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Bank cards
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Posted by: so cal rick

Hello group, I have obtained a bank account in my name and received bank card (ATM). Have sent such to fiance in Ekaterinburg Russia, along with code.

Notified bank that there would be activity from Russia, so as not to be alarmed.

My question is does any one see any problems from this?

I did this to bypass western union and their fee.

Bank stated that other person using card is not their concern as long as other person has my concent.

Fiance has tried to use card to inquire about balance, but she says that bank machine asks how much she wants to withdrawl, I told her to enter code number and menu would appear to select her transaction.

Anybody try this, I don't see any problems, I know there is limit to amount of withdrawl, but this should never be approached.

appreciate feedback on simular situation

Note card has no overdraft, so only cash in account is available

So Cal Rick

Posted by: Chrismc

Cal

You may have to explain to her what Withdrawel means, when I was with Iryna she had a UK bank card that I told her she could use in Ukraine, I used mine there no problem, but although she spoke and read good English she had no idea how to use the ATM as she did not know the terminology. Once explained to her she was OK.

Chris

Posted by: Texas Proud

No problem with the card being used by someone else.... but that bank is wrong in letting anybody else using it... if you allow someone on the terrorist list to use it you are in trouble... and they are supposed to report if they find out.. not likely she is one and not likely they would find out...

Also, most overseas banks can not find out your balance.. I have used mine in many countries and NONE could give me my balance, including the UK where I lived for a year... they just allow you to withdraw a certain amount and 'trust' that you have the money in your account.. so your bank is taking a chance... so I would get an overdraft, or at least ask your GF to let you know if she plans on using the card so you can deposit some if the amount is low...

Posted by: metaforest

I had a major misunderstanding in leaving my RW a bank card. Make DAMN sure she understands the protocol that you agree on for handling this.

Legally speaking the bank cannot interfere with your choice in who you allow to use the card, or where it is used, they will hold the named owner of the account liable for any such use of the card, and will report suspicious use to the authorities.

Overdraft is a serious financial risk if a mistake is made!

From my recent experiences in giving someone a card exposed an interesting legal issue: giving someone a card and associated PIN is NOT an authorization to withdraw funds! Any one who has ever been issued a Company business credit card or has been given access to other such assets has a mechanism in place to track what is authorized, and for how much. The bank has to honor such an arrangement if it is reasonable.

Proving you had a more complex intention than "Cart Blanc" can be difficult to prove to the bank's satisfaction. Keep this in mind if something goes wrong. The bank may may eat the loss, and drop the overdraft if you can show you did not explicitly authorize a transaction.

In my case the bank is looking into the matter, and if nothing else I have bought myself some time before they demand payment for the overdrafts.... I also chose to have the card deactivated...

Your Milage May Vary!

=B-)

Posted by: so cal rick

Real nice, I now understand why my girl was unable to obtain balance info, well we can use plain ole pen and papper, I will keep her informed of balance and track with drawls from website.

This method will still be better than western union.

as far as my future wife on bad guy list,
I believe if corrupt government wants your hide they will get your hide, truth be damned.
That being said, I fear not but trust in the Lord.
If my girl is bad guy then I am bill clinton

again thanks for good feedback
So Cal Rick

Posted by: Cheburashka

Not only is it brilliant, but it is the only way I get money over there now. No more "missing money" from banks. The Russian mafia can kiss my a$$. Thank you technology for giving us honest guys a way to get money over to Russia and around the money grubbing hands of the Achilles heel of Russia.

Change your pin number often. In fact, change it right before they make a withdrawl and call them on a cell with the pin. You can do it online. And make sure they are wise about taking money in large amounts out of the ATM (be alone, hide the card, etc). Make sure that you open an account just for those transactions, and only have just a little more in that account than you want withdrawn. I'll open an account for an orphanage, and give the director the pin number. I'll deposit the funds I want them to have, and only that amount. They can call you back when they have the money. Ochin Xorasho!

No more getting screwed by bank employees who "just can't seem to find the money deposited, but they'll research it"!

Posted by: so cal rick

metal forest,
I have no overdraft, bank should not give out money from account if there is none in account

So cal rick

Posted by: so cal rick

Cheburashka,
geez, I do not think i will allow this a chance to get out of hand, maybe keep only three hundred dollars in account and have her w/d maybe 280 and leave 20 in acct.

that way all i can loose at any one time is $300

if someone hacks, robs , loots for thousnads, i'll be damned if i will be libal

My girl is honest and trustworthy, so she is least of my worry, and most Criminals can get is $300

Thanks for replies
So Cal Rick

Posted by: metaforest

Quote:

Originally Posted by so cal rick

metal forest,
I have no overdraft, bank should not give out money from account if there is none in account

So cal rick

That's what the local branch manager told me!!! Don't you believe it!!!
If someone starts pulling small amounts and forces an overdraft they will get the money, and you will get dinged for the overdraft/returned item every time they hit the account!!

