scam then just drop it and leave it alone. If you play their game then you are just as bad as they are. The other thing is if you are wrong and you turn it into a game for your own amusement then you are deliberately hurting an innocent person who in actual fact is simply looking for love just like you theoretically are.

The above is simply MHO.

Posted by: Chrismc

Just drop it and move on...why waste any more time on this, pointless excercise anyway as they will just move on to the next one, you will be one of many, maybe dozens, maybe hundreds he/she is writing too anyway!!

Doesn't matter to them what you say or do....it is just a numbers game!!! in their eyes.

Posted by: Chrismc

Alan

Back to what I said in the last thread...start writing to a few more yourself, there are some good sites out there, just pick the ones you want to correspond with, butmake sure after a few emails if things seem OK get her phone number and call her, it is the easiest and best way to decide if she is worth pursuing further.

Chris

Posted by: ham

tell them to go to hell

Posted by: sidney

I'd give her the line about your sick pet needing an expensive operation and asking for money to help.
Sid

Posted by: Pin Boy

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidney

I'd give her the line about your sick pet needing an expensive operation and asking for money to help.
Sid

never heard that!! good one!

along those lines, i overheard someone reply to a person on the street who asked for money, "i was just gonna ask you the same thing!"

my advice, leave it alone.

pin boy

Posted by: Cheburashka

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidney

I'd give her the line about your sick pet needing an expensive operation and asking for money to help.
Sid

Should we stoop to their level, or be the bigger person and just move on?

Posted by: mmmikeeeee

I to have had the same thing happen to me only at the match.com and yahoo I met about 10 different girls each with different storys but it all seemed so formatted after a while you can see that something is not right but the pictures and the way it is written holds your intrest one day i got the same letter to the word from to different girls at first I thoght I had made a mistake but after I looked again it was the same letter two different girls so that what made me search out more info and thats when I found this site wish there was a way to get this out to more people it makes you understand this so much better good luck with your adventure in all of this it is a roller coaster ride. your also dammed if you do and dammed if you dont.

Posted by: Texas Proud

My quick two cents.... but, you did not say she asked for money... and like others have said, some women use different names at different times... my GF gave me a few.. once I asked who "XXX " is.. she said.. "it is ME"..

If there are no other signs of scam.. then just ask.. if you feel like there are other signs.. like others have said, move on... just leave it alone..

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Move on and forget this one. Yes Elena's models is for real. I met my future wife on this site. I'm nothing special but she thinks I am. Never dated a more beautiful, kind, caring, intelligent, and loving woman in my life. I'm a lucky man! Begin your search again for the true love of a RW, you won't be disappointed. Get serious and good luck.

Posted by: scam buster

Hi, I play with these scammers all the time. the only personal info I give them is my cell phone if they ask. They can't use that to steal your identity, give them nothing more. If you can accept mail at work you can use their address if she wants your address. I started trying to find a good wife and keep hearing one scam after the next. I have changed to just playing with them. I have done extensive research and if anyone needs help finding if they are being scammed or not please IM me or contact me some how and I will check it out.

This girl that was trying to scam LookingfromMO is still at it or someone using her script. She is now going by the name galina but using the same letters.

They use different photos. This might even be a man. They will be scamming girls to and use their photos to email us men and if you send her a bunch of photos she might be using your pics to scam some woman.

Posted by: nocomfortzone

I really don't understand you people that play around with scammers. I guess i could understand it if you got scammed and were trying to get them back but overall if you get down it the dirt and play with the energy of shady characters you'll only bring your own energy down aswell.

Same with the nonsense i heard about anti-date site and too tall. He played around with some photo that was not him and then apparently made things worse for himself. Some of you people are just not smart and mess around with the wrong circles either against them or whatever. If you lie down with fleas....