If someone tries to pull out an amount that is only a few % over the balance, or repeatedly hit's the account for small amounts it will take some time before the bank spots the overdraft and stops the flow of cash! That's what happened to me... $-28.00 on 7 accesses to the account beyond the first two that pulled a total of $30.00:
$200.00 for 7 overdraft transactions!!

=B-)

Posted by: metaforest

On the issue of changing the PIN. My bank does not support this... Every bank I have dealt with requires the card to be present when changing the PIN...

My understanding is that PIN it is used to encode a unique secret stored on the card...
Providing the PIN allows the ATM to decode the secret which is then forwarded to the bank along with the card number and the transaction details.

=B-)

Posted by: waiting123

I bank with Citibank... and believe it or not there is a Citibank on almost every corner in most large cities in Russia.

I opended an account for my wife at Citibank and she went to the local office received a card, and I just move monies from my account to hers. No worry about charges for using the atm, she sees the balance when she makes withdrawls, and there is no currency conversion charge.

I have found this to be the best way for me to fund my wife's lifestyle....hmmmm... need her here so I can fund it better

Posted by: metaforest

Quote:

Originally Posted by waiting123

I bank with Citibank... and believe it or not there is a Citibank on almost every corner in most large cities in Russia.

I opended an account for my wife at Citibank and she went to the local office received a card, and I just move monies from my account to hers. No worry about charges for using the atm, she sees the balance when she makes withdrawls, and there is no currency conversion charge.

I have found this to be the best way for me to fund my wife's lifestyle....hmmmm... need her here so I can fund it better

didn't see any western banks in Chelyabinsk or Yekaterinburg. There were plenty of Bankomats that were compatible with my bank cards...

=B-)

Posted by: waiting123

Yes... sorry. I just looked at citibank.ru and they are only in Moscow and St. Peter... Damn... how can I be so lucky

Posted by: searcher

I gave my fiance a pre-paid card. When she needs money I add a certain amount to it as needed. (See: WiredPlastic.com and Rushcard.com)

This prevents large sums from being stolen, etc. This was especially good when her purse was stolen.

Also, be sure she understands that she is not to write the PIN number on the card or keep it anywhere near the card - It should be memorized!

Posted by: neil277

Hello.

I feel its a good idea

but how well do you know this lady, from my expeience when i sent Nataly money for her birthday she telephoned me and said thank you for the flowers and Champagne but for the money she could not accept and when i went to meet my future wife the money was still there waiting for me.

The only time Nataly had my bank card is when she returned to minsk because her 6 month visitor visa had expired and we went for a marriage visa so we could marry and to keep the cost down from money transaction and even when Nataly was in Minsk for 3 weeks waiting for visa she spent very little.

Its ok to send money but if something goes wrong the the man will shout scammer.

Regards.

Neil

Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:

Originally Posted by so cal rick

Cheburashka,
geez, I do not think i will allow this a chance to get out of hand, maybe keep only three hundred dollars in account and have her w/d maybe 280 and leave 20 in acct.

that way all i can loose at any one time is $300

if someone hacks, robs , loots for thousnads, i'll be damned if i will be libal

My girl is honest and trustworthy, so she is least of my worry, and most Criminals can get is $300

Thanks for replies
So Cal Rick

Cal what you have to realise is that using your card in Eastern Europe is not the same as using it at home. You draw cash at home the reconciliation on your account is instant, do this in the FSU it can take a few days to catch up, so there is always the chance of an overdrawn situation occuring even if you do not have an authorised OD in place.

Also my cards work in most banks over there, but in some they do not work at all. You may need to use the ATM's connected to the link network or at least the ones attached to main banks.

They can all have their peculiarities and that is why balances are not always available. What the guys say is correct, the ATM's can sometimes just assume that you have enough on deposit at least until they systems catch up with each other.

Posted by: neil277

Quote:

Originally Posted by so cal rick

Hello.

This i way to much money to send per month, i would not send this amount because just think how did your lady live before she met you, $300 per month is a lot of money to a Russian.

Birthdays, Christmas and special occasions, but don't give this amount every month it could bring trouble.

Regards.

Neil

Posted by: so cal rick

Thanks to all for answers, it helped, "T", my fiance, has come to conclusion that balance is unavailable, using my/her card therefore I will become bank.
I will give her balance periodically, and she will run a journal keeping track.

This will be a good task we can share together, and will continue to build our relationship.

To correct previous reply, no, no, I do not send $300 every month, I want approx $300 cash available to "T" for what may arise.
In past I would on accasion send funds throuugh Western Union, now I can bypass that and manage this direct.

I forsee no problem with overdraft, and the security issue, well "T" is smart woman, I don't think russian crooks can beat her!
She's no fool...... you think I'd marry a floosie???
are you trying to fool a Corleone??