Posted by: Jerico

Quote:

I really don't understand you people that play around with scammers

Well I dont know about doing it to potential scam artist on the mail order bride scene but i have heard of websites devoted to taking money from the Nigerian Scammers and find that hilarious.
They hold up signs you send them to see it they are real people and the signs are cussing in English. However they cant read English I guess ,LOL
Some funny crap as they post the pictures on the websites and just milk these potential scammers to death.
Hehehe Like I said funny crap.
Jerry

Posted by: Turboguy

I have a feeling that a lot of the ones that try playing games with the scammers are just people without a life. Until you have made your first trip to the FSU you haven't lived anyway. Once you are seriously involved it takes all your free time and you don't have any time left for playing games.

Posted by: scam buster

Sorry guys don't take offense. I don't go out trying to find scammers like some of the people do. I have been trying to find some one to be with. I am a good looking guy with a lot to offer (i dont tell them that) but I have had so many women try to scam me its ridiculous. So, I play back with them and I have studied the smart way to do it. The main thing is the good guys (like me) that catch the dating scammers is not to screw with them so much, but to get as much info from them as possible so if you feel your being scammed you can google sections of their letter and find that your are indeed talking to a scammer. These people use scripts and we all need to help each other.

I have read here and on some other sites of people posting some of their ladies letters and no one was sure if it was a scam. Had I of found these forums and post back months ago when they were posted I could have helped the guys from getting their hearts broke. I hate seeing some one feeling they might have found some one and its not real.

These professional scammers use scripts and together we can keep people from getting hurt. I personally would rather find some one that is real and I can usually tell with in the first couple emails, I haven't found real yet but I am looking. I wish the love of our lives to everyone.
SB

Posted by: Jerico

Quote:

Until you have made your first trip to the FSU you haven't lived anyway. Once you are seriously involved it takes all your free time and you don't have any time left for playing games.

Amen Brother. Dont I know it. Hell i am still paying from 3 years ago, LOL.
It was worth it to me though. i would do it again in a second. No regrets,.
Jerry

Posted by: tovarish

The best advice you have already heard here lots of times .. just drop it and focus your efforts on something more worthwhile.

However, Im not that type of person

I still get scam emails sent to me even tho I haven't been on any dating sites for over a year-and-a-half. I reply to them with a fake email and name. I always send them just one line of text, and they send me pages of bull****. I can literally say anything like "the sun was shining in New York today" and they will send back their fake life story and say they want to visit me, all the while knowing absolutely nothing about me

So I let them ask me my city, and then inevitably they 'take a train to Moscow' and ask for a plane fare via western union. I tell them maybe, so then they make the big mistake of sending me their full name, apartment address and an image of a fake passport that I can later submit to the FBI.

The next email I write I say I really don't trust Western Union, is there any other way? They will suggest MoneyGram, but I say I don't trust that either. I then say ok, I will send you the cash via DHL to the address provided 'because I really want to meet you', and this gets them to confirm their address.

Then I say, on second thought, Im not allowed to send cash via courier, but a friend of mine at work, his wife is Russian. And her father, Dmitry, is a police officer (ex-FSB) in Moscow. I will get my friend to wire the cash to Dmitry in Moscow and he will visit you at your apartment in the next few days. you must be so happy I will see you soon

I never hear from them again after that.

So now I have their name, address, and evidence of a fake passport. I send all this info to http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/

Although to be honest, the filing of the complaint takes lots of time, and sometimes I'll just submit their emails in bulk to a blacklist site.

I don't have time to try and stop every scammer I come across .. just depends on how many beers Ive had on a Friday night

There will be some who don't agree with trying to stop scammers but each to their own.

Posted by: Turboguy

I don't know if this makes any sense or not BUT: I have been at this longer than most and hopefully my attempts are about to come to a successful conclusion.

When I started this search long ago (1996) I ran into scammer after scammer. I did not know anyone else in the process in those day and had to learn by trial and error. There was little internet when I started so it was catalogs and snail mail. They I discovered socials and tried three socials tours. More scammers than ever. For a year I dropped out. I was just so tired of getting my hopes up and then finding out that all a gal was interested in was how much she could get out of my wallet. I only got back into it by a fluke, running into one of the gals I had corresponded with and tried to meet in the snail mail days and found her to be exactly what I had hoped I could find. She ended up getting back with her husband but I decided if there was one good one, there must be more.

About that time I discovered my first forum and now could learn from the mistakes of others and not have to learn by making them myself. Once I knew a lot more about what I was doing and could tap a great resource like this I started meeting much more sincere women. If I ran into a scammer or serial dater I knew the signs and could end it quickly and painlessly.

In the end after one false start with my first fiancee who was honest as the day is long and very beautiful but a total whack job I have my current fiancee who is just totally wonderful. We are stick in a big hole in the visa process now but some century she will be here and it was all more than worth it. My advice to anyone is just read all you can here. Knowlege is power.

Posted by: Ellen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turboguy

About that time I discovered my first forum and now could learn from the mistakes of others and not have to learn by making them myself. Once I knew a lot more about what I was doing and could tap a great resource like this I started meeting much more sincere women. If I ran into a scammer or serial dater I knew the signs and could end it quickly and painlessly.

I presume you do accept an idea that such forum where people could learn about variouse types of "scammers" should exist for women as well Don;t you?

Posted by: Cheburashka

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovarish

Although to be honest, the filing of the complaint takes lots of time,...I don't have time to try and stop every scammer I come across .. just depends on how many beers Ive had on a Friday night.
There will be some who don't agree with trying to stop scammers but each to their own.

Yes, that is exactly what we are saying. Why invest your time in someone like that? The FBI could care less about hairy Ivan, and will do absolutely nothing.

My take on this: USE THAT TIME TO MAKE MYSELF A BETTER PERSON!!! Go to the gym, read a book, do charity work, etc. The time one spends in trying to stop a scammer can be invested in making himself a better catch to a real Russian lady.

Welcome to the forum Tovarish!

Posted by: scam buster

i would agree with you ellen and there is a site that covers both. I don't want to just throw up other forums but if you PM me I can give you the URL for that forum.

Posted by: Ellen

Quote:

Originally Posted by scam buster

i would agree with you ellen and there is a site that covers both. I don't want to just throw up other forums but if you PM me I can give you the URL for that forum.

Pm me and I'll give you a link to antidate like returning a favour

Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scambuster

Sorry guys don't take offense. I don't go out trying to find scammers like some of the people do. I have been trying to find some one to be with. I am a good looking guy with a lot to offer (i dont tell them that) but I have had so many women try to scam me its ridiculous. So, I play back with them and I have studied the smart way to do it. The main thing is the good guys (like me) that catch the dating scammers is not to screw with them so much, but to get as much info from them as possible so if you feel your being scammed you can google sections of their letter and find that your are indeed talking to a scammer. These people use scripts and we all need to help each other.

I have read here and on some other sites of people posting some of their ladies letters and no one was sure if it was a scam. Had I of found these forums and post back months ago when they were posted I could have helped the guys from getting their hearts broke. I hate seeing some one feeling they might have found some one and its not real.

These professional scammers use scripts and together we can keep people from getting hurt. I personally would rather find some one that is real and I can usually tell with in the first couple emails, I haven't found real yet but I am looking. I wish the love of our lives to everyone.
SB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tavarish

The best advice you have already heard here lots of times .. just drop it and focus your efforts on something more worthwhile.

However, Im not that type of person

I still get scam emails sent to me even tho I haven't been on any dating sites for over a year-and-a-half. I reply to them with a fake email and name. I always send them just one line of text, and they send me pages of bull****. I can literally say anything like "the sun was shining in New York today" and they will send back their fake life story and say they want to visit me, all the while knowing absolutely nothing about me

So I let them ask me my city, and then inevitably they 'take a train to Moscow' and ask for a plane fare via western union. I tell them maybe, so then they make the big mistake of sending me their full name, apartment address and an image of a fake passport that I can later submit to the FBI.