Anyway I believe I got this handled and thanks for all who replied, feel free to continue replies.

So Cal Rick

Posted by: EasyTarget

As a person who has worked with the wonderful Visa corporation and ATM's let me share how you could get in to some overdraft problems.

Visa in their infinite wisdom changed their rules a few years back on US held bank cards. The change was that if the transaction was less then $20.00 that the merchant did not have to get a pre-note authorization to approve the transaction. The pre-note authorization means connection to Visa's computer network and receiving the authorization code.

The reason the rule was created, at the time most communications with Visa were done on slow analog modems.

The ATM networks saw the rule and they figured if it is good enough for Visa it is good enough for us.

So......
Most overseas banks will batch their foreign bank transactions together, reducing their transaction overhead fee, and process them overnight.

So if you are a dubious type of fellow and you steal a foreign ATM card you should then go to a numerous different banks and keep withdrawing $14.00. The local bank will not contact the US bank to make sure the funds are available and will allow the transactions to go through.
Do it enough times, like 40 or 50 times at a variety of banks and you can make some easy money. Almost impossible to get caught.

Posted by: AkMike

I did the same thing for Tanya before she came here. I told her how many 'hyrivna' I put into her card account and it was hers to use.
Recently her son has had some tough times and I sent a card to him the emailed the pin #. It beats the heck out of using the wire transfer companys after the card is there.
I've used my CC at ATM's there instead of carrying much cash thru customs or out on the street. No problems so far but I only use machines that are attached to a bank building and one that the locals are using.

Posted by: jeffs

Just to add my 2 cents worth...

I've been here over a month. I've had no problems getting money from my Bank of America ATM card or my other "regional" bank card. (Mastercard and Visa debit cards).

I will say the fees are high (upwards of $5 per withdrawl). On all occasions the money has come out of my account instantly (i.e. I've checked online afterwards). The fees generally take a day or so with bank of america.

just another observation...

Back when I was living on a "western budget" the nicer resteraunts and SOME stores take your visa debit card for payment just like in the states (western countries). Once you start your budget living forget "swiping" the card for all purchases.

Posted by: That1Guy

NetBank has a website where you can easily check the balance anytime. My mother-in-law has my NetBank card (which was stolen once with her handbag), but other than that, we have had zero problems.

Posted by: novotul

$300 a month is a lot of money in Russia, but let's keep some perspective here. $300 isn't what it was a couple years ago.

The rouble has appreciated about 15% against the dollar. So our dollars translate to fewer roubles.

My Russian friends, business associates, and fiance all talk about how severe inflation is getting there. The official rate of about 10% has seemed like a joke, and I didn't understand how the govt can provide a number like that until recently. The Russian government includes rather expensive, imported consumer products (televisions, telephone, computers, and the like) in their analog of the consumer price index. These prices are falling in real terms here, and they are falling in price in real terms there. Typical Russian consumers do not buy these kind of products very often, and apparently in order to delate the inflation rate, these products are over-represented in the Russian Federal inflation statistics.

Utility fees my fiance pays have increased in the past two years from about 100 roubles to over 2000. (Her mother's pension is less than 3000 roubles).

Recently, I went over several of my expense reports for business trips to Russia. I take frequent business trips there, stay in one place, in an apartment I maintain, in order to decrease expense costs. I keep all receipts -- well a very large fraction of them. Let's take water as a basic commodity. The water where she lives isn't very good, and everyone buys bottled water. A 5 liter jug of bottled water was 26 roubles in 2004 and, in April/May, it was it was 46 roubles. I saw similar inflation in the price of rice, cooking oil, and sugar. Loafs of black bred that were 4 roubles are now 6-7 roubles. Grocery spending has always constituted a large fraction of Russian household spending. I estimate the real rate of consumer inflation is presently close to 30%.

Wages are not increasing.

Russian governmental fiscal policy is very conservative. The Government's budget is consistently in surplus. They have a huge stabilization fund. Petroleum is high, going higher. There is no reason I see to forecast anything other than a stable or strengthening rouble, versus the dollar -- especially if the FED stops its current cycle of interest rate decreases and the US government continues with these huge tax cuts (for the weathy -- none of us see these tax cuts so they don't seem real, but they are) and huge spending on the war.

But there is also no reason to expect the real rate of Russian consumer inflation to moderate.

$300 isn't what it used to be. It buys what perhaps $200 did two years ago. Still quite a bit, but maybe not what you'd think by reading the archives of this and similar sites.

Let's keep these basic economic realities in mind -- and also keep in mind that a lot of Russian believe Americans are really "greedy". The word, as they mean it, is different from what an American might think. Greedy to them means that we pay very close attention to our money and have a tendency toward a certain lack of easy generosity -- or when we are generous we carefully monitor our generosity. Reflect carefully: does that shoe fit, and do you want it to fit? How do you want it to fit?