The next email I write I say I really don't trust Western Union, is there any other way? They will suggest MoneyGram, but I say I don't trust that either. I then say ok, I will send you the cash via DHL to the address provided 'because I really want to meet you', and this gets them to confirm their address.

Then I say, on second thought, Im not allowed to send cash via courier, but a friend of mine at work, his wife is Russian. And her father, Dmitry, is a police officer (ex-FSB) in Moscow. I will get my friend to wire the cash to Dmitry in Moscow and he will visit you at your apartment in the next few days. you must be so happy I will see you soon

I never hear from them again after that.

So now I have their name, address, and evidence of a fake passport. I send all this info to http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/

Although to be honest, the filing of the complaint takes lots of time, and sometimes I'll just submit their emails in bulk to a blacklist site.

I don't have time to try and stop every scammer I come across .. just depends on how many beers Ive had on a Friday night

There will be some who don't agree with trying to stop scammers but each to their own.

Can I just ask you guys, what on earth do you put in your profiles to attract all these scammers

I have been at this game a few years now and have never yet encountered one. After the 2nd or 3rd email if I am interested in them I always ask for a contact number then I call them. I have not had one refusal yet, but if I did run across a potential scammer I am sure this one simple request would resolve it for me.

and if they were I certainly wouldn't be bothered reporting them to IT3 or the FBI, I doubt they are really that interested in a hairy Yetti sitting in Uppa Volta who has no interest whatsoever in leaving there.

I am sure they have better things to do with their time?

It amazes me how much time and energy is wasted in the pursuit of scammers rather than a good women.

Posted by: ham

Quote:

Can I just ask you guys, what on earth do you put in your profiles to attract all these scammers I have been at this game a few years now and have never yet encountered one. After the 2nd or 3rd email if I am interested in them I always ask for a contact number then I call them. I have not had one refusal yet, but if I did run across a potential scammer I am sure this one simple request would resolve it for me. and if they were I certainly wouldn't be bothered reporting them to IT3 or the FBI, I doubt they are really that interested in a hairy Yetti sitting in Uppa Volta who has no interest whatsoever in leaving there. I am sure they have better things to do with their time? It amazes me how much time and energy is wasted in the pursuit of scammers rather than a good women.

after i got scammed in 1999, once posted a profile on a then free, FSU-oriented dating site.
I still distinctively recollect i was literally FLOODED by interest notices & messages, including all scam schemes known to man, from the "virgin wanting to save herself for me (at 25yo )" to the beauty pageant 18yo, to that who claimed her grandfather had given her blessings...
What was my profile like?
Very bland, the usual i'm this old, this tall, i love this and work as that.

Posted by: Cheburashka

Scammers never seem to bother me. Maybe it is because I put this pic in my profile:

Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham

So Ham you saying it is because they are on FREE sites, then why the hell don't they pay to go on a good site instead of wasting all their time on the free ones.

Logically, if you can't afford to put your profile on a good legitimate site, you certainly can't afford to be pursuing women half way round the world either with what that all costs

Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Scammers never seem to bother me. Maybe it is because I put this pic in my profile:

Ahhhh Cheb, we love ya! there is even a women out there for those guys somewhere

Posted by: ham

Quote:

Logically, if you can't afford to put your profile on a good legitimate site, you certainly can't afford to be pursuing women half way round the world either with what that all costs

which is just silly.
I have used many premium dating services, including match-com, 2ofakind-com, reseau-contact-com and others.
I have published ads in FSU newspapers ( they won't do that for free ).
I have travelled to the FSU a few times and hired dating dealers ( no free rides, either ).
When in the FSU i have lodged in "luxury" hotels like http://www.holidaytoursweb.com/inde...ge,stpetersburg
But you are assuming i am some broke bum or something...good job, Sherlock.

Posted by: Chrismc

Ham

I am not having a go at you at all, it was all directed at the others upthread, I was asking you a question that is all, that question being "are you saying it is because they are on FREE sites" Note I said then why the hell don't they pay to go etc etc Not you!

Posted by: ham

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrismc

Ham

I am not having a go at you at all, it was all directed at the others upthread, I was asking you a question that is all, that question being "are you saying it is because they are on FREE sites" Note I said then why the hell don't they pay to go etc etc Not you!

ok, i had (mis)understood otherwise, then.

well, while free sites tend (as originally intended) to attract more dubious charachters, my (however limited ) experience confirms pay sites have their fat share of conpeople. Not as big overall as free dating sites do, but surely a good ratio of "gray charachters" and complete nutcases as well. I still remember how a (supposed) canadian girl introduced herself as over match-com: she said that judging by the free drinks men offered her, she had to be very pretty.
My instant thought was:...very pretty or a stripper or a shooter-girl.
Needless to say i never got any picture, and when s-he realized i was smarter than that and had taken notice of "her" incongruence, s-he disappeared. Another advertised as a woman. At some point it turned out to be a man, but s-he never admitted it (a transgendered individual? Boh... ).

Posted by: tovarish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrismc

Can I just ask you guys, what on earth do you put in your profiles to attract all these scammers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrismc

It amazes me how much time and energy is wasted in the pursuit of scammers rather than a good women.

I think watching TV is a complete waste of time yet I know heaps of people who do it. I hardly watch any myself! The choices we make to spend our free time shouldn't really be judged by anyone but ourselves.

And I guess the reason I sometimes try to bust scammers, or at least make them feel a bit more anxious about what they are doing.... well I don't know

Maybe some of us have a hidden cop inside of us

who knows?!

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrismc

But free sites have the most women ... maybe? The girl I'm currently seeing is from a free site. A scammer, I don't think so but maybe.

Yes I've received e-mail from much younger women on this site and they are probably scammers but I don't answer them.

Good luck all with your search ... don't give up!

Posted by: ira156

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham

why are you moving the target and assuming too much?
1 you wondered what do men put in their profiles to attract scammers
2 i mentioned i once posted a bland profile on a free dating site and was flooded by questionable replies along various known scam patterns
3 so my answer to your question is: i have no idea. I suppose scammers either mass-mail men or pick whom they think is the biggest sucker.

You move the target

and now you seem to be discussing my financial situation...

which is just silly.
I have used many premium dating services, including match-com, 2ofakind-com, reseau-contact-com and others.
I have published ads in FSU newspapers ( they won't do that for free ).
I have travelled to the FSU a few times and hired dating dealers ( no free rides, either ).
When in the FSU i have lodged in "luxury" hotels like http://www.holidaytoursweb.com/inde...ge,stpetersburg
But you are assuming i am some broke bum or something...good job, Sherlock.

Surely not all of the women you have met from these various sites...papers...tours were scammers Ham.

Its like swimming at the beach....if someone is going to swim at a beach that has shark warning signs up....your chances are higher to be eaten than a "safe" patrolled beach. Doesnt mean you cant swim there and not be eaten....doesnt mean swimming at the safe one will guarantee you wont be....just that the odds will be either more in your favour or they wont be.....depending on your choice. Or you just dont swim at all.

Its like that idiot in the UK recently that got scammed for a second time For 16,000 pounds or dollars. He had got scammed for thousands only months before.......was warned by his friends and family...then did it all again.

It wouldnt matter how many times You Me or anyone else tried to warn this type of guy....hes an idiot and was always there to be ripped off.

He ignores the shark warning signs....swims in the infested waters...gets bitten........his friends and family are screaming at him to go to the safe beach......but he goes back and gets bitten again....then the fear mongers scream that its not safe to swim anywhere.

Just remember you can also drown in your backyard pool.

Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovarish

Hi Chris,

I had my profile on match.com and faceparty, I think that's where the majority of my scammers came from. Ive never had a problem with the free russian dating sites and have met some great women that way.

I think watching TV is a complete waste of time yet I know heaps of people who do it. I hardly watch any myself! The choices we make to spend our free time shouldn't really be judged by anyone but ourselves.

And I guess the reason I sometimes try to bust scammers, or at least make them feel a bit more anxious about what they are doing.... well I don't know

Maybe some of us have a hidden cop inside of us

who knows?!

Ok thanks Tovarish for explaining things a bit more. My advice would be to use a site like Elenas Models or 1st International that allows you to buy the ladies contact details directly, no middle men and although they are not scam proof, they have very few problems compared to many other sites.

Posted by: ham

Quote:

Surely not all of the women you have met from these various sites...papers...tours were scammers Ham.

Quote:

Its like that idiot in the UK recently that got scammed for a second time For 16,000 pounds or dollars. He had got scammed for thousands only months before.......was warned by his friends and family...then did it all again.

There is NO "wise way" of getting scammed or swindled.
Con or fraud schemes coming one's way are most times very transparent.
When i was scammed, i was a stupid person doing a stupid thing; i was in poor psychological shape and although i had her checked & met in person, it was of no help.

Quote:

but he goes back and gets bitten again....then the fear mongers scream that its not safe to swim anywhere.

There are fear mongers, but idiocy mongers as well.
How many times around these forums one hears the patronizing tirade that only because s-he asks for money, it hasn't to be a scam? That probably s-he might just be a cinderella having none but her internet romeo ( met eight days earlier ) to turn to to "save her honor", or her daddy who is in bad need of medication or...?
Well, the man who " goes back and gets bitten again" is very likely a man who believes in the above explanations, or any twist on that line of thought.
I tend to apply the "parsimony principle" and go for the most likely explanation, namely that requests for money mean scam.
One in a million i might go wrong and miss a wonderful woman, but god knows how many i'm missing already because of poorly lit pictures or profiles cut three lines too short by agencies.
The above quotes just prove my point...these men are very likely chasing a delusion or fantasy of their own, however most of them probably believe soothing explanations put forward by idiocy mongers.
Those forewarning them are seen as "envious, bitter losers" (as if anybody really cared whether Pedro, Barney, Leroy or Wong go bankrupt...) and all they can see are the few cases of men claiming over the internet they sent huge amounts of money, put their women on an annuity for months, yet such women were real&honest and they are living happy ever after.
Once they are taken for a ride, everyone reminds them of their silly mistakes, and finger points the forest they couldn't see because of the trees.

Posted by: Turboguy

Well, I have been at this a little longer than most. I have made more trips than most and have been scammed more times than most.

I am not saying it makes me more of an expert than most. Perhaps I am saying I it makes me a little more stupid than most but it does give me a lot of experience to draw on.

First thing. It is important that we deal in probablilites. A gal who writes you on Match.com, has a visa and the money to travel and send beautiful photos and tenderly written but general letters of undieing love has a 9.99999 % chance of being a scammer.

A woman you must pay $ 8.00 a letter to write has a high risk that the real gal does not even know you exist. It is too much of a money machine to not tempt the sharks.

Women at big agency socials are more likely to be scammers because the scammers know that many of the men there are uninformed newbies who have read all the agency hype and are really ripe for the picking.

Women at free sights are also more likely to be scammers because they know free sites are often a trial thing for guys who are less educated about the processes and dangers. Yes, most of the gals are not but the percentage will be higher.

Find good agencies that either let you buy the contact information or will let you acqurire it quickly in the process and don't waste time with ones that won't.

Yes, the women we write will have life crisises just like anyone. They will have teeth problems, health problems, problems affording internet or transaltions, family problems. More of these gals however are looking for a sucker. The smart thing is to remember that until you have starred into her eyes and made that trip to meet her you are just penpals and her problems need to remain her problems. The best way to avoid these scams is never send money to someone you have not met. Never, Never Never.

When you make that trip, you are there to meet her, to get to know her, to see if there is a potential for a life together. You are not Santa. If her idea of getting to know you is parading you through the shops letting you show your interest by buying her $ 400.00 boots and expensive cell phones dump the gal. No mater how pretty she is or how low cut her dress is, dump her. Always have a backup plan and use it in those cases.

Posted by: ira156

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham

in fact i never typed the word "all". I only made reference to one curious experience of mine. That one profile i placed attracted a row of dubious replies featuring all scam schemes known to man. How or why, i'll never know.

if i were to bet, pay sites ( at least my experience long ago ) tend to have more "nutcases" and "gray charachters" than outright scammers. Perhaps because outright scammers could be banned and loose their money, while being a gray charachter or a nutcase isn't a crime.

There is NO "wise way" of getting scammed or swindled.
Con or fraud schemes coming one's way are most times very transparent.
When i was scammed, i was a stupid person doing a stupid thing; i was in poor psychological shape and although i had her checked & met in person, it was of no help.

There are fear mongers, but idiocy mongers as well.
How many times around these forums one hears the patronizing tirade that only because s-he asks for money, it hasn't to be a scam? That probably s-he might just be a cinderella having none but her internet romeo ( met eight days earlier ) to turn to to "save her honor", or her daddy who is in bad need of medication or...?
Well, the man who " goes back and gets bitten again" is very likely a man who believes in the above explanations, or any twist on that line of thought.
I tend to apply the "parsimony principle" and go for the most likely explanation, namely that requests for money mean scam.
One in a million i might go wrong and miss a wonderful woman, but god knows how many i'm missing already because of poorly lit pictures or profiles cut three lines too short by agencies.
The above quotes just prove my point...these men are very likely chasing a delusion or fantasy of their own, however most of them probably believe soothing explanations put forward by idiocy mongers.
Those forewarning them are seen as "envious, bitter losers" (as if anybody really cared whether Pedro, Barney, Leroy or Wong go bankrupt...) and all they can see are the few cases of men claiming over the internet they sent huge amounts of money, put their women on an annuity for months, yet such women were real&honest and they are living happy ever after.
Once they are taken for a ride, everyone reminds them of their silly mistakes, and finger points the forest they couldn't see because of the trees.

Ham most of what you say here is spot on. But i dont think anyone who sends money to "save her honour" "fix Mums bad heart ect" has read the numerous warning....either that or they are an idiot anyway.

I got scammed...only for a hundred on flowers...so maybe not so much a scam as an insurance policy. I made a consious decision NOT to send money to Nat. I have sent money for her to buy train tickets for me winter clothes ect.....but always things for me. She got along fine before i got on the scene.

There are guys that will send money after they have been in a relationship for a while....thats their decision...maybe for phones to contact...internet expences ect....but that is also to benifit them aswell as the lady.

All of your critics and yes im the biggest and will include myself say...NEVER SEND MONEY. You cant make it any plainer than that. All of us have if not been scammed we have at least had it attempted...so we agree with a lot of what you say. Its just that it comes across as a personal crusade and the message gets lost.

You say above "as if we care whether leroy ect ect goes bankrupt". You are the person i have seen the most consistantly say that you dont know us we are just words on a screen and you never will know us. You also dont know leroy ect and will never meet them either.

Answering your question about the amount of scams attempted on a site you profiled on. Maybe it was just the site...i dont know. From experience i went on 2 EM's and Russian brides.......i quickly dumped RB's as i found the sex tours they advertised sleazy and decided to avoid it. I never got an attempted scam from EM's the one scammer i did get was from RB's...but i also noticed that the continuing enquirys i got from 18-25yr olds ( when i clearly stated in my profile 33-40) were again from RB's.

If someone new came on here and read a member posting that there are hardly any scammers and that the guys that post that are just bitter because some woman had knocked them back.....or on the other hand that almost all of these women are scammers and that the guys that post being happy are just delusional........that newbie can read many stories here that to some extent back up both sides of the argument....thus proving that neither is true.

Ham i have said it before and i will say it again ...you have some good information to give....its just the way its given. I have seen in the past where you answer the argument that there are guys here that have been happily married for a few years...and you say well we will see in 10yrs or 20.

The trouble is many of the men here and women also involved in this endeavour....want to be happpy now ...not wait 20 yrs to see if marriage a b or c works out.

Its a case of sorry but shoot the messenger ( not because of the message ) because hes riding in on an elephant and leveling the village.

It seems to me ( only a personal opinion) that in trying to convince those that dont need help you are alienating those that can benifit from you advice. Cheers

Posted by: ham

Quote:

Its just that it comes across as a personal crusade and the message gets lost.

Quote:

t seems to me ( only a personal opinion) that in trying to convince those that dont need help you are alienating those that can benifit from you advice.

You need help.
Get is as soon as possible.
You can't possibly talk about anything without debating me as an individual.
So, who's on a crusade?
Come on, please drop the act and leave me alone...otherwise don't complain if at some point i tell you straight what i think of you, ok?
You need help, otherwise you wouldn't be obsessed with an individual over the internet.
You even pride yourself in being the most vocal critic OF THE PERSONALITY AN INDIVIDUAL OVER THE INTERNET!

As far as the core goes, i pity that when i was scammed there was no awareness. Most scams were light years beyond me; i was clueless. I want to raise awareness.
Do men ignore me or whatever i say for whatever reason?
Fine.
As you say, there will always be the idiot going back to be bitten again.
And i won't be bearing the consequences, so be my guests.

As well, i never said "all men claiming to be happy are delusional", but recently here a drama unfolded while a "success story" turned into a blatant insuccess...that happens often, and most just finger pointed LATER the many details the person had ignored, etc. Yet unlike you, i don't care about discussing individuals as much as generalities, where the fictitious stereotypes of Barney, Leroy, Pedro & Wong come from.

Posted by: ira156

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham

Once again Ham you take my entire post and pick the 2 negative things i have said about you and ignore the positive ones....fair enough Mate. Good Luck

PS As you say there are no "individuals" here we are all just words on a screen.

Posted by: ham

Quote:

PS As you say there are no "individuals" here we are all just words on a screen.

it doesn't matter to anyone, whether i be young or old, male or female, indian or chinese, and i don't make claims about myself, nor trust others' claims.
However, leave me alone and ponder why you need to always turn anything into some bogus theraphy session or personality debate questioning my charachter.
Hardly the persona you want to appear as happy and carefree.
I can say: i love wine
And you can say: i don't love wine
But you need to add: ...and people LIKE YOU...
come on...drop the act.
I don't exactly mind that game, but if i reply accordingly, you bet someone's going to land from Jupiter and be outraged "ooh! Personal attacks! Ham you are so nasty! Ooh! ".
So please just drop this, ok?

Posted by: Longfellow

Quote:

Originally Posted by LookingfromMO

"You will allow me to name you BELOVED Alan? I also would want, that you named me BELOVED Elana!

I know her sister! Such good girls they are!
I had a lot of fun with 'her'... after I discovered the scam. Magic wrong words in their template and the use of The Bat! software from a place that wouldn't require it are key flags. Always look at email headers.
See my post that outed her name and face of the month at this link.

Posted by: GentleGiant

I agree with Longfellow; email headers (and DNS look up), are a good place to start with checking out the new love of your life, so is an alternative email address you can use to approach her under a different name.
That last one saved me some money !!! I had a girl who didn't sound quite right but who wasn't using the standard "scam" letters.
A quick dns look up showed her emails coming from New Jersey not Kazan, and writing to her as a different person got me a complete set of duplicate emails to the set I already had, but in my "new" name.

Posted by: Longfellow

Quote:

Originally Posted by GentleGiant

...writing to her as a different person got me a complete set of duplicate emails to the set I already had, but in my "new" name.

That is great advice, GG. So elegant in it's simplicity and so effective. Yuri had his dream made that there was another space in the email he didn't need to work to fill.
Bravo